dothackers.net

I really can't think of the D-Reaper as a 'villain' as it had no villainous intent. It was just an entity doing it's job. Obviously though, when your job is destroying things, not everyone is gonna like you.

Yea, but as an antagonist, it's the best. A horrible abomination neither human nor digimon, that contradicted itself by evolving beyond it's own parameters to delete those that went beyond it's own parameters. A being with no understanding of the meaning of life. Nihilism Incarnate. No matter what the other villains can say, the D-Reaper was the ultimate incarnation of darkness. It was just Death.

Now Kurata on the other hand. Cowardly, petty, egotistical, power-hungry, manipulative, immoral. A fine example of everything bad about humanity. Grand villain.

Agreed.

Myotismon sucked because HE NEVER STAYED DEAD. The fact he stole Daemon's screen time as villain in 02 also blew.

Myotismon was awesome, and I think it was a f*cking AWESOME twist that he orchestrated the entire second season. Though I do agree Daemon got shafted.

Apocalymon...was hilarious in the dub. Hard to really see that guy as 'evil' when he made some of the metaphors he did.

"YOU GOT ALL THE PIZZA AND I GOT THE CRUSTS." "stfu emo."

I have to admit, Piedmon was awesome. But Joker-esque villains are a personal favourite of mine. The other Dark Masters were eh.

Puppetmon was awesome.

Weird guy possessed by MaloMyotismon/D. Kaiser/Yamaki = obligatory human villains who turn good. Blech. Humanity rocks, Digimon suck we get the idea.

I wouldn't consider Yamaki a villain, since he wasn't really aware that Digimon were sentient beings. Are you a villain for wiping spyware off your computer? And Oikawa and Ken were possessed, so it's not their fault they turned good.

Yggdrasil = Slightly over the top ruler. Eh.

He had such a God Complex that it was like looking in a mirror.

omg! i thought Apocalymon's story arc was horrible. it was like two episodes long. and there wasnt any good fights between him and the digimon. like it seemed like the finale was rsuhed a bit.

How could it be MORE than two episodes long? They're fighting in NOTHINGNESS. I think it was pretty good, since it wasn't about the fight but the character development. Against the greatest of odds, it turns out the true weapon of the Chosen Children isn't their fancy devices, but the qualities of heart that made them Chosen in the first place.

yeah but i would have liked some more fighting between apocalymon and the digimon. it just felt like they rushed into the apocalymon thing really fast after piedmon was defeated.

I missed Puppetmon's gun mainly. It really helped add to his character in the original, but they couldn't really show kids using firearms in a kids show stateside I guess.

And as an antagonist, yeah, the D-Reaper was the best ever. But in no way, shape or form was it a villain. I generally maintain there's a difference.

And on Ken/Yamaki/freaky Myotismon guy, yeah, I know it was because they were possessed/didn't fully comprehend the situation that they 'turned' good, but I just feel annoyed that they never let a human honestly be evil when there were evil Digimon all over the place, especially when they had decent setups, Ken especially for those unaware of the Wonderswan games' storylines, what with him being played off as an arrogant brat who saw it all as nothing more than a game where he was the main character. Of course Kurata came along and fixed that problem nicely.

I think Yggdrasil admittedly had the right to a god complex, since it really basically was GOD. Still, it really went overboard. I should kinda finish watching Savers though, since I can't make a wholehearted call on him yet.


And TheEnigma, final battles shouldn't be about the battle, but rather tying together the character development and drawing it all to a close, which Apocalymon did nicely. MaloMyotismon...not so much.

Samael wrote:I missed Puppetmon's gun mainly. It really helped add to his character in the original, but they couldn't really show kids using firearms in a kids show stateside I guess.

Don't forget his nose drill.=P

Samael wrote: Ken especially for those unaware of the Wonderswan games' storylines, what with him being played off as an arrogant brat who saw it all as nothing more than a game where he was the main character.

Didn't those storylines ultimately work their way into 02? Millenniumon (another awesome Digimon) was shown, as was Ryo.

Samael wrote: The fact he stole Daemon's screen time as villain in 02 also blew.

The problem with Daemon is that he was a giant plot hole for 02. He literally showed up out of nowhere and was just as quickly sealed away. 02 was also introducing Dagomon but did absolutely nothing with him. Too many loose ends left with 02.

milliennium_fox wrote:

Samael wrote:I missed Puppetmon's gun mainly. It really helped add to his character in the original, but they couldn't really show kids using firearms in a kids show stateside I guess.

