Crap.... Haseo is.... (and other spoilers)

Azure crow · Post by **Azure crow** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:20 pm

Zer0 wrote:How did Ovan know all that stuff about the "Key of the Twilight" and Aura?

Yhe books he and Ina read.
I'm sure they had some good information in them on the subject.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:02 pm

Ovan and Ina found one of Harald's Rooms, which contained the complete (well, as complete as it can be) Epitaph and absolutely all of Harald's notes. Ovan and Ina probably know as much about the system as Harald himself does.

Post by **Kuukai** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:57 pm

I doubt they were his notes. It took Ovan like ten months to figure out what the Key of the Twilight actually was. Not Ovan, not even Aura seems to have understood Cubia properly (Which kinda makes it feel like heavy retconning, this is actually much harder to swallow than the Sora thing). Harald took many secrets with him, wherever he went...

Anyway, Ovan knew about the Key of the Twilight and Aura through Yata/Wiseman, from back when he was a normal player.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:31 pm

Well, I'm sure some of them were his notes. I highly doubt the full Epitaph takes up THAT many books. (especially when Ina fit it all onto one book.)

fallacies · Post by **fallacies** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:44 pm

I haven't watched The End of The World, but it seems suspicious that somebody so knowledgeable and well-connected as Ovan might just pop up from out of nowhere. The wikia entry on the data disk hints that Pai's older brother found this odd as well.

Ovan seems to have had a far clearer picture of the system workings of The World R:2 than Yata/Wiseman and his predecessors in GU. He even pulls one over a few times, and Wiseman was one of the dot hackers ... It doesn't sound right that he was just a normal player or hacker who learned about the Harald System from Wiseman.

How did Ovan get into Harald's Room anyways? Hacking skills alone?

AuraTwilight wrote:Well, I'm sure some of them were his notes. I highly doubt the full Epitaph takes up THAT many books. (especially when Ina fit it all onto one book.)

The book is just a graphic. It could really be any length at all.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:12 am

How did Ovan get into Harald's Room anyways? Hacking skills alone?

He and Ina slipped in through a glitch caused by the AIDA.

The book is just a graphic. It could really be any length at all.

Well, yea, obviously. But if you can fit the whole Epitaph into one book, then surely the other books have equally large volumes of content. Harald's crazy, but not stupid. He's not gonna waste system resources.

DarkChaos · Post by **DarkChaos** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:59 pm

I know that I have been MIA for awhile but I have this to say.

1. I had some internet problems due to my starhub service and I needed to do some things to my IP and stuff again....also....see below.

My sources came from some friends I have, that work for Production I.G. who also have friends that work for CC2 who sent me several emails. I had to read the emails over and over again to verify things, even then there where some holes. I thus decided I would take a little trip to Osaka and Kyoto to talk to some people. I live in Singapore so this was fairly easy. Anyway I won't say much because I know noone will believe me, I really don't care. I learned even more than before and I learned also that Sora has nothing to do with Haseo or the current project G.U. at all. Believe what you will, but I know the truth. I'm just going to laugh everytime I see someone assume Sora is Haseo based on age and whatever else.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:38 pm

My sources came from some friends I have, that work for Production I.G. who also have friends that work for CC2 who sent me several emails. I had to read the emails over and over again to verify things, even then there where some holes. I thus decided I would take a little trip to Osaka and Kyoto to talk to some people. I live in Singapore so this was fairly easy. Anyway I won't say much because I know noone will believe me, I really don't care. I learned even more than before and I learned also that Sora has nothing to do with Haseo or the current project G.U. at all. Believe what you will, but I know the truth. I'm just going to laugh everytime I see someone assume Sora is Haseo based on age and whatever else.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like complete and total bull. Plus, you promised us sources that we could read for ourselves. Try posting those emails.

Dragoon2044 · Post by **Dragoon2044** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:43 am

yeah those kind of sources where my friend of an uncle's friend friend friend need a hell of a lot of substantial proof. that is unless you have substantial evidence that can be examined.

Dot · Post by **Dot** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:38 am

The fact that Haseo is Sora can't be true. I mean, Sora wasn't the only one who got DD'd, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one there that was around 9 years old.
Also, is GU 7 years AFTER Udeden? Because if so, wouldnt that make Sora older?
and Haseo being Shugo would make me commit suicide. Don't say stuff like that again D:

Bryce_P · Post by **Bryce_P** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:46 am

nah, it was 7 years after Quarantine. even then, the idea of Haseo being Sora isn't completely out of the question, just a little unlikely.

Tadashi · Post by **Tadashi** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:49 am

Proof or it didn't happen.
Alternatively: Facts or GTFO.

@Dot
G.U. is 3 years after Udeden, which in turn is 4 years after IMOQ.
So G.U. is taking place 7 years after IMOQ.

TheSorrow · Post by **TheSorrow** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:19 pm

I shall say this again.
It's probably that Haseo is Sora and the facts we have are pretty much proof of it. It's just that is a stupid plot twist to have such a character like Sora falling into a coma and forgetting everything, and without any in-game clue stating any possible facts about it.

