In games why can't the AI be much smarter?

[zaseo]

In many games AI controlled characters are not that smart. Sure to your average player at first they can be a challenge, but after some time most people can kick the AI's ass with out a problem. For example in the SSB series the AI can be so retard. In SSB its very easy to own a lvl 9 as they are to predictable. In SSMB it got better, but still even the lvl 9 cpu can be retard for example Luigi for some odd reason don't recover with his up B move when he needs to gain vertical height. In SSBB the cpu think more in a fight, and do some of our human advance tactics like every once in a while a spike or something, but the main problem is they target the player much more, than other cpus if you where in a free for all playing with three cpus. Like they could have been lucky enough to get a smash ball, or the dragoon, and go after the player when they could kill other cpus. Why waste a smash ball or dragoon when its a on a player you likely won't KO?
In Tekken the cpu have gotten better over time, but nothing a experience player can't be. They are getting better at defending from attacks, doing combo, and juggles.
I'm know its in some games, but it would be nice to see AI learn how humans play, and learn to use our advance tactics. That why they can provide a good match for elite players. I would like to fightsome much smarter AI in games like any fighters or first person shooters.

[Erranty]

Honestly, I think you should try Armored Core 3: SILENT LINE. They have an AI engine that learns from you through training it. Eventually it stops making the mistakes that you do and starts kicking your ass. I'd love to see that put into new games, but the instant you use that system all your AI partners will get banned because they know all the "Cheap" combos and never do anything else.

[nobodyknows]

I haven't played AC3 yet.. maybe I should give it a go :0

[S1lentOp]

In games why can't the AI be much smarter?

Because AI is hard as f*ck to code. Seriously, have you ever tried writing an AI before? You're basically programming something's brain.

[Kyero Fox]

i just wish AI's werent so damn cheap in fighting games they seem to know what you're doing when you're doing it and how to counter it perfectly. THey pretty much read your controler

[Erranty]

i just wish AI's werent so damn cheap in fighting games they seem to know what you're doing when you're doing it and how to counter it perfectly. They pretty much read your controler

Stitch it to Port 2! lmao. (if you don't get the joke you shouldn't even be in the gaming section)

[nobodyknows]

i just wish AI's werent so damn cheap in fighting games they seem to know what you're doing when you're doing it and how to counter it perfectly. They pretty much read your controler

Stitch it to Port 2! lmao. (if you don't get the joke you shouldn't even be in the gaming section)

"no.. it can't be.. the vibration.. IT'S BACK.. NOOOO!!!!!" *explodes*

[AuraTwilight]

In games why can't the AI be much smarter?

Because AI is hard as f*ck to code. Seriously, have you ever tried writing an AI before? You're basically programming something's brain.

There's a motherf@cking reason why there's an ENTIRE BRANCH OF SCIENCE devoted to it, brah.

[Kuukai]

In SSB its very easy to own a lvl 9 as they are to predictable.

That's 1990s AI for you. The N64 has no processing power. In C&C on the PC, units would, you know, walk around obstacles. On the N64, units would walk endlessly into obstacles until you stopped them. This made the enemy fun to mess with, though...

In SSMB it got better, but still even the lvl 9 cpu can be retard for example Luigi for some odd reason don't recover with his up B move when he needs to gain vertical height. In SSBB the cpu think more in a fight, and do some of our human advance tactics like every once in a while a spike or something, but the main problem is they target the player much more, than other cpus if you where in a free for all playing with three cpus. Like they could have been lucky enough to get a smash ball, or the dragoon, and go after the player when they could kill other cpus. Why waste a smash ball or dragoon when its a on a player you likely won't KO?

That's called "cheating," and the computer has done that since the beginning of games. Japanese developers love it. The problem with recovery may be that they just gave up. Melee and onwards is all about the level gimmicks, you either need to teach the AI all the levels or just make some good estimation...

In Tekken the cpu have gotten better over time, but nothing a experience player can't be. They are getting better at defending from attacks, doing combo, and juggles.
I'm know its in some games, but it would be nice to see AI learn how humans play, and learn to use our advance tactics. That why they can provide a good match for elite players. I would like to fightsome much smarter AI in games like any fighters or first person shooters.

In 1-on-1 fighting games, the only thing preventing the AI from totally shredding you is developer sympathy. Part of the problem with AI here is getting it to mess up in a believable way. There's no reason they couldn't perfect guard, hit you with the best possible combo on recovery and then repeat, except that that wouldn't be any fun. The highest difficulty is where the developers drew the line between challenging and ridiculous.

I don't think modern AI research has much to do with fighting games. FPS's and the like, especially tactical ones, can benefit more from spatial navigation and stuff, but like I said even an "unbeatable" fighting game AI wouldn't be that hard... "Learning" AIs can sometimes lead to godawful results, like "the Creature" in Black & White.

[zaseo]

In SSB its very easy to own a lvl 9 as they are to predictable.

