Massive Spoiler Thread

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AuraTwilight
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by AuraTwilight »

Kuukai wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure he fully realizes it even without the AIDA, but the AIDA seems to pump up all his emotions to the verge of insanity. The AIDA is actually stuck on him due to his unusually strong feelings. AIKA can usually remove them, but this one couldn't get out of Haseo's head if it wanted to. The way I like to think about it, his extremely strong will might be the very thing that prevented him from ever being infected in the normal G.U. timeline, but due to changes in the timeline it had the exact opposite effect. The very last piece of Haseo's faith in other people was probably inadvertently shattered by Tokio when he sent Haseo to stop Shino from being PKed. After Ovan leaving, Sakisaki giving up, and the loss of Shino, the fact that Tokio apparently knew this was going to happen the whole time (via Saika's research) and wouldn't tell him why was too much for Haseo, he became even more cynical. Also, thanks to AIKA, AIDA activity against normal players is all but halted, so if Haseo's vulnerable he's like some sort of mega-feast for the AIDA left.

This all leads to Haseo surpassing Ovan's expectations for him. Ovan cuts off his plan before Haseo fights all the Avatars because he's already strong enough to defeat him. His rage towards Ovan at this point is what spawns a B-st form Vagrant AI. It's kinda a stretch, but they explain that pretty well. Again, Haseo's will > anyone's.

This is the "Massive Spoiler Thread" so no one should mind, but I already responded to your PM so that should be good in any case...
You know, this almost made me forget why //Link pisses me off. Do this for the whole game, demmit. >_>
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|<!73
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

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Just for boredum, how did everyone feel about Zelkova appearing on Granwhale. For me it was suprising. Also another question does anyone think the Xth form are similar to Flugel's battle form? I know they're for out of game, but I did notice Flugel would move between the two after. Is it the same concept?
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

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|<!73 wrote:Just for boredum, how did everyone feel about Zelkova appearing on Granwhale. For me it was suprising.
It's Zelkova. Expect surprises from him. :P
|<!73 wrote:Also another question does anyone think the Xth form are similar to Flugel's battle form? I know they're for out of game, but I did notice Flugel would move between the two after. Is it the same concept?
Most likely. In G.U. terms, it wouldn't, but Tokio's was the only exception....Sort of. In //Link, the achievement of Xth Form looks like it focuses on the "hacking" portion per say. You hack your UPC's character with Virus cores, eventually making them stronger and giving them new weapons and abilities that surpass the system. Fluegel's battle form "does" sound like it fits in that concept.
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by GyppyGirl2021 »

Zelkova randomly popping up out of nowhere seems like something he'd do for the lulz. XD

Man, they didn't remove any of his win, even in this game. I remember seeing his Cross Rengeki for the first time and was like "OMG ZELKOVAAAAAA <333" XD
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Kuukai »

