SOPA and PIPA

[zaseo]

I'm sure everyone knows about SOPA and PIPA. Internet censorship would suck. It would be hard to get information and enjoy one of the best things about life. Freedom of speech would die if those acts passed. Any website with copyright materials would get blacklist or shut down. YouTube would suck. It would be mostly music videos from VEVO (very evil video organization). A lot of epic channels would get shut down. Well there is A LOT of things that we know whats wrong with these acts. The Internet might just be epic fail soon.

[Erranty]

That's not the big issue here. The issue is that the government even considered a bill that promotes any form of censorship in the first place, when we already have copyright laws that've been drastically misused by corporations time and time again.

But lets just get right down to what it was "Intended" for, Piracy. In each of its major categories.

Music: People don't like paying $16 for a CD just to find out that the only good songs on it are already on the radio all the time. Official Music selling things like iTunes give you crappy AAC format files at crappy 192kbps bitrates. High quality MP3s are 320Kbps, and FLAC has 1,411Kbps bitrates! People who enjoy quality shouldn't have to pay a dollar a song (more than you pay for each song on a CD quite often) for crap.

To top it off, its not any different than recording it off the radio with a tape. As long is its only for personal use there's really nothing illegal about that is there?

But I guess the biggest reason people are doing it is because the quality in music these days has been steadily going down. Its rare these days to find music good enough to make you feel its worth promoting the artist. Asis Galvin was a recent one I found that is actually worth it, you should google him.

Movies: Lets face it, most people aren't going to watch a movie more than twice unless its absolutely amazing. Charging $20-30 for a DVD/Blu-Ray is just not right. Theater tickets being between $5-12 isn't that bad, but its a full experience when you go to a theater. Streaming sites like Netflix and Hulu are limited by quality (quality again, its important) and that diminishes the value.

When you download a movie from a torrent or elsewhere, its not any different than lending a copy you already own to a friend, then they lend it to a family member, and it just gets passed around constantly. That's not illegal is it? Do we have to buy a copy for each person now in order for them to watch it?

Most of the time, people end up deleting them after watching them anyway because they really don't feel like watching it another time. What does that say about the movies themselves, gentlemen?

Programs: This one is pretty simple actually. Most programs lately have key-codes that can't be used twice. Borderland's Game of the Year Edition has the problem in the worst way, if you ever have to wipe your system because of a virus, and you don't go online, download an "invalidator" so you can use your code again, and THEN wipe your computer, you can't play legal DLC unless you buy another disc or buy the DLC. And whats more, you can only "invalidate" your code 4 times!
I own my disc, I purchased it in a store through official and legal channels, but I use an illegal digital copy because I wasn't aware of those things before I had to wipe my system. I even copied ALL my game data over to an External HDD to save it all too. I salvaged the save files and put them in the illegal game.

And then there's programs like Gimp, which are knock-offs of Adobe Photoshop. They do the same things, they're just a different program. They're free, and in many cases they're needed. People can't pay for a program when they have no money, and if they need that program to make money you've just blocked your chance to profit.

Books: THIS is the really ridiculous one. We have libraries people, books are free information. You shouldn't be allowed to charge for them simply because they're digital. Yes, people pay for them, but they'd pay for themselves if you put a Coka-Cola ad on the inside of the cover! Imagine how much money Hershey's would've made if they had an Ad in the back of a Harry Potter book!

[zaseo]

^Yeah the idea is petty scary. We would have the USA version of the great firewall of China.
When it comes to music people could actually just use the sound recorder on their computers if they don't won't to torrent.
As far as movies are concern people watch them once and will watch them every now and then. Let's be real. Isn't there like a bootleg movie guy on every corner regardless of where people live and how wealthy they are?
When it comes to programs or games many people just go to piratebay or something.

For websites like Wikipedia to shut down would suck. A common misconception about anyone can edit things is if some random person edits anything. When a random person edits something it only shows for their IP address. Now you have people checking info see if its credible and while Wikipedia itself would only give basic info it has many references that can be use. If Wikipedia shuts down all of the other Wikis with info such as .hack wikia, naruto wikia, runescape wikia etc would close down.

