Philosophy debate of Religion, and Science

[zaseo]

What are your views of a debate that will always be questioned? I am a Christian so take my philosophy idea's from the Bible. One of the debates that is always on my mind is the did we come from monkeys thing. I go with the idea we humans come from Adam, and Eve, Adam, and that other girl. There is chapters taken out of the Bible explaining this. All of out humans have some DNA in common, as share some basic things. The reason why I 'm not for evolution is because I think that all of the monkeys would have evolved into humans by now. I think that we many similarity with primate, but are a different species. As the most intelligent animals we know how the order goes from Kingdom to Species, and that for animals to have life we share the same few needs for things. There even a idea that both are somehow right. This is making me think WTF. Another thing would be are all Religions the same? From my point religions do have a few major things in common. There is a holy book, rules to go by, a judgment day etc. The major different is the way the world is view, and each religions God, or Gods. I take the views of Christians, and Hebrews in the area. I listen to other culture views, and accept it, but don't follow them. One of the hardest things to find out is the science of religion. Well anyway whats are your philosophies on Religion, and Science?

[Azure Knight]

Alright, first off, I'd like to say, we're not "Hebrews". Were Jews. Hebrew is the name of the language of the Jewish people.

Okay, so I myself, as I just mentioned, am Jewish. However, I have a hard time believing in a God that is constantly watching over and protecting us at all times. A good example is the Holocaust. If the Jewish people are supposed to be God's chosen people (I'd like to mention here that I am only saying what the Bible says, and not my personal views of who the chosen people of God are), why would He let a massive amount of his people be tortured and slaughtered? While I do believe that there may be some kind of higher power, I also believe in theories such as the Big Bang and Evolution.

You said in your post that you don't believe in evolution because there are still primates living today. However, evolution is based on a variety of factors, from rapid use of a certain body part to environmental factors, among other things. So, while some primates may have had a will or need to evolve, others did not, and did not evolve into what we now know as humans. It's the same as how amphibians evolved from fish, yet there's still an abundant amount of fish on Earth.

Religions do have many staple points in common, but it isn't very fair to say that all religions are the same.

Many say that science combats religion. However, a medieval scientist named Roger Bacon once said that science is just the study and will to more understand the creations of God.

[Mirus]

I rather not mention my religion but I will point out I do have one ( In other words, i'm not athiest nor do I worship the devil )

Some things written down, are hard to believe ( Such as walking on water, ect. ) But then you go on youtube (I'm not trying or intending to be unserious) and find someone named Criss Angel walking on water, and many other magicians and start to wonder ( Atleast I did ) if a normal person can do such things would'nt that make Jesus a normal person too ? I mean, I dont think he was but...

These things are hard to put into words, I also wonder if God is so wonderful, why did he let humanity degrade itself as much as it has? Like what Azure Knight mentioned about the Holocaust ( Which was a horrible thing, I had to study that for english class it broke my heart, almost unbelievable thing that happened! ). The automatic answer would be " Oh so humans could learn something " I dont think we learned anything since something similar is happening, as I type, in Africa ( I forgot the name of the overall area )

It would be nice if he could send us a sign of some sort to let us know for sure that he exsist

I would really apreaciate that ...

[iuliathe3rd]

Let me say this now. Everyone better watch themselves here, or I'm pulling the plug.

Have a friendly debate then, kbai.

[zaseo]

Well from my point of view this is what I think the terrible things that happen in the past such as the Holocaust
will lead up to the battle of Armageddon. The fall of America is the fall of man. America is the second Roman empire. I'm not a devil worshiper, but I hear that the a devil bible tells two sides of the same story which also mentions USA is the second Roman empire. Don't know if all that about Satan worshipers having a evil bible, and all that stuff is true. Any way I think God let things become this bad to prove to that things of this nature happens. God had a backup plan if Adam had disobeyed him which leads to everything else he plan. I wish I knew more about some of the books taken out of the bible. It would fill in some of our questions.
Azure Knight may you explain more on your philosophy on evolution please. Evolution has these rules right? Only the strong will evolve. Only the strong will survive, and adapt if necessary. I don't really believe everything in evolution, but I get what you are saying. Every animal won't have a reason to evolve. This is due to a organisms habit. I wonder why not all evolve in the same habit?

