HaseoXAtoli (!!!SPOILER!!!)

UHR · Post by **UHR** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:58 am

Without Knowledge wrote:It's already been stated that Atoli's bullying and problems were blown to a bigger proportion in the manga, so her depression ISN'T the same in G.U.

She has to deal with all the betrayal in G.U., remember? I'd say it's about the same.

Without Knowledge wrote:Also, you keep siting that fanbook, but it's in Japanese, isn't it? Can you read it?

I know a SMALL amount of japanese, but I have a jap -> eng dictionary, so I know that リストカット = wrist cutting, slashing one's wrists, etc., which is why I asked if someone could translate the entire passage.

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:11 am

UHR wrote:
Without Knowledge wrote:It's already been stated that Atoli's bullying and problems were blown to a bigger proportion in the manga, so her depression ISN'T the same in G.U.
She has to deal with all the betrayal in G.U., remember? I'd say it's about the same...

Not the same...
Basicly when someone bullies you, you feel like there must be something that you've done wrong and the worse the bullying gets, the more you feel like it's your fault for doing something wrong, and you start to hate the fact that you can't understand what you've done wrong, or the fact that you can't do anything about it. this leads to self-hate ect. ect. Being betrayed by someone is different...i'd need to know exactly what betrayal you were refering to to continue this...
Anyway, trust me...Myself and plenty of my friends have been in situations very similar to Atoli's.

On a side note, I think the idea that Atoli being the EU of Innis because she puts on a facade to cover up her true emotions is a good idea...

I ranted...

UHR · Post by **UHR** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:35 am

TwilightFlash wrote:Not the same...
Basicly when someone bullies you, you feel like there must be something that you've done wrong and the worse the bullying gets, the more you feel like it's your fault for doing something wrong, and you start to hate the fact that you can't understand what you've done wrong, or the fact that you can't do anything about it. this leads to self-hate ect. ect. Being betrayed by someone is different...i'd need to know exactly what betrayal you were refering to to continue this...
Anyway, trust me...Myself and plenty of my friends have been in situations very similar to Atoli's.

Well, I say it's worse to be betrayed by people you're close to than be bullied by people you couldn't give two shits about. Case in point, Neon Genesis Evangelion. It's one of those things you have to see to understand, so I'm not gonna bother explaining it, but basically it covers depression/self-worth/betrayal/suicide etc., psychological crap. As for Atoli, she got betrayed by Haseo(replacement for Shino) and Sakaki(used to get information on Haseo, and everything else up to that point). It's only 2 people, but they had a big impact on her.

TwilightFlash wrote:On a side note, I think the idea that Atoli being the EU of Innis because she puts on a facade to cover up her true emotions is a good idea...

Yeah, isn't it like that with all of them? Except for Ovan, I can't really think of how he matches up with 'rebirth'.

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:21 am

The only characters I can't link to their Avatars are Ovan and Khun...what the heck is so propagating about Khun? Does he propagate himself?...*reads dictionary*...oh wait, he kinda does...
So, if ya wanna weild Magus, just become the biggest pimp in the game...
Magus: The Procreation...
it's 1 o'clock...i'm half asleep...that's my excuse...
don't ask...

Umbra · Post by **Umbra** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:12 am

You can't say Atoli self-harms simply because of her psychological and emotional state, even when I hit rock bottom, I never cut myself as many people would have in that situation.

We can't take any info from GU+ as fact until it is given to us via an outside source. However, if you're saying that this wasn't confirmed in GU+ but in an official guide to the characters regarding their canonical situations, then I'd say that is proof.

UHR · Post by **UHR** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:03 pm

Umbra wrote:You can't say Atoli self-harms simply because of her psychological and emotional state, even when I hit rock bottom, I never cut myself as many people would have in that situation.

We can't take any info from GU+ as fact until it is given to us via an outside source. However, if you're saying that this wasn't confirmed in GU+ but in an official guide to the characters regarding their canonical situations, then I'd say that is proof.

Ok, I translated part of it. It's pretty crude, but accurate. Also, yes, this is official.

