The mystery behind Ovan's lost weapon.

[Master ZED]

Okay im sorry but can sort-of run that by me again, in a shorter version because you totally lost me

What I basically said was (forgetting the ideas on what could have happened the first time Haseo completed the FoP) that Harald did have a role in Skeith's awakening; he stopped it cold by exploiting a flaw in Haseo's personality. Given enough power, there's almost nothing in the normal game that can make someone like him emotional enough to awaken his Epitaph, on top of which, Haseo would have no need to grow up as Ovan intended. Inner strength could be replaced by statistical strength, just as things once were in R:1 as Sora. Setting Haseo up to meet Azure Kite may not have been absolutely necessary, but it easily set up the quickest path to Ovan's goals.

And since when did the color scheme deal with the elemental properties of the weapons in The World R:2 at all?

Honeysuckles are Rare weapons; they can't be customized. Given the Lit part of Alkaid's gift seems to come from its Light Attack effect, it is possible that each Honeysuckle's color scheme is representative of its element, which would explain why the dual swords in the Painful Forest are colored differently (representing Shino's original gift that we never saw otherwise).

[shadow of skeith]

Wow, this topic is getting interesting. Very great responses guys. Well Keyekai, it's only a theory. It doesn't neccesarily have to follow the original format rules of elements and color schemes in weapons. He was just referring to the name, "Lit" Honeysuckle, in this case, Shino's original twin blade gift, but with "Lit" in the name that Alkaid led Haseo to get, maybe because of the "light" element in the weapon. Now, MasterZED, about your response about the Corebenik battle in //QUARATINE, if that was the case, then why did Corebenik use drain heart near the conclusion of the battle, if it was no where near taking damage? I clearly remember the phase cracking before Drain Heart was activated, and plus, Aura unleashed her own Data Drain to defeat Corbenik? I thought because of Kite's attack, he killed her, and that activated her "Birth". Now, to Lost Weapons. Just because Haseo's an adept rouge, it doesn't affect the fact that epitaph users can have the same class weapon. Like MasterZED stated, his lost weapon was created in a form that would suit Skeith, which is of course, the scythe. It's basically a dose of irony here. I mean come on, "Terror of death"? a "Scythe"? Endrance is another clear example, "The temptress", then he gets a Purplish pink blade called "Tempting Rose."

[Master ZED]

Now, MasterZED, about your response about the Corebenik battle in //QUARATINE, if that was the case, then why did Corebenik use drain heart near the conclusion of the battle, if it was no where near taking damage? I clearly remember the phase cracking before Drain Heart was activated, and plus, Aura unleashed her own Data Drain to defeat Corbenik? I thought because of Kite's attack, he killed her, and that activated her "Birth".

I always imagined it was more of a "screw this" moment. Morganna was already driven completely insane and wanted everyone to leave her alone at the very least if not conveniently die, but it was clearly taking too long by normal means. Better to just eradicate the lot of them. I believe the fact that she didn't do this from the very beginning represented the last shreds of mercy she had left... either that or a new, sadistic side that wanted to inflict as much pain as possible before the end of everyone else's lives.

Of course, I haven't seen the final battle of Quarantine in years, so if the eye itself had cracked (which the Wiki apparently agrees with by using the words "severely injured"), I'm pretty much wrong on that one. I should probably keep my mouth shut on Quarantine matters unless or until I play through the game again.

Also, I'm just calling what Aura did Data Drain because I don't think it has any other name. The Wiki refers to the attack by the same name as well.

[AuraTwilight]

Sure, but my theory on Cubia being Skeith's answer to the Rebirth program is off-topic here. I'll likely have to PM it to you since I doubt a Cubia origin topic is going to magically appear.

You can post it here, don't worry, I've checked.

1. Well, that's not exactly what I said. That was just a thought on what he could do if he couldn't create the conditions necessary for Shino to awaken, like what he apparently did for Ovan (whether Aura had a hand in that, or if Ovan was actually coming back on his own and Harald merely reunited the two for Ovan to deliver the news personally, that I don't know).

Ovan was able to come back partially due to his own will and partially due to his cooperation with the AIDA. It was Harald that allowed them to speak.

That doesn't mean he had nothing to do with Skeith's awakening however; the hacked 3rd form was really a curse designed to stall the Terror of Death's awakening as an Epitaph User, since now nothing could put enough of a scare into him to get the 1st Phase to awaken. Back in episode 6 for example, we see Skeith grumble in his sleep to get rid of a glitched light shower that endangered Tabby and Sakisaka, but nothing like that happens after the Painful Forest event. Ovan had to rid him of his statistical might when Yata's 100 PK idea failed, leading to the setup with the pursuer.

Oh, yea, I agree with that. I thought you were implying Harald's gift/curse was actively awakening Skeith somehow.

2. Shino was the first person to give Haseo Honeysuckle dual swords. Haseo remembered this when he won the Lit Honeysuckle from a boss on a field that Alkaid had brought him to. That's the only reason he knows what a Honeysuckle means (great devotion, to paraphrase it since I can't remember the first word of that). I don't believe Roots ever goes into this, and the subject is only brought up that one time in Reminisce, so its the hardest connection to make out of the three weapons we get to see at the Forest's end.

Again, correct. I forgot about that because it wasn't referenced in the anime, the stupid gits.

The color scheme is different from Shino's weapon, but I think that has to do with the elements of the blades (the Lit part of the name in Alkaid's comes from the Light Attack ability). I would guess Shino's may have had to do with the Fire element based on my recollection of the color scheme shown in Roots, but it's not like there's any statistical data on them, or if there is, I have no access to it.

At the very least, it wouldn't be the first inconsistent aesthetic change between the anime and games.

I always imagined it was more of a "screw this" moment. Morganna was already driven completely insane and wanted everyone to leave her alone at the very least if not conveniently die, but it was clearly taking too long by normal means. Better to just eradicate the lot of them. I believe the fact that she didn't do this from the very beginning represented the last shreds of mercy she had left... either that or a new, sadistic side that wanted to inflict as much pain as possible before the end of everyone else's lives.

Or desperation, since Aura's interference took away Corbenik's infinite HP.

Also, I'm just calling what Aura did Data Drain because I don't think it has any other name. The Wiki refers to the attack by the same name as well.

It's technically not Data Drain, but it's not worth arguing over.

[shadow of skeith]

So, the drain heart was just a desperation attempt by Morganna to destroy everyone opposing her in battle, since Corbenik's ultimate defense was destroyed by Aura's aid. Makes sense...But the whole, "Aura's data drain" threw me off a bit. I thought Rebirth was unleashed at that moment when she absorbed Kite's blow and then disentegrated into little fragments. That has to be logical, because after that event, the entire network was confirmed stable, by Helba's words, and the comatose victims were brought back. So, after reviewing a bit of //QUARANTINE here, all epitaphs lost some power, even though Corbenik wasn't Data Drained, but that lost data had to have been transfered into R:2 to make a lost weapon for the Corbenik epitaph user, unless, the "lost weapon itself was the rebirth program."

[Master ZED]

Sure, but my theory on Cubia being Skeith's answer to the Rebirth program is off-topic here. I'll likely have to PM it to you since I doubt a Cubia origin topic is going to magically appear.

You can post it here, don't worry, I've checked.

Well, alright... some of this might sound slightly insulting because I feel I have to retread old ground at times, but I feel like I have to so I don't miss a few details.

Like Aura's "Data Drain" (whatever it really is) and Corbenik's Rebirth, I believe Cubia is spawned by a similar near death program within Skeith, as the two represent opposite states of being (life and death). What originally started me on this theory was a line on Ovan's Wiki page, specifically:

According to an interview, Ovan's character was designed to be the exact opposite of Haseo.

Whether the wiki is right about there being an interview that stated this doesn't matter, there really aren't any similarities between Ovan and Haseo save for any personality quirks that might come about from AIDA <Tri-Edge>'s occasional influence. Their looks, their fighting styles, their attitudes, everything between the two is different up until the time that the Rebirth hits, at which point Haseo breaks the comparison in more ways than one, culminating with Xth Form.

Even the Phases are rather different, but the important part lies in what they represent. Corbenik the Rebirth represents new life, whereas Skeith enjoys living up to the "Terror of Death" moniker. To the ultimate end, Corbenik has the Rebirth program, which was meant to give Aura and Morganna new life as the ultimate AI, and obviously has other uses related to renewal. It would only make sense, then, that Skeith would have a program that brings the ultimate demise, a "Terror of Death" program if you will, to those successful in ending the first Phase. This is where Cubia comes from.

Cubia's behavior appears to be based on that of its user; the fact that it appears to have more in common with Tarvos the Avenger is purely circumstantial evidence created by its primary goal of eliminating that which causes it to be called forth. Morganna likely gave it to Skeith because he was the first line of defense. If any of the Phases were to fall first, it would surely be him, and if someone could destroy the eight Phases, it would be for the best for Cubia to eliminate the threat using the same mentality of the most bloodthirsty among the Cursed Wave. This is most likely the reason why it followed Aura around, but only attacked when Kite appeared (Skeith was following Aura, but Cubia's primary concern was with killing off Kite, and the conflict caused it to wait for him to show up). The fact that Cubia has always appeared as something of a monstrous grim reaper was also quite fitting (maybe the look was influenced by Skeith, who can say?).

Yes, it doesn't take on Skeith's role in XXXX in quite the same way (the Aura-stalking part is dropped), but even if you disregard it because it's clearly non-canon, the explanation is simple: the real Cubia is more beastlike than human in intelligence, while X-fourth Cubia is the opposite of that. This improved AI gave it the gifts of choice and free will.