[AuraTwilight]

What are your views of a debate that will always be questioned? I am a Christian so take my philosophy idea's from the Bible. One of the debates that is always on my mind is the did we come from monkeys thing. I go with the idea we humans come from Adam, and Eve, Adam, and that other girl. There is chapters taken out of the Bible explaining this. All of out humans have some DNA in common, as share some basic things. The reason why I 'm not for evolution is because I think that all of the monkeys would have evolved into humans by now.

I'm going to do my best to be polite in this thread, so let me put this as nice as I can. Firstly, Evolution doesn't say we came from monkeys. Monkeys and humans share a common ancestor, an earlier primate that doesn't exist anymore. Secondly, that "other girl" is Lilith. She's pretty important. Thirdly, why would all of the monkeys evolved into humans by now?

Evolution isn't about "everything slowly turning into humans", it's about "what thrives in it's environment gets to reproduce." The modern monkeys live very well in their environment, so they don't need to really change. If, however, a monkey gained the ability to somehow reach bananas earlier, let's say gliding wings for a crazy example, it would reproduce easier than other monkeys. Eventually, these new flying monkeys would become their own distinct species due to how well they reproduce, and the old monkeys MAY die out, but they don't have to.

I think that we many similarity with primate, but are a different species. As the most intelligent animals we know how the order goes from Kingdom to Species, and that for animals to have life we share the same few needs for things. There even a idea that both are somehow right. This is making me think WTF.

What's wrong with that? Religion is the WHY of the universe, Science is the HOW.

Another thing would be are all Religions the same?

As I view them all as fictional delusions of grandeur on humanity's part, yes.

Some things written down, are hard to believe ( Such as walking on water, ect. ) But then you go on youtube (I'm not trying or intending to be unserious) and find someone named Criss Angel walking on water, and many other magicians and start to wonder ( Atleast I did ) if a normal person can do such things would'nt that make Jesus a normal person too ? I mean, I dont think he was but...

Due note that Criss Angel is a stage magician. He had the help of technology, smoke and mirrors.

Well from my point of view this is what I think the terrible things that happen in the past such as the Holocaust
will lead up to the battle of Armageddon. The fall of America is the fall of man. America is the second Roman empire. I'm not a devil worshiper, but I hear that the a devil bible tells two sides of the same story which also mentions USA is the second Roman empire. Don't know if all that about Satan worshipers having a evil bible, and all that stuff is true.

It's not true. For one, America isn't mentioned in the Judeo-Christian Bible whatsoever, and there are no "Satan worshipers with an evil bible." No one actually worships Satan except for stupid "goth" teenagers trying to be rebellious and cool, and Luciferians who take the Gnostic view that Lucifer is a morally righteous liberator of Man and Elohim was an oppressive, egotistical tyrant. Take note that Luciferianism has roots dating back to before Christianity started, and has roots with Valentinian Gnosticism.

Any way I think God let things become this bad to prove to that things of this nature happens. God had a backup plan if Adam had disobeyed him which leads to everything else he plan. I wish I knew more about some of the books taken out of the bible. It would fill in some of our questions.

If God knows everything, why would he need a backup plan? Why not simply go with the plan he knew he would need to use from the start and not waste time with plans he knew wouldn't work? Why can't God prove to humans that bad things happen while at the same time keeping us from coming to harm?

Azure Knight may you explain more on your philosophy on evolution please. Evolution has these rules right? Only the strong will evolve. Only the strong will survive, and adapt if necessary. I don't really believe everything in evolution, but I get what you are saying. Every animal won't have a reason to evolve. This is due to a organisms habit. I wonder why not all evolve in the same habit?

Evolution isn't about strength, it's about what's most fit. Strength is one thing, but if an animal is smarter, it might prove to be better than the big, strong gorilla or lion. Evolution isn't a force mutating animals and choosing which is better and gets to live, it's a descriptive emergence of how things happen, like how we describe the life cycle.

Organism A has little teeth. Organism A can only eat soft things, like Plants. Organism A has a baby with a mutation giving it bigger, sharper teeth. This is Organism B. Organism B can eat plants, but also meat, and tougher plants and nuts Organism A can't eat. Organism B performs better than Organism A, and thus is more likely to spread his DNA by reproducing. Organisms C and onwards have this mutation, and soon Organism A and his children might die out, or maybe Organism B's children are just too different later on down the family tree to breed with Organism B's great-great-great-etc-grandchildren. Voila, you have a new species.

[Erranty]

I like mixing Religious B.S. with Science. Because if god made us in his image, that makes god a monkey! Who the f*** doesn't love that?!

