Spambot Discussion

[TheSorrow]

but what about the other moderators though? I saw the list of how many you guys are and remember that lousy bot that kept posting about some stupid shoe sale? how did it post that many so fast? I think its that panbr- thing.

...Let's be perfectly honest. How many times do you see me online? And now...how many times do you see ANY of the other Mods online?
Yeah, they're awesome members and even nice friends, they've all also done their amazing work for the forums as well, better than me i'd say, but, they have lives, and such lives are bit too busy and important to worry about deleting auto-generated spam messages >3> lol So, it's pretty much me and the admins the only ones to deal with the current spambot problem, and trust me, it's more than enough.
And "how did the spambot post that many so fast"? Easy, because any member can do it. Imagine that you have a text ready to be posted in any topic (let's say, a text you copied...doesn't matter if it's relevant to anything, we're talking about spam after all). Now, imagine posting it, wherever you wish. And now, with NOTHING ELSE TO DO (not like bots have "anything" to do), imagine making that post in any other topic. Imagine how fast you'd be able to post it, and for how long, assuming you're an "automated bot" with nothing else to do in your life but post. You'd at least be able to do one post per minute.
Remember something...the only difference between members and spambots is that members are "controlled" by a person behind a screen and a keyboard, while spambots are controlled by lines of coding. Other than that, they're all the same, they're all "Member Accounts". Anything you're able to do here, they have the potential to do it as well. If you can make tremendously fast posts, so can they. And in turn...if we do ANYTHING to restrict their ability of posting, we also restrict YOUR ability for posting...which is why it's better to simply have people to take care of the spam, rather than take measures to prevent; yes, we would get less spam, but we would affect all members as well, and it'd be very counter-productive.

Yes, it was panbr93, and it was an annoying one >3>, and yeah im not TheSorrow, im just saying what i think he thinks, and whoever is creating them they are gaining information, maybe at a point that will make something to the forums (I hope not) and i think the spambots that are without info are a prototype to the others that come with info and all, haven't you noticed yet? that when a spambot without information posts another one with information posts? they are like Nyx and Ryoji-Kun, Ryoji was the call over to Nyx, and then, when Nyx appeared he was Nyx, its the same here with the spambots, when a 'Stupid' Spambot posts, then i a while a spambot that it seems to be more intelligent posts, and posts with EVEN more information

While you have some good theories, you're overlooking certain facts, which leads to wrong assumptions, and you're giving spambots more praise and intelligence than they really have and deserve >3>
First of all, you're talking about spambots like if they are "new", or "recently learning", while in truth, they're OLD and have been THE VERY SAME WAY for YEARS. I can tell you that in 2009, we also had spambots posting alot of information, not just "stupid" ones, some which even QUOTED other posts, making it very hard to figure out which were bots and which were just random members. In truth, there is no trend between "smart" and "stupid" spambots...they come at random. There are "waves" of spambots, for example, if a certain spam post is made, you should expect other spam posts coming from other accounts (which is what you probably see as "a stupid one posts, an intelligent one comes later"), but that's related to the way they look for "forum targets" (ESPECIALLY if someone clicks on the links...yeah, it's bad since the page "records" from which site you came from, and sends even more spambots to that site),
And yes, spambots learn...however, by "learning", i don't mean they "look at us" and get all "Oooh they talk about .Hack, and hentai, and everyone hates AZURE-KITE, and shugo_lover is pretty, and TheSorrow is a BAMF" (they don't CARE, after all). Instead, they learn things such like "Oooh, if i reply "Yes" to this question, i can't post, so i'll reply "No" from now on" or "Oooh, they have a topic here with many views, so they'll see my post if i put it in here". That's what i mean by "learning"...they "learn to survive" and "learn to spread more", they don't "learn from us to prepare for an attack". Yes, we're one of the leading .Hack forums, but we're also a small forum that barely survives by donations, and only about 1% of the world population cares about .Hack, so yeah, if someone "smart enough" is going to attack a forum through means of bots and information-learning, it's NOT going to be a silly forum like us.
And no, spambots don't work the way you say it...it's SIMILAR, but not with that intention. I'll explain it to you with true examples and the true wave they behave; i won't involve coding though, just the overall logic in which they work.

You have 3 "bots", we'll call them "FindBot", "RegBot", and "SpamBot". You "activate" them. The three of them will be "working at once", however, RegBot and SpamBot will remain in "standby", doing no action, and in the beginning only FindBot will be working.
FindBot will access the internet, and "search" for any possible site as a target, very similar to how you would make a Google search. The search range and keywords might vary, but let's just say it looked for a "phpBB forum", and it found the site "dothackers.net/forums".
Once located, FindBot will send the network address to RegBot, who will then access the internet and enter the forums (and then FindBot will go to Standby or search for another target, most likely the latter). RegBot will then locate the Registration Form, and fill in the data. The data it'll input varies depending of how RegBot was coded, but for the most basic spambot, it'll insert a random name, and a random password identical to the name, random e-mail, no optional data, and any "forced" question will be replied with a "Yes".
And now, once registered, RegBot will finish its function, and SpamBot will now access the internet and the forum (now under RegBot's registered account). And then SpamBot will search for any possible location where it can create a new Topic, fill in the required data, such like Subject and Message Body with whatever information it was programmed to, make the post, and repeat the action as many times it was programmed to, or until its stopped by a board security function...or until it has to go somewhere else.

