About Endrances.. last second Entrance (spoilers)

[Persongus]

No, I'm saying from the POV of the audience, who cares?

Ah. I see. But if this means you're maintaining it's illegal, I still say we have no reason to think that. I mean, aside from it being unfair, which really can't be used as an argument, considering The World is full of admins and players and the like who are just like "do wat u want FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[.hack//BICTIOUS]

To be fair, this is R:2 That's pretty much EXACTLY what it is. Notice how no one has ever approached Endrance and Haseo for their obvious cheating in the arena. Also note that CC Corp basically sits on their asses and blatantly ignores the PKing problem. (The Arena was their only attempt at a solution and that just encouraged it)

[The Azure Rose]

Even if your name's on the list doesn't mean you can enter in the middle of the battle.

How do' ya know that?

[Jimbob]

Well obviously Endrance decided to help Haseo by triggering a cutscene, which completely destroys the physics of the game. Those who can trigger cutscenes have complete power for approximately 2 minutes. There's your answer.

[AuraTwilight]

Also note that CC Corp basically sits on their asses and blatantly ignores the PKing problem. (The Arena was their only attempt at a solution and that just encouraged it)

I wouldn't really lump PKing into the cheating category, since it's possible under game mechanics and is thus allowed. The only people who really oppose it are the Crimson Knights, and who the f*ck really cares?

How do' ya know that?

Because it'd be cheating otherwise.

Well obviously Endrance decided to help Haseo by triggering a cutscene, which completely destroys the physics of the game. Those who can trigger cutscenes have complete power for approximately 2 minutes. There's your answer.

You win.

[.hack//BICTIOUS]

Also note that CC Corp basically sits on their asses and blatantly ignores the PKing problem. (The Arena was their only attempt at a solution and that just encouraged it)

I wouldn't really lump PKing into the cheating category, since it's possible under game mechanics and is thus allowed. The only people who really oppose it are the Crimson Knights, and who the f*ck really cares?

All that was referring to R:2. I'm not saying it's cheating, I just mean CC Corp seems rather.. lazy in this incarnation.

[Persongus]

To be fair, this is R:2 That's pretty much EXACTLY what it is. Notice how no one has ever approached Endrance and Haseo for their obvious cheating in the arena. Also note that CC Corp basically sits on their asses and blatantly ignores the PKing problem. (The Arena was their only attempt at a solution and that just encouraged it)

So then, how do you know it's cheating if no one says anything? And besides, the players are just retarded, not ignorant. They know that what Endrance and Haseo do is rare, but let's not forget, it iz liek teh rare skillzor, not teh hax. =B But no one ever mentions the arena entry: that's just shrugged off.

How do' ya know that?

Because it'd be cheating otherwise.

That's your argument? What about Endrance having like 20 points higher than Silabus and 10 points higher than Antares in every stat at the same level with the same equipment? I don't suppose you'll argue that Endrance's and Antares' Avatars did that, too?

[AuraTwilight]

So then, how do you know it's cheating if no one says anything? And besides, the players are just retarded, not ignorant. They know that what Endrance and Haseo do is rare, but let's not forget, it iz liek teh rare skillzor, not teh hax. =B But no one ever mentions the arena entry: that's just shrugged off.

Why can't they assume that Endrance entered with his teh raer skillzor?

That's your argument? What about Endrance having like 20 points higher than Silabus and 10 points higher than Antares in every stat at the same level with the same equipment? I don't suppose you'll argue that Endrance's and Antares' Avatars did that, too?

That's just game mechanics. The entry of the arena is storyline and above game physics, meaning that the only explanation aside from "plothole" is "Avatar".

[Jimbob]

Why is this still an issue? I answered. It was a cutscene they don't make sense according to game mechanics. Like how Ovan can rip the Azures apart in seconds yet you can kill him yet  You can't beat the Azure's in Vol.3 Like how if Ovan was as powerful in the game as in the cutscenes you could never ever beat him. Like how you couldn't take Azure Kite at lvl 130 but could at 50.

It's possible the guys who animated that cutscene had no idea you were even in a MMORPG arena to begin with.

Basically it looked cool. Now don't think about it.

[Persongus]

So then, how do you know it's cheating if no one says anything? And besides, the players are just retarded, not ignorant. They know that what Endrance and Haseo do is rare, but let's not forget, it iz liek teh rare skillzor, not teh hax. =B But no one ever mentions the arena entry: that's just shrugged off.

Why can't they assume that Endrance entered with his teh raer skillzor?

