dothackers.net

Basically, we discus Haseo's personality, who he could conceivably develop a relationship with, who he couldn't...
Whether or not things like Alcor and Cell are part of the same canon as GU, if the relationships between characters in those stories is to be believed or taken with a grain of salt...
And whether the content of what is actually written on the greeting cards...

Very well, if anyone has read the 'Favorite Marriage Scene' thread, you'll know what sparked this... If not...go do it! I don't want to type that WALL OF TEXT up again....

Cell is canon, and I don't see any reason why Alcor isn't. I don't know if theres an official sources, but theres no reason for Alcor not to be considered canon. No real event, personality, design, information change that I recall. The only thing would be Alkaid's friendliness with Silabus and Gaspard. You might expect them to exchange friendly dialogue in the game, but it isn't like they talked and said they never met. Even if there was something a little more you might reach for retcon before non canon.

I remember reading that anime = canon and manga = noncanon. Again though, my fiancee is the one who has the entire history of .hack memorized and I've only really seen the animes and played the games, and she's not around for me to ask if she knows.


Anyways, in all seriousness: Haseo can seriously be with almost anyone. Spending time together and overcoming trials together leads to strong attachments and possible romantic interests. This is one reason I'm opposed to pairing Haseo with Alkaid: she just isn't around long enough for them to really devellop anything, especially considering how they started off. He has more of a chance to bond with Saku than with Alkaid, and that's saying something.

Who does it really not make too much sense for Haseo to end up with? First off, Bordeaux is hardly in the party long enough and the fact that you can even get her member address made me go "LOLWUT?" Second, as much as I love Kaede, I have to say the same thing about her, and the same goes for Natsume as well (and may I remind you Natsume doesn't have a wedding scene). Alkaid is much the same, though she's closer to "debatable" than Bordeaux and Kaede. By "debatable" characters I mean Shino and Tabby, who, despite playing the game with Haseo early on, lose points for not being there for so long, although Shino is closer to "likely" than Tabby because of how hard and how long Haseo fought to try to save her whereas Tabby leaving to study to become a Nurse.

So really this leaves Atoli, Pi, and Saku and Endrance if Haseo swung that way, as the four most likely characters who have marriage scenes as actual partners for Haseo. And let's face it... Saku is an 11 year old boy with multiple personalities, even if it is the female personality, and all hints (emails with Kuhn, etc) point to Haseo being straight so Saku and Endrance are out. Atoli vs Pi? I laughed at Pi's marriage clip when she was all "what?" about Haseo's "What I sent you wasn't a greeting card" line, but in all seriousness, I think Atoli is a better choice than pi.

And there's my logic outside of my emotional attachments (Myself = Haseo and my Fiancee = Atoli, personality wise, except unlike Haseo I can express myself better)

Its really not that simple.


Legends anime = Non canon


XXXX, G.U. +, Link = all manga not cannon.

Edit: Wait, I think I did that a little wrong. I should have given examples of manga that are canon. Legends, Alcor should be. Anyways you should get the point.

Tolby wrote:Its really not that simple.


Legends anime = Non canon


XXXX, G.U. +, Link = all manga not cannon.

Edit: Wait, I think I did that a little wrong. I should have given examples of manga that are canon. Legends, Alcor should be. Anyways you should get the point.

Interesting... and yeah, like I said, I really need to get my fiancee to fill me in since I've only seen 5 or 6 episodes of Roots and haven't had a chance to watch any other anime (not counting .hack//SIGN) and I haven't had a chance to read any of the manga at all.

I can't help with Cell, it's an amazing story, but, as it's a pair of novella, not many people have made scans... so I had to buy my copy of part 1... still working on part 2 in between paying my parents back for failed college courses (I couldn't help it I had no means of transportation...at all) and getting a PS3 so I can finally play the FF13 my friend gave me...(And MGS4 of course)...

As for Alcor, MangaFox has part of it... though really the best chapter(and the longest) is the last chapter, and is missing, which I suppose allows it to fit into terms of 'Fair use' and I can link it...

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hack_alcor/v01/c001/

What I like most about it is the fact that Nanase and Alkaid use the same model, but they both have different accoutrements and colorations... you can tell they are the same, but you'd never get them confused... (I like Nanase's design better...)

It should be noted that 'Nanase' from Alcor and 'Nasase Mitabi' from GU games(Random PC) are of no relation at all. It's likely that Nanase Mitabi is named such due to Nanase being taken... just as b1u3 is names because BLUE, bLUE, blue, Blue, and bLuE were all taken...(Shows how original people can be with names... though it is realistic)

As for Retcon... I hate it... because it always causes issues with one thing or another...(SOLDIER 1st wears purple, not black!!)

