Philosophy debate of Religion, and Science

[AuraTwilight]

The same amount of energy from billions of years ago is the same amount of energy now. The biggest questions is how we got here, and why? You can take the Religions views, or the science views. Us humans have every short lifespans. We got around 36500 days at most on average to live.

Energy and matter can never be created or destroyed. Therefore, the matter and energy composing the universe has always existed, but at some point, it formed an arrangement that we currently call the universe.

but looking at things from a science point of view how do we get here? How does life so from many single cell organisms, and evolve to what it is today?

Chemical reactions happen, wherein basic molecules string together to form proteins and acids that can reproduce themselves and make more of their kind. These become more and more complex, more and more efficient, and more and more sturdy, eventually creating the first living cells. This repeats the process as selective pressure destroys that which can't survive long enough to reproduce,and the most efficient and effective organisms slowly experience mutations, becoming more and more complex. After millions of years, we show up.

My view on both science and religion are both pretty much the same: it's just man's fear of the unknown.

That's not really a fair view of science: Science possesses predictive and self-correcting power that allows us to understand what was previously unknown and make utilization of the world around us, instead of being at it's mercy.

Religion, however, is just a fear-coping mechanism.

[wave killer]

My view on both science and religion are both pretty much the same: it's just man's fear of the unknown.

That's not really a fair view of science: Science possesses predictive and self-correcting power that allows us to understand what was previously unknown and make utilization of the world around us, instead of being at it's mercy.

Religion, however, is just a fear-coping mechanism.

Exactly. While different, science and religion both perform the same purpose: Religion created Gods that protects and guides humans from an unknown evil (God protects us from the devil, Thor protected earth from the Midgard Serpent, etc) and science studies unknown factors and teaches us to overcome them (like a new virus or something). Both just end up comforting the uneasy mind of a human being in a world where he understands little to nothing about.

I'm not saying science and religion are the same thing, just that they serve the same purpose.

But if life and reality have taught me anything it would be that nothing is absolute. Back in the day people believed the atom was the smallest building block of matter and now we got hundereds of particles that many say make everything we see or will see; or that parallel universes were just science ficiton and now M-Theory proposes that there may be not one but four different types of parallel universes. And then just recently the Catholic church announced that there may in fact be alien life out in the cosmos despite saying for years there wasn't.

I do believe there is a god, which god though I don't know, and I believe in things like the big bang. But don't expect me to pick a side any time soon over whose right or whose wrong.

[Azure Knight]

It's all ways to find answers. Because humans fear the unknown.

Someone once said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses." It's a way to find answers in this vast unknown we live in. Science and religion differ in the way of coming about those answers.

[AuraTwilight]

Exactly. While different, science and religion both perform the same purpose: Religion created Gods that protects and guides humans from an unknown evil (God protects us from the devil, Thor protected earth from the Midgard Serpent, etc) and science studies unknown factors and teaches us to overcome them (like a new virus or something). Both just end up comforting the uneasy mind of a human being in a world where he understands little to nothing about.

That's...not really the case. Comforting uneasy minds isn't what science is about, whatsoever, or we wouldn't of made most of the discoveries we did. For example, evolution is highly unsettling to a lot of people, but tough ****, says Science. Science is to cast light into the darkness of ignorance; religion merely rationalizes the darkness that's already there.

But if life and reality have taught me anything it would be that nothing is absolute. Back in the day people believed the atom was the smallest building block of matter and now we got hundereds of particles that many say make everything we see or will see; or that parallel universes were just science ficiton and now M-Theory proposes that there may be not one but four different types of parallel universes. And then just recently the Catholic church announced that there may in fact be alien life out in the cosmos despite saying for years there wasn't.

I do believe there is a god, which god though I don't know, and I believe in things like the big bang. But don't expect me to pick a side any time soon over whose right or whose wrong.

Religion and Science aren't incompatible or anything; it's only when the religious try and use their deities to outright defy scientific knowledge because it makes them uncomfortable. "Evolution is a lie, and the fossils were put there by the Devil, or by God to test us" is an actual argument I've heard.