Now if Skeith is the source, that explains Kite, but what about Haseo? A lot of people assume that Yata is right about it being the Anti-Existence or shadow of the Key of the Twilight, that the shadow only appears to creep after Aura's power when it is misused, but Cubia's behavior and even its appearance run counter to Yata's second idea in G.U.. That's because what he blurted out at first, that Cubia was the Anti-Existence of the Rebirth (in so many words), was the truth.

Ovan convinced Skeith to make Cubia appear when Haseo got hit by the Rebirth program in the Creator's Room, nearly taking the 1st Phase and his Epitaph User down with him. While Zelkova did save Haseo, it was already too late; Skeith had concluded it would die, and Cubia was spawned to take its place. At this point, the search for Ovan had begun. Cubia contained so much power out of necessity to counter that which gave it life that if it had been after the new "Key" (Haseo), it didn't have to wait. It could have come after him at nearly any time because a Gomora would catch him with absolute certainty, alerting the beast. This is why the network was flooding with Gomora, not because Cubia simply could, but because it thought it had to keep sending more scouts. Ovan was lost, sure, but he still held the power of the Rebirth, and so the search had to continue.

All media so far, with possible exception to the G.U. novels, Epitaph of Twilight, and LINK (I haven't read any of those nor have I seen spoilers in the wiki (the latter being the reason I know about G.U.+)), follow this same rule for the creation of the hidden one. For example (multiple .hack spoilers ahead):

SIGN: Skeith was not destroyed by the Net Slum area deletion, so no Cubia was created.
IMOQ: Kite killed Skeith, and Cubia immediately comes online and attacks, prompting Helba to forcefully withdraw Kite a second time again for his own safety.
XXXX: Same as IMOQ, though Cubia doesn't exactly attack until he recognizes Kite as the one holding the power responsible for (the reason behind) his creation.
Roots and Rebirth: Haseo was Data Drained by Azure Kite, but Skeith's life clearly wasn't jeopardized. No Cubia for Azure Kite.
G.U. in general: Until the final Tri-Edge battle, Haseo is never pushed so far that his life is hanging by a thread. The best point at which Cubia could have appeared prior to that was between Taihaku and AIDA <Victorian>, but if the attempted infection had been enough, the AIDA that caused the energy drain was also destroyed by Haseo. Without the individual entity to chase, Skeith had no reason to launch its most vicious "attack." Justice/Revenge had already been served.
Redemption: Ovan blasted Haseo with the Rebirth, unintentionally creating Cubia due to the life-threatening damage being at ground zero caused Skeith.
G.U.+: Kazumi Data Drains Haseo, stealing Skeith. This dangerous act prompts Skeith to respond with Cubia, who delivers judgment upon Kazumi for his actions. I should note that this is merely taken from the wiki; I won't know for sure what really happened in volume 4 until it comes out in the states next year, so I can't retort if I'm wrong here.
Trilogy: Haseo wasn't nearly torn apart by the Rebirth, in fact, he wasn't even fazed by it. As Haseo was never really that close to death, though he was beaten severely, no Cubia appeared.

End spoilers

So to my knowledge, there's no contradiction, even in non-canon media. Though I know full well that fact means nothing, I think it's a little telling of what CC2 thinks is the truth.

The shadow of the core of Kite's Cubia was very clearly that of himself, possibly a selfish, self-pitying version of himself if the fetal position means anything (perhaps why X-fourth Cubia exhibited both traits). As Haseo fought through to the core, Ovan's Cubia spawned shadows of him and his team to fight, apparently making a little use of whatever system is in place for creating Doppelganger (it wouldn't be surprising if Cubia gained or already had a few system abilities, whether they be from the power of the Rebirth or by design respectively). At the core itself however, we see a small Haseo atop Cubia Core's head. Going by IMOQ and Yata's hypothesis, this should cinch up that Skeith, as the new "key," is Cubia's target. This is the obvious conclusion to be made.

But think about what I said in an earlier post:

...I assume this is part of the play on Haseo and Ovan being exact opposites, Ovan's light of rebirth casting the shadow of death that creates Haseo.

I didn't say this just to sound cool. The original nickname for Skeith, the shadow of death, is true of Cubia in many ways. Cubia is the shadow of those that wrong Harald in his death by successfully attacking his creation, endangering Aura's world in some major way. Morganna changed this condition to destroying Skeith, or at least convincing Skeith of its imminent demise, when she split into the Eight Phases. The shadow at the core is that of the one who convinced Skeith to summon the hidden one. Therefore, given this and what I said at the beginning of this post, Haseo being at the core actually supports Ovan being the light that casts the shadow.

G.U. shows two ways Cubia could have finally died, the first when Ovan gave up Corbenik, and therefore the Rebirth, long enough for Cubia to acknowledge the loss of power and die. The second was obviously Haseo launching a final attack at the core, putting more cracks in it before it finally petrified and broke apart.

I think showing both may have been necessary to the story though. Cubia, just like before, had picked up where Skeith, or rather, Haseo, had left off. You could say that Cubia was also his shadow, but in a symbolic sense in that everything that was wrong with Haseo prior to his growing up throughout G.U. was suddenly manifested as the hidden one:

- His inability to care about the concerns of others, or rather, his hideous amount of strength allowing him the luxury of not having to listen to anyone else.
- His own lack of concern about the side effects of his violent path.
- His lust for revenge against Tri-Edge blinding him from the truth.
- His relentless nature being so strong that he just goes on and on even if it's down the wrong path.
- His overall selfish nature tearing his world apart (Cubia was very literal with this, but Haseo lost friends and other potential allies, and gained only enemies).

and so forth. Haseo "defeating" Cubia was a way to visually show us that he had finally grown up and left behind the "Terror of Death" for good. Technically, Ovan was the one that defeated it, but that makes Haseo's apparent victory no less important, hence the short clip where Haseo and Ovan both are dealing Cubia the final blow. One was finishing off his inner demons, the other ending the actual demon. The damage done to the carcass in that attack wasn't important.

This likely has some holes in it, as it took me a bit to put it into words. Reading this finally cleared up my remaining questions on its behavior, so the last part about how Cubia's second death was portrayed, the parts about why Kite's Cubia acts the way it does and how this is reinforced by evidence given by Ovan's is brand new; the latter may be completely wrong (and I think I deleted part of it for being unimportant). Questions are probably required for this to make sense. I may even have to completely rewrite it. :\

(now that I'm done, I'm not sure if the program that creates Cubia would actually be called Terror of Death since Harald created it, not Morganna. As the Dual Gunner class was created by Skeith, and Judgment was clearly a reference to the ice spell it used in Infection, perhaps Justice, the greater of the two DG Arts in pure strength (disregarding usefulness), is the true name of the Cubia summoning program. Kinda weird to think about Cubia being Harald's "avatar" of justice though, it more than likely was just a name developed for the Art by Skeith being on the "good" side this time around. Just a stray thought I couldn't fit in, nothing more)

Ovan was able to come back partially due to his own will and partially due to his cooperation with the AIDA. It was Harald that allowed them to speak.

The first part is no surprise, but the latter is. Do you think it was the result of a new, real friendship between Ovan and AIDA, a sense of responsibility on the part of the uncorrupted anomaly, simply kindness for the sake of kindness, or what?

Again, correct. I forgot about that because it wasn't referenced in the anime, the stupid gits.

Agreed. With the importance of the symbolism there, especially with how misleading Taihaku's result can be, you'd think there would have been at least a small clue somewhere. A very large chunk of the fanbase believes both weapons were just that.

Or desperation, since Aura's interference took away Corbenik's infinite HP.

See, that's why I needed to leave out Quarantine (and probably shouldn't have touched IMOQ in the above). I didn't think that the destruction of Supreme Defense may have caused more harm to Corbenik than was immediately obvious. :\

[AuraTwilight]

.But the whole, "Aura's data drain" threw me off a bit. I thought Rebirth was unleashed at that moment when she absorbed Kite's blow and then disentegrated into little fragments. That has to be logical, because after that event, the entire network was confirmed stable, by Helba's words, and the comatose victims were brought back. So, after reviewing a bit of //QUARANTINE here, all epitaphs lost some power, even though Corbenik wasn't Data Drained, but that lost data had to have been transfered into R:2 to make a lost weapon for the Corbenik epitaph user, unless, the "lost weapon itself was the rebirth program."

As I said, it's possible there is no Corbenic Lost Weapon. As for the network stabilization after Quarantine, that was AURA'S power, not Corbenic's.

Like Aura's "Data Drain" (whatever it really is) and Corbenik's Rebirth, I believe Cubia is spawned by a similar near death program within Skeith, as the two represent opposite states of being (life and death).

Cubia was spawned to antagonize Haseo's Xth Form, since it was essentially the Key of the Twilight, comparable to Godhood and thus a threat to Aura's security.

To the ultimate end, Corbenik has the Rebirth program, which was meant to give Aura and Morganna new life as the ultimate AI, and obviously has other uses related to renewal. It would only make sense, then, that Skeith would have a program that brings the ultimate demise, a "Terror of Death" program if you will, to those successful in ending the first Phase. This is where Cubia comes from.

Incorrect. The Rebirth was a reset button that Corbenic was given incase **** went TOTALLY WRONG, and Cubia has absolutely no relation to Skeith, and is an unrelated security program Harald created.

Cubia's behavior appears to be based on that of its user; the fact that it appears to have more in common with Tarvos the Avenger is purely circumstantial evidence created by its primary goal of eliminating that which causes it to be called forth. Morganna likely gave it to Skeith because he was the first line of defense. If any of the Phases were to fall first, it would surely be him, and if someone could destroy the eight Phases, it would be for the best for Cubia to eliminate the threat using the same mentality of the most bloodthirsty among the Cursed Wave. This is most likely the reason why it followed Aura around, but only attacked when Kite appeared (Skeith was following Aura, but Cubia's primary concern was with killing off Kite, and the conflict caused it to wait for him to show up). The fact that Cubia has always appeared as something of a monstrous grim reaper was also quite fitting (maybe the look was influenced by Skeith, who can say?).