Because Endrance's Skill is Instant Death, not Enter Arena Illegally. Duh, AT.

That's your argument? What about Endrance having like 20 points higher than Silabus and 10 points higher than Antares in every stat at the same level with the same equipment? I don't suppose you'll argue that Endrance's and Antares' Avatars did that, too?

That's just game mechanics. The entry of the arena is storyline and above game physics, meaning that the only explanation aside from "plothole" is "Avatar".

And why can it not be a plothole? Because dothack is magical and immune to the flaw that many games with real stories suffer from? Because there have been no continuity issues or plotholes so far? THAT'S TOTAL BULL! There is such thing as a plot mechanic, which is the equivalent to a game mechanic, you know. Maybe they shouldn't exist, but they're there.

[AuraTwilight]

Because Endrance's Skill is Instant Death, not Enter Arena Illegally. Duh, AT.

For all they know, it's part of a skill set.

And why can it not be a plothole? Because dothack is magical and immune to the flaw that many games with real stories suffer from? Because there have been no continuity issues or plotholes so far? THAT'S TOTAL BULL! There is such thing as a plot mechanic, which is the equivalent to a game mechanic, you know. Maybe they shouldn't exist, but they're there.

It could be a plothole, but since he's using his Avatar anyway at the same exact time as he's entering, and he's DEMONSTRATED THE AVATAR ABILITY TO PASS THROUGH GODDAMN WALLS, I'm assuming it's Avatar. I'm not gonna claim .hack has no plotholes (or admit that it does), but this isn't one of them.

[Persongus]

And why can it not be a plothole? Because dothack is magical and immune to the flaw that many games with real stories suffer from? Because there have been no continuity issues or plotholes so far? THAT'S TOTAL BULL! There is such thing as a plot mechanic, which is the equivalent to a game mechanic, you know. Maybe they shouldn't exist, but they're there.

It could be a plothole, but since he's using his Avatar anyway at the same exact time as he's entering, and he's DEMONSTRATED THE AVATAR ABILITY TO PASS THROUGH GODDAMN WALLS, I'm assuming it's Avatar. I'm not gonna claim .hack has no plotholes (or admit that it does), but this isn't one of them.

He used AIDA to pass through that wall. That's what the BLACK SPOTS WERE. Besides, how do you know this isn't a plothole? You know what, I'm tired of this. I'll play this your way. It IS a plothole, and you can't argue that. There.

[AuraTwilight]

He used AIDA to pass through that wall. That's what the BLACK SPOTS WERE. Besides, how do you know this isn't a plothole? You know what, I'm tired of this. I'll play this your way. It IS a plothole, and you can't argue that. There.

He was also glowing with his Avatar color, so it was probably a mix of both, especially since Endrance has been known to use his AIDA and Avatar powers in conjunction, before. Dumbass.

And it's not a plothole because it can be explained. A true plothole would be something like Tabby seeing an Avatar in normal space.

[Persongus]

He used AIDA to pass through that wall. That's what the BLACK SPOTS WERE. Besides, how do you know this isn't a plothole? You know what, I'm tired of this. I'll play this your way. It IS a plothole, and you can't argue that. There.

He was also glowing with his Avatar color, so it was probably a mix of both, especially since Endrance has been known to use his AIDA and Avatar powers in conjunction, before. Dumbass.

And it's not a plothole because it can be explained. A true plothole would be something like Tabby seeing an Avatar in normal space.

*Eye twitch* I hereby decree it is a plothole that the audience didn't care. Ever. Through all the stuff that happens in the arena. Explain now. Besides, when did he use his Avatar and AIDA together?

[Azure crow]

The fact that
Endrance had his name down,and appeared on the entrance stand instead of the middle of the arena suggests he was entering in a rule-abiding way.
No rule says you can't enter after,it usually just dosn't happen.
I'm going for the idea that Endrance simply entered via the gate and waiting room.After all,there isn't a set time that both parties must enter,as they enter at there leisure,so it stands to reason that they don't all have to enter at once.

[AuraTwilight]

*Eye twitch* I hereby decree it is a plothole that the audience didn't care. Ever. Through all the stuff that happens in the arena. Explain now. Besides, when did he use his Avatar and AIDA together?

The common players of Za Warudo have always been stupid as bricks. That's not a plot hole, that's an established rule. As for when he used Avatar and AIDA together..um....liek, going through the wall, and liek....all of those Arena fights.

You know.

