The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision ?

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The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision ?

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Hi, I'm back with a long post. I guess it is useful to make a small preview of it : I'll give you my view of what is the essence of DotHack, of the MMO "The World", and how it would be possible to concretize the feelings that this game gives to its players... Then ask for yours.

For a few days, I have explored this forum and the net for a while, in order to have a view of what fans have made on the thema "fan made DotHack MMO". It has been a little surprizing to see that there are tons of projects (as I wasn't aware that DotHack was so popular), and nor less surprizing to see that there were tons of fails/fakes with a ratio project/success nearly equal to 0. Well, I guess that creating an MMO is hard work that not everyone is able to create. But, beyond that amazing success rate, an obvious fact to me was that absolutely no project seemed to take care of the true essence of .hack.
Sure, its universe is somehow interesting, with its places, its classes, its skills. It is the surface of DotHack, what we see first, what we play with first. But... Let's imagine. Is there really a point to create an MMO only based on this part of .hack universe ?
Put this into an MMO. Except its universe, would such a game have something better than any other MMO ? Honestly, playing this MMO would be terribly boring to me... Basic game mechanics, poorly designed class system, etc. DotHack is nice only because there are strange and unclear events occuring all over The World. Except this, it would be a plain and dramatically standard game. A shame when looking at DotHack over all its medias.
So, my question is : why none of those fan-made games are able to give only a piece of information about events ? I am not talking of events in its MMO meaning (like festivals, PvP competitions, spawning of mobs, all this kind of events mostly created by Game Masters), but events as facts, as "something happened at this place, at this time, and those players have seen it". Something not foresaw, spontaneous. Why none of these projects have a true speech about their way of creating events ? Maybe is it just me - and that is why I am here talking about this, so that people could throw me a nice "gtfo" - maybe not... But all the events taking place in DotHack has given it all of its epic dimension, not its game mechanics.
Of course, I talk about events generated by AI. Morganna, Aura, AIDA. All of those AI are the cause, directly or indirectly, of what happened in The World. Obviously, players are a lot responsible too. But at the beginning it was all about AI acts. It was only players actions, their misunderstanding of events, their suppositions, the wishes they have placed inside, that had led them to act in consequence of AI acts.
In my mind, a DotHack MMO without this aspect would be nothing. Just a boring MMO, maybe with some GM events in order to simulate AI acts (like one of the project I've seen)... But fake acts.

In this case, what to say about these acts, how to make them real ? How would it be possible to make players to feel them true ?
My answer (feel free to give yours) take place in roleplay.

To understand what I mean, I'll have to give a view of what I think about the roleplay. I divides it in two:
- First, the "fake" roleplay. The one that is an actor game. The one where people can change in an impressively manner their way of thinking, of talking, to reflect their character's mind.
- Second, the "true" roleplay. The roleplay reflecting the mind of the player, not its character's one.
I guess some people here know a little about Pokémon and all its rumors. Years ago there was this famous truck to push to get a Mew, for example. It was not the only one rumor, there were plenty of them, but it was a rumor that had passionate many people, who tried again and again to discover what was hidden behind that truck. This kind of rumors has created something like legends around the game. This was at the beginning a truly simple fact : a sprite in the game at an unusual place. Players have extrapolated so much about this sprite... When I think about this, I can't avoid the comparison to DotHack : Aura, Key of the Twilight, Tri-Edge signs, BBS rumors spread, etc. In DotHack, noone know what is hidden behind facts, and this is what make them passionating, because those are not generated by people, but by AI whose working is obscure. IRL, however, if you look at fan-made Dothack MMO (or all MMO in general) it's just something like a scavenger hunt. Somewhat interesting following what is given at the end... But not really passionating : someone has prepared the thing, it's a fake that won't go really far. Where is the feel to discover something, to be the first one to go there, the first one to have this ?

At this point, everything is a fake. Imagine a DotHack where Haseo can't look for "Tri-Edge" Azure Kite between 6PM-9AM because it is a GM that plays the character and that he has to go back home. Ridiculous ? That is what is currently done.

To summarized all my previous words : AI. Those two letters are the root of The World, of DotHack events : thus, why can't I see those two letters in fan-made games, and noone complaining about their absence ? For me, it's the core, the essence of DotHack. AI, their acts, players actions and reactions, rumors, BBS. Am I wrong ? Am I the only one to think that what is great in The World is not its classical gameplay, but its autonomy, its mysteries ? If it is the case... what is your answer ? What is so interesting into The World ? Why imagine it becoming real gives you a heartbeat ?