That's 1990s AI for you. The N64 has no processing power. In C&C on the PC, units would, you know, walk around obstacles. On the N64, units would walk endlessly into obstacles until you stopped them. This made the enemy fun to mess with, though...

In SSMB it got better, but still even the lvl 9 cpu can be retard for example Luigi for some odd reason don't recover with his up B move when he needs to gain vertical height. In SSBB the cpu think more in a fight, and do some of our human advance tactics like every once in a while a spike or something, but the main problem is they target the player much more, than other cpus if you where in a free for all playing with three cpus. Like they could have been lucky enough to get a smash ball, or the dragoon, and go after the player when they could kill other cpus. Why waste a smash ball or dragoon when its a on a player you likely won't KO?

That's called "cheating," and the computer has done that since the beginning of games. Japanese developers love it. The problem with recovery may be that they just gave up. Melee and onwards is all about the level gimmicks, you either need to teach the AI all the levels or just make some good estimation...

In Tekken the cpu have gotten better over time, but nothing a experience player can't be. They are getting better at defending from attacks, doing combo, and juggles.
I'm know its in some games, but it would be nice to see AI learn how humans play, and learn to use our advance tactics. That why they can provide a good match for elite players. I would like to fightsome much smarter AI in games like any fighters or first person shooters.

In 1-on-1 fighting games, the only thing preventing the AI from totally shredding you is developer sympathy. Part of the problem with AI here is getting it to mess up in a believable way. There's no reason they couldn't perfect guard, hit you with the best possible combo on recovery and then repeat, except that that wouldn't be any fun. The highest difficulty is where the developers drew the line between challenging and ridiculous.

I don't think modern AI research has much to do with fighting games. FPS's and the like, especially tactical ones, can benefit more from spatial navigation and stuff, but like I said even an "unbeatable" fighting game AI wouldn't be that hard... "Learning" AIs can sometimes lead to godawful results, like "the Creature" in Black & White.

A insane challenge like that would be good every once in awhile. We get experience best from fighting stronger AI, or players. We can only play a game to the best of our abilities, and try to find out attack speed, best way to defend, find out which frames give invincibility out of the 60 per second, be unpredictable, and so much more. I'm best in these fighting games SSB, Tekken, Naruto Clash of Ninja, and Ultimate Ninja. I'm only average in others such as Mortal Kombat Street Fighter, Soulcalibur etc.

[TheSorrow]

The "insanest" challenge in a fighting game like that, according to what Kuukai said, would be one where there's NO absolute way to defeat the enemy; the AI will be built in a way that it defends against any attack, counter every movement you do (by reading your input), and do everything you wouldn't be able to react against for they're attacking you with the button input of a computer...the ONLY way to beat that will be to carefully figure out some kind of attack pattern or fool the AI and attack in the slight weak points these will give, but more than challenging, it'll be boring and annoying. That won't be about abilities or skills anymore, it'll be pretty much like fighting against the biggest cheater/hacker that could ever exist, a cheater/hacker built by the actual developers.

I'd say that learning AIs are the best way for a game to have a very smart and challenging AI, that makes me fighting turn into an actual challenge of skills rather than just a futile attempt of trying to beat the impossible. These AI won't get any cheaper than a human could get, however, they won't make the mistakes a person could make, and perfection every hard combo and insane stunt that humans could hardly accomplish as they're limited by the agility of their fingers. But of course, such learning AI will have to be carefully managed too, and learn from the most skilled players and best strategies that can exist for the game, even strategies that the developers didn't think of...you're not going to like a fight against an AI that learned from human strategies, but only tries to grab you or knock you away, because that's all it could "learn" :/

An AI can be strong and insane, however, it can't be any more strong than it was programmed to, and so a person can learn the way they fight and try to fool it and beat it easily because it already knows what patterns it follows and is able to predict its next possible moves. But a learning AI won't be strong and leave it at that, but learn from it's own mistakes and the way the player fights, and that one will be able to counter attack the enemy and adapt to any new strategy the player will do in response; an AI that perfections itself by doing what the player does and merging it with it's own strategies and knowledges and use them to find the best tactics to block and counter what the enemy is doing, even if the enemy changes of attack strategy the next second. That's how i think the best AI in a fighting game would be, a very strong and challenging one, but not just a plain cheap one that will be completely impossible to defeat and won't do anything except kill you everytime you move.

[zaseo]

I wonder if cpu in brawl learn from the player. If you follow these links to youtube you see someone testing the way cpu act. If AI copied a player's ability then you should have many good rounds since if would be like fighting yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWcN4rtoJE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Me-0_5LjLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qcVyY5W_kQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzQKKi7YXfU
I been searching videos like these on Youtube comparing the growth of AI from older games to newer ones. I seen compare it sometimes to see the different in fights for example comparing AI from Tekken 3, 4 5, and 5 DR. Its gets so much better over time.