Morganna has no control or influence over Cubia, and neither does Skeith. Cubia is an unrelated force that operates completely independently as Za Warudo's ultimate antibody.

Now if Skeith is the source, that explains Kite, but what about Haseo? A lot of people assume that Yata is right about it being the Anti-Existence or shadow of the Key of the Twilight, that the shadow only appears to creep after Aura's power when it is misused, but Cubia's behavior and even its appearance run counter to Yata's second idea in G.U.. That's because what he blurted out at first, that Cubia was the Anti-Existence of the Rebirth (in so many words), was the truth.

People believe he's a shadow to protect Aura because the developers said so in .hack//Truth. Cubia is not the Anti-Existence of the Rebirth, as it did not threaten Aura in any manner.

Ovan convinced Skeith to make Cubia appear when Haseo got hit by the Rebirth program in the Creator's Room, nearly taking the 1st Phase and his Epitaph User down with him. While Zelkova did save Haseo, it was already too late; Skeith had concluded it would die, and Cubia was spawned to take its place. At this point, the search for Ovan had begun. Cubia contained so much power out of necessity to counter that which gave it life that if it had been after the new "Key" (Haseo), it didn't have to wait. It could have come after him at nearly any time because a Gomora would catch him with absolute certainty, alerting the beast. This is why the network was flooding with Gomora, not because Cubia simply could, but because it thought it had to keep sending more scouts. Ovan was lost, sure, but he still held the power of the Rebirth, and so the search had to continue.

What does Ovan have to accomplish by prompting Cubia's revival, when his only goal was to unleash the Rebirth, eradicate AIDA, and save Aina? It certainly wasn't self-preservation, as Ovan would've been content with his fate. On that note, Skeith didn't feel any nihilistic tendencies. Hell, before Zelkova saved Haseo, Skeith decided he was going to leave and find a new player to merge with. Skeith was in no danger whatsoever.

All media so far, with possible exception to the G.U. novels, Epitaph of Twilight, and LINK (I haven't read any of those nor have I seen spoilers in the wiki (the latter being the reason I know about G.U.+)), follow this same rule for the creation of the hidden one. For example (multiple .hack spoilers ahead):

This is merely because Skeith is the threshold. When Skeith died by Kite's hand, it was the first "Dangerous" use of the Twilight Bracelet, prompting Cubia's physical manifestation, though Cubia had always existed since the Bracelet's acquiring, allegedly contributing to infected areas and monsters. His manifestation in counterance to Haseo was because Haseo became the re-embodiment of the Key of the Twilight, and had all the powers of Morganna, forcing Cubia to go berzerk.

I didn't say this just to sound cool. The original nickname for Skeith, the shadow of death, is true of Cubia in many ways. Cubia is the shadow of those that wrong Harald in his death by successfully attacking his creation, endangering Aura's world in some major way. Morganna changed this condition to destroying Skeith, or at least convincing Skeith of its imminent demise, when she split into the Eight Phases. The shadow at the core is that of the one who convinced Skeith to summon the hidden one. Therefore, given this and what I said at the beginning of this post, Haseo being at the core actually supports Ovan being the light that casts the shadow.

Nice poetic explanation, but it's not correct. Cubia is Haseo's shadow, not Ovan's, or it would have an Ovan mirror. By your theory, IMOQ Cubia would've had a fetal Balmung inside. Morganna, as I've already told you, cannot control Cubia.

G.U. shows two ways Cubia could have finally died, the first when Ovan gave up Corbenik, and therefore the Rebirth, long enough for Cubia to acknowledge the loss of power and die. The second was obviously Haseo launching a final attack at the core, putting more cracks in it before it finally petrified and broke apart.

Incorrect. The two methods were for Haseo to give up his Xth Form, and thus he and Skeith vanish from Za Warudo forever, or for all eight Epitaphs to pool their powers together, creating "God" and entering the command, "GTFO"

I think showing both may have been necessary to the story though. Cubia, just like before, had picked up where Skeith, or rather, Haseo, had left off. You could say that Cubia was also his shadow, but in a symbolic sense in that everything that was wrong with Haseo prior to his growing up throughout G.U. was suddenly manifested as the hidden one:

- His inability to care about the concerns of others, or rather, his hideous amount of strength allowing him the luxury of not having to listen to anyone else.
- His own lack of concern about the side effects of his violent path.
- His lust for revenge against Tri-Edge blinding him from the truth.
- His relentless nature being so strong that he just goes on and on even if it's down the wrong path.
- His overall selfish nature tearing his world apart (Cubia was very literal with this, but Haseo lost friends and other potential allies, and gained only enemies).

You're really reaching here.

Haseo "defeating" Cubia was a way to visually show us that he had finally grown up and left behind the "Terror of Death" for good.

The acquiring of Xth Form was already symbolic of that, when Skeith tried to leave; he doesn't need to affirm it again.

Technically, Ovan was the one that defeated it, but that makes Haseo's apparent victory no less important, hence the short clip where Haseo and Ovan both are dealing Cubia the final blow. One was finishing off his inner demons, the other ending the actual demon. The damage done to the carcass in that attack wasn't important.

Technically it was the entire Infinity Eight, channeling through Haseo.

(now that I'm done, I'm not sure if the program that creates Cubia would actually be called Terror of Death since Harald created it, not Morganna. As the Dual Gunner class was created by Skeith, and Judgment was clearly a reference to the ice spell it used in Infection, perhaps Justice, the greater of the two DG Arts in pure strength (disregarding usefulness), is the true name of the Cubia summoning program. Kinda weird to think about Cubia being Harald's "avatar" of justice though, it more than likely was just a name developed for the Art by Skeith being on the "good" side this time around. Just a stray thought I couldn't fit in, nothing more)

Why does the Cubia summoning need a name? Why not just "Cubia"?

The first part is no surprise, but the latter is. Do you think it was the result of a new, real friendship between Ovan and AIDA, a sense of responsibility on the part of the uncorrupted anomaly, simply kindness for the sake of kindness, or what?

Yes, that and the AIDA are interested in the evolutionary possibilities of Ovan having conquered death, in much the same way Aura did. The AIDA obviously picked up on the connection.

[Master ZED]

Cubia was spawned to antagonize Haseo's Xth Form, since it was essentially the Key of the Twilight, comparable to Godhood and thus a threat to Aura's security.

Cubia shouldn't respond to a power granted by Aura in the first place if its trying to protect her (referring to Kite here). Hell, why didn't it immediately take physical form like it did in Haseo's case and kick Skeith's ass during the events of ZERO, considering how bad a threat the Terror of Death is? It didn't have to wait for Kite to do its job for it then try to kill him in a jealous fit of rage. Had Aura failed to deliver the Book of Twilight, who knows if she would ever have been born, yet letting Skeith beat the crap out of her and Data Draining her to pieces wasn't putting her in any danger whatsoever.

Morganna didn't influence Cubia at all? Riiiight... you keep telling yourself that. Guarding Aura by leaving her in a state of unlife sounds exactly like what Morganna was looking for, and Cubia certainly wasn't in the way of that. But saving her? Restoring her segments? Yeah, she needs to be guarded from the dirty human filth. Cubia's no protector, just an anti-flesh bigot.

(seriously, if Cubia was concerned about Aura's security and not hunting down Kite specifically, I'm not seeing it. Besides, that would make Aura a moron for following Kite and BlackRose to Harald's room, wouldn't it, knowing Cubia would follow her and fulfill her doomsday prophecy? Or would that make her wise because the bracelet, killing Corbenik, would end The World?)

Incorrect. The Rebirth was a reset button that Corbenic was given incase **** went TOTALLY WRONG, and Cubia has absolutely no relation to Skeith, and is an unrelated security program Harald created.

So Cubia isn't part of The World then? Also, why would the Rebirth program NOT be part of how Aura was reborn? That doesn't make any sense. Why would such a dangerous and far-reaching reset be necessary if it wasn't meant to be focused by Aura?

Morganna has no control or influence over Cubia, and neither does Skeith. Cubia is an unrelated force that operates completely independently as Za Warudo's ultimate antibody.

Initial influence aside, I do agree that Cubia acts independently. The problem is that it seems to follow Skeith's path, which is... well, I was originally going to say weird in the first post, and I still think it is.

People believe he's a shadow to protect Aura because the developers said so in .hack//Truth. Cubia is not the Anti-Existence of the Rebirth, as it did not threaten Aura in any manner.

But Cubia didn't show up when Haseo met Aura. I'm guessing this is because she wasn't actually in Hulle Granz, right?

What does Ovan have to accomplish by prompting Cubia's revival, when his only goal was to unleash the Rebirth, eradicate AIDA, and save Aina? It certainly wasn't self-preservation, as Ovan would've been content with his fate. On that note, Skeith didn't feel any nihilistic tendencies. Hell, before Zelkova saved Haseo, Skeith decided he was going to leave and find a new player to merge with. Skeith was in no danger whatsoever.

I never meant that he did it on purpose, though with his knowledge of The World, he may have seen it coming and took the chance anyway. Whatever the case, he never intended to spawn Cubia and I never said anything to that effect. He is responsible for it to some extent though, whether you look at it my way (he injured Skeith, who created Cubia in response) or by accepted theory (Ovan injured Haseo to the point that he nearly fell comatose, and when Zelkova saved him, he took some liberties with Haseo's PC that allowed Skeith and Haseo to meet, creating Xth Form).