Its hard to think what would happen to the already failing economy if the Internet can't be use properly. There is too many things that would be screwed up by our government if this was to become law.

[Erranty]

No, I don't think economic concerns are an issue. It'd just revert back to the way we did it in the 90's, contact through email or phone, and selling through ebay.

The thing is, the Internet's supposed to be a medium for sharing information. By definition sharing isn't stealing. In order to steal something on the internet, it'd need to be locked behind some form of security, and not freely posted. Our biggest economic issue IMO is us actually paying for intangible objects that aren't services, like in game items, music that can't be freely redownloaded, and software that should've been incorporated into the computer to begin with so we can use certain files and decompressing systems (like WinRAR).

[(Phantom) Thief]

I believe my argument is flawed but think about it this way, the public has abused the net. Because of their actions the economy is damaged, and our agreements to uphold the rights of other nations are at risk. Individuals have a right to the oppertunity, saftey and entertaiment.

However the current America citizens continues to violate the reasons we are allowed those rights in the first. Because we want to be fair.The prirate of information goes against this. It is not financially fair for an author to be cheated from their chances of economic profit. Work done should be work payed. Unless chosen otherwise. Censorship is bad, horrible,somewhat foolish, a bit required and even discapable. In fact it is the very reason, I invest my time into learning more about .hack.

Yet... Nothing has really changed when it comes to how we use and obtain the information we have. As such maybe then the citizens do not deserve the right to that world just yet. I'd imagine it would be like prince taking the role of the king. Yes the part is meant to be passed but there is such a thing as being unprepared. According to Technology in Action ARPANET was created for research. And the same was expected of its follower The Internet.

If the law passes, then a massive portion of information gathering will be locked out. But if a massive portion of information gathering will be locked out, then people will be more wary of their respnisibilities with information. And if individuals are forced to be more responsible, their will be a rebel or the financial world will improve. If the financial world will improve and their is a rebel then more free market oppertunities will be avaiaible and the laws will be adapt to be fair to the citizens. At least that is what I think. But then again I have read those bills and I don't like ACTA, SOPA, or PIPA. >.<

[Haseo{Terror of Death}]

I'm not sure if this is related, but Megaupload is down.

[Erranty]

I believe my argument is flawed but think about it this way, the public has abused the net. Because of their actions the economy is damaged, and our agreements to uphold the rights of other nations are at risk. Individuals have a right to the oppertunity, saftey and entertaiment.

This abuse of the net isn't what caused economic problems. Its caused by large corporations and wealthy individuals not recirculating their money, and insurance companies basically collecting money for doing nothing (and when you actually need them you gotta fight tooth and nail for it). Those same insurance companies are one of the factors in the recent lack of jobs in the market, they charge companies more money for each worker they hire! That definitely doesn't promote employment, and the non-recirculating money decreases demand for products and increases inflation.

Another issue is that the price of these items already wasn't fair, and the expense of producing them wasn't worth it either. $600 million to make a hollywood blockbuster? It only took $140million to make Scott Pilgrim if I remember right and that movie was great! (Liked the books more though).

However the current America citizens continues to violate the reasons we are allowed those rights in the first. Because we want to be fair.The prirate of information goes against this. It is not financially fair for an author to be cheated from their chances of economic profit. Work done should be work payed. Unless chosen otherwise. Censorship is bad, horrible,somewhat foolish, a bit required and even discapable. In fact it is the very reason, I invest my time into learning more about .hack.

Yeah, Authors should get paid, Rappers should get paid, Movie makers and Actors SHOULD get paid. But that doesn't mean they should be getting millions of dollars for making shitty quality goods. People need to learn how to live within their means, and rich people need to learn how to not overindulge.

If someone wrote and amazing book or amazing songs, then priced them at something affordable, like $13 a book and $5-10 a CD (depending on the amount of songs on it), they would make more money because people would be more willing to actually pay for it! But it needs to have quality.