[Ratsu]

AT... I think I love you now ._. That is pretty much my entire thoughts in this thread wrapped into one post.
(only problem with me is that I live in the buckle of the bible belt so I cant share any religious views that are not christian down here or people hate me.)

[zaseo]

AT... I think I love you now ._. That is pretty much my entire thoughts in this thread wrapped into one post.
(only problem with me is that I live in the buckle of the bible belt so I cant share any religious views that are not christian down here or people hate me.)

Ratsu feel free to share your religious views. It is a debate after all. I don't care if you a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, or what ever else there is. Religion depends on how the person view the religion, and its guidelines. That whys there are so many different branches of Christianity. Hinduism, and Buddhism have many similar idea, but Buddhist for example look at the cast system different.

[Ratsu]

AT... I think I love you now ._. That is pretty much my entire thoughts in this thread wrapped into one post.
(only problem with me is that I live in the buckle of the bible belt so I cant share any religious views that are not christian down here or people hate me.)

Ratsu feel free to share your religious views. It is a debate after all. I don't care if you a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, or what ever else there is. Religion depends on how the person view the religion, and its guidelines. That whys there are so many different branches of Christianity. Hinduism, and Buddhism have many similar idea, but Buddhist for example look at the cast system different.

Oh I must not have been clear, I don't mean online. I share my views online all the time. I am speaking about the area I live in. If you know anything about the South, then you know that Religion is not a subject you can talk about lightly here. I don't have any real Religious affiliation because I feel religion in general has been bastardized from what it was originally for.

Well my opinions are... Hmm how to put it. I do think we all evolved over the course of time, I am not going to get into what made every thing because there is no real answer to it aside from "It happened" I mean something sparked the big bang I guess but I am not going to get into that. What I personally thing is that the concept of "Heaven, and Hell" and "God" Was made a long time ago for human reasons. It was not a "It has always been" Heaven, Hell, and God are all just continent for humans. For instance alot of people will not or a least try not to commit a "Sin" or something that majority of people see as "bad" because they are told if they do they will "Go to Hell" and if you do what every one things is Good you will "Go to Heaven" These really seem more like something the church put togeather (with good intent mind you) to try and force people or at least pressure them into doing things that the majority of people wanted. For instance not killing one another. The concept of "God" I think was made to give people hope. Think about this, say your in the dark ages and you are deathly ill, and some holy man tells you "God is watching over" or "God will save them" It gives them hope. The thing here is that as far as "god" is concerned he is good no matter what happens. If the person dies "They are with god now and are in a better place." this line makes people happier and ok with the passing of someone. In opposition to that if the person lives then the people say its a miracle (even if it was just a fluke) and thus god is believed in even more regardless of weather he did anything or even exists. What I personally dislike is the concept of "repent" I mean the whole confessional thing. Now days people go in there "Oh father... I cheated on my wife." and then goes on his marry way as if nothing ever happened. Like just in an instant he is forgiven. If I was god I would be like "Chea right! To hell with you!"... Hows that for a religious view? ^_^;

TLDR= I think God made the big bang, and just stat back and watched what happened.

[zaseo]

This is my view of Heaven, and Hell. Only 144,000 with go to Heaven. Those 144,000 will watch over, and rule the Earth with Jesus. The others followers of God will be resurrected, and live on the Earth with the 144,000 watching. During the battle of Armageddon fire will purge the Earth cleaning the evilness of Satan. As said before I think Armageddon will come when America falls. Think of what will happen if a great county like America falls. History will likely repeat itself until a great force causes a major revolution.

[AuraTwilight]

I like mixing Religious B.S. with Science. Because if god made us in his image, that makes god a monkey! Who the f*** doesn't love that?!

Evolutionary theory doesn't say we're monkeys or descended from monkeys. lrn2evolution.

Besides, the "being made in his image" thing is apparently supposed to represent our spiritual image. Capacity for love and knowledge and whatnot.

TLDR= I think God made the big bang, and just stat back and watched what happened.

That's called Deism. Though if you want a scientific, secular explanation for what caused the Big Bang, I can find some for you. They exist.

This is my view of Heaven, and Hell. Only 144,000 with go to Heaven. Those 144,000 will watch over, and rule the Earth with Jesus. The others followers of God will be resurrected, and live on the Earth with the 144,000 watching. During the battle of Armageddon fire will purge the Earth cleaning the evilness of Satan. As said before I think Armageddon will come when America falls. Think of what will happen if a great county like America falls. History will likely repeat itself until a great force causes a major revolution.