And what do you mean before? Zelkova picked up Haseo, then he had the conversation with Skeith, and that's when Haseo gained Xth Form in one of Zelkova's... labs or whatever that was (I don't want to know). Were we shown those events out of sequence? I assumed the decision to quit was made on the spur of the moment since that didn't happen until after Zelkova's repairs were complete. Once those were done, everything else about Haseo's recovery lay with him and Skeith sorting things out between each other.

This is merely because Skeith is the threshold. When Skeith died by Kite's hand, it was the first "Dangerous" use of the Twilight Bracelet, prompting Cubia's physical manifestation, though Cubia had always existed since the Bracelet's acquiring, allegedly contributing to infected areas and monsters. His manifestation in counterance to Haseo was because Haseo became the re-embodiment of the Key of the Twilight, and had all the powers of Morganna, forcing Cubia to go berzerk.

Lets say those Epitaph items represent an entire Phase each, though I don't believe they do. Why does Cubia give up after being beaten once? A threat this severe doesn't go away because the target was victorious one time. I can understand the Dawn Bracelet in your theory (just saying your because it's easier, I don't mean anything else by it) since Kite never creates enough damage to provoke Cubia again, but in Haseo's case, it falls flat. I'm sorry, Cubia should have continuously respawned for each time it was defeated until Haseo had to delete his character by any means necessary, like a virus. It's not like Harald would make one copy and just leave it at that, there would have been a backup somewhere for a security system protecting Aura. Cubia spawned on its own without a trigger, therefore it should be able to spawn again and again for as long as Xth Form exists.

It IS silly that Cubia would only spawn once upon Skeith's death, granted, and by my theory, we can pin that on Morganna for not taking the route the rest of the .hack community believes Harald did. By yours, Cubia is somehow independent of The World, giving Harald no excuse not to create a neverending loop of damnation until Cubia gets what it wants. What kind of message does that send? Oh you beat my system, boo hoo for me, I guess you can do whatever you want to my daughter who I wasn't even trying to defend in the first place. Like hell, that's completely asinine! This isn't physical reality! Software can be reproduced with four keystrokes! Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. Done. Oh, you beat the one, well let's try that again, and again, until the message gets through your head that you can't f**king win!

Seriously, that's exactly how I would have done it... but I know a thing or two about making nightmare fiends. Invincibility is very easy to create. >_>

Nice poetic explanation, but it's not correct. Cubia is Haseo's shadow, not Ovan's, or it would have an Ovan mirror. By your theory, IMOQ Cubia would've had a fetal Balmung inside. Morganna, as I've already told you, cannot control Cubia.

You misunderstood entirely. Let's try this again.

1. Cubia contains the shadow of that which spawned it. Whoever doesn't believe this is an idiot.
2. The opposite of light is the shadow it creates. Light and dark are two entirely different things in the .hack universe, are they not?
3. Life is the opposite of death. On and off are opposites as well. I think we can agree there.
(I'm oversimplifying it to the point of being insulting to you, yes, but you're definitely not the only one who misunderstood that paragraph, and I fear this may be necessary... just bear with me)
4. Ovan is the opposite of Haseo. Everything about one tends to run counter to the other at a basic level, from the way they think and act right down to their clothes. I'd be surprised if both liked the same type of chicken meat.
5. Therefore, Haseo being at the core can only mean that Cubia was responding to the Rebirth. Cubia is now Ovan's shadow, just as Haseo was at the time of the Rebirth.

Honestly, I don't think shadow means "a dark figure or image cast on the ground or some surface by a body intercepting light" in the strictest sense when it comes to the image in the core. I think Kite's Cubia may have been a "Taihaku in the FoP"-type case meant to throw us off. After all, Cubia itself is what becomes painfully simple to understand by my theory:

1. Skeith spawns Cubia at death.
2. Cubia is destroyed when that which spawned it is destroyed or given up... for a time.

Once you know that, Cubia is rather meaningless. I believe this is why Ovan becoming lost was a great device for the Cubia scenario since Ovan likely knew this and so did Yata and Zelkova. Otherwise, it would have run something like this:

Ovan: Haseo...
Haseo: Yeah Ovan?
Ovan: Hold my Epitaph for just a bit.
Haseo: ...alright.
* Haseo now has Corbenik.
* A small amount of time passes.
Ovan: That's all I needed.
* Ovan now has Corbenik.
Haseo: What was the point of that?
Ovan: I needed to turn off the light for a second. The fly... it was becoming a nuisance.
Haseo: ...?
END

and it would have been one of the top 25 most terrible RPG endings ever... or the whole thing would have been a 4koma and we'd never know how pivotal a moment in .hack history it actually was.

Incorrect. The two methods were for Haseo to give up his Xth Form, and thus he and Skeith vanish from Za Warudo forever, or for all eight Epitaphs to pool their powers together, creating "God" and entering the command, "GTFO"

Actually, the first one would have been the same scenario as above in reverse (with someone else filling in for Ovan of course), or just Zelkova doing a second round of surgery, but I digress. The second one doesn't make sense either, since Cubia should be a greater force than the full power of Morganna. It would have to be by design to run counter to the "Key." However, you could say that what I stated for Kite, that Cubia was driven off because it underestimated Kite's own power, looking only at the bracelet, was true here as well for all eight Epitaph Users' individual wills. That might do it, but Ovan throws this for a loop because one person wouldn't add that much more power. He could have been the tipping point, but the way that scene was depicted makes it too extraordinary.

You're really reaching here.

Yeah, I know, that was one of the new parts. It may be two months before I get that not to sound like drivel. It was off-topic anyway.

Why does the Cubia summoning need a name? Why not just "Cubia"?

Why did the Rebirth and Propagation programs need a name, for that matter? Terror of Death is appropriate for what Cubia is, and Justice would work for Harald's purposes, whatever they actually were.

[Tokimatsu]

after 2 hours reading the forum...
i tought (just my tought) Ovan's lost weapon is his barrel-like thing in his left arm,and the axe like weapon is a spin drake that posessed by AIDA,if the axe is a lost weapon... why i looked so normal with no neon effect like atoli's staff and etc.
when Ovan meet Azure Knights the lock of the barrel lighted up right???
...
...
...
..
.

well,just my opinion.LOL

[shadow of skeith]

after 2 hours reading the forum...
i tought (just my tought) Ovan's lost weapon is his barrel-like thing in his left arm,and the axe like weapon is a spin drake that posessed by AIDA,if the axe is a lost weapon... why i looked so normal with no neon effect like atoli's staff and etc.
when Ovan meet Azure Knights the lock of the barrel lighted up right???
...
...
...
..
.

well,just my opinion.LOL

lol. Yeah, MasterZED and AuraTwilight are really going at it, but at the same time, unleashing loads of information about the series. This is working to my favor. Sorry Tokimatsu, but the barrel wasn't the lost weapon, neither was the axe that looked like spin drake. I don't know how it was created, but the purpose of it was to keep the AIDA in his left arm under control. The axe that looks like spin drake, was just another limb for the AIDA. If you closely look whenever you see Ovan in action in his "Tri-edge" form, that weapon is taped on his hand, which means, he couldn't let go of it. So far in this forum, the lost weapon for Ovan is drawing closely to the "Doesn't exsist" terms.

[AuraTwilight]

Cubia shouldn't respond to a power granted by Aura in the first place if its trying to protect her (referring to Kite here). Hell, why didn't it immediately take physical form like it did in Haseo's case and kick Skeith's ass during the events of ZERO, considering how bad a threat the Terror of Death is? It didn't have to wait for Kite to do its job for it then try to kill him in a jealous fit of rage. Had Aura failed to deliver the Book of Twilight, who knows if she would ever have been born, yet letting Skeith beat the crap out of her and Data Draining her to pieces wasn't putting her in any danger whatsoever.

Cubia only responds to humans who gain "The Truth" (Key of the Twilight). Since Skeith is part of the system, Cubia has to response to it, as Aura is not actually in any DANGER, just her growth. Cubia is also, apparently, not programmed very well, since it's attacked Harald on atleast one occasion. But given Morganna, it's pretty obvious Harald isn't as good at programming AI as we tend to believe, and Cubia only manifested after Skeith's death because only then did Kite grow powerful enough to warrant a physical manifestation. Until that point, he was suspicious, but not worth anything more than keeping tabs on, but when you eff with a Phase, and thus Morganna's mother, and thus Aura's ability to be born, Cubia responds. Also, Cubia is a beast, it isn't capable of the deductive reasoning you just used.

Morganna didn't influence Cubia at all? Riiiight... you keep telling yourself that. Guarding Aura by leaving her in a state of unlife sounds exactly like what Morganna was looking for, and Cubia certainly wasn't in the way of that. But saving her? Restoring her segments? Yeah, she needs to be guarded from the dirty human filth. Cubia's no protector, just an anti-flesh bigot.

Sorry, but the words of the developers override your own. Cubia isn't capable of understanding Kite's intentions, will, desires, or so forth, whether good or bad; only that he COULD hurt Aura, and Cubia responds every time they meet because Cubia knows that if Kite tried, he could delete Aura with the Bracelet. Morganna has no influence, but she reaps the benefits anyway. Cubia is perfectly willing to let Aura stay stagnant and never grow or evolve, so long as she's still able to live. In that sense, Cubia and Morganna are very similar, and although they have no alliance, both benefit from impeding Kite's progress and keeping Aura in check.

(seriously, if Cubia was concerned about Aura's security and not hunting down Kite specifically, I'm not seeing it. Besides, that would make Aura a moron for following Kite and BlackRose to Harald's room, wouldn't it, knowing Cubia would follow her and fulfill her doomsday prophecy? Or would that make her wise because the bracelet, killing Corbenik, would end The World?)