Bulletcatcher · Post by **Bulletcatcher** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:51 pm

TheSorrow wrote:I shall say this again.
It's probably that Haseo is Sora and the facts we have are pretty much proof of it. It's just that is a stupid plot twist to have such a character like Sora falling into a coma and forgetting everything, and without any in-game clue stating any possible facts about it.

Well, we knew from Haseo's name that he was somehow connected to Sora, but we weren't expecting for him to be Sora.

destai · Post by **destai** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:43 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:
My sources came from some friends I have, that work for Production I.G. who also have friends that work for CC2 who sent me several emails. I had to read the emails over and over again to verify things, even then there where some holes. I thus decided I would take a little trip to Osaka and Kyoto to talk to some people. I live in Singapore so this was fairly easy. Anyway I won't say much because I know noone will believe me, I really don't care. I learned even more than before and I learned also that Sora has nothing to do with Haseo or the current project G.U. at all. Believe what you will, but I know the truth. I'm just going to laugh everytime I see someone assume Sora is Haseo based on age and whatever else.
I'm sorry, but that sounds like complete and total bull. Plus, you promised us sources that we could read for ourselves. Try posting those emails.

I just want to back up the point AT has made. We have official sources and pictures all claiming Haseo is Sora.

Several times you've clamed to have proof that he is not and every time your argument has shown to be completely false. This time you claimed you would have proof. Instead you're saying you know for a fact Haseo isnt Sora but you're not willing to prove it and instead you will just laugh when everyone else comes to the logical conclusion that he is Sora. You're obviously trying to save your pride and carry on an argument for no reason, what do you expect us to think?

Post by **Kuukai** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:53 pm

Sora was in fourth grade, but I haven't seen anything official saying he was 9. He could be 10, depending on the time of year...

fallacies wrote:Ovan seems to have had a far clearer picture of the system workings of The World R:2 than Yata/Wiseman and his predecessors in GU. He even pulls one over a few times, and Wiseman was one of the dot hackers ... It doesn't sound right that he was just a normal player or hacker who learned about the Harald System from Wiseman.

Ovan't smart, but for a long time Yata knew more than him. Ovan worked for the NAB, which investigated the chaos caused by Aura's disappearance, but never found anything. He probably saw enough evidence to realize it was probably tied to The World, though. He knew about Harald, like lots of people, but he didn't really find out more than the .hackers until Ina found a glitch leading to Harald's room. Even then, he played it mainly by ear, and he never succeeded in finding Aura...

AuraTwilight wrote:Well, yea, obviously. But if you can fit the whole Epitaph into one book, then surely the other books have equally large volumes of content. Harald's crazy, but not stupid. He's not gonna waste system resources.

The Lost Grounds don't serve a purpose (well, one, but not getting into that here), why would the books? They probably hold random data like the various books Kite had. Some of them might be corrupted, like that one piece of the Epitaph. Who knows?

DarkChaos wrote:I thus decided I would take a little trip to Osaka and Kyoto to talk to some people.

Which one is CC2 headquarters in again?

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:25 pm

The Lost Grounds don't serve a purpose (well, one, but not getting into that here), why would the books? They probably hold random data like the various books Kite had. Some of them might be corrupted, like that one piece of the Epitaph. Who knows?

The Lost Grounds DO have a purpose. They represent locations of the Epitaph, and thus embody Emma's genius. You can't apply that to the books unless there's an Epitaph fragment about a Library of Twilight or something.

Post by **Kuukai** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:03 pm

Entirely possible. Like they could embody all the other data Harald has about her that he put in the game, like those creepy stalker pictures...

And from what I've heard, the Lost Grounds are supposed to be a sort of Key of the Key of the Twilight, they guide you to the idea that something is up with the game, and to the existence of the Key. I haven't been able to confirm this quite yet, but it's apparently stated in Truth, as well as the Creator's Room being the "ultimate" Lost Ground...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:22 pm

Well, I think anyone who's ever played the games could grasp that theme. XD

Aryllos · Post by **Aryllos** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:28 am

Just thought I'd put in my two cents...
I may be overthinking this a bit, but through careful observation I've noticed quite a few very interesting things that could support the Sora=Haseo theory.
Clearly, their characters have very similar appearances. While this could be entirely coincidental, regardless of whether or not he has any memory of playing R:1, he would still have the same taste in character look in his subconscious.
The way they play the game is also very similar. Clearly, both Haseo and Sora have an incredible amount of natural gaming talent, as one can clearly see in any battle scene featuring one of them. When strong enough to fight the way they do, they both develop an incredibly cocky and arrogant attitude, and even though Haseo doesn't seem as crazy as Sora, he has a creepy and maniacal grin as he PKKs Bordeaux and her cronies.
But the one thing I noticed that really seemed a bit suspicious was what Haseo does when he defeats Bordeaux.
He renders her completely helpless, holds a blade up to her neck, demands that she give him information, and then kills her and walks away laughing.
Sound familiar?

I have no idea if any of this is relevant. Like I said, I'm probably thinking too far into it. But I just wanted to put that stuff out there.

BTW, picking up on the Gabi topic from earlier -- Isn't Gabi a girl in real life? (It's mentioned in Rebirth on the official forum in the Gabi interview thread.)