AuraTwilight wrote:You know, this almost made me forget why //Link pisses me off. Do this for the whole game, demmit. >_>
I might actually be able to, imo the story is pretty well thought out. I think the great thing about Link is that even ignoring the Twilight Knights and other "false" links to the past, it truly is a multi-generational epic that finally deals with Aura's solitude, the meaninglessness of AIDA's birth, and the futility of mankind's ambitions. Tokio isn't that bad, either. He's dumb as a brick and wacky as hell, but his merit lies in the fact that he's wise beyond his years. He's the only one to realize why Haseo came to Moon Tree. He's the living antithesis to the main cause of the tragedy: the attitude adopted by the Amagis, Geist, and brainwashed Aura. He pulls his friends closer instead of pushing them away. You can't have a single-person party in Link. He's not the greatest hero The World has ever seen, but he's the right one for this game. His strength comes from others. A gear can't move on its own, but combine many of them and you can move the hands of time and fate. Sure, this is also the main theme of everything, but I thought they did a pretty good job with Link...
|<!73 wrote:Understood. It was just a worry. Didn't see anyone metion it however, he does disappear after the Rebirth. You don't find his PC body or anything. The next time you hear him it was voice only before you get his chrono core. Haseo does reappear in one of the side scenarios but for the most part he basically went boom. (or that's what you assume).
He recovers from it much like he did before, it just takes time (and they never really said it didn't the first time, either). He's there to welcome back Shino and chase after Atoli, though this time you get to see what he says. The thing about Link is no matter what changes everything is pretty much spiritually intact. It pretty much has to be, since what you're trying to do in the first place is stabilize history. Tsukasa's grunty still dies. It's probably the best mix of old and new that you could really ask for...
TheSorrow wrote:What exactly is the "Akashic Line"? That timeline thingy that Tokio uses to travel back to The World's memories? And how did Jyotaro created it?
Akashic Line is a game Jyotaro Amagi created to test real-digitalization, where a special wavelength of light is released from a wireless device turning the users themselves into light, which is then received and interpreted as data. When Tokio played the game in closed beta, it succeeded in digitalizing him for a few seconds. This is probably why he and AIKA had such a strong impact on each other, and why his memory of the game is fuzzy.

Normally only a tiny group of humans, known as Doublewares, can be successfully digitalized by Amagi's method. When seeking out a Doubleware for his scheme, Geist saw Tokio's success in Akashic Line's logs and sent his information to Saika.
|<!73 wrote:Just for boredum, how did everyone feel about Zelkova appearing on Granwhale. For me it was suprising.
I love that we seem to know less about him everytime he does anything. Like I said, pretty good spiritual continuity...
|<!73 wrote:Also another question does anyone think the Xth form are similar to Flugel's battle form? I know they're for out of game, but I did notice Flugel would move between the two after. Is it the same concept?
Well, Fluegel is different since his PC is of his own design and he thinks it's "cool" to change forms depending on the work he needs to do. But yeah, aside from Tokio's Xth form they all seem to be either a hack or a natural progression of The World R:X's job system...
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by GyppyGirl2021 »

Fluegel is cool, so whatever he thinks is cool is cool in my book. XP

Yeah, Tokio seemed a bit... ditzy (not sure if that's the right word), but he seems to have a grasp of the situation, at least...
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Kuukai »

Fluegel's hilarious, I think mainly because of the things he thinks are cool. The world needs more doctors like him. Tokio has a pretty comical relationship with him. Like I said, Tokio is surprisingly sharp, he's able to coerce Fluegel into helping when he doesn't want to...

Well, they made him dense out of necessity, the game can get pretty confusing at times even to hardcore fans, it's because of Tokio we get it broken down for us. I mean, open-ended time travel. I'm surprised that even worked. Usually I was on top of things, but there actually were a few times where I was like "what time period am I in again?" and was glad Toki-Rundy felt the need to explain it to me. And for someone unfamiliar with .hack at all, Tokio is a lifesaver. Link covers a ridiculous amount of material, the built-in database puts FF13's datalog to shame. (Actually, the datalog probably has a lot more text, but I think the database has more topics about a wider range of cruft and assorted trivia)
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by AuraTwilight »

I might actually be able to, imo the story is pretty well thought out. I think the great thing about Link is that even ignoring the Twilight Knights and other "false" links to the past, it truly is a multi-generational epic that finally deals with Aura's solitude, the meaninglessness of AIDA's birth, and the futility of mankind's ambitions.
I've noticed this, but between "Dammit, why does this have to be lodged inside //Link of all things?" Compared with having to go entirely by partial voice acting, frustrated me (I can speak and understand Japanese, but legal blindness makes reading it impossible, and the graphical style of the game and the lack of animation or clear scenes such as in IMOQ and GU make it hard for me to pick up details).
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Keyaki
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Keyaki »

Okay then, Kuukai. Explain, Schicksal to me. I know they were hired by CC Corp and they wanna use the Akashic Records to 'take over The World' but can you explain better? Fluegel as well.
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Kuukai »

It's basically R.A. plan mk II. The Akashic Records, powered by Aura, are the ultimate network administration system. Geist supposedly proposed the whole thing years ago, with ulterior motives unbeknownst to CC. But even though they succeeded in getting Aura into the thing, she closed herself off. Only a doubleware's ability to synchronize and react with nearby data could bypass the stone door she created. The Twilight Knights also appeared, keeping Schicksal busy for a while.