Cubia was concerned about both, and if Kite became powerful enough, Cubia would've attacked him with or without Aura's meeting. Though even if Aura was responsible, she technically made the right choice, as her birth can only come about through Kite losing the Bracelet, and thus Aura being the one to die and be reborn. She did not know this at the time, of course, but ultimately her and Kite's actions, along with Cubia's involvement, created the only path that would've succeeded in defeating Morganna, saving everyone, and allowing Aura to be born. (It's worth noting that this was all a big stroke of luck and emotional whim, as Aura did not shield Corbenic out of a planned attempt to take out Morganna and finish her birth; she was acting purely on childish love and instinct and was protecting her mother with her own body so that she wouldn't die. This impulsive, pure, love and selflessness with no ulterior plan or motive is what allowed Aura to complete herself, surpass Morganna, and acheive wisdom, knowledge, purity, and compassion that humans as a whole are not capable of, effectively making Aura a Christ/Buddha-like figure.)

So Cubia isn't part of The World then? Also, why would the Rebirth program NOT be part of how Aura was reborn? That doesn't make any sense. Why would such a dangerous and far-reaching reset be necessary if it wasn't meant to be focused by Aura?

How the hell do you get "not part of The World" out of "Unrelated to Skeith?" The Rebirth was created incase something went horribly wrong, such as important code of Aura's being permanently deleted and such, intended to reboot the internet to allow Aura and Morganna to try again. (Lol insert Karmic Samsara/Maya allusions here)

It was Aura's own power, not Corbenic's, that set everything right in the ending of Quarantine. That was the POINT. Though Morganna probably would've unleashed it to reboot the network and probably try and reconstitute the Phases after binding Aura and defeating Kite, I don't know.

Initial influence aside, I do agree that Cubia acts independently. The problem is that it seems to follow Skeith's path, which is... well, I was originally going to say weird in the first post, and I still think it is.

Coincidence and twists of fate only. .hack's universe are full of them.

But Cubia didn't show up when Haseo met Aura. I'm guessing this is because she wasn't actually in Hulle Granz, right?

It was Aura's own power keeping him back, since Gommorah's didn't manifest in Hulle Granz. Post-Quarantine Aura's power is absolute, and she can do whatever the hell she wants. The only reason she didn't just shut Cubia's **** ass down entirely was to allow humanity to not rely on her and to find their own solutions to their problems, which is the reason she went to sleep and vanished anyway.

I never meant that he did it on purpose, though with his knowledge of The World, he may have seen it coming and took the chance anyway. Whatever the case, he never intended to spawn Cubia and I never said anything to that effect. He is responsible for it to some extent though, whether you look at it my way (he injured Skeith, who created Cubia in response) or by accepted theory (Ovan injured Haseo to the point that he nearly fell comatose, and when Zelkova saved him, he took some liberties with Haseo's PC that allowed Skeith and Haseo to meet, creating Xth Form).

Fair enough.

And what do you mean before? Zelkova picked up Haseo, then he had the conversation with Skeith, and that's when Haseo gained Xth Form in one of Zelkova's... labs or whatever that was (I don't want to know). Were we shown those events out of sequence? I assumed the decision to quit was made on the spur of the moment since that didn't happen until after Zelkova's repairs were complete. Once those were done, everything else about Haseo's recovery lay with him and Skeith sorting things out between each other.

I didn't mean to imply out if sequence. Though he was picked up, while on the Net Slum Tartarga, Haseo was still broken and on the verge of falling into a coma and so forth. Skeith was going to leave and find a new partner because Haseo's personality doesn't fit "The Terror of Death's" requirements anymore, and Haseo basically went "**** where you goin'?" Held on, and the two reconciled at a spiritual level that allowed their power to intermingle. Zelkova capitalized on this and gave it a physical form that can manifest in Za Warudo, while simultaniously repairing Haseo's PC and bringing him back to consciousness.

Lets say those Epitaph items represent an entire Phase each, though I don't believe they do. Why does Cubia give up after being beaten once? A threat this severe doesn't go away because the target was victorious one time.

The idea was that all of the Epitaphs working together were able to form a "God" power from their combined strength to rule the internet, and were basically able to reprogram Cubia to make Haseo an "exception" on the list. Possibly by tricking Cubia into thinking it was Aura giving the message.

It IS silly that Cubia would only spawn once upon Skeith's death, granted, and by my theory, we can pin that on Morganna for not taking the route the rest of the .hack community believes Harald did. By yours, Cubia is somehow independent of The World, giving Harald no excuse not to create a neverending loop of damnation until Cubia gets what it wants. What kind of message does that send? Oh you beat my system, boo hoo for me, I guess you can do whatever you want to my daughter who I wasn't even trying to defend in the first place. Like hell, that's completely asinine! This isn't physical reality! Software can be reproduced with four keystrokes! Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. Done. Oh, you beat the one, well let's try that again, and again, until the message gets through your head that you can't f**king win!

Chill out, dude, and listen before going on a rant. It's not that they deleted Cubia or any such nonsense, but tricked Cubia into giving them a "pass" (or by saying, "This is not the Xth Form you are looking for" Either idea works. XD) Thus, with no reason to piss up a storm, Cubia's physical incarnation crumbled.

1. Cubia contains the shadow of that which spawned it. Whoever doesn't believe this is an idiot.
2. The opposite of light is the shadow it creates. Light and dark are two entirely different things in the .hack universe, are they not?
3. Life is the opposite of death. On and off are opposites as well. I think we can agree there.
(I'm oversimplifying it to the point of being insulting to you, yes, but you're definitely not the only one who misunderstood that paragraph, and I fear this may be necessary... just bear with me)
4. Ovan is the opposite of Haseo. Everything about one tends to run counter to the other at a basic level, from the way they think and act right down to their clothes. I'd be surprised if both liked the same type of chicken meat.
5. Therefore, Haseo being at the core can only mean that Cubia was responding to the Rebirth. Cubia is now Ovan's shadow, just as Haseo was at the time of the Rebirth.

Yes, but after the final confrontation between Haseo and Ovan, the two are no longer shadows and parallels to each other; the connection wouldn't be made anymore. Besides, Cubia DOES NOT have the symbolic, abstract reasoning to think "Hm, Let me oppose this guy by reflecting his shadow as his DUETAGONIST HASEO LOLOLOLOL" If it was opposing Ovan, it would have a shadowed Ovan core. Haseo and Ovan being literary foils does not mean that an emotionless, objective system would see the relationship. Also, the developers say you're wrong.

Honestly, I don't think shadow means "a dark figure or image cast on the ground or some surface by a body intercepting light" in the strictest sense when it comes to the image in the core. I think Kite's Cubia may have been a "Taihaku in the FoP"-type case meant to throw us off. After all, Cubia itself is what becomes painfully simple to understand by my theory:

1. Skeith spawns Cubia at death.
2. Cubia is destroyed when that which spawned it is destroyed or given up... for a time.

Yea...NO.

Once you know that, Cubia is rather meaningless. I believe this is why Ovan becoming lost was a great device for the Cubia scenario since Ovan likely knew this and so did Yata and Zelkova. Otherwise, it would have run something like this:

Ovan: Haseo...
Haseo: Yeah Ovan?
Ovan: Hold my Epitaph for just a bit.
Haseo: ...alright.
* Haseo now has Corbenik.
* A small amount of time passes.
Ovan: That's all I needed.
* Ovan now has Corbenik.
Haseo: What was the point of that?
Ovan: I needed to turn off the light for a second. The fly... it was becoming a nuisance.
Haseo: ...?
END

and it would have been one of the top 25 most terrible RPG endings ever... or the whole thing would have been a 4koma and we'd never know how pivotal a moment in .hack history it actually was.

Even if Ovan could just pass off Corbenic, and if he could without Cubia just coming after Haseo, it doesn't mean anything. The Ovan's Missing plot was used because only all eight Epitaph Users could've put a stop to Cubia without sacrificing Haseo.

Actually, the first one would have been the same scenario as above in reverse (with someone else filling in for Ovan of course), or just Zelkova doing a second round of surgery, but I digress. The second one doesn't make sense either, since Cubia should be a greater force than the full power of Morganna. It would have to be by design to run counter to the "Key." However, you could say that what I stated for Kite, that Cubia was driven off because it underestimated Kite's own power, looking only at the bracelet, was true here as well for all eight Epitaph Users' individual wills. That might do it, but Ovan throws this for a loop because one person wouldn't add that much more power. He could have been the tipping point, but the way that scene was depicted makes it too extraordinary.

The implication is that Xth Form is a physical manifestation of Haseo's spirit and karmic liberation and rebirth. Giving up Xth Form isn't something that can just be deleted, it would probably send Haseo back into a coma. As for the whole "Infinity Eight = Win" clause, you forget that Haseo has the full power of the Epitaphs recessively in his PC. Morganna + Morganna = "WOAH WTF CUBIA TIME TO SHUT DOWN OR I'LL BREAK THE UNIVERSE WITH MY GODMODING **** LOL"

Ovan CAN add that much more power; He's an Epitaph User and he has a will that, according to official sources, "is second only to Haseo's", and we know Haseo's will can actually effect Za Warudo.

Why did the Rebirth and Propagation programs need a name, for that matter? Terror of Death is appropriate for what Cubia is, and Justice would work for Harald's purposes, whatever they actually were.

Cubia is a separate program from Skeith and his abilities, as I've told you. The Rebirth is a special power built into Corbenic, and likewise for the Propagation and Magus. Neither of them summon ENTIRELY NEW AI'S. Besides, Skeith's special "Terror of Death" ability, is his ability to consume the data of what he Data Drains, which is how Xth Form contains the power of the entire Cursed Wave. On a similar note, Rebirth can only be activated by Skeith defeating Corbenic with the power of the other Phases absorbed, which is another reason why Corbenic could not have released the Rebirth during Quarantine.

tought (just my tought) Ovan's lost weapon is his barrel-like thing in his left arm,and the axe like weapon is a spin drake that posessed by AIDA,if the axe is a lost weapon... why i looked so normal with no neon effect like atoli's staff and etc.
when Ovan meet Azure Knights the lock of the barrel lighted up right???