Marth W-Master, a mod on this very forum and one of my best friends, is a devout Christian who has no problem accepting scientific theory. There's absolutely no reason for any scientific theory to say there is no God, as science doesn't really care about the issue one way or another; likewise, any deity that can't be reconciled with scientific thought isn't worth the worship, if you ask me.

Someone once said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses." It's a way to find answers in this vast unknown we live in. Science and religion differ in the way of coming about those answers.

That person was Karl Marx, and he's not exactly the best person to quote, as he considered religion one of the greatest evils of society.

[wave killer]

Karl Marx does have a point though in a small way; most people use religion nowadays to spread hatred in society instead of goodwill. I used to be Catholic before I became a Buddhist because I didn't want to be part of a religion of hatred or whose message was covered in hatred.

[zaseo]

It a lot to think about since there is evidence to support both. You can say the that whats predict in the bible is coming true, but you can also say something to counter that. No matter what way path you choose to think somethings in science, and religion would always go hand, and hand. It said that the first human bodies existed near Africa, or the Middle East. Evidence from both support this. Please answer this question for me. People who believe in God overall tend to have better lives, or have good things come their way vs people who don't. Would you say God has reward people for being good, or would you say it was the believe in a nonexistent God that is strong gave people the support to follow what is consider in general a good path in life? Personally I feel it is a a reward for trying to be good, and successful even after a life that was once in misery.

[Azure Knight]

Someone once said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses." It's a way to find answers in this vast unknown we live in. Science and religion differ in the way of coming about those answers.

That person was Karl Marx, and he's not exactly the best person to quote, as he considered religion one of the greatest evils of society.

Caught me. However, Marx was a sociologist, so he knew how society and the people in it worked. But you said it yourself, religion is a fear-coping mechanism, a way of answering questions and making people feel better about what they don't know.

People who believe in God overall tend to have better lives, or have good things come their way vs people who don't.

I don't think this is true. In my opinion, I don't think that the things I want will suddenly fall from the sky because I pray for them. I believe that I have to go out and make those things happen. However, there are many ideas in religious texts that can be a guide to living a good life. For example, many rules in the Judeochristian bible have shaped laws in places such as the United States. The idea of serving a sentence for a crime stems out of Judaism's idea of "an eye for an eye", meaning that anything bad that is done, lets say in this case, ripping out someones eye, deserves equal punishment for the person who commited the act, such as that same body part they damaged being damaged upon themselves. Although the idea is changed to a prison sentence, the general idea still fits. There are many other rules that have made their way into US law, I just don't feel the need to list them all.

[AuraTwilight]

Karl Marx does have a point though in a small way; most people use religion nowadays to spread hatred in society instead of goodwill.

"nowadays" is misleading. People have always used religion has vehicles of hatred and control. That's usually why people make new ones.

It a lot to think about since there is evidence to support both. You can say the that whats predict in the bible is coming true, but you can also say something to counter that.

There's no actual evidence for that; the brain is a pattern-making machine, and the prophecies of the Bible are so vague that, statistically, the wording can refer to almost any event. It's statistically inevitable that it'll come true enough of the prophecy is vague enough. Did you know that the Antichrist was originally interpreted to be Ottoman of the Roman Empire? The etymology of "666" comes from his name.

Please answer this question for me. People who believe in God overall tend to have better lives, or have good things come their way vs people who don't. Would you say God has reward people for being good, or would you say it was the believe in a nonexistent God that is strong gave people the support to follow what is consider in general a good path in life? Personally I feel it is a a reward for trying to be good, and successful even after a life that was once in misery.

There are happy atheists just like there are miserable believers. It's not really evidence for anything other than people with religious faith having something to fall back on, to feel like someone is looking out for them. It's a mental placebo effect that comes from within you, not from a higher power.

However, there are many ideas in religious texts that can be a guide to living a good life. For example, many rules in the Judeochristian bible have shaped laws in places such as the United States. The idea of serving a sentence for a crime stems out of Judaism's idea of "an eye for an eye", meaning that anything bad that is done, lets say in this case, ripping out someones eye, deserves equal punishment for the person who commited the act, such as that same body part they damaged being damaged upon themselves.