The fact that
Endrance had his name down,and appeared on the entrance stand instead of the middle of the arena suggests he was entering in a rule-abiding way.
No rule says you can't enter after,it usually just dosn't happen.
I'm going for the idea that Endrance simply entered via the gate and waiting room.After all,there isn't a set time that both parties must enter,as they enter at there leisure,so it stands to reason that they don't all have to enter at once.

I still disagree without any evidence and call Endrance a CHEATING WHORE. Just like Nana at Monopoly.

[Azure crow]

The fact that
Endrance had his name down,and appeared on the entrance stand instead of the middle of the arena suggests he was entering in a rule-abiding way.
No rule says you can't enter after,it usually just dosn't happen.
I'm going for the idea that Endrance simply entered via the gate and waiting room.After all,there isn't a set time that both parties must enter,as they enter at there leisure,so it stands to reason that they don't all have to enter at once.

I still disagree without any evidence and call Endrance a CHEATING WHORE. Just like Nana at Monopoly.

without a solid rule that says "all entrants must enter at the same time,we can't clear this up,really.
But I'm still going with what I said due to him bring atop the arena entry pillar when he warped in,whereas he could simply have appeared in the middle of it.ot beside Haseo,to save himself some time.

[Jimbob]

Cutscene. Looks cool. Stop thinking about it.

[Persongus]

*Eye twitch* I hereby decree it is a plothole that the audience didn't care. Ever. Through all the stuff that happens in the arena. Explain now. Besides, when did he use his Avatar and AIDA together?

The common players of Za Warudo have always been stupid as bricks. That's not a plot hole, that's an established rule. As for when he used Avatar and AIDA together..um....liek, going through the wall, and liek....all of those Arena fights.

You know.

That habit of yours really annoys me. Assuming that you're going to be the argument's winner and using that as 'evidence'. If you weren't paying attention, we're talking about Endrance walking through the wall. And as to the Arena fights, I see no reason to believe the AIDA helped, but I won't argue since you're stubborn as a mule. I'll leave you with your opinion and I'll keep mine untainted. And yes, the common players have shown to be stupid, but never so stupid that they didn't talk about something unusual. They just came up with all this incorrect crap about it.

The fact that
Endrance had his name down,and appeared on the entrance stand instead of the middle of the arena suggests he was entering in a rule-abiding way.
No rule says you can't enter after,it usually just dosn't happen.
I'm going for the idea that Endrance simply entered via the gate and waiting room.After all,there isn't a set time that both parties must enter,as they enter at there leisure,so it stands to reason that they don't all have to enter at once.

I still disagree without any evidence and call Endrance a CHEATING WHORE. Just like Nana at Monopoly.

I lol at that, but I hope you're just joking. I mean, it's about equal probability. We have our reasons for thinking our way, and you have pulled barely enough together to argue.

Because Endrance's Skill is Instant Death, not Enter Arena Illegally. Duh, AT.

For all they know, it's part of a skill set.

(I'm responding to this now because I couldn't think of the answer back when it would have been helpful. Sorry, everyone.)
But Skills don't freaking GO OUTSIDE THE GAME ENGINE! If he had to use his Avatar, it's illegal, and therefore could not be a Skill. Therefore it would have been cheating. Therefore there would have been a response from somewhere. The commentator, the crowd, the forums, it could have been anywhere, but it wasn't.

[AuraTwilight]

That habit of yours really annoys me. Assuming that you're going to be the argument's winner and using that as 'evidence'. If you weren't paying attention, we're talking about Endrance walking through the wall. And as to the Arena fights, I see no reason to believe the AIDA helped, but I won't argue since you're stubborn as a mule. I'll leave you with your opinion and I'll keep mine untainted. And yes, the common players have shown to be stupid, but never so stupid that they didn't talk about something unusual. They just came up with all this incorrect crap about it.

According to the Perfect Guidebook, (and the fact that Endrance uses the same aura used by Bordeaux and Taihaku and other arena AIDA-PCs), Endrance was using AIDA and Macha together to win his fights. Checkmate.

But Skills don't freaking GO OUTSIDE THE GAME ENGINE! If he had to use his Avatar, it's illegal, and therefore could not be a Skill. Therefore it would have been cheating. Therefore there would have been a response from somewhere. The commentator, the crowd, the forums, it could have been anywhere, but it wasn't.

It could be that the player just doesn't hear it due to it wrecking the dramatic moment of Haseo/Endrance VS Bordeaux, or something. Or maybe at this point, it's so redundant that they stopped doing it since the player got the point. After all, no one said anything when Maxwell (Taihaku's sword) started moving on it's own and then tried to infect Haseo.