dothackers.net

Test run playlist

About to start a Redemption test speed run, FINALLY, though my planning was bad so I'm slightly overleveled. Let's start with some statistical data from Reminisce (note that things like Jet Speed Attack, Critical +50%, etc. are going to be done in the first segment of Redemption and are simply assumed to be what I'm going to have after the run begins):

Haseo
LV. 93
Weapon Levels: 11, 20, 17
Equipment:
Wrath Fenlong+5 (Critical +50%)
Wrath Hidaru+5 (Critical +50%)
Pierce Dragon+5 (GP Change)
Compress Mittens+5 (Speed +10% *3)
NOTE: No Dual Swords are equipped because I have no plans to use any, though a Spin Fang+5 is in reserve in case I change my mind.

Items:
Health Drink x50, Healing Serum x50, Healing Potion x50, Healing Rain x35, Revive Rain x50, Healing Storm x9, Holy Potion x35, Godly Potion x41, Revival Medicine x50, Speed Talisman x49, Asian Mango x50, The Moon x50, The Emperor x50, The Hanged Man x50, Smoke Screen x44, Fairy's Orb x44, Return Feather x50, Beginner's Text x50, Beginner's Book x50
NOTES: Speed Talisman, Smoke Screen and Fairy's Orb supplies were cut short from 50 to avoid the "You cannot have more than 50 blah blah blah" text box in the Bike Missions. I'm keeping the Beginner's items as part of a plot to give and take back Battle Cosmetics and Cat Whiskers before and after select fights.

Spare Equipment:
Chain Fenlong+5 (Jet Speed Attack), Heine's Shadow, Wrath Hidaru+5 (Critical +50%), Heine's Zero, Radiant Amalgam (Holy Counter), Rapid Mittens (Super Charge), Simple Gaiters, Appraise Handbag+5 (Item Boost, Speed+10%)
NOTES: I'm not sure what I'll do with the Chain Fenlong, but a Shogun's Fan is gonna fall in my lap anyway so who cares. Heine's Shadow will do some good in the first round of the Tournament, but I'm not sure if I'll use it again afterward. Heine's Zero is just dead weight. The extra Wrath Hidaru isn't for Haseo, but for Zelkova; I figure the P-ATK difference will be negated by Alchemy, and the Critical +50% will be infinitely more useful in the fight with Azure Kite (I think he's going, I dunno for sure). I don't know if I'll ever use any accessories on Haseo that aren't Compress or Rapid, but the Gaiters and Handbag will be there just in case. The Handbag may not remain as an Item Boost accessory simply because I don't know why I'd use it.

Relevant notes on other characters:

Atoli: Lv. 87, has Sub Cloak
Kuhn: Lv. 85, has Loose Case
Pi: Lv. 86, has Loose Case
Silabus: Lv. 85, has Loose Case
Gaspard: Lv. 85, has Sub Cloak
Piros: Lv. 88, has Rough Amalgam
Alkaid: Lv. 84, has Loose Case
Bo: Lv. 86, has Sub Cloak
Endrance: Lv. 85, has Loose Case
Antares: Lv. 86, has Loose Lionel
Matsu: Lv. 87, has Rough Amalgam
NOTES: Saku isn't listed because responding to her e-mails will take precious time, and if I use Bo, it won't be until after the Tournament IIRC. All characters have pink Affection, though their use as suicide Counters may eventually lower that. Right now every Epitaph User will use their Lost Weapon save Yata, and everyone will have a three-slot Counter that's already on the team as of the end of Reminisce. The element in this case is inconsequential, unlike Haseo who will use a Tomorrowleaf obtained on the Bike Mission courses for his Amalgam just because I won't be hitting Breg Epona beforehand and have to do some item maintenance anyway. Antares has a Loose Lionel instead of a Case because the Sage Palace Tournament will automatically boost his Level to 110, and I won't use him until immediately after my fight with him anyway.

Other items: Tidal Muffler (Hit in the Dark), Battle Cosmetics (Morale Boost, user will vary), Cat Whiskers (No Encounter, user will vary)

Miscellaneous notes: a PS1 Dual Shock will be used. I got the Equipment tab glitch where I couldn't access the tab on the Item and storage subscreens near the end of my post-game Reminisce running around, and combined with the stickiness of the left stick at 12 o'clock, I can't risk using the PS2 DS and decided to go with the same controller I used to run Infection years ago. Changing controllers during gameplay fixed this, so I can still use my PS2 DS should something go wrong, but it's very unlikely that will happen.

...

My main strategy for a lot of boss battles will simply be suicide counterattacks, which explains the levels. Haseo's being LV. 93 is for the use of the Fenlong and Hidaru, as having rapid attack weapons will screw me up worse if I accidentally trigger a combo ender than hold and release will. I had to get to 92 anyway because the Fenlong is the lowest level 3-slot H&R broadsword; I would have been stuck with a Seigen otherwise. As counterattacking Arena opponents will be a pain in the ass, and the strategy is null versus Taihaku because of Maxwell's Riddle Me That, I figure I'll need my Bullethead sword for this run.