Not really. The rules of the Bible came out of basic ethical decency and common sense; We punish murderers, thieves, and so forth because they're screwing up society for everyone else. EVERYONE knows this is wrong without needing religion.

[S1lentOp]

It said that the first human bodies existed near Africa, or the Middle East.

I'm not exactly sure where in the Bible it mentions the Out Of Africa theory for human evolution, but you're welcome to show me where it is. Unless you believe in Old Earth Creationism, in which case you have more problems to contend with than the evolution-Genesis discrepancy, the belief that human ancestors migrated out of Africa seems to conflict with the six-day creationism Genesis myth.

Evidence from both support this. Please answer this question for me. People who believe in God overall tend to have better lives, or have good things come their way vs people who don't. Would you say God has reward people for being good, or would you say it was the believe in a nonexistent God that is strong gave people the support to follow what is consider in general a good path in life? Personally I feel it is a a reward for trying to be good, and successful even after a life that was once in misery.

I don't know where you get the idea that somehow believing in a god makes people happier on average or why this is at all relevant to the question of whether or not such a god exists. Even if it were true that theists were happier on average than nonbelievers, there would still be no reason to believe that it's because god is rewarding them that they are so happy.

[Takai Tenshi]

first off, i would like to thank AT for intelligent responses.

second, I would like to add my opinions.

satanists do not warship satan. (this is what i've heard/read) despite the name.
the universe is infinite. the entire sky would not be constantly bright because the stars are spread out.
god may/may not exist, but weather he does or not, adam and eve are a bunch of B.S.

nothing and no one just magically appeared on earth. it was a process which took hundreds of millions of years. we as humans did not evolve from "monkeys" but started out as those very first organisms. we may have branched out from an extinct species of primate that could've evolved into a number of apes and monkeys that are around today. the idea that if we evolved from monkeys then all the monkeys should be gone is completely B.S. my idea is of both and i don't think it is a WTF statement.


IF there is a god, I say that he may have put organisms on this earth and given them the power to adapt and change. over time, these changes began to happen evolution occured.


i had more points but I got into a convorsation with my cousin and forgot

[Mistral's_Man]

nothing and no one just magically appeared on earth. it was a process which took hundreds of millions of years. we as humans did not evolve from "monkeys" but started out as those very first organisms. we may have branched out from an extinct species of primate that could've evolved into a number of apes and monkeys that are around today. the idea that if we evolved from monkeys then all the monkeys should be gone is completely B.S. my idea is of both and i don't think it is a WTF statement.

A couple things...Everything is theory...speaking factually doesn't reflect well on you.
Nobody can prove where humanity originated from, (except perhaps AT...)
But you've clearly spoken against theories that I'm sure you didn't even know existed...
Simply by reproducing, humans seemingly ruled out "primate" genetic.
Which works more or less like this. If you've two people of different ethnicities who reproduce, the offspring will be half and half, then throughout the offspring's life...it can rule out one gene completely...Regardless...That's one of a million theories...
The monkies would not all be gone...The aboriginies are still around after all.

Satanists contrary to your belief...Worship Satan...adore him, admire him, you know. Whatever you want to call it. What you've been hearing/reading is wrong.

[AuraTwilight]

satanists do not warship satan. (this is what i've heard/read) despite the name.

Actually, that's only LaVeyian Satanists, who worship an allegorical Satan that represents the base, worldly self.

There's also, for example, Luciferianism, that worships Lucifer as a deity of light and knowledge, creator of man and the first rebel of justice and free will against a tyrannical dictator deity.

the universe is infinite. the entire sky would not be constantly bright because the stars are spread out.

Technically, no. There wasn't infinite time alloted for an infinitely expanding universe. However, it is virtually infinite as no matter how fast you go, and for how long, you will never reach the end, because the universe is expanding faster than you can traverse it. If the universe was infinitely large, it would have infinite time to have expanded, and thus an infinite amount of stars would've instantly filled the sky.