Like I said, America falling isn't in Biblical Prophecy. The passage you're probably interpreting to mean this refers to when all countries unite under one leader. But this doesn't require America falling, or even failing to prosper. If America's President became the world leader, it's still relevant to the passage.

[Ratsu]

That's called Deism. Though if you want a scientific, secular explanation for what caused the Big Bang, I can find some for you. They exist.

Oh you can? Please show me. I mean I have always thought that the only real reason to think there is a god is creating the big bang, or at least causing it to come into existence.

If there is a god... He owes me cake and grief counseling...

"During the battle of Armageddon fire will purge the Earth cleaning the evilness of Satan."

Wait how can that be, I thought good and evil was supposed to have one final confrontation at a place called Magido?

[zaseo]

You right Ratsu. You know in the book of Revelation when all of the bad things happen like earthquakes, fires, tsunamis, and stuff. When all that happen doesn't that stuff rid the world of evil before, or after the final battle?

[AuraTwilight]

Oh you can? Please show me. I mean I have always thought that the only real reason to think there is a god is creating the big bang, or at least causing it to come into existence.

That's called the God of the Gaps argument, which is simply thinking "We don't understand this yet, and I can't imagine how science can explain it in the future, so God did it."

The Big Bang wasn't an explosion that created matter out of nothing. Moreover, it was a infinitely small singularity containing all matter and energy in our current universe, and space began expanding, allowing that matter room to react, flow, and eventually form stars and whatnot. This expansion of space, to save you tomes of essays, was basically caused by quantum fluctuations. It's currently believed under modern M-Theory, the leading understanding of the quantum universe.

Basically, given the way quantum particles behave, if there is no God, then alternate universes are factually present, as higher quantum implications kinda mean they have to exist. This is Bubble Theory, moreover, wherein there would be an infinite amount of universes in, let's say, a cosmic foam. Matter could be collected through a wormhole and expanded through the other side, creating a brand new universe that buds off like a bubble.

However, for this to happen, a universe must be capable of forming black holes to allow this to happen. It's speculated our own universe has done this countless times. Under this theory, a sort of natural selection would favor universes like ours and denser, because more black holes equals more opportunities to reproduce, creating more universes with out physical laws. This process of universes creating universes would've always existed, having no beginning and no end.

You right Ratsu. You know in the book of Revelation when all of the bad things happen like earthquakes, fires, tsunamis, and stuff. When all that happen doesn't that stuff rid the world of evil before, or after the final battle?

According to Biblical Scripture, after the 144,000 are taken, the ones remaining on Earth are to suffer through all that bad crap, then the Serpent is sealed away, allowing for 1000 years of peace. During this 1000 years, everyone is supposed to be bodily revived, and we go through that Book of Life stuff and all that. God's kingdom is created, then after 1000 years, the Serpent breaks loose and the Final Battle goes down, the aftermath allowing for mankind to make their final decision of who they side with.

[Ratsu]

AT... you are amazing. o.o

[zaseo]

I'm glad to be 16 finally anyway. AT yes you are amazing. If only the world had even more people to think with a mind like you. Its something that bothers me about the Big Bang Theory, and the universe. The way I look at it is that there is only one universe. After all uni right? I think nothing can't exist outside of the universe, or either the universe is infinite with space, and time.

[AuraTwilight]

The Universe's name is sort've a misnomer. It was named when we thought there was only one, and it's kinda too late to change it. However, modern physics pretty much demands that there be alternate universes. There's no way around it unless you invoke God and say that he's keeping only one universe in existence (which only begs the question of why God decided all these alternate universes shouldn't exist).

[fepkk]

I'm glad to be 16 finally anyway. AT yes you are amazing. If only the world had even more people to think with a mind like you. Its something that bothers me about the Big Bang Theory, and the universe. The way I look at it is that there is only one universe. After all uni right? I think nothing can't exist outside of the universe, or either the universe is infinite with space, and time.

Well, it is already proved by science that if the Universe had always existed, the stars would have had enough time to heat up the universe to their temperature. What's more, space can't be infinite too, otherwise we would be seeing a bright sky 24 hours a day as from every point of view you look, it would end up in a star.

[AuraTwilight]

Well, technically, the universe is infinite, it's just that not all of that space has stars in it, and most likely, the universe is bounded around similar to a sphere or moebius strip.