Yet... Nothing has really changed when it comes to how we use and obtain the information we have. As such maybe then the citizens do not deserve the right to that world just yet. I'd imagine it would be like prince taking the role of the king. Yes the part is meant to be passed but there is such a thing as being unprepared. According to Technology in Action ARPANET was created for research. And the same was expected of its follower The Internet.

The internet wasn't made by our Government. It was made by people, its an Invention. If we give our governments the right to decide what inventions are and aren't allowed we've literally ended the American dream.

If the law passes, then a massive portion of information gathering will be locked out. But if a massive portion of information gathering will be locked out, then people will be more wary of their respnisibilities with information. And if individuals are forced to be more responsible, their will be a rebel or the financial world will improve. If the financial world will improve and their is a rebel then more free market oppertunities will be avaiaible and the laws will be adapt to be fair to the citizens. At least that is what I think. But then again I have read those bills and I don't like ACTA, SOPA, or PIPA. >.<

I can't agree with any of that.

Ya know what, just watch this. It'll explain exactly what's happening, and it explains it CORRECTLY.

[Haseo{Terror of Death}]

Here's the link if you want to read it.

[hidora]

About the Megaupload thing, someone went and shut down the FBI and some other related websites lol



(not my screenshot)

[Maru]

I agree with you Erranty.
For me, SOPA and PIPA sucks. There is no reason for this... Internet isn't a copyright's big thief. It's information for everybody.
I know this isn't the best argument... but, how Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black got famous? Youtube, Internet. For real, If people just try to make a independent CD they would be just: a guy that tried to got famous.
Internet is important, and for real, what's the difference of take books in a library and record a tape songs on radio?
Paulo Coelho is a writer that I have a lot of respect. Now, is allowed download his books =)

[(Phantom) Thief]

Ya know what, just watch this. It'll explain exactly what's happening, and it explains it CORRECTLY.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h2dF-IsH0I

That was actually a nice video. I like it. In my economics's class our professor explains that the price of an item is determined a supply and demand from the public. The equilibrium is then calculated with the cost of resources for businesses and placed against the costs the public is willing to for a specific good. I don't understand it all but I believe that if the price of an item were too high, the demand for it would lower and the supplies available would increase forcing a change in the business. The introduction of free trade shifts the equilibrium point for supply and demand but it might be too harsh on the industries involved and if we demand every thing for free then no one wins. I can agree with lower prices. However isn't money is kept for the creators rights so they can continue to produce as they would naturally, advance their products and keep with the American promise of freedom and success? You are right. I think the evidence is more inconclusive than its seems. PIPA and SOPA can not support that, but neither will current use of digital medium. However what should the nation do?

[Erranty]

Well, recently there was a group that proposed to the movie industries that they put all their movies online, streaming, instead of to DVD. They could charge monthly fees like Netflix does, or even a bit higher if they offered extras like a free theater pass each month. But the movie industry turned it down. They turned down an extremely profitable option, that was dramatically harder to pirate (ie: streaming is harder to steal, and anyone who made programs that made it possible to steal could be sued for attacking them directly), and they did this for practically no reason at all other than poor foresight.

Your professor is right. Supply and Demand is what controls prices, but the starting price of an item is whatever the company wants to set it at. If they put a high quality item out, and only charge enough to make a 5% profit off it after the cost of production, instead of the current 30% average, they'll sell more of the product, turning that 5% into 30% by having 6x the sales.

People want physical copies of stuff, because they know how easy it is to lose digital media. You get a computer virus and bam, you have to redownload everything. If you had a digital CD you paid for through Wallmart or something, you'll have to go and buy it again. Having to pay for the same thing twice is just wrong, its actually one of the biggest things ruining our economy.

When I bought a physical copy of Borderlands: Game of the Year Edition, I expected to get what I paid for. Then I found out I had to download all the DLC, that my code only works once normally, and you had to download an "invalidator" to reset that and be able to download them again (maximum 4 times). I learned that too late. I got a virus on my comp, transferred all my important files to my external HDD, and then I found out I couldn't play my DLC again without buying it again. So I said "F*** you!" and just torrented a cracked version. There's nothing wrong with that at all, I already bought the game, I have a physical copy, if they say what I did was illegal I'll just point to my game and tell them this story, and how making people pay for the same thing twice already IS illegal.