Schicksal, which means "Destiny" if you didn't know, is actually a semi-independent organization hired by CC, though they added Geist after a recommendation. The words they live by are, "no need to be bound by ridiculous rules on the net or in reality." Fluegel was actually a medical scientist researching real-digitalization, and the other members were drawn to his philosophy. Orgel lost his parents to violence when he was young, and suffered from anger issues. Fluegel (who seems to have been his doctor) introduced him to a world where he could outlet his fury to his heart's content. I'm sure a lot of other members had similar circumstances. Obviously real-digitalization fits in with their philosophy, and the Schicksal PCs were created as a step in that direction and as a possible medical technology. The players and their PCs are deeply-linked, along the lines of someone who heard an A note, but they can log out. Obviously, this reflects their philosophy, they can escape and experience the virtual as their new "real," but as system-surpassing PCs they aren't bound by the rules of the virtual world either. Eventually Fluegel came to realize how foolish real-digitalization was, but it was a lot harder for Metronom to accept.

Fluegel says he never really wanted to be a hacker working for Genius, he just needed the money. But from Fluegel's point of view, even though CC pisses him off, they did nothing wrong. They're using their own technology for their own benefit. He was probably also aware that the Twilight Knights weren't real players, so there were very few ethical concerns. (except Aura, obviously, but from his point of view it's possible she was just a computer program or something--in his eyes they're no monsters)

Fluegel's gun is powered by the Records, and I'm sure if they had actually gotten it fully operational they could have done a lot more. After the battle with Aura, the Records are seriously busted and his gun no longer works.

Two failures isn't enough for CC, though, according to Genius there's some new attempt beyond his control (he's no longer president) in 2024... My best guess is that this Sora person was given Kite's PC as some sort of defense mechanism by Aura, who's lost her memories.

EDIT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so, the Brainwashing Virus. It doesn't seem like it really "reprograms" Aura at all, actually. The Queen of Destruction is a possible version of Aura, trying to show her love. Throughout the game Tokio watches Aura grow and learn from the people she comes into contact with. Aura as we saw her in G.U. was a product of all the wisdom she gained. She stopped trying to solve humanity's problems, because she grew to trust in their ability to fend for themselves. She loved humanity, but she respected their abilities and desires as well.

After becoming infected with the virus, Aura started to reject the thoughts of others. She wanted to show her love for humanity by digitalizing everyone and allowing them to live forever in an Immortal Dusk. She believed she was mistaken to simply stand by and watch over others, since they failed to help themselves. Even after being cured of the virus, she continues. Why?

As we see through AIKA, even though on the "outside" Aura seems to remember the past, on the "inside" she's the lost little girl from 11 years ago. She's lost her most important memories, those of the people she's encountered, and even more poetically, she's fighting them. Her own memories are literally trying to save her.

It's AIKA, desperately seeking a meaning to her own spontaneous existence, who's able to guide her out of that room of solitude and towards a new future. And this is presumably what 2024 is about.

As Saika mentions, a connecting thread between all the anti-villains in Link is that even though they intend good, they push others away, even as those others are trying to save them. Like I said before, Tokio is pretty clearly intentionally made to be the opposite of this. Even when Saika tries to push him away and forget the painful past, like the idiot he is he takes the once-a-day bus out to the middle of nowhere, where no one would ever go if they wanted to be found, flowers in hand, totally oblivious to the fact she might be avoiding him. Even if the past is painful, he says it's because he's had that experience with others that he'll be able to overcome any obstacle in the future.

