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I know this has been pointed out a million times, the continuity error with -COOH's class, how she calls herself a "Harvest Cleric" despite wielding a Grimoire. Has it been established what she is?

But another one that doesn't seem to have been discussed is Marian, because she kinda goes unnoticed.

Some of you are probably familiar with Marian as the PC in Breg Epona... even though she's been posting on the boards since Rebirth, and was in the arena in Reminisce.

I always figured the arena was THE end-all-be-all way of determining one's class (as opposed to merely seeing what they wield, since you don't know for sure if someone's not an Adept Rogue) since it says it in the team info.

So in Reminisce, the team "Board Lover" (not sure if it's available in Redemption) has a PC named Marian, who according to the team stats is a Harvest Cleric.

Except... just now in Redemption, I saved Marian (As in, Breg Epona Marian) from a PK... and she was wielding a BLADE!

So... are there two Marians? Did they mess up? The idea of her being an Adept Rogue seems out of the question since the arena didn't call her one.



I guess the best way to check would be to pull up Reminisce and fight "Board Lover" and see if the Marian from there looks the same as the one we see walking around in Redemption... I don't have access right now.

They are characters who transcend the system! The new type of Xth form has been born!

..or not. I'll check my Vol.1 save if I have the time, now if you'll excuse me..

It's vol 2, not 1. Marian is only on the boards in 1.

Normally I would assume it is a different character they gave the same name but didn't realize.

Except... Stella also shares the same trait: Shows up in vol 1 on the boards, vol 2 in the arena (a Blade Brandier), and vol 3 finally a tradeable PC walking around (and still a BB when you save her).

Hmm... ಠ3ಠ

As someone who spent HOURS reading the boards, talking to PCs, and fighting in the Arena against ALL teams, i'm very surprised that i don't recognize Marian at all D: I perfectly remember characters like Nogmung, 1/2, AppleStar, Encephalon, etc., and even how they look like and what classes they are...but NOTHING about Marian D8

However, it could just be that they are different characters with the same name (which wasn't the same in japanese), or just an inconsistency they didn't bother to check and fix. What they did in GU was to create the PC models first, then give them names, then add all the text/posts/stuffz with the characters, and then give them classes/weapons/etc., and sometimes those classes and weapons don't fit with the text and posts they gave them. In -COOH's case, she was meant to be a Harvest Cleric from the model and the stuff she says, however in the last "step" they gave her the class and the weapons of a Shadow Warlock (so, she is a Shadow Warlock...she was just meant to be a Harvest Cleric at first).

-COOH is not the only one that suffers from such inconsistency...I don't remember names but there's plenty of characters in the Arena that, when you talk to them or read their posts, their classes and weapons don't match to what they claim to be. There's also a few cases where the Arena description says they're a certain class (Blade Brandier for example), and they're something different once you fight them (like Lord Partizan). And no, there's no Adept Rogues. The only characters defined in the game as Adept Rogues are Haseo, Matsu, and Sophora, and Haseo is the only one who can actually change weapons (Matsu gets his character model replaced in the battle, so more like changing weapons it's more like he changes appearances altogether). It's a fun theory to think that such "inconsistencies" with PCs are because they're Adept Rogues, but in reality, they were just given a class that doesn't match the rest of the descriptions, and they didn't bother checking and fixing the issues with them.

TheSorrow wrote:Hmm... ಠ3ಠ

As someone who spent HOURS reading the boards, talking to PCs, and fighting in the Arena against ALL teams, i'm very surprised that i don't recognize Marian at all D: I perfectly remember characters like Nogmung, 1/2, AppleStar, Encephalon, etc., and even how they look like and what classes they are...but NOTHING about Marian D8

However, it could just be that they are different characters with the same name (which wasn't the same in japanese), or just an inconsistency they didn't bother to check and fix. What they did in GU was to create the PC models first, then give them names, then add all the text/posts/stuffz with the characters, and then give them classes/weapons/etc., and sometimes those classes and weapons don't fit with the text and posts they gave them. In -COOH's case, she was meant to be a Harvest Cleric from the model and the stuff she says, however in the last "step" they gave her the class and the weapons of a Shadow Warlock (so, she is a Shadow Warlock...she was just meant to be a Harvest Cleric at first).

-COOH is not the only one that suffers from such inconsistency...I don't remember names but there's plenty of characters in the Arena that, when you talk to them or read their posts, their classes and weapons don't match to what they claim to be. There's also a few cases where the Arena description says they're a certain class (Blade Brandier for example), and they're something different once you fight them (like Lord Partizan). And no, there's no Adept Rogues. The only characters defined in the game as Adept Rogues are Haseo, Matsu, and Sophora, and Haseo is the only one who can actually change weapons (Matsu gets his character model replaced in the battle, so more like changing weapons it's more like he changes appearances altogether). It's a fun theory to think that such "inconsistencies" with PCs are because they're Adept Rogues, but in reality, they were just given a class that doesn't match the rest of the descriptions, and they didn't bother checking and fixing the issues with them.