And that's how the most basic "Spambot" works. Yes, the "more intelligent" ones that even give themselves Avatars and Quote posts require far more "bots" and a much more complex coding, and as well, the more security a board has (e-mail confirmation, CAPTCHA, etc), the more bots will be needed to act to make a single post. And usually Spambots have a function which allows them to "be here" and in "30 other forums" at the same time, registering and posting in all of them at the very same second. But yeah, that's overall the way they work...we only "see" one of them (the spambot that makes the post), but, there were other bots before (and even after it) that worked together to make the post. An army of bots, spreading advertising throughout the forums...and also makes a good project for a Java/Perl/PHP class. lol

[Altre]

So I'm imagining bots as unicellular organisms striving to survive and advance by working in unison. In my mind, they're cute little bits of code in the shape of an amoeba. Eventually, they'll have communities and a shaman.

[TheSorrow]

So I'm imagining bots as unicellular organisms striving to survive and advance by working in unison. In my mind, they're cute little bits of code in the shape of an amoeba. Eventually, they'll have communities and a shaman.

...They already do O-O; lol

As a programmer, it's hard to "imagine" them, since i can "see" them and "know" how they are...just pieces of data being sent in packages all over the internet, coming from a non-human-input source, but an automatized one.
However, remember the anchovies in Spongebob? I like imagining them as such...as thousands of random little mindless things, wreaking havoc all over the forums. Some in here, some over there, some in that place far over there, some get smacked, some get lost, some help others, some KILL others (not only it's possible for another spambot to "block" the functions of one, but there ALSO anti-spambots whose function is to "hunt them down" and prevent or stop their whole execution, and they're also considered "bots")...but overall a never-stopping stream of little noisy anchovy-shaped bots.

[Ratsu.V2]

Good god there are so many spambots posting that I wouldn't be surprised if it were really a person doing it. (lawl AT trolling us that would be funny ) I thought forums had an anti spambot thing?

[shugo_lover]

Good god there are so many spambots posting that I wouldn't be surprised if it were really a person doing it. (lawl AT trolling us that would be funny ) I thought forums had an anti spambot thing?

Lol that would be hilarious

[Kaori]

Good god there are so many spambots posting that I wouldn't be surprised if it were really a person doing it. (lawl AT trolling us that would be funny ) I thought forums had an anti spambot thing?

They do but the thing is the form of security is simple enough for a bot to overcome, I think the "are you a spambot?" question should be typed instead of using those 2 choices, bots cant read.

[Master ZED]

Good god there are so many spambots posting that I wouldn't be surprised if it were really a person doing it. (lawl AT trolling us that would be funny ) I thought forums had an anti spambot thing?

Being human would explain the surge that's been happening all year so far:

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb ... t&p=192021

IOW, your funny idea is probably what's really going on.

[TheSorrow]

Good god there are so many spambots posting that I wouldn't be surprised if it were really a person doing it. (lawl AT trolling us that would be funny :P ) I thought forums had an anti spambot thing?

Being human would explain the surge that's been happening all year so far:

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb ... t&p=192021

IOW, your funny idea is probably what's really going on.

Wow...Human Spambots? Low-resource people who are put in front of a computer with internet access, and are told to just register into forums and post information without knowing or even caring about the contents of such information? I once considered such idea, but didn't think that some people would actually pay others just to spam forums like that. But if it's true...then yeah, it would explain why these "bots" get through all the CAPTCHA and questions so easily, and why they aren't stopped like most other bots...they aren't bots, they are HUMAN MEMBERS (who only come to spam and stuff).
But in such case...How could it be possible to stop/prevent their registering and spamming, without affecting all other members as well? In that topic you posted they suggested an image CAPTCHA, especifically one related to a videogame series. However, a good amount of the members who have registered in here don't actually know the .Hack series much, some might not even know who Kite is, so adding a .Hack "CAPTCHA" would prevent these members from registering as well. And adding a "simple image" won't work, like "Flowers", "Sea", or something, as i really think that these "human spambots" will be able to answer them properly with ease :/

[TheEnigma]

I was thinking that when new members register, they are brought to the Introduce yourrslef thread and made to post something about themselves before actually being able to make their own threads or browse the forums. That way if a spambot does make it to that point they would just post some spam message in that topic, a Mod could erase the message, and then that member can be banned or deleted or whatever. Idk its just an idea but I dont know how you could get it so that you are prompted to post in that thread.

[TheSorrow]

I was thinking that when new members register, they are brought to the Introduce yourrslef thread and made to post something about themselves before actually being able to make their own threads or browse the forums. That way if a spambot does make it to that point they would just post some spam message in that topic, a Mod could erase the message, and then that member can be banned or deleted or whatever. Idk its just an idea but I dont know how you could get it so that you are prompted to post in that thread.