I think the concept behind Midori is very interesting... she's both terrified, attracted to, and quite literally turned on by the concept of dying...

I was mad at the ending of Cell vol1 (Before I realized there were 2 volumes...)

The last few lines in the book are descriptive of a certain character who happens to be an AI "Dissolving into the infinite sea of data..." leading me to think that character had... eh... 'died.'

It's a great book... even if it is short... The chapter title pages are really nice because they have a sort of Film-Noir-esque black and white sketch on each one... usually of some scene somewhere... They're quite beautifully drawn.

I found it funny how Midori meets up with Haseo, and party's up with Silabus and Gaspard... and they never meet...

I also find it amusing that Midori seems to have a very small crush on Haseo because he's so good at killing...

she describes him as 'extremely powerful, and a bit frightening. In terms of levels, you could go higher, but just looking at Haseo, this Terror of Death, was enough to defeat most players.'

Or something to that extent.



But the real reason I can't figure Alcor out is the fact that Silabus and Alkaid, seem really closely connected, like they've been good friends for a long time. Alkaid is often seen hanging out in Canard's @Home....

In the games Silabus even fights Alkaid in the arena, and never mentions that he knows her, nor does Alkaid take notice of the fact that he's there. Again, all due to the fact that Alcor came out after Reminisce... but still... that's pretty heavy Retcon there... I LIKE it... but I find it had to believe... like those dreams I have where my life stops feeling like it's falling apart and actually feels... genuinely good... I love them... but I can't believe in such a thing.


Also, I said before that 'large amounts of time would have to pass canonically for people to like eachother in the same way that is implied by the affection meter' so if you consider Bordeaux partying with Haseo for a few weeks, or even months... it's not that far fetched...

I'll explain why I use Bordeaux so much... Haseo is an obsession to Bordeaux... Because he continually is one step ahead of her, all she can think about is him... while at first it started out as purely spiteful and dark colored thoughts of killing him, it ended up changing. That's because if you spend enough time thinking about something you hate, so much time that you observe every single aspect of it, you begin to come to terms with it.

For instance... when I first started the IMOQ series... and for a very long time after... I absolutely hated Blackrose... Now she happens to be one of my favorite characters (I'd say in the top 10 at the least) For that matter I despised Lios, but now I don't... In fact I respect Lios for the fact that he had the conviction to go against the written law in order to make the game right, even if it meant doing things the 'wrong' way to do it.

Hell, I even like Piros a little bit in terms of comic relief...

Ah, here's one. I HATED Shino for a long time... then suddenly I didn't.

Simply put, Bordeaux sees Haseo as a goal... whether it be beating, matching, or loving him, he is something she aspires to and for.

She kills because she finds that is the way the game is meant to be for her. So, killing Haseo is one way she wants to have fun with him. She and Haseo are two sides of the same coin essentially... He's good at killing, but does so for his reasons, she's good at killing but does so for her reasons.

Also note that After a certain point in the series, she stops being as well known a PK as she was in the beginning. I think it's because she simply doesn't find as much fun in the easy kills as she did while striving to be better than Haseo.

Hell, there's evidence that she likes him simply in the fact that she returns his emails... If you really hated someone would YOU give them your member address and return their emails?

I think Atoli said it best that "deep down everyone just wants to get along with eachother" the caveat is that they may not THINK they do.

I take Bordeaux's AIDA battle as a good piece of evidence. She took the AIDA specifically to beat Haseo... she even quotes that she wants to show him her power... She was being Atoli, throwing a tantrum in her own way... she was screaming "Look at me!" silently with every word.

She really suits the black widow archetype perfectly, as that which she knows she wants to kill, is also that which she knows she wants to be with... She even says as much, even if she feigns sarcasm when she does so.

Alkaid is another prime example of obsessive hatred becoming love. She hated Haseo for defeating her, but she knew he was powerful, and she knew he was the only way she could save Sirius, so even though she didn't care for him, she trusted him enough for that split second, and eventually that tiny crack eroded at her until she could no longer feel ill feelings toward him.

Different reasons, but the outcome is the same.

Pi however, I simply can't see... even if they get along while they're fighting, they're still fighting constantly... even if Haseo admitted he loved her, which I also can't see happening, Pi still thinks about Yata first and foremost. People have breakdowns all around her and she shrugs it off, but as soon as Yata starts having issues, she flips the hell out and becomes a frightened confused little girl not knowing what to do next.

I could SEE her in a relationship with Kuhn, maybe, but she'll never let go of Yata...