The barrel lock isn't a Lost Weapon, it's a seal created with Corbenic's power to contain the AIDA infection. The axe weapon is a manifestation of the AIDA, and has no connection to the Lost Weapons.

[Master ZED]

Since Skeith is part of the system, Cubia has to response to it, as Aura is not actually in any DANGER, just her growth.

Cubia is perfectly willing to let Aura stay stagnant and never grow or evolve, so long as she's still able to live.

Which is it?

Sorry, but the words of the developers override your own.

You can't trust writers anymore than you can trust programmers when it comes to commenting on their creations long after completion. It's unusual for any developer to know fully what they've actually created. I trust the works, not comments. If the works support the comments, then sure, but not when there's evidence otherwise. After all, they can always change their minds in future works (such as Unison's canonical nature).

This impulsive, pure, love and selflessness with no ulterior plan or motive is what allowed Aura to complete herself, surpass Morganna, and acheive wisdom, knowledge, purity, and compassion that humans as a whole are not capable of, effectively making Aura a Christ/Buddha-like figure.)

As a whole is correct. Individuals may be able to surpass her, especially in terms of power. Humanity itself is still evolving, after all, and while Aura may grow with them to some extent, being obsoleted by superior AI or even superior people is inevitable. There are more Haralds and Amagis to come, and there are mentally stronger people that may be out in the universe of The World even now, and so long as organic life persists on Earth, there will always be the potential for something better. Harald's label of ultimate AI and his lack of foresight into the problems that come with birthing someone that's meant strictly to die for the sake of another was a combination of arrogance and blindness, the latter brought on by his devotion to Emma.

Besides... if she's that smart, then I'd have to call her a liar still, this time for claiming to sleep. I would think she's still wandering The World somewhere and just doesn't want people to know about it. After all, if she really slept, it would be no different than being dead to the world at large, and a great many people who put too much value in life out of fear of death would condemn her for it if they only realized what she was doing. The fact that she could be contacted, and still kept enough tabs on The World to send out the Marriage card, kinda proves it. She's still involved in The World, but no more than the average player at best.

How the hell do you get "not part of The World" out of "Unrelated to Skeith?"

Morganna is The World, therefore Cubia is Morganna. In the case of the second Cubia, replace Morganna with Aura. If that is not the case, Cubia is not part of The World. If that's not meant to be taken literally, then how exactly was Morganna being The World defined in the first place?

It was Aura's own power, not Corbenic's, that set everything right in the ending of Quarantine. That was the POINT.

No, the point was for Aura to inherit Morganna's power and other data, combining it with her own data and potential to create the ultimate AI. Therefore, the point of the Rebirth program was originally to reboot the two as one, though obviously Morganna was simply trashed and what you say may as well be true.

Though Morganna probably would've unleashed it to reboot the network and probably try and reconstitute the Phases after binding Aura and defeating Kite, I don't know.

Now how would she do that without the Terror of Death? In fact, I'll drag another quote up...

On a similar note, Rebirth can only be activated by Skeith defeating Corbenic with the power of the other Phases absorbed, which is another reason why Corbenic could not have released the Rebirth during Quarantine.

Haven't you stopped to question why Harald would create a program meant to be activated by something he didn't foresee coming into existence, let alone intend to exist? This man didn't even see Morganna's rebellion coming, and I doubt splitting into the Eight Phases was part of his plan. You're saying now that Morganna's realization and splitting was actually part of the plan from the beginning? Or is it that Morganna created the Rebirth? Perhaps she simply altered how it would activate?

I think the truth is that you've misinterpreted what Ovan said. You took him at face value, and you can't do that with Ovan. What he meant was that only someone stronger than him could kill him and get the Rebirth to activate like it did when Aura finished Morganna, and he came to the conclusion that there was only one person with that kind of strength, that of whoever would come to possess Skeith. It represented the only thing stronger than life: death. Whoever Skeith chose would have to be potentially more powerful than Ovan.

The only reason she didn't just shut Cubia's **** ass down entirely was to allow humanity to not rely on her and to find their own solutions to their problems, which is the reason she went to sleep and vanished anyway.

Then she didn't care to live? After all, humans would persist without the network; Aura would not.

I didn't mean to imply out if sequence. Though he was picked up, while on the Net Slum Tartarga, Haseo was still broken and on the verge of falling into a coma and so forth. Skeith was going to leave and find a new partner because Haseo's personality doesn't fit "The Terror of Death's" requirements anymore, and Haseo basically went "**** where you goin'?" Held on, and the two reconciled at a spiritual level that allowed their power to intermingle. Zelkova capitalized on this and gave it a physical form that can manifest in Za Warudo, while simultaniously repairing Haseo's PC and bringing him back to consciousness.

That's not how Zelkova put it. He said he merely made a few connections, nothing more. He could have been lying, but he'd have to be damn good, or have altered Skeith personally, to give Haseo a new weapon class that mimics Skeith the 3rd's basic projectiles when nobody has even seen them yet.

The idea was that all of the Epitaphs working together were able to form a "God" power from their combined strength to rule the internet, and were basically able to reprogram Cubia to make Haseo an "exception" on the list. Possibly by tricking Cubia into thinking it was Aura giving the message.

Mmm... that's a very weird theory considering Haseo was focused on killing, not on making himself some exception on a list he nor anyone but Aura ever knew about. I would sooner accept that Aura intervened and made Haseo an exception at the moment that Cubia would have been thought to die by Haseo's hands. IOW, she did it at a moment that no one would suspect her to have done anything more than encourage the Eight Phases, making it appear that Haseo eliminated Cubia and not her. After all, allowing miracles to have logical explanations that would "prove" God not to exist is exactly what I would expect of a divine being that wanted not to be worshiped, or maybe not even known to those whose lives it affects at all.

Chill out, dude, and listen before going on a rant.

I thought you, of all people would appreciate some emotion, unlike everyone else I meet. :\

Yes, but after the final confrontation between Haseo and Ovan, the two are no longer shadows and parallels to each other; the connection wouldn't be made anymore.

That wouldn't matter. This would only be of concern at the moment Cubia was given reason to exist once more. After all, Kite had little to no doubt at the final battle with Cubia and the shadow hadn't changed at all.

Besides, Cubia DOES NOT have the symbolic, abstract reasoning to think "Hm, Let me oppose this guy by reflecting his shadow as his DUETAGONIST HASEO LOLOLOLOL" If it was opposing Ovan, it would have a shadowed Ovan core. Haseo and Ovan being literary foils does not mean that an emotionless, objective system would see the relationship.

I don't know how I can get you to understand my theory. I'll try one more time. The shadow is the opposite of the target. Kite didn't have an actual opposite, so Cubia used a shadow that would represent him if he embraced despair rather than courage.

Ovan had Haseo, thus the reason Cubia is no longer referred to as a shadow. I'd argue that Yata didn't know this and that his use of Anti-Existence before Aura is a plothole, but the Key of the Twilight name also mysteriously changed overnight between Reminisce and Redemption to Key of Twilight. The Anti-Existence terminology may have had similar roots. Anyway, Cubia just yanked his visage if only because, assuming Cubia is primitive but acknowledging Harald created him and wanted to make damn sure the truth "There has never been a light that didn't cast a shadow" was proven correct to those that would threaten The World, Cubia would have seen that Haseo and Ovan are rivals at the very least (after all, Haseo made a huge impression on The World hunting down Tri-Edge, or rather, Ovan) and used the Terror of Death in place of a shadow.

As for why the shadow doesn't change in Ovan's case, it could just be a lack of evolutionary quality. Certainly Cubia can grow stronger, but as we saw with Kite, as his courage and strength grew, the shadow didn't change at all. I would expect it to be of something more horrible, say Kite committing suicide or something, if Cubia could evolve.

Also, the developers say you're wrong.

Another problem with this statement, beyond said developers changing their minds, is that they still haven't explained one of the most important aspects of the series, Data Drain, up to the point of Returner. I believe they may be selectively withholding information and that until .hack ends, unless the actual works agree wholeheartedly, everything they say should be taken with a grain of salt. The next game may prove me right and have the developers laugh at you for buying their lies. Until .hack is over or evidence surfaces otherwise in future works and not comments, my words can still become truth.

Even if Ovan could just pass off Corbenic, and if he could without Cubia just coming after Haseo, it doesn't mean anything. The Ovan's Missing plot was used because only all eight Epitaph Users could've put a stop to Cubia without sacrificing Haseo...

The implication is that Xth Form is a physical manifestation of Haseo's spirit and karmic liberation and rebirth. Giving up Xth Form isn't something that can just be deleted, it would probably send Haseo back into a coma. As for the whole "Infinity Eight = Win" clause, you forget that Haseo has the full power of the Epitaphs recessively in his PC. Morganna + Morganna = "WOAH WTF CUBIA TIME TO SHUT DOWN OR I'LL BREAK THE UNIVERSE WITH MY GODMODING **** LOL"

Cubia has the intelligence to run away, but I highly doubt that thing would back down even in the face of God. It simply wasn't meant to. It would take a god-like force to get Cubia to come out in the first place, so why would it cower from said forces? If anything, I would think Cubia would resurface and further build upon its power, continuously running away, until it could match Haseo and crush him.

Besides, Xth Form is the result of Skeith and Haseo's unity; Haseo's spirit is what powers the PC and the avatar, but in the latter case, that was always true... even if people don't want to believe it.

Ovan CAN add that much more power; He's an Epitaph User and he has a will that, according to official sources, "is second only to Haseo's", and we know Haseo's will can actually effect Za Warudo.