Don't forget his nose drill.=P

Samael wrote: Ken especially for those unaware of the Wonderswan games' storylines, what with him being played off as an arrogant brat who saw it all as nothing more than a game where he was the main character.

Didn't those storylines ultimately work their way into 02? Millenniumon (another awesome Digimon) was shown, as was Ryo.

Samael wrote: The fact he stole Daemon's screen time as villain in 02 also blew.

The problem with Daemon is that he was a giant plot hole for 02. He literally showed up out of nowhere and was just as quickly sealed away. 02 was also introducing Dagomon but did absolutely nothing with him. Too many loose ends left with 02.

I sometimes like to think 02 was a giant plothole in and of itself. Then again, I missed like 3 episodes of it and apparently 2 of them were important *shifty eyes*. Did they ever talk more about that dark ocean area?

Ryo was only shown for about 2 seconds total in an 02 flashback. I don't think they ever mentioned him in the english dub of 02, or ever explained in Tamers about him being able to go through dimensions. Y'know, you'd think the kids in Tamers would've remembered seeing Ryo in season 2 when they watched it on T.V. (unless they had only gotten season one at that point, which I doubt). I remember being really confused, so I had to look up Ryo online. I was kind of expecting to hear about him making a cameo appearance in Savers, actually, since Yggdrasil was in it. . .

Art_Master_Gio wrote: Did they ever talk more about that dark ocean area?

They never did. Thinking about it, it seems as though it were some sort of inspiration from Cthulu mythos.

Art_Master_Gio wrote: Y'know, you'd think the kids in Tamers would've remembered seeing Ryo in season 2 when they watched it on T.V. (unless they had only gotten season one at that point, which I doubt).

I've heard that before but I can't recall either version of Tamers stating that the first 2 seasons were a show. I've always dismissed that as false info that spread rather quickly.

As for Ryo, he has always been in the background (with even a quick cameo in the second movie). I'm not sure, but I believe even the Japanese version of 02 didn't mention him by name.

Dragomon really did look like Cthulu =_=;;

I think it was more a nod at Tamers, where there were many levels to the digital world. Or just a plot hole. Your choice >_<

Ryo had a quick cameo in Our War Game? I think I vaguely remember that, actually. . .

He's one of the kids emailing to stop Diabolomon(it's amazing how much cooler a name becomes when you fix the engrish...)

No mention of the Wonderswan games was given as far as I was aware in the anime(but I've only seen the dubs of season 1-4). You just had Ken being a pretty damn good villain, then turning good, then revealing it was THE DARK SEED that made him evil in the first place, WHICH never got an explanation in the anime(where the seed in Ken came from anyway, he got it protecting Ryu from Moon=Milleniumon in Anode/Cathode Tamer.) and Dragomon and Daemon were basically not used, and the Dark Ocean, despite having some seemingly big important role, given how much cd happened there, was pretty much forgotten.

I guess my loathing of MMmon came from hat. We had all this build up, the enigmatic lord of the Dark Ocean, Dragomon, the 3 remaining Guardians, the mighty Demon Lord Daemon and who's the final villain? Myotismon. They have to kill him. Again. Admittedly that sequence with EVERY DIGIVOLUTION EVAR in one massive assault was aweshum.

I'll admit his story was good enough, but it just felt like it was thrown on, and everything they'd been building up before got tossed aside to stick him in AGAIN, leaving gaping plotholes in the rest of the story.

The ending I can't really fault, what else were they gonna do besides grow up(besides fill in those damn plotholes...)? I will admit I did have an issue with the pairings but eh, w/e. I have better things to do than waste time ranting about which cartoons who should've done it like rabid monkeys.

[quote="Samael]And TheEnigma, final battles shouldn't be about the battle, but rather tying together the character development and drawing it all to a close, which Apocalymon did nicely. MaloMyotismon...not so much.[/quote]

yeah. i see your point now. it wasn't really a battle but a test to see just how strong the kids feelings really were.

And as an antagonist, yeah, the D-Reaper was the best ever. But in no way, shape or form was it a villain. I generally maintain there's a difference.

Well, it did kinda shift from "Delete" to "Death" and deliberately tortured Juri to feed off her negative emotions.