Reality

【ＮＡＭＥ】 Kusaka Chigusa (くさかちぐさ)
【ＪＯＢ】Senior High School Student (Age:16／Female)

She's a senior high school student that lives in the Chiba prefecture.
Around other people, she's very timid, because of her introverted personality. Because of this she often feels lonely.
In middle school, her classmates were bullied, but when she tried to stick up for them, she became a target of bullying herself. Because of this, she has refused to attend school in the past. At times, she has thought about cutting her wrists, and scars remain on her arm.

I was going to translate it differently, but I think this way makes more sense.

Without Knowledge · Post by **Without Knowledge** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:15 pm

UHR wrote:
Umbra wrote:You can't say Atoli self-harms simply because of her psychological and emotional state, even when I hit rock bottom, I never cut myself as many people would have in that situation.

We can't take any info from GU+ as fact until it is given to us via an outside source. However, if you're saying that this wasn't confirmed in GU+ but in an official guide to the characters regarding their canonical situations, then I'd say that is proof.
Ok, I translated part of it. It's pretty crude, but accurate. Also, yes, this is official.

Reality

?????? Kusaka Chigusa (??? ???)
?????Senior High School Student (Age:16?Female)

She's a senior high school student that lives in the Chiba prefecture.
Around other people, she's very timid, because of her introverted personality. Because of this she often feels lonely.
In middle school, her classmates were bullied, but when she tried to stick up for them, she became a target of bullying herself. Because of this, she has refused to attend school in the past. At times, she has thought about cutting her wrists, and scars remain on her arm.

I was going to translate it differently, but I think this way makes more sense.

O-o High School Senior at 16? What's with that?....okay, off-topic, I know. But still!

UHR · Post by **UHR** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:32 pm

Without Knowledge wrote:O-o High School Senior at 16? What's with that?....okay, off-topic, I know. But still!

Senior High School student. Grades 10-12th are Senior High School, and 7-9 is Middle School. I'm guessing she's just in 10th grade.

TheSorrow · Post by **TheSorrow** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:37 pm

This can support what UHR says. From .hack//wiki

In the real world Atoli is a girl named Chigusa Kusaka. During middle school, she was bullied frequently. This led to her shutting herself in her room and browsing suicide websites, which is where she met Sakaki, who befriended her. Around when she entered high school, Sakaki suggested Atoli join The World.

And according to the Talk:Atoli (where they discuss about the changes), this information came from a Greeting Card mail conversation in Vol. 3

Vahn Staffear · Post by **Vahn Staffear** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:54 pm

UHR wrote:
Without Knowledge wrote:O-o High School Senior at 16? What's with that?....okay, off-topic, I know. But still!
Senior High School student. Grades 10-12th are Senior High School, and 7-9 is Middle School. I'm guessing she's just in 10th grade.

Awsome same grade as me.

Sakaki seemed like a good guy before when him and Atoli first met but soon he started useing her and thats when he became a ass.

Cant believe Atoli would commit suicide or even cut herself. =[

Annwyn · Post by **Annwyn** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:55 pm

TheSorrow wrote:This can support what UHR says. From .hack//wiki
In the real world Atoli is a girl named Chigusa Kusaka. During middle school, she was bullied frequently. This led to her shutting herself in her room and browsing suicide websites, which is where she met Sakaki, who befriended her. Around when she entered high school, Sakaki suggested Atoli join The World.
And according to the Talk:Atoli (where they discuss about the changes), this information came from a Greeting Card mail conversation in Vol. 3

...Holy crap. Atoli met Sakaki on a suicide website?

--What the hell was Sakaki doing on a suicide website?!

tenkennosoujiro · Post by **tenkennosoujiro** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:12 pm

looking for weak preys for him to manipulate

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:39 pm

hmmm...I think I speak for every one when I say...
ASS-AKAKI BASTERD!!!
I mean, what kind of kid browses sucide site looking for pawns? (as we seem to be assuming he was doing...)

Anywho, this just shows the amount of character detail they went into this time around, each character has their own backstory, something that not all the characters the fist time around...

Now that Atoli has actually got a reason for acting the way she does, I find her much more likable...