I also spend hours doing exactly that, and I figured that was precisely the case with -COOH. Does she talk about being a Harvest Cleric in Japanese too?

However... the fact that in the Arena some people wield different things when you fight them than when you look at their team info, is news to me. Can you give me an example of someone like that (and their team)? I haven't come across one, you sure you weren't looking at the wrong person on the field?

As for Adept Rogues... well, I wouldn't think people with inconsistencies like that are Adept Rogues, as long as the Arena doesn't define them as such. And it's silly to say -COOH is an Adept Rogue if she calls herself something else. Just a character with inconsistencies.
However, you are wrong about there being no Adept Rogues other than Haseo, Sophora, and Matsu. Sagittarius is an Adept Rogue. She mentions being one on the boards, and I think when you talk to her in town. And, to be consistent, the arena DOES identify her as an Adept Rogue. But, there are no random Adept Rogues I don't think, just Sagittarius because she said so. However, pretty sure I have only ever seen her wield a Twin Blade.
There are other frequent board users that talk about being Adept Rogues, but are never in town or the arena (like Kagari).
BTW, how do we know Sophora is an Adept Rogue and not a Twin Blade? I don't recall any canon statement anywhere in the game indicating such, and I've only seen Sophora wield Twin Blades, when you fight her during the Moon Tree raid and when you see her fighting Gomoras at Morrigu Barrow. Don't get me wrong, I believe you, but I'm just asking where this is official information from.

PS, what IS Encephalon's class? You say you know it, but I have never seen him talk about it on the boards or in town, he's not on any Arena teams, and I have never ONCE saved him being PKed (at least in Rebirth and Reminisce in my recent playthrough paying attention, I have yet to do the PKK campaign in Redemption, wouldn't be surprised if he's a Flick Reaper or Macabre Dancer which would explain his absence on the field in the other games).


But anyway... if you have Reminisce handy, can you boot it up and see if Marian looks the same when you fight her?


Finally, there aren't that many users like that. The only one coming to mind is JunePride, who has like three classes. One posts where he talks about encountering a Doppelganger he said he encountered a PK who was 'a Partizan like me" then I think on the boards later he mentions being something else, and then you see a JunePride in the Arena who is a different class than EITHER of those mentioned. HOWEVER, at one point JunePride (on the boards) also says "whisper me at 'Narukami'" and there IS a Narukami in the Arena as well. So that user just has multiple characters.
Goes to show that if a user on the board mentions being a class different than what they appear in the Arena, then you can say they just have multiple characters.

Zak wrote:I also spend hours doing exactly that, and I figured that was precisely the case with -COOH. Does she talk about being a Harvest Cleric in Japanese too?

Yep, because she also complains about Clerics not being good for battles and wishing there'd be a more balanced class and all. It IS probable that she's just complaining about Clerics in general though, even though she's a Warlock herself and she acknolwedges it. I would have to see the original japanese text to confirm that...and, well, ask someone in japanese to translate it since i wouldn't understand a thing. LOL

Zak wrote:However... the fact that in the Arena some people wield different things when you fight them than when you look at their team info, is news to me. Can you give me an example of someone like that (and their team)? I haven't come across one, you sure you weren't looking at the wrong person on the field?

Probably...but i do remember a case like that in Redemption, or at least there's a reason why it was carved in my head that some characters in the Arena used weapons that didn't belong to their team description, and it had to be when i was testing out fun things in the Arena (just challenges and stuffz), which was by post-Redemption. You're asking me for too much since i haven't touched G.U. in like 4 years and your reply totally proved that my memory isn't the most reliable thing 'XD So i could be wrong or i just didn't look at it right...but i still remember something about it.

Zak wrote:However, you are wrong about there being no Adept Rogues other than Haseo, Sophora, and Matsu. Sagittarius is an Adept Rogue. She mentions being one on the boards, and I think when you talk to her in town. And, to be consistent, the arena DOES identify her as an Adept Rogue. But, there are no random Adept Rogues I don't think, just Sagittarius because she said so. However, pretty sure I have only ever seen her wield a Twin Blade.

OH RIGHT, HOW COULD I FORGET ABOUT SAGITTARIUS!?! D8 She was one of my favorite PCs, a poor little Adept Rogue that became part of Kestrel without wanting to (and didn't like it), posted alot in the boards about Adept Rogues, and is even part of one of the highest-level teams in the Arena...which i'm not sure if it was that MOJA team or the Zodiac one...or the one with Nogmung and Syake...or was that MOJA-thingy? Darn, my memory really fails 'XD Also, i first thought she was a male, until i started reading the posts referring to "her", that much i do remember. LOL
Anyways, yeah, she's the 4th Adept Rogue in the games, it even says so in the Arena description and that one is accurate...and yep, she only uses Twin Blades, just like Sophora. I think it was "justified" with her by saying that she didn't pass the Job Extension quest...but i think she passed it eventually D: Either way, the game just never allowed for other characters to change weapons in the middle of a battle, and there's no scripted event or alternate character model or anything for poor little Sagittarius. Nor is for Sophora, for that matter, only Matsu (and Haseo, of course) got that privilege D:

Zak wrote:BTW, how do we know Sophora is an Adept Rogue and not a Twin Blade? I don't recall any canon statement anywhere in the game indicating such, and I've only seen Sophora wield Twin Blades, when you fight her during the Moon Tree raid and when you see her fighting Gomoras at Morrigu Barrow. Don't get me wrong, I believe you, but I'm just asking where this is official information from.