I think Yggdrasil admittedly had the right to a god complex, since it really basically was GOD. Still, it really went overboard. I should kinda finish watching Savers though, since I can't make a wholehearted call on him yet.

Yea, it went overboard. "I will allow both worlds to be destroyed to make a better one in their place, f*ck you guys." "WE DO NOT NEED A FOD!"

And TheEnigma, final battles shouldn't be about the battle, but rather tying together the character development and drawing it all to a close, which Apocalymon did nicely. MaloMyotismon...not so much.

MaloMyotismon wasn't THAT bad. Okay, yea, the fact that they killed him with happy thoughts was lame, but they were drawing energy from the Dream Dimension, so I'll cut them some slack. The battle did bring about the ultimate fulfillment of the series' message though.

Didn't those storylines ultimately work their way into 02? Millenniumon (another awesome Digimon) was shown, as was Ryo.

Not entirely. Only the Dark Spore release really got into it because of Ryo's crazy reality warp.

The problem with Daemon is that he was a giant plot hole for 02. He literally showed up out of nowhere and was just as quickly sealed away. 02 was also introducing Dagomon but did absolutely nothing with him. Too many loose ends left with 02.

\

I AGREE! DAGOMON AND THAT WHOLE EPISODE WERE WRITTEN BY F*CKING CHIAKI J. KONOKA!!! WTF USE HIS IDEAS DIPSHITS! I would've dropped all the rest of 02 if they would've f*cking explained what the deal with Hikari is. She was clearly something superhuman and preternatural that goes BEYOND being the Chosen Child of Light, but f*ck all if they ever explain it.

f*ck.

I sometimes like to think 02 was a giant plothole in and of itself. Then again, I missed like 3 episodes of it and apparently 2 of them were important *shifty eyes*. Did they ever talk more about that dark ocean area?

Yup. It's basically the Digital Hell for Digimon too evil to be allowed to reincarnate, and it was created by the dark, Thanatos-derived desires of the human race.

Ryo was only shown for about 2 seconds total in an 02 flashback. I don't think they ever mentioned him in the english dub of 02, or ever explained in Tamers about him being able to go through dimensions. Y'know, you'd think the kids in Tamers would've remembered seeing Ryo in season 2 when they watched it on T.V. (unless they had only gotten season one at that point, which I doubt). I remember being really confused, so I had to look up Ryo online. I was kind of expecting to hear about him making a cameo appearance in Savers, actually, since Yggdrasil was in it. . .

1) Ryo ceased to exist in the Digimon Adventure universe when he left it due to Milleniummon's reality warp, so only Ken as a vague recollection of him.
2) In the Tamers universe, things were warped so that Ryo was always there. He has no memories of his old life, and even has a family.
3) Ryo has no connection to Yggdrasil.

I've heard that before but I can't recall either version of Tamers stating that the first 2 seasons were a show. I've always dismissed that as false info that spread rather quickly.

It's true. Both the English and Japanese versions refer to "The cartoon" and Takato puts on goggles so he could be "A Digidestined/Chosen Child! Like Tai(chi)!"

I think it was more a nod at Tamers, where there were many levels to the digital world. Or just a plot hole. Your choice >_<

How could it be a nod to a series that doesn't exist yet?

I guess my loathing of MMmon came from hat. We had all this build up, the enigmatic lord of the Dark Ocean, Dragomon, the 3 remaining Guardians, the mighty Demon Lord Daemon and who's the final villain? Myotismon. They have to kill him. Again. Admittedly that sequence with EVERY DIGIVOLUTION EVAR in one massive assault was aweshum.

Better a returning villain than a new villain that sucked.

Ahem ahem the Daevas ahem ahem.

Sorry, phlegm-ish throat.

I'll admit his story was good enough, but it just felt like it was thrown on, and everything they'd been building up before got tossed aside to stick him in AGAIN, leaving gaping plotholes in the rest of the story.

Well I saw evidence for Myotismon's return ALL THE WAY back to Wizardmon's prophecy if you watch the series a second time. They've been planning for his return since atleast episode 16.

The ending I can't really fault, what else were they gonna do besides grow up(besides fill in those damn plotholes...)? I will admit I did have an issue with the pairings but eh, w/e. I have better things to do than waste time ranting about which cartoons who should've done it like rabid monkeys.

Agreed. I mean, come on. Takeru X Hikari is like, the most OBVIOUS pairing, and they didn't go for it. And some of the careers were really lame. Yamato all of a sudden becomes an astronaut despite all of his musical talent? WTF?