[Maru]

Ya know what, just watch this. It'll explain exactly what's happening, and it explains it CORRECTLY.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h2dF-IsH0I

That was actually a nice video. I like it. In my economics's class our professor explains that the price of an item is determined a supply and demand from the public. The equilibrium is then calculated with the cost of resources for businesses and placed against the costs the public is willing to for a specific good. I don't understand it all but I believe that if the price of an item were too high, the demand for it would lower and the supplies available would increase forcing a change in the business.You are right. I think the evidence is more inconclusive than its seems. PIPA and SOPA can not support that, but neither will current use of digital medium. However what should the nation do?

This is the base of capitalism. A product doesn't worth the price of the material that was used to produce it. But worth the money that was paid to workers. And sure, plus the profit.
Well, my geography teacher said that :3
The only problem with these guys of PIPA and SOPA is: they want more profit (not to themselves, I guess '-' maybe someone is behind this idea — **** for real). It's natural think that if nobody can obtain something for free, they will buy it. This is a fact. But censor the Internet for this? What the Nyan? @.@' This don't have sence.
This looks like a dictatorship.

Just a curiosity:
In portuguese and spanish, SOPA means soup. The first time I saw this message: "against SOPA!" (on Facebook, and my friend is brazilian '-') I thought: what is that?? xD' (Please, don't think that I'm alienated ._.').
And PIPA means in portuguese and spanish: kite .-.

[zaseo]

They took down Megaupload and Megavideo. Sites like Mediafire, bittorrent, etc are next on the list.

[Erranty]

They took down Megaupload and Megavideo. Sites like Mediafire, bittorrent, etc are next on the list.

Actually, torrent sites are protected now. ThePirateBay already went to court over this, and they were apparently within their rights, the big companies can't do dick about them!

[zaseo]

They took down Megaupload and Megavideo. Sites like Mediafire, bittorrent, etc are next on the list.

Actually, torrent sites are protected now. ThePirateBay already went to court over this, and they were apparently within their rights, the big companies can't do dick about them!

Didn't know that but I know media sharing p2p sites might be future targets. Seems like we have ACTA to worry about on Jan 26 if I'm not mistaken.

[hidora]

If they take down 4shared I'm gonna be majorly pissed...

[Erranty]

If you use the The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, you can use this as reasoning.

1. Its legal to record, copy, and "share" Audio. (This doesn't cover visuals, programs, or text.)
2. As long as you do not profit monetarily from it, you are within the rights of the law.
3. While it states that the sharing would be with a "friend", it doesn't state what qualifies as a friend. This could be a mere acquaintance, or someone you've never met but talk with online. And since proving online interaction with a seeder, or 6000 seeders for that matter, is costly and time consuming, most companies and courts wont waste their time since they wouldn't recoup their costs by persecuting.

So if you hear a song on the radio, tape it, make a copy, share it with a friend, and then they make 3 copies to share with their friends, and the cycle continues then its all completely legal. The same with copying a CD you own, or copying it to your computer, giving it to a friend, and so on.

Most of the lawsuits can be completely thrown out just by stating that example and mentioning the AHRA of 92', but only if what you're being sued over is music.

[zerokoolpsx]

They took down Megaupload and Megavideo. Sites like Mediafire, bittorrent, etc are next on the list.

Bummed out the feds took Megaupload down.

[Erranty]

They took down Megaupload and Megavideo. Sites like Mediafire, bittorrent, etc are next on the list.

Bummed out the feds took Megaupload down.

Yeah, but did you see the bullsh*t charges they're using!?

An indictment unsealed today by the Department of Justice claims that MegaUpload has caused the entertainment industries more than $500 million in lost revenue and generated $175 million “in criminal proceeds.”

Two corporations – Megaupload Limited and Vestor Limited – were indicted by a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia on January 5th, 2012, and charged with “engaging in a racketeering conspiracy, conspiring to commit copyright infringement, conspiring to commit money laundering and two substantive counts of criminal copyright infringement.”

Conspiracy? So there's no proof?