There are actually clues about Sophora being an Adept Rogue. First of all, he's part of the Healing Corps in Moon Tree, which are all displayed as Harvest Clerics, even though some of them are part of a black ops division that PK people in VERY BAD ways (that last bit of info isn't part of the GU games though); so they're either Adept Rogues, or very aggressive Harvest Clerics (LIKE HENAKO 8DDD). Then, if you check through the game's data (which has LOTS of secrets and stuffz that only makes you sad that they weren't part of the final version), you'll see a staff called "Warning Chord", Rarity 5 with an unique model and nothing else since it's incomplete (and glitchy to use, only through codes of course)...Sophora's Twin Blades are called "Binding Chord", so that hint couldn't get any more obvious. And, lastly, there's voice data recorded for Sophora's healing skills like Repth and Rip Maen, and it's UNIQUE voice data, not used by any other character in the game. Obviously every other playable character has data recorded for such skills...but characters like Sirius, Hiiragi or Sakaki don't have them, since they never use them, and neither does Sophora, but apparently he was meant to. It really seems like they intended Sophora to use both weapons and skills in the battle...but for one reason or another, they didn't do it, just like they didn't do plenty of other things in the games but were planning to D:
But of course, if these are all vague assumptions to you that could still not be true (and they were, his class was still pretty debatable by GU times), it was fully confirmed in .Hack//Alcor, a manga which is ALL about Yuasa, the real player behind Sophora and another character called Nanase (who got into pretty lulzy things with Silabus and Alkaid...yep, Sophora knows Silabus. lol) and in some books, such like .Hack//Truth and .Hack//The Perfect Guidebook, FULL of OFFICIAL material about the GU series and pretty much everything, including real names of characters and revelations and stuff. All worth reading, they even say who Gabi really is!! o3o lol

Also, i say "he" because the Sophora PC was confirmed to be Male, even though the player is a little teen girl who was obsessed with Alkaid. lol

Zak wrote:PS, what IS Encephalon's class? You say you know it, but I have never seen him talk about it on the boards or in town, he's not on any Arena teams, and I have never ONCE saved him being PKed (at least in Rebirth and Reminisce in my recent playthrough paying attention, I have yet to do the PKK campaign in Redemption, wouldn't be surprised if he's a Flick Reaper or Macabre Dancer which would explain his absence on the field in the other games).

...Blade Brandier? You do see him around the towns, and he's like a Nogmung with blue clothing but pretty much the same. Or at least, that's what i remember about him, and i even remember that i used to refer to him as Vergil because of those looks XD But of course, you can tell that my memory with those details is quite faulty, and i'm probably confusing him with someone else. But i even remember him giving one of those "gift" items and saying that ""He" is very thankful to you" or something like that!! D8 ...Or maybe i just dreamed it. Hell, maybe i just dreamed i played G.U. and never really did, and if so ignore my whole rambles D: LOL

Zak wrote:But anyway... if you have Reminisce handy, can you boot it up and see if Marian looks the same when you fight her?

The fact that i haven't touched G.U. in so many years probably speaks for itself that i don't really have Reminisce handy to boot and check 'XD I can't really play PS2 games anymore, unless i play them on my computer (emulator and stuffz), but that would mean restarting the game anyways so...i don't think i can really go check that anytime soon D:

Zak wrote:Finally, there aren't that many users like that. The only one coming to mind is JunePride, who has like three classes. One posts where he talks about encountering a Doppelganger he said he encountered a PK who was 'a Partizan like me" then I think on the boards later he mentions being something else, and then you see a JunePride in the Arena who is a different class than EITHER of those mentioned. HOWEVER, at one point JunePride (on the boards) also says "whisper me at 'Narukami'" and there IS a Narukami in the Arena as well. So that user just has multiple characters.
Goes to show that if a user on the board mentions being a class different than what they appear in the Arena, then you can say they just have multiple characters.

Probably, and there's plenty of mentions of players using different characters. There's that one creepy guy in the NA00's Knights who is actually controlled by some cool guy with another PC that he uses just fine. And there's some who talk about changing to/from Adept Rogues to something else. That could explain some differences, but not all. Still, i blame most of them for inconsistencies and perhaps faulty translations, as both cases are very common in the GU games and not just when it comes to PCs >3>