Atleast they got Ken and Miyako right. Atleast. Yamato X Sora I can give or take, since I also support Sora X Taichi.

What's this?!? No Women, No Digimon, Yaoi only, Taichi X Yamato, FINAL DESTINATION!!!!

AuraTwilight wrote:

The problem with Daemon is that he was a giant plot hole for 02. He literally showed up out of nowhere and was just as quickly sealed away. 02 was also introducing Dagomon but did absolutely nothing with him. Too many loose ends left with 02.

\

I AGREE! DAGOMON AND THAT WHOLE EPISODE WERE WRITTEN BY F*CKING CHIAKI J. KONOKA!!! WTF USE HIS IDEAS DIPSHITS! I would've dropped all the rest of 02 if they would've f*cking explained what the deal with Hikari is. She was clearly something superhuman and preternatural that goes BEYOND being the Chosen Child of Light, but f*ck all if they ever explain it.

f*ck.

Looking at it again, that episode was definately inspired by Cthulhu mythos. Even the Japanese name of the episode gives it away, "The Call of Dagomon". The choice of Divermon appearing was another clue as similar creatures appear in the story "The Shadow Over Innsmouth". I really would have loved to have seen more done with this.

AuraTwilight wrote:

I sometimes like to think 02 was a giant plothole in and of itself. Then again, I missed like 3 episodes of it and apparently 2 of them were important *shifty eyes*. Did they ever talk more about that dark ocean area?

Yup. It's basically the Digital Hell for Digimon too evil to be allowed to reincarnate, and it was created by the dark, Thanatos-derived desires of the human race.

I remember they did seal Daemon in it, so I guess you could interpret it that way. Though, I'm still fairly sure they never explicitly said what it was.

AuraTwilight wrote:

I've heard that before but I can't recall either version of Tamers stating that the first 2 seasons were a show. I've always dismissed that as false info that spread rather quickly.

It's true. Both the English and Japanese versions refer to "The cartoon" and Takato puts on goggles so he could be "A Digidestined/Chosen Child! Like Tai(chi)!"

Ah, that's correct.

AuraTwilight wrote:Ahem ahem the Daevas ahem ahem.

I actually enjoyed them. They even brought us Lopmon as a result. Never had there been a more anticipated appearance since the Black Wargreymon vs. Wargreymon battle.

AuraTwilight wrote:

I'll admit his story was good enough, but it just felt like it was thrown on, and everything they'd been building up before got tossed aside to stick him in AGAIN, leaving gaping plotholes in the rest of the story.

Well I saw evidence for Myotismon's return ALL THE WAY back to Wizardmon's prophecy if you watch the series a second time.

It's true. Even the U.S. production staff had hinted that the final enemy was an old one long before he appeared in the Japanese broadcast.

AuraTwilight wrote:

The ending I can't really fault, what else were they gonna do besides grow up(besides fill in those damn plotholes...)? I will admit I did have an issue with the pairings but eh, w/e. I have better things to do than waste time ranting about which cartoons who should've done it like rabid monkeys.

Agreed. I mean, come on. Takeru X Hikari is like, the most OBVIOUS pairing, and they didn't go for it. And some of the careers were really lame. Yamato all of a sudden becomes an astronaut despite all of his musical talent? WTF?

Atleast they got Ken and Miyako right. Atleast. Yamato X Sora I can give or take, since I also support Sora X Taichi.

What's this?!? No Women, No Digimon, Yaoi only, Taichi X Yamato, FINAL DESTINATION!!!!

I'll still always enjoy 02 for some of the spectacular battles it brought, as well as some awesome evolutions. Imperialdramon remains one of my favorites.

How could it be a nod to a series that doesn't exist yet?

Sorry, I meant to say it was more of a hint at what they might do for Tamers, mentioning other plains and such since the digital world of Tamers had different layers (the desert layer, then that ocean, and where the sovereigns were, etc.).

1) Ryo ceased to exist in the Digimon Adventure universe when he left it due to Milleniummon's reality warp, so only Ken as a vague recollection of him.
2) In the Tamers universe, things were warped so that Ryo was always there. He has no memories of his old life, and even has a family.
3) Ryo has no connection to Yggdrasil.