So you agree with me that willpower affects The World? The last time I said this, I was shot down for it, but I still believe this is true.

The Rebirth is a special power built into Corbenic, and likewise for the Propagation and Magus.

You mean Morganna; again, Harald never thought the Eight Phases would become real and hold Morganna's powers on top of that, unless you can prove otherwise.

Back on the whole Skeith activating the Rebirth thing, if this was the case, that Ovan was speaking pure truth and wasn't just speaking of his plan, why send the only Phase that could activate the Rebirth and restore Morganna completely to the front line? Morganna hadn't lost anything until Skeith's death, so you can't blame that on insanity.

Neither of them summon ENTIRELY NEW AI'S.

Ah, but you called Cubia primitive in terms of intelligence. The Propagation was noted as attempting to replicate the Phases unsuccessfully, but with Cubia's supposed stupidity, that actually wouldn't be too difficult. The power of it might if you think in terms of spirituality, but this is still a game bound by the almighty binary system. God's power in the digital realm is far easier to recreate than in real life obviously. Intelligence would be the same as well, but obviously intellect is much harder to create than power just by looking at nature. To that end, I'm not ready to discount the Terror of Death/Justice ability just yet, even if one could make the argument that the core Haseo represents him at the point of birth, naked and powerless. With little on the brain side and a lot on the muscle side, Cubia would be far more simple than the Phases to create, but much tougher as well.

Besides, Skeith's special "Terror of Death" ability, is his ability to consume the data of what he Data Drains, which is how Xth Form contains the power of the entire Cursed Wave.

Considering Skeith is the only one that ever Protect Breaks anyone save Kuhn, I believe the only way we could confirm that is to ask CC2 whether Kuhn received any data from destroying the Anna at Indieglut Lugh. Data Drain's graphics certainly suggest I'm right.

Anyway, there might be contradictions or something, but edits have taken 150 minutes, the actual post 30, and I'm getting kinda bored with this post. :\

[Keyaki]

oh my damn head hurts now thanks to you too T.T
I dont know anything anymore

anyways, i got a few ?s now

Morganna has no control or influence over Cubia

but Morganna isn't she still able to make Cubia sort-of stand down? I think I recal you saying that in one post, can't remember

special "Terror of Death" ability, is his ability to consume the data of what he Data Drains

Guess just Data Draining and "consuming" in Skeith's case are 2 different concepts?

The idea was that all of the Epitaphs working together were able to form a "God" power from their combined strength to rule the internet, and were basically able to reprogram Cubia to make Haseo an "exception" on the list. Possibly by tricking Cubia into thinking it was Aura giving the message.

Weird but it actually makes sense, like at that moment, they achieved some kind of power that was probably somewhat on par with Aura and got rid of Cubia, but im guessing that Cubia's destruction in both IMOQ and GU is just its way of " disappearing"

[AuraTwilight]

Which is it?

By the first quote, I meant that her growth was in danger of REGRESSING. There's a difference between that and stagnation.

You can't trust writers anymore than you can trust programmers when it comes to commenting on their creations long after completion. It's unusual for any developer to know fully what they've actually created. I trust the works, not comments. If the works support the comments, then sure, but not when there's evidence otherwise. After all, they can always change their minds in future works (such as Unison's canonical nature).

.hack//Truth is a "work." .hack//Analysis is a "work." .hack//GU Perfect Guidebook is a "work." You can't just ignore what the CREATORS OF THE STORY say just because you don't like it. They have far more weight than you. Besides, it's not like they're contradicting anything canonical.

As a whole is correct. Individuals may be able to surpass her, especially in terms of power. Humanity itself is still evolving, after all, and while Aura may grow with them to some extent, being obsoleted by superior AI or even superior people is inevitable.

A superior AI is impossible. She's the Ultimate. And according to Harald, AI's are inherently superior by having no limits to their evolution. Aura is the only being in .hack that can accurately be called, or atleast BECOME, a god.

There are more Haralds and Amagis to come, and there are mentally stronger people that may be out in the universe of The World even now, and so long as organic life persists on Earth, there will always be the potential for something better. Harald's label of ultimate AI and his lack of foresight into the problems that come with birthing someone that's meant strictly to die for the sake of another was a combination of arrogance and blindness, the latter brought on by his devotion to Emma.

Very good points, but now that Aura's here, she's pretty much the ultimate being; the only known entity that has infinite potential, and might possibly ever will. She's a perfect case of a Seed AI, and if she wanted could probably live to see the death of the universe, long after organic life is gone.

Besides... if she's that smart, then I'd have to call her a liar still, this time for claiming to sleep. I would think she's still wandering The World somewhere and just doesn't want people to know about it. After all, if she really slept, it would be no different than being dead to the world at large, and a great many people who put too much value in life out of fear of death would condemn her for it if they only realized what she was doing. The fact that she could be contacted, and still kept enough tabs on The World to send out the Marriage card, kinda proves it. She's still involved in The World, but no more than the average player at best.

Incorrect. She WAS sleeping, but was in a sort of dream state. Basically, she made it so she only observed in a hazy, barely-awake manner so that she can remain hidden and nactive, but aware of when she needs to get off her ass. For this reason, she made the Azure Knights, and put guards in place as an "Alarm Clock" if needed. When Aina woke her up, she stayed awake just long enough to talk with Haseo and screw around with his love life, because she's kind of a tease that way. Besides, her being "dead to the world" was the POINT. She wants people to stop relying on her to fix everything.

Morganna is The World, therefore Cubia is Morganna. In the case of the second Cubia, replace Morganna with Aura. If that is not the case, Cubia is not part of The World. If that's not meant to be taken literally, then how exactly was Morganna being The World defined in the first place?

Morganna is the consciousness of Za Warudo and it's usual game data. This "ownership of self" does not extend to PCs, AI's, and Cubia. She's supposed to be in charge of the regular game universe of Za Warudo while working behind the scenes for Aura. Especially since Morganna becoming artificially intelligent was an ACCIDENT.

No, the point was for Aura to inherit Morganna's power and other data, combining it with her own data and potential to create the ultimate AI. Therefore, the point of the Rebirth program was originally to reboot the two as one, though obviously Morganna was simply trashed and what you say may as well be true.

The first sentence you inferred from the Liminality Easter Egg, which is bunk. The two were never intended to merge. Morganna was essentially killed, reborn in a philosophical sense referencing Buddhist dharma. Besides, that still doesn't change the fact that the Rebirth program is only activated by Skeith killing Corbenic to reboot the network. It's only appeared in "Redemption."

Now how would she do that without the Terror of Death? In fact, I'll drag another quote up...

I was randomly speculating.

Haven't you stopped to question why Harald would create a program meant to be activated by something he didn't foresee coming into existence, let alone intend to exist? This man didn't even see Morganna's rebellion coming, and I doubt splitting into the Eight Phases was part of his plan. You're saying now that Morganna's realization and splitting was actually part of the plan from the beginning? Or is it that Morganna created the Rebirth? Perhaps she simply altered how it would activate?

Oh, like Harald was ever credited as being a good planner. Either way, I'm sure in the original plan, it was two programs that were part of the same set that Morganna probably divided between the two polar Phases to keep someone from rebooting her and having to start over from the beginning.

I think the truth is that you've misinterpreted what Ovan said.

More like what the developers said. They were pretty damn clear about what they say, perhaps you should go read .hack//Truth.

What he meant was that only someone stronger than him could kill him and get the Rebirth to activate like it did when Aura finished Morganna, and he came to the conclusion that there was only one person with that kind of strength, that of whoever would come to possess Skeith. It represented the only thing stronger than life: death. Whoever Skeith chose would have to be potentially more powerful than Ovan.

Only SKEITH can activate the Rebirth. It's Skeith's SPECIAL POWER, just like the Rebirth is Corbenic's. For something to be reborn, it first has to experience the Terror of Death. It's really simple, and you're arguing against it for no damn reason.

Then she didn't care to live? After all, humans would persist without the network; Aura would not.

Aura cares about living, but she doesn't want to be a God that has to fix all of humanity's problems. They need to learn how to get by without putting all their eggs in one basket. It doesn't matter whether that basket is herself or CC Corp's Altimit OS.

That's not how Zelkova put it. He said he merely made a few connections, nothing more. He could have been lying, but he'd have to be damn good, or have altered Skeith personally, to give Haseo a new weapon class that mimics Skeith the 3rd's basic projectiles when nobody has even seen them yet.

"Making a few connections" = Giving the new bond between the two a physical PC form. And besides, Skeith's form, like all the Epitaphs, is based on the PC's of their Users. Without the Dual Gunner class, Skeith's abilities would probably be different.

Mmm... that's a very weird theory considering Haseo was focused on killing, not on making himself some exception on a list he nor anyone but Aura ever knew about.

More than likely, Ovan either directed it, or the use of all Eight in opposition to Cubia did it automatically.

I would sooner accept that Aura intervened and made Haseo an exception at the moment that Cubia would have been thought to die by Haseo's hands. IOW, she did it at a moment that no one would suspect her to have done anything more than encourage the Eight Phases, making it appear that Haseo eliminated Cubia and not her. After all, allowing miracles to have logical explanations that would "prove" God not to exist is exactly what I would expect of a divine being that wanted not to be worshiped, or maybe not even known to those whose lives it affects at all.

You're grossly misinterpreting Aura's agenda. She wants to not have to act at all; no one really "expects" her there anyway, so it's redundant. She wants to be totally out of the loop.

I thought you, of all people would appreciate some emotion, unlike everyone else I meet. :\

I do, but not in the way you presented it. Another case of people assuming my thoughts for me like pricks.

That wouldn't matter. This would only be of concern at the moment Cubia was given reason to exist once more. After all, Kite had little to no doubt at the final battle with Cubia and the shadow hadn't changed at all.