However, the universe would not have an "edge", because most likely it is recursively inbounded where, like the Earth, once you complete a trek around, you come back to where you were. In every direction.

[zaseo]

What do you think about the New World Order, and the Conspiracy Theories? When that time comes I picture an epic battle between Christ, and Satanic people. I wonder is it truth that the Holy Bible, and the Satanic Bible are the same stories, but from opposites from of view? I shall continue to do my own studying, and fine my own answers.

[AuraTwilight]

What do you think about the New World Order, and the Conspiracy Theories?

Total bullcrap created by fearmongers and insane people.

When that time comes I picture an epic battle between Christ, and Satanic people. I wonder is it truth that the Holy Bible, and the Satanic Bible are the same stories, but from opposites from of view? I shall continue to do my own studying, and fine my own answers.

Do you even know what the Satanic Bible is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible

LaVeyan Satanism has nothing to do with Christianity. They don't even worship the Devil. They're basically pagans who named their church Satanism in order to piss off conservative Christians who would've oppressed them anyway; for them, Satan is only a fictional archetype they identify with as a personification of the Liberated Individual.

[Smitts]

What are your views of a debate that will always be questioned? I am a Christian so take my philosophy idea's from the Bible. One of the debates that is always on my mind is the did we come from monkeys thing. I go with the idea we humans come from Adam, and Eve, Adam, and that other girl. There is chapters taken out of the Bible explaining this. All of out humans have some DNA in common, as share some basic things. The reason why I 'm not for evolution is because I think that all of the monkeys would have evolved into humans by now. I think that we many similarity with primate, but are a different species. As the most intelligent animals we know how the order goes from Kingdom to Species, and that for animals to have life we share the same few needs for things. There even a idea that both are somehow right. This is making me think WTF. Another thing would be are all Religions the same? From my point religions do have a few major things in common. There is a holy book, rules to go by, a judgment day etc. The major different is the way the world is view, and each religions God, or Gods. I take the views of Christians, and Hebrews in the area. I listen to other culture views, and accept it, but don't follow them. One of the hardest things to find out is the science of religion. Well anyway whats are your philosophies on Religion, and Science?

Going back to the original topic by the author.

About the debate of coming from monkeys. I disagree. I believe in evolution, yes. However, if we came from monkeys then there would be no monkey here now. We, including monkeys, came from another species which no longer exists. we all evolved differently due to where we lived and our genes. That is why there are so many variations. You had a wrong understanding of evolution. It states we and primates came from one ancestor that split off in evolving, basically.

Not all religions/beliefs have a judgment day. i don't know the name of the religion, I think buddhism. I don't know them because I don;t really care for them. The belief, if I'm not mistaken, for Buddhism is Karma and dying and being one with a bigger whole. or something like that.

My view on religion and Science.
Religion, it does not matter if you have faith. Faith wont change the truth. No one knows what happens no matter how much they claim they do or how much faith they have. You can have faith that your dog is outside playing but when you go and look. If the dog is asleep then the dog is asleep. I'm not saying it is wrong to have faith, I'm saying faith does not matter. We all need to expect anything and everything.

Science, I am for science. I don't necessarily see how the Big Bang started everything. Like I said in the above. It could be possible. No one knows, that is why the Big Bang is just that, a theory.
Science uses evidence to prove things. It's about as close as we can get as of now to explain things.

[wave killer]

Science only explains how "the truth" works; religion tries to explain why "the truth" does what it does. None of them actually say what this "truth" is.

To say that science is the truth only shows you have a very narrow view of the world. To say that religion is the only truth shows how afraid you really are of the world. No one can actually say they have discovered the truth and anyone who does is a liar.

[zaseo]

I have doubts about that New World Order stuff, but still many things gets to me. One of the questions many are asking is on the back of the one dollar bill there is a pyramid, and a eye. Many say it could just be a random symbol, or that its something relating to an occult.