I do find it funny though, that out of the entire group of people who meet Haseo, they all like in at some point or another...
Sakaki included. I'm sure (if he could remember what he'd been doing) he'd have been thankful Haseo was there to give him such a wonderful platform for his manipulations. They are quite similar if you think about it.

Sakaki is who Sora was, just wearing a different mask. A manipulative, strong, character, played by a 10 year old boy, with delusions of grandeur. I think if they'd met under different circumstances, they have gotten along quite well.

For that matter they probably could now, with Sakaki having lost his memory of the AIDA events and probably Haseo as well... With Haseo being a much less single minded person, having accomplished his goal... I could very easily see him shrugging off Sakaki as a completely new person.

It comes to this: Sakaki disliked Haseo for his overly violent way of looking at things, Haseo disliked Sakaki for Sakaki's behavior against him. Sakaki even had good intentions, if they were a bit skewed...


My point is that even though he isn't the most agreeable person, Haseo could get along with just about anyone if given enough time. I'm not saying he'd marry Pi, turn gay for Endrance or go on a PKing spree with Bordeaux, but does he get along with them?

Sure.

Bordeaux's is one of those one-sided relationships that seem to be all over the place in G.U., but she and Haseo get a lot more development than Haseo and Alkaid <_<

I could actually, scarily, see Pi with Haseo... especially once she eases up on him and they start getting along better. It does happen, believe it or not.

Haseo and Atoli are the best match, as demonstrated in pretty much every alternate telling of GU. There's a reason the two gain the most character development out of each other than any other pair.

That, and taking away Haseo's clear interest in Atoli kind've takes away from the purpose of Atoli's existence in every sense of the word.

AuraTwilight wrote:That, and taking away Haseo's clear interest in Atoli kind've takes away from the purpose of Atoli's existence in every sense of the word.

You don't think that Atoli learning to believe in herself and stand on her own two feet (an issue that teenagers world-over grapple with) is enough?

Ganheim wrote:

AuraTwilight wrote:That, and taking away Haseo's clear interest in Atoli kind've takes away from the purpose of Atoli's existence in every sense of the word.

You don't think that Atoli learning to believe in herself and stand on her own two feet (an issue that teenagers world-over grapple with) is enough?

I do find it almost a counterargument in and of itself that people keep using the concept of "Atoli only exists to be a love interest for Haseo" as their argument.

I think it's funny how Endrance's speech ties in to this... "Kind words are not always truly kind once spoken."

Using Atoli's reason existence as a love interest for Haseo and nothing more, seems kind of like you don't really like her despite what saying you do. By saying that, you're condemning her existence to that of the token damsel in distress...

Also it doesn't help the argument that she has any kind of entitlement to Haseo's affection, because "her reason for existence" is not a canon plot point, but rather a developmental idea.

Unless you expect God or some Supreme Programmer to come down and specifically tell you why you exist, you can't really use that as a logical argument, if you consider the plot as being someone's actual life.

If you want to look at it as a game, then yes, "she" is entitled to "his" "affection" just as much as any"one" else in the series. Because the programmers made it so when they compiled the C or whatever into PS2 assembly language...

Just like you can't, from the standpoint of Haseo, say that Piros the third exists to be a caricature or Hiroshi Matsuyama(sp?), you can't say anything about the reason for Atoli's existence, because from a canonical point of view, they were not programmed into existence, they are not voiced by Yuri Lowenthal and Bridget Hoffman, and their conversations are not predetermined sequences of events.

If you want to throw 'reason for existence' into the argument, then you are defaulting to the correlated argument that neither of them is even capable of feeling, nonetheless feeling love for one another.


I would also like to agree with Megaby--Ganheim that Atoli's manic-depressive episodes, borderline personality disorder issues, and peer pressure themes related directly to her age group, are more important than the fact that she has a crush on someone she met online...


EDIT: I'd also like to apologize if I got a little heated previously... my meds ran out a few weeks ago and I've been (or so I'm told) pretty irritable for a while now... I'd like to point out that I'm not trying to be harsh or mean by this post in any way, I'm just trying to point out the schism in the logic.

...Yeah, I guess you're right. I do have a tendency to parrot other people, and get upset when people disagree with them... I guess it's more the fact that I exhibit traits of both Haseo and Atoli that I like them together so much. XD

...and also it's a really scary thought to think that if they were real, I could be related to them... o_O

I've just 'discovered' something...

Nuke and Rachel's comedy team's name in English is 'New Creatures...'

That is not actually the translation of the name, but rather a bad romanization.

The team is actually called Nuke-Rachel. Nuke, in the original Jp, was "Nyuuku" and Rachel was "Reicheru" The comedy team name is NyuukuReicheru...

Chalk that one up to 'bad outside material.' I suppose, except that it's the inside material...