Red Frost · Post by **Red Frost** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:40 pm

Wow, so Atoil was really depressed and contemplated suicide. That's really sad. I always liked Atoli... But I would cut people first, before I cut myself, ... with my fists! Let's hope Haseo rubs off on Atoil, and she starts kickin ass! YEAH!!!

...Sakaki's a ****...

Umbra · Post by **Umbra** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:42 pm

O_O I like Sakaki, he's right up there in my favourite pile...

Who knows, maybe Sakaki was feeling suicidal? We can't be sure until we're told and we can read whatever we want into this info. I will say, in Sakaki's defence, that Atoli probably would've committed suicide if she hadn't met him, given the sense of desperation evident here.

Whether Sakaki felt the need to see a suicide website for personal reasons or even simply to see what other's felt, it makes sense. I'm now quite convinced that Sakaki's discovery of the horrible things that drive people to consider killing themselves had an effect on him, and it was this that drove him to want to make peace in The World at any cost, even if that meant using AIDA to control the players.

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:46 pm

Umbra wrote:O_O I like Sakaki, he's right up there in my favourite pile...

Who knows, maybe Sakaki was feeling suicidal? We can't be sure until we're told and we can read whatever we want into this info. I will say, in Sakaki's defence, that Atoli probably would've committed suicide if she hadn't met him, given the sense of desperation evident here.

That's fair enough...He clearly did help her out...and I suppose Sakaki fealing suicidle would contribute somewhat to his...errr...twisted ideals? He might have felt like the real world deserved what he wanted to do to it...from his perspective, having everyone under AIDA control may have made thw world a safer place...or that if everyone was controled by AIDA there wouldn't be the problems to cause him to feel the way he did?

EDIT: Darn you Umbra, editing your post after I finished mine....

TheSorrow · Post by **TheSorrow** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:50 pm

Who knows why Sakaki was in a Suicide website, but i also believe Sakaki actually wanted to help Atoli, and not using her as a pawn for his plot. Before, and after he was involved with AIDA (involved as in 'knew about it'), he seems to be a nice 10 years old kiddy.

from his perspective, having everyone under AIDA control may have made thw world a safer place...or that if everyone was controled by AIDA there wouldn't be the problems to cause him to feel the way he did?

That was the first reason of why Sakaki wanted AIDA; to make everyone follow Moon Tree's ideals (he's just immature to difference good and bad at all). Then AIDA took over his mind and started doing crazy things.

Red Frost · Post by **Red Frost** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:53 pm

Umbra wrote:O_O I like Sakaki, he's right up there in my favourite pile...

Who knows, maybe Sakaki was feeling suicidal? We can't be sure until we're told and we can read whatever we want into this info. I will say, in Sakaki's defence, that Atoli probably would've committed suicide if she hadn't met him, given the sense of desperation evident here.

I like Sakaki too, he has a lovely speaking voice... And he seems cool. And he may have saved Atoli, but he did use her. And when she finds out about this, that would probably make her feel ten times worse. I don't know, I haven't played Vol. 2 or 3. I'm just going off of what I've heard.
But maybe he is a nice guy. I mean, I don't think he could tell Atoil was useful to him before she joined The World. And maybe his whole "complex" is from him being suicidal too...

EDIT: God I'm a slow typer...

Jimbob · Post by **Jimbob** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:02 pm

I dunno Sakaki seems to be plotting something before he learns much about AIDA (which doesn't happen until Vol.2 I believe) I doubt he had good intentions. He was just looking for weak willed people he could gain as allies. But whatever Sakaki angers me. He's just a 10 year old who the hell does he think he is pushing people older than him around like that. He knows nothing about anything at his age.

Red Frost · Post by **Red Frost** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:04 pm

Jimbob wrote:I dunno Sakaki seems to be plotting something before he learns much about AIDA (which doesn't happen until Vol.2 I believe) I doubt he had good intentions. He was just looking for weak willed people he could gain as allies. But whatever Sakaki angers me. He's just a 10 year old who the hell does he think he is pushing people older than him around like that. He knows nothing about anything at his age.

That's kinda harsh, some people can be quite intellectual at a young age. Hell, It seems like some high-schoolers revert back to kindergardeners.