I just always assumed Ryo was originally part of the Tamers universe, which is why his family was there *shrug*. I got Yggdrasil confused with ENIAC >_<

Okay, I got this quote from Digimon Wiki, for anyone else who had also just assumed he was originally part of the tamers universe (this is at the end of the wonderswan game Brave Tamer, the last game he stars in).

Ryo was given supposedly given the option in the end to either return to his world (Adventure) or go to the world of the Tamers. He chose to go to the Tamer's world, for reasons unknown. It is said that it was because he could not forgive his 'friends' back in his world for using him in D-1 Tamers after recovering his memories and preferred not to see them again. It is unknown how he got his parents to the Tamer's world as well. It is possible that they were only adopted parents or that they were already part of that world. If so, it is unknown what happened to the Ryo of that world.

They should make a new digimon anime based on Ryo's story. It seems like to me that he has more backstory than any of the other kids out of all the season combined. I mean he goes to different universes or whatever, and only Ken vaguely remembers him. I mean if the made another show, they could really go in-depth with Ryo. Plus he is an awesome character.

I remember they did seal Daemon in it, so I guess you could interpret it that way. Though, I'm still fairly sure they never explicitly said what it was.

According to one of the Wonderswan games, along with the cards, Anubismon manages Digimon reincarnation, and sends excessively evil Digimon to the Dark Ocean/Area.

I actually enjoyed them. They even brought us Lopmon as a result. Never had there been a more anticipated appearance since the Black Wargreymon vs. Wargreymon battle.

They had their ups and downs, Lopmon being one of the ups, but I felt they could've been better managed.

Sorry, I meant to say it was more of a hint at what they might do for Tamers, mentioning other plains and such since the digital world of Tamers had different layers (the desert layer, then that ocean, and where the sovereigns were, etc.).

That's hardly an allusion. The different layers were separate planes of the Digital World, and the Dark Ocean was a third, separate world entirely.

I just always assumed Ryo was originally part of the Tamers universe, which is why his family was there *shrug*. I got Yggdrasil confused with ENIAC >_<

Okay, I got this quote from Digimon Wiki, for anyone else who had also just assumed he was originally part of the tamers universe (this is at the end of the wonderswan game Brave Tamer, the last game he stars in).

Ryo was given supposedly given the option in the end to either return to his world (Adventure) or go to the world of the Tamers. He chose to go to the Tamer's world, for reasons unknown. It is said that it was because he could not forgive his 'friends' back in his world for using him in D-1 Tamers after recovering his memories and preferred not to see them again. It is unknown how he got his parents to the Tamer's world as well. It is possible that they were only adopted parents or that they were already part of that world. If so, it is unknown what happened to the Ryo of that world.

The Digimon Wiki sucks ass. It's not an adoptive family, and Tamers Ryo has no memory of his Adventure life. It was a Reality Warp.

They should make a new digimon anime based on Ryo's story. It seems like to me that he has more backstory than any of the other kids out of all the season combined. I mean he goes to different universes or whatever, and only Ken vaguely remembers him. I mean if the made another show, they could really go in-depth with Ryo. Plus he is an awesome character.

I'd rather they didn't. Having played the games, the story isn't very good anime material.

the best evil Digimon imo is the Mutant one in one of the Digimon games.. the turn base one where you have a cart and a 3 digimon team

the mutant was part Megadramon, War graymon and a few others. he was so ***** OP

They should make a new digimon anime based on Ryo's story. It seems like to me that he has more backstory than any of the other kids out of all the season combined. I mean he goes to different universes or whatever, and only Ken vaguely remembers him. I mean if the made another show, they could really go in-depth with Ryo. Plus he is an awesome character.

[/quote]I'd rather they didn't. Having played the games, the story isn't very good anime material.[/quote]

How are the game anyway? I know they were only released for the wonderswan, but other than the stories, how is the combat and such?

they should release the games here on the ds or something like that.

Ever play Dragon Warrior Monsters? It's like a crappier version of that.

Kyero Fox wrote:the best evil Digimon imo is the Mutant one in one of the Digimon games.. the turn base one where you have a cart and a 3 digimon team

the mutant was part Megadramon, War graymon and a few others. he was so ***** OP

Digimon World 2 was the game. I'm not sure which Digimon you mean though.

I'm guessing NeoCrimson.

AuraTwilight wrote:Ever play Dragon Warrior Monsters? It's like a crappier version of that.

ouch! that bad huh? never mind about that.