At first, it sounds like a great idea...however after further thinking, it won't do anything to stop the spamming (human or bot)...it'd just redirect it to a topic where it might be more conflictive to deal with D: It's possible to redirect users to a forum or topic right after registering and prompting them to post in it, i've seen it in other forums...but let's see how it'll go:

A spambot (or "human bot") registers in here, bypasses the CAPTCHA and etcz and is allowed to post. The spambot will be forced to post in the Introduce Yourself topic. And of course, they'll make their spam posts. However, what if 5 spambots register, or if the same spambot prefers to post in that topic? Then the Introduce Yourself topic will be FULL of ALL the spam, completely ruining the topic until a Mod comes and "cleans it". But what if an ACTUAL members posts their introduction? Their post might be lost in the spamming rampage going on, and they'll find it much more annoying than if the spam was instead spread in random single topics. Deleting the spam posts in the topic will be much more difficult than simply deleting a whole topic, or at least, more time consuming (with a topic a Mod can easily select a Delete option and the topic goes poof)...and it'll be even HARDER to deal with if members make posts related to the spam posts. Again, it'll pretty much ruin the whole topic.

Based on your idea, we could make it so that everyone is "forced" to post in the Introduce Yourself topic, yes...but the post MUST be approved by the Mods first. And then a Mod could easily see all the posts needing approval, delete the ones that are spam, and allow the real introduction posts to be posted. However, for that to work properly, we'll need a better Mod activeness than we're having right now, else days might pass with a member not having their post approved and them trying to post again, or elsewhere, or simply leave in the worst case. And, if we have an enough Mod activeness to approve/disapprove posts quickly, then we could easily leave it so that Mods simply delete the spam topics, without having to go through a "forced post" method that could be very annoying to members.

[AZURE-KITE]

Or we could simply make a new topic, and force all the members to post there before introducing themselves, and the members that are NOT spambots could tell things that are like: hi im new, im going to introduce myself:D, and the ACTUAL spambots post random stuff advertising things, and a Mod could simply delete the post and ban the user...

[Ratsu.V2]

Long story short there is nothing we can do really, I mean look at other BIG forums every 2-3 posts is a spambot ad, all you can do is report it and hope a mod data drains it. Otherwise it would take either a huge task force of mods (like all current members that log on daily to be mods.) or a huge system that would more then likely be off putting to people. Though I am not against the use of people becoming mods, or at least assistance who can only delete topics and stuff like that to help out mods.

[TheEnigma]

Eh I figured it wouldnt really work I just wanted to see if my suggestion was at all possible. Oh well...

[d5t]

hahaha this is a hilarious discussion. Spambots, specifically commenting on a message board, website post, etc -- their sole purpose(s) is to promote a website and SEO optimization... so whatever website the bot is spewing out gets a bump up in Google search engine results (in the industry they call this Google juice, but this is by illicit ways). That's why you see a paragraph or two of unintelligble, incoherent stuff or just a list of keywords/hyperlinks. Google's indexing bots then pick up the spam post on dothackers' (but it's usually deleted within 12 hours so spammers lose!! hahaha) message board, does magic Google calculations that takes into account dothackers website traffic and Google page ranking, then propagates that into their page ranking algorithm somehow.

phpBB's (our message board software) captcha and anti-spam methodologies get cracked eventually by spammers, but it has been very good for a long time. Usually a new update plugs those holes. It literally takes three clicks to kill a spammer, so not a ton of man work!

[Ratsu.V2]

Well I know it takes alot to be a mod (like I think it had to do with real life information) but what about making assistance for the mods to do work like that? Wouldn't that help to lighten the load?

[d5t]

Well I know it takes alot to be a mod (like I think it had to do with real life information) but what about making assistance for the mods to do work like that? Wouldn't that help to lighten the load?

The way we run moderating is asking for volunteers and they can "moderate whenever they feel like it." Really relaxed. Mods are set to only have access to deleting posts/locking topics and other misc. items. It's always worked well and no need to change permissions.

[TheSorrow]

Dealing with members, their reports and their situations is honestly much more tiresome than simply dealing with random scripts making posts. lol Just saying >3>;

When it comes to spambots, i got it covered quite well. And after all, i am the Admins's "assistant" to deal with spambots and all...so, as good as it might seem at first sight, i don't think "an assistant of an assistant" would be a great idea. At least not just for dealing with little automatic bots...that honestly is much more easier and faster than one could think. lol
...
I must admit i sometimes find it annoying that i can only delete their posts though. It sure is entertaining and fills me up with logs, sometimes i even keep "records" of how long it has passed since the spam was posted to the time i deleted it...however, it gives me some trouble when a spambot is posting continuously and i can't do anything but delete their posts as fast as i can, not even "suspend" them or something. Turns more annoying too when members PM me all "OMG STOP THE SPAMBOT!" and i have to explain them why i can't do it D: At least sometimes i'm fast enough that members only get to see 2 out of 10 spam posts. lol

[Erranty]

Yeah. You do need some kind of temporary suspension privilege. A 1 day suspension that marks them as bot, and having it notify d5t or Kuukai would work out pretty well.