I just thought that was interesting enough to share.

Now that I think about it, that makes a lot of sense. XD

Ganheim wrote:

AuraTwilight wrote:That, and taking away Haseo's clear interest in Atoli kind've takes away from the purpose of Atoli's existence in every sense of the word.

You don't think that Atoli learning to believe in herself and stand on her own two feet (an issue that teenagers world-over grapple with) is enough?

Which happened only because of, you know, Haseo.

Even still, as far as narrative goes, she exists to be a foil to Shino's character and act as a catalyst for Haseo's character development. This can't work if we don't take into account the romantic tension between them.

I do find it almost a counterargument in and of itself that people keep using the concept of "Atoli only exists to be a love interest for Haseo" as their argument.

That's not what I was saying at all; don't put words in my mouth.

Also it doesn't help the argument that she has any kind of entitlement to Haseo's affection, because "her reason for existence" is not a canon plot point, but rather a developmental idea.

Er, yes, it does. Her "reason for existence" was refering not just to her development, but also her in-universe soul-searching as an individual. Her relationship to Haseo not only creates a foil between Shino and Atoli that develops Haseo's character, but it also creates a foil between Sakaki and Haseo, developing Atoli's character. No other characters in GU have this relationship with Haseo.

Unless you expect God or some Supreme Programmer to come down and specifically tell you why you exist, you can't really use that as a logical argument, if you consider the plot as being someone's actual life.

What the f*ck are you talking about?

Just like you can't, from the standpoint of Haseo, say that Piros the third exists to be a caricature or Hiroshi Matsuyama(sp?), you can't say anything about the reason for Atoli's existence, because from a canonical point of view, they were not programmed into existence, they are not voiced by Yuri Lowenthal and Bridget Hoffman, and their conversations are not predetermined sequences of events.

Except you can. Anyway, I wasn't talking about development details like voice actors, I was talking about narrative themes and storyboarding, which is deliberately inseparable from the canonical plot.

If you want to throw 'reason for existence' into the argument, then you are defaulting to the correlated argument that neither of them is even capable of feeling, nonetheless feeling love for one another.

Again, no one is saying this. Stop putting words in my mouth, it makes you look like an enormous asshole.

I would also like to agree with Megaby--Ganheim that Atoli's manic-depressive episodes, borderline personality disorder issues, and peer pressure themes related directly to her age group, are more important than the fact that she has a crush on someone she met online...

Yes, but these issues are only able to be tackled with Haseo's emotional support. Her mental problems stem completely from the fact that she has no one that loves her for who she is, which is exactly why her issues tie into her relationship with Haseo.

I wasn't even directing a single one of those comments at you AT...

I was commenting on things other people have said, perhaps not all in the same thread. When I said 'people keep saying,' I actually mean people in general. I've been hearing that same line from multiple people here, and from people I know in real life...

Anyway, I'm tired of talking about Atoli so I'll attempt to refrain from doing so... read into that however you like.

I wasn't even directing a single one of those comments at you AT...

That, and taking away Haseo's clear interest in Atoli kind've takes away from the purpose of Atoli's existence in every sense of the word.

I do find it almost a counterargument in and of itself that people keep using the concept of "Atoli only exists to be a love interest for Haseo" as their argument.

Don't lie to me. Regardless of your intent, you only brought it up because of what I said. If there was truly nothing in the thread explicitly relevant, then you just made a big long rant for absolutely no reason, aimed at no one intended in the thread. It was either directed towards me, in part, or nonsense.

In part, possibly, but not at you directly. If you were the first to make the point then I suppose the trail leads back to you.

I never said no one in the thread, I said not necessarily all the comments were made in this thread.

In any case, my intent was not to offend, and I was referring to people who said her only purpose for existing is Haseo, which according to you was not what you said, so therefor, not directed at you.

This comment is part of what I meant...

...Er, Atoli is kind of entitled to having Haseo, she doesn't really have much other purpose in the series XD

As she already said, GippyGirl was parroting someone, if that happened to be you, I suppose I see why my comment offended you.

I seem to remember multiple uses of that phrase in the same thread, but I don't feel like looking for them.

Beside the on forum comments, my ex has used the phrase to justify things as well, despite being a massive advocate of Haseo/Endrance...

Regardless of the reason, I apologize for offending you. You really weren't the one whom I was intending to direct that rant toward.


All of that aside, I still say it's entirely possible for Haseo to get along with Bordeaux.

Sorry, I didn't mean to blow up at you either; but it's kind of one of my hotbuttons where I can't stand the thought of someone putting words in my mouth or generalizing what I'm saying into some bigger group it doesn't belong in, so I snapped.