And that is what the virus made Aura forget.

If they do 2024 right I can't conceive of a better ending for the series...

Also let me just say AIKA's death is the saddest freaking thing to ever happen in .hack. It's simultaneously meaningful and meaningless, and ridiculously hard to accept. If she came back it would undermine the whole thing, but I can't say I don't want her to. That wasn't the meaning she was looking for. Jeez, she was such a good character, too: '"Aren't you worried because I'm an AIDA?! I might attach to you! OMNOMNOM"
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

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Geist supposedly proposed the whole thing years ago, with ulterior motives unbeknownst to CC. But even though they succeeded in getting Aura into the thing, she closed herself off. Only a doubleware's ability to synchronize and react with nearby data could bypass the stone door she created. The Twilight Knights also appeared, keeping Schicksal busy for a while.
Huh?
The words they live by are, "no need to be bound by ridiculous rules on the net or in reality."
'Freedom-fighter' Anarchist huh? LOL j/k I get it.
Fluegel was actually a medical scientist researching real-digitalization
Wasn't Amagi the same? Also, what philosophy?
Orgel lost his parents to violence when he was young, and suffered from anger issues.
Well that's painfully obvious LOL
possible medical technology.
Medical tech? How?
The players and their PCs are deeply-linked, along the lines of someone who heard an A note, but they can log out.
So the same strength of the Liminality effect to where you here the A in C Major tone, but they are able to log out, where anyone else would loose their outside selves?


Okay, so how do the Akashic Records and Chrono Cores fit in to this?
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Kuukai »

Actually, thinking about it more, it actually makes perfect sense that AIKA was the one to save Aura. AIKA herself is an element of Aura's karma--a product of an age when Aura withdrew and did the right thing, which allowed new life to blossom forth. But at the same time it's an insult to AIKA to just call her a creation of Aura, since she evolved on her own and is so much more than that. I mean, she's Aura's savior, not the other way around. I don't think she owed anything to her, but her choice was poetic. Anyway, a lot to think about...
Keyaki wrote:
Geist supposedly proposed the whole thing years ago, with ulterior motives unbeknownst to CC. But even though they succeeded in getting Aura into the thing, she closed herself off. Only a doubleware's ability to synchronize and react with nearby data could bypass the stone door she created. The Twilight Knights also appeared, keeping Schicksal busy for a while.
Huh?
The Twilight Knights. The past heroes of The World. After Aura was confined they just appeared out of nowhere, trying to save her.
Keyaki wrote:
Fluegel was actually a medical scientist researching real-digitalization
Wasn't Amagi the same? Also, what philosophy?
Amagi was a genius programmer, though I think his entire career was originally inspired by his search for immortality which started when he was still a kid. But yeah, Fluegel was following Amagi's work. Schicksal's philosophy is "no need to be bound by ridiculous rules on the net or in reality."
Keyaki wrote:Medical tech? How?
They don't fully explain, but the boundary between the real and virtual is blurred by Schicksal PCs. Injury in the game causes pain in real life, so I'm sure the opposite can happen too.
Keyaki wrote:So the same strength of the Liminality effect to where you here the A in C Major tone, but they are able to log out, where anyone else would loose their outside selves?
Yeah, pretty much.
Keyaki wrote:Okay, so how do the Akashic Records and Chrono Cores fit in to this?
Didn't I just explain the Akashic Records? The Chrono Cores are data needed to manipulate the Akashic Records. It's probably explained better than that somewhere but offhand I'm not sure...
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Keyaki »

Schicksal's philosophy is "no need to be bound by ridiculous rules on the net or in reality."
I meant, you said that Schicksal was drawn to Fluegel's philosophy? What philosophy? Unless that was Fluegel's philosophy originally?
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Kuukai
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Re: Massive Spoiler Thread

Post by Kuukai »

Yeah, I would assume he's the one who started the group. Either that or him and Metronom. But it's a dream all the members share.
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