Feel free to discuss a lot about this topic. A true debate would be really great. Just forget all technical problems that a real "The World" would imply. Think about the feelings that this game gave to its players in DotHack, and how you could feel them IRL if such a game was reality.

Thanks in advance :)
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

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Is there something unclear with my topic, something to explain... Is it uninteresting ? Or have I knocked to the wrong door ?
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by Shin Amakiir »

Mod wrote:Is there something unclear with my topic, something to explain... Is it uninteresting ? Or have I knocked to the wrong door ?
This forum isn't the most busy forum out there, and personally I'm too tired to read all of that right now. Give it some time, people will read it.
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by Smitts »

I pray nothing like .hack is ever invented in "reality."

I'll waste my life on it.
It would probably be what my life consisted of and only of, lol.
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by emptyazureskies »

there is so much like the girl that appears at 12am.... do u calibrate for whose time? they are coming out with those 3d goggles it should use them... link combined r1 and r2 so link should be the basis for any new game... bigger and better always... how many classes?
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

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@Shin Amakiir : It seems that even with some more time there are not that many answers ^^. If you know a place where a topic like mine would be better received, I'm interested.

@Smitts : I can easily imagine that you would spent some time on such a game, but why ? What would motivate you to play ? Its gameplay ? Its universe ? Take all game/anime events out of The World, what is so pleasant in it (in any form that this game can have, R:1, R:2, R:X, or mix of all) ?
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by Kaori »

Mod wrote:It seems that even with some more time there are not that many answers ^^. If you know a place where a topic like mine would be better received, I'm interested.
Try sanitarium's, they can listen to ramblings all day long, seriously the world doesnt need a real live MMO, its better as something fictitious, and thats kinda the one of points of online games: to get away from the harshness of the real world.
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by Gnat »

Your post is pretty long, but is actually pretty easy to understand, sorry that more people haven't read it.

I think these two snippits make up what you are trying to say:
"...all the events taking place in DotHack has given it all of its epic dimension, not its game mechanics."

"To summarized all my previous words : AI. Those two letters are the root of The World, of DotHack events : thus, why can't I see those two letters in fan-made games, and noone complaining about their absence ?"
I have to agree with you in that what made .hack as a franchise interesting was the strange events in game, but it's hard to relate what we as players of the franchise to what The World is in the .hack universe.
Think of who is focused on in the series. They are players who through blind luck or their own agenda have been wrapped up in The World's great conspiracy, but they are few. Most of the players in The World played the game because of its gameplay, I'm sure the gameplay seems pretty dull to us as players of the "fake" The World, but to most players in the .hack universe the ability to communicate complex emotions and get real feedback (sometimes leading to coma) makes the game interesting.

If The World was made into an MMO too many people would expect hacking to be a key element in the game. In the .hack universe very few people are given the bracelet and few without it are able to access blocked gates. If the game ever did get released and relied on hacking elements I probably wouldn't play it, there's no use being the chosen hero if everyone else in the game is. This is probably why .hack//fragment was completely instanced, they did it so that you can play through the story mode with friends.

Your point about AI does make sense in this regard, since an AI would make the events in game seem less scripted, certain players would be chosen for some epic quest I'm sure and most would be left out but the rumors could keep the game interesting for "un-important" players. It's cool to think about AI, but in reality we won't see anything as complex as the AI in .hack for a very, very long time (speaking as a Computer Science major here).
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by Mod »

Hi,

Sorry for bumping such an old topic, but I'm still looking for some comments of your vision of what a real life The World woud be. I've already gathered a lot of data on this topic throughout these last months, but I'm now trying to see what may have change after Sword Art Online came out from Japan, and if it had an impact on what .hack fans would expect.

I guess just asking wouldn't work very well (saw it last time ^^), so to clarify my intentions, please note that I'm a professional game server developer.
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Re: The World in DotHack, The World in reality : your vision

Post by Onytgvx »

Smitts wrote:I pray nothing like .hack is ever invented in "reality."

I'll waste my life on it.
It would probably be what my life consisted of and only of, lol.
^This.
Just give me the normal .hack games :P
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