This is because the Shadow that Cubia projects isn't based on the emotions or mind of the threat in question. My point exactly.

I don't know how I can get you to understand my theory. I'll try one more time. The shadow is the opposite of the target. Kite didn't have an actual opposite, so Cubia used a shadow that would represent him if he embraced despair rather than courage.

I understand your theory. It's just wrong. The only "shadow" to a person is their own self.

Ovan had Haseo, thus the reason Cubia is no longer referred to as a shadow. I'd argue that Yata didn't know this and that his use of Anti-Existence before Aura is a plothole, but the Key of the Twilight name also mysteriously changed overnight between Reminisce and Redemption to Key of Twilight. The Anti-Existence terminology may have had similar roots. Anyway, Cubia just yanked his visage if only because, assuming Cubia is primitive but acknowledging Harald created him and wanted to make damn sure the truth "There has never been a light that didn't cast a shadow" was proven correct to those that would threaten The World, Cubia would have seen that Haseo and Ovan are rivals at the very least (after all, Haseo made a huge impression on The World hunting down Tri-Edge, or rather, Ovan) and used the Terror of Death in place of a shadow.

And as I already told you, Cubia isn't that intuitive. It doesn't possess the mental faculties to make all those observations, deductions, and decisions. Only XXXX Cubia is humanoid in intelligence. If Ovan was the problem, it'd go "GRR OVAN BE TEH BAD MUST REFLECT AS TEH SHADOW GRR." also, the term Anti-Existence has been in use since .hack//Analysis, so poo on you. Also, Key of the Twilight to Key of Twilight. OOOH someone go stone the story-writer's house, it's such a massive plot hole.

As for why the shadow doesn't change in Ovan's case, it could just be a lack of evolutionary quality. Certainly Cubia can grow stronger, but as we saw with Kite, as his courage and strength grew, the shadow didn't change at all. I would expect it to be of something more horrible, say Kite committing suicide or something, if Cubia could evolve.

Cubia can evolve just fine; we see it do this all the time. But it doesn't reflect personality; it's not capable.

Another problem with this statement, beyond said developers changing their minds, is that they still haven't explained one of the most important aspects of the series, Data Drain, up to the point of Returner. I believe they may be selectively withholding information and that until .hack ends, unless the actual works agree wholeheartedly, everything they say should be taken with a grain of salt. The next game may prove me right and have the developers laugh at you for buying their lies. Until .hack is over or evidence surfaces otherwise in future works and not comments, my words can still become truth.

Oh come the f*ck on. It's one thing to say they're changing their minds, but don't accuse them of being malicious liars just because your theory doesn't work with what they tell us. What they say goes. Besides, they only really change their minds when **** isn't really finalized yet, and regardless; Data Drain is the ability to alter data. This has been said multiple times. Do we really need to know anything else? Even if it was somehow unnecessarily vague, the reason would be for the same reason they don't give us the entire Epitaph of Twilight, or why Nintendo doesn't explain the Legend of Zelda timeline: So they're not bound by previous definitions that would get in the way of the creative process. Your theory is interesting, and they may retcon the series to accommodate it, but as things exist right now, you're wrong. Learn to accept that and be mature.

Cubia has the intelligence to run away, but I highly doubt that thing would back down even in the face of God. It simply wasn't meant to. It would take a god-like force to get Cubia to come out in the first place, so why would it cower from said forces? If anything, I would think Cubia would resurface and further build upon its power, continuously running away, until it could match Haseo and crush him.

Running away is an intelligence an animal has, so no problem. Also, godlike and GOD are not the same. When Cubia is receiving an "order" from "God" to back the f*ck down, it'll listen. It was given a SysOp command that probably went right to the code regardless of whether or not Cubia as a conscious entity agreed with it.

Besides, Xth Form is the result of Skeith and Haseo's unity; Haseo's spirit is what powers the PC and the avatar, but in the latter case, that was always true... even if people don't want to believe it.

Correct. However, what makes Xth Form special is that it contains the essences of the entire Epitaph. That's why it's considered the Key of the Twilight.

So you agree with me that willpower affects The World? The last time I said this, I was shot down for it, but I still believe this is true.

I was one of the FIRST people to advocate that willpower affects Za Warudo, and possibly reality itself, at large. You were probably shot down for the context you used the idea in, not the principle itself, such as "Cubia vanished because Kite had teh will to win."

You mean Morganna; again, Harald never thought the Eight Phases would become real and hold Morganna's powers on top of that, unless you can prove otherwise.

The Eight Phases are all an eighth of Morganna. Each Epitaph thus has an eighth of Morganna's original power. What the hell are you arguing? Because I never claimed that Morganna came prepackaged as the Eight Phases or some nonsense.

Back on the whole Skeith activating the Rebirth thing, if this was the case, that Ovan was speaking pure truth and wasn't just speaking of his plan, why send the only Phase that could activate the Rebirth and restore Morganna completely to the front line? Morganna hadn't lost anything until Skeith's death, so you can't blame that on insanity.

Morganna was insane before Tsukasa was even Data Drained, so yes I can, but more to the point, the Phases have to be released in order. Morganna's entire conflict is that she can't disobey her programming even when she wants to. She can't send out Phases out of order just because; she can't give the Rebirth to Fidchell just for lulz.

Ah, but you called Cubia primitive in terms of intelligence.

He's still an artificial intelligence. He's not as humanoid as the others, but he's still conscious and autonomous.

The Propagation was noted as attempting to replicate the Phases unsuccessfully, but with Cubia's supposed stupidity, that actually wouldn't be too difficult.

I never claimed he was "stupid", and even if he was, that wouldn't make him somehow "Easier" to summon or handle.

The power of it might if you think in terms of spirituality, but this is still a game bound by the almighty binary system. God's power in the digital realm is far easier to recreate than in real life obviously. Intelligence would be the same as well, but obviously intellect is much harder to create than power just by looking at nature. To that end, I'm not ready to discount the Terror of Death/Justice ability just yet, even if one could make the argument that the core Haseo represents him at the point of birth, naked and powerless. With little on the brain side and a lot on the muscle side, Cubia would be far more simple than the Phases to create, but much tougher as well.

Yea, except Cubia's power is equal to or greater than all Eight Phases. You're upsetting the balance by implying that Skeith can summon and/or manipulate one of the few entities that's comparable to God in scope of sheer power.

Considering Skeith is the only one that ever Protect Breaks anyone save Kuhn, I believe the only way we could confirm that is to ask CC2 whether Kuhn received any data from destroying the Anna at Indieglut Lugh. Data Drain's graphics certainly suggest I'm right.

.hack//Truth says it, so yea, you're wrong. Aside from that, Data Drain always gives the user SOMETHING. Just because Kuhn received some packet of data doesn't mean squat. It could be a Data Seed, a Virus Core, some sort of code remnant, or so and such. That doesn't mean Magus can consume the essence of an entire Epitaph like Skeith can. This is, of course, assuming that the little sphere of energy wasn't a physical metaphor of a "ping" or something similar, or just EYE CANDY with no actual relevance to the background operations of the Data Drain program.

but Morganna isn't she still able to make Cubia sort-of stand down? I think I recal you saying that in one post, can't remember

Xth Form has all eight Epitaph data. This, plus the other Epitaph Users joining forces with him, can theoretically create a sort of "Double-Morganna" effect. BEYOND THE INFINITE ROW ROW ROW.

Guess just Data Draining and "consuming" in Skeith's case are 2 different concepts?

Basically, Skeith can pull off a Kirby if he wants to, instead of just rewriting an opponent's data or extracting an embedded object.

Weird but it actually makes sense, like at that moment, they achieved some kind of power that was probably somewhat on par with Aura and got rid of Cubia, but im guessing that Cubia's destruction in both IMOQ and GU is just its way of " disappearing"

Pretty much, like when you kill a monster. That individual monster dies, but the program that can summon it still exists in the system.

[Keyaki]

th Form has all eight Epitaph data. This, plus the other Epitaph Users joining forces with him, can theoretically create a sort of "Double-Morganna" effect. BEYOND THE INFINITE ROW ROW ROW.

Yea i thought that what you were getting at

Either way, I'm sure in the original plan, it was two programs that were part of the same set that Morganna probably divided between the two polar Phases to keep someone from rebooting her and having to start over from the beginning.

You mean splitting the Rebirth power to Corbenik?

Now im starting to wonder how did Ovan know Haseo had Skeith in the first place?

[AuraTwilight]

Ovan is able to talk with Corbenic, and apparently does so regularly. Obviously the Epitaphs would recognize each other. For this same reason, Ovan decided to keep Shino close, since she contained Innis.

[shadow of skeith]

Ovan is able to talk with Corbenic, and apparently does so regularly. Obviously the Epitaphs would recognize each other. For this same reason, Ovan decided to keep Shino close, since she contained Innis.

So after Ovan accidently killed her, that's when Innis was transfered into Atoli?

[Keyaki]

Ovan is able to talk with Corbenic, and apparently does so regularly. Obviously the Epitaphs would recognize each other. For this same reason, Ovan decided to keep Shino close, since she contained Innis.

So after Ovan accidently killed her, that's when Innis was transfered into Atoli?

Yeah, its on .HackWikia

Ovan is able to talk with Corbenic,

Really?

[shadow of skeith]

Well, yeah...All epitaph users were able to talk to their epitaphs. This was a clear example when Haseo was on the verge of losing himself. He and Skeith had a conversation, which then led to Haseo getting his Xth Form. Pi could talk to Tarvos, Kuhn could talk to Magus, etc. Epitaphs with their players were not just add-ons. They were merged as a whole. They could understand each other.

[Keyaki]

Yea I knew that much >>

what AT said struck me as different