[AuraTwilight]

About the debate of coming from monkeys. I disagree. I believe in evolution, yes. However, if we came from monkeys then there would be no monkey here now. We, including monkeys, came from another species which no longer exists. we all evolved differently due to where we lived and our genes. That is why there are so many variations. You had a wrong understanding of evolution. It states we and primates came from one ancestor that split off in evolving, basically.

While you're technically correct, I have to correct you on this: We didn't evolve from monkeys, but if we did, it wouldn't keep monkeys from currently existing. Portions of a species can experience genetic drift and become a branching species, but that doesn't obligate or force the rest of the species to either evolve with them or die out. If some of our ancestors find a comfortable niche, they can continue to live.

Infact, modern humans would have continued to co-exist with some of our cousin and parent "humanoid" species if we didn't wipe them out way back in the tribal days.

No one can actually say they have discovered the truth and anyone who does is a liar.

Well, I have, but I'm AT and not counted in your statement falsifiable to you puny human mortals. And I'm not telling.

I have doubts about that New World Order stuff, but still many things gets to me. One of the questions many are asking is on the back of the one dollar bill there is a pyramid, and a eye. Many say it could just be a random symbol, or that its something relating to an occult.

It's not. It's a symbol of the Free Masons, who were a fraternity of Deists that the Founding Fathers belonged to. It wasn't a religious, or occult, symbol though. It basically boils down to meaning "truth and justice."

[wave killer]

No one can actually say they have discovered the truth and anyone who does is a liar.

Well, I have, but I'm AT and not counted in your statement falsifiable to you puny human mortals.

It might be best if you don't tell us anyway; 99.9 percent of the human population would die from their brains exploding from the sheer amount of information the truth would contain.
....
...
...
On second thought, tell them!!!

[Adept_Aiden]

Exactly. While different, science and religion both perform the same purpose: Religion created Gods that protects and guides humans from an unknown evil (God protects us from the devil, Thor protected earth from the Midgard Serpent, etc) and science studies unknown factors and teaches us to overcome them (like a new virus or something). Both just end up comforting the uneasy mind of a human being in a world where he understands little to nothing about.

That's...not really the case. Comforting uneasy minds isn't what science is about, whatsoever, or we wouldn't of made most of the discoveries we did. For example, evolution is highly unsettling to a lot of people, but tough ****, says Science. Science is to cast light into the darkness of ignorance; religion merely rationalizes the darkness that's already there.

But if life and reality have taught me anything it would be that nothing is absolute. Back in the day people believed the atom was the smallest building block of matter and now we got hundereds of particles that many say make everything we see or will see; or that parallel universes were just science ficiton and now M-Theory proposes that there may be not one but four different types of parallel universes. And then just recently the Catholic church announced that there may in fact be alien life out in the cosmos despite saying for years there wasn't.

I do believe there is a god, which god though I don't know, and I believe in things like the big bang. But don't expect me to pick a side any time soon over whose right or whose wrong.

Religion and Science aren't incompatible or anything; it's only when the religious try and use their deities to outright defy scientific knowledge because it makes them uncomfortable. "Evolution is a lie, and the fossils were put there by the Devil, or by God to test us" is an actual argument I've heard.

Marth W-Master, a mod on this very forum and one of my best friends, is a devout Christian who has no problem accepting scientific theory. There's absolutely no reason for any scientific theory to say there is no God, as science doesn't really care about the issue one way or another; likewise, any deity that can't be reconciled with scientific thought isn't worth the worship, if you ask me.

Someone once said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses." It's a way to find answers in this vast unknown we live in. Science and religion differ in the way of coming about those answers.

That person was Karl Marx, and he's not exactly the best person to quote, as he considered religion one of the greatest evils of society.

But is he wrong in assuming that? I mean aren't many deaths caused by difference of religeons? We call people terrorists cause they bomb us in the name of their religion...Where is the line drawn? I think that people are too hardcore sometimes on their beliefs to a point to where they think it's their right to force it onto other people. If God wanted everyone to believe, then he woud tell us face to face, until then I am going to have to go with science...