The file I'm using obviously isn't my original Reminisce file, but a new one I created from my Rebirth save in order to implement suicide strategies effectively. I have 4 million in the bank, more than enough for Indulgence to get me through the entire game. That's not to say there won't be times where I switch out armors; my Radiant Amalgam will be there to manipulate chance in certain battles, such as the fight with Ovan.

I have very few specific strategies set so far, so unless I'm just wowed by the time or completely aggravated by the amount of luck manipulation involved, this will be a test run. Right now I have the following strategies set:

Conversion bonuses - Demon Bat Horn, Maiden's Hair, Body Butterfly, Mind Butterfly

Everything was at rank 6 except books IV and VII, which were at five. I don't think any of those have a use since I have Heine's Shadow and plan on getting 50 Noble Drop.

Beginning - Bike Mission courses 2 and 7 will be cleared for the following items:

- Battle Cosmetics
- Shogun's Fan (there may be a use for this, I don't know yet)
- Bell of Time
- Tomorrowleaf (not really, but it's there, so why not?)
- Skill Candle (really not sure there's a use for this, but I have an accessory ready for Skill Boost if one appears)
- Indulgence

Shopping will consist of getting Counters for everyone on the member address list as it currently stands, a new bike engine (either for Shock Poison or Shock Stun... dunno which I should get yet), the Noble Drops I mentioned prior, a few Sabertooth Tooth (one for a Fenlong, one for Zelkova's Hidaru, one for Antares, I believe)... I think that's it.

Heatwave Hound - Use Beast Awakening after whoring out Silabus and Gaspard for counters, obviously taking advantage of Gaspard's critical healing Favorite for whatever it ends up being worth. Holy Potions will be used for maximum effect.
Sage Palace 1st round - Ignore allies and go for Beast Awakening immediately, spamming Past Invite for the quickest kills. If I win any round with a Counter, I'll chalk it up to luck.
IYOTEN, Antares, Hetero - Typical Hangeki/Beast spammage. Hetero leaves me no choice at all, and I still can't let him hit me with regular attacks because his Drain Toge will negate my efforts, causing a segment restart.
Taihaku - Tiger Strike juggling. With any luck I'll be able to get Kuhn to use Thorn Shot to keep him airborne long enough to actually do the juggling, or get off the H&R attack to send him back into the air. If/when he does gain his AIDA shield, running is a must because Maxwell becomes as dangerous as Hetero's Toge when the aura is active.
Data bugs in Breg Epona's OD - I never did figure out how to do this quickly, and it'd drain a lot of resources to counter-spam here. I figure Pi will get killed a lot in those attempts, and I could use a right-hand man for Beast spam, so I've employed LV. 110 Antares and his Null Darkness armor I made to assist in the effort. Thinking about it now, maybe I should equip those Spin Fang and make them into Chain Fangs for this area... maybe? Thoughts would be appreciated.
Ovan - Get his HP to below 3750 and then suicide counter in order to avoid the scar attack with the greatest possible speed (that being instantaneous). I suppose I could use a 2-slot Counter to assist in this effort and use the Chain Fenlong afterward. Unless my damage output is just *pathetic*, I wouldn't have to Awaken for long, so two Godly Potion would do the trick. I know I'm taking Atoli to that fight (just gave her a Blaze Cape), but I don't know who else is going. I suppose I could bring Endrance since even though his critical healing Favorite is disabled in that fight, I can't use the killshot Fav and I don't plan on using combos.
Gomora extermination - Whatever I end up doing to the Data Bugs will be applied here, save anything to do with getting my Fenlong out for a little T-Ball since Gomora don't fly. The changes will be in the fact that Gomoras have no Skills whatsoever, but Antares won't have the levels to help out the same way as before, where he could, y'know, survive.
Azure Knights - I'm not sure if Kite can be countered, so I don't want to speculate.
Anti-Existence - I'm thinking I should bring Zelkova for the first round so he can maul two of the three and then Haseo and that guy I'm compared to a lot can gang up on his AE. The rest will be focused on retaining a full Awakening for the first Core. Thinking about it though, since the area changes for the final battle, that plan may not work. :\
Cubia - Beyond bringing Alkaid (guaranteed to have the lowest level for the fight along with critical healing Favorites, so she has two uses despite being the worst Twin Blade of the group), I'm debating whether to bring another Counterattacker or Zelkova since I only have two chances to insta-kill. The Gomoras could be really painful if I don't bring horn-boy, so I'm not sure I have a choice here. :\

Anyway, that's the tentative plan. It looks a bit like a clusterf**k because it is; I haven't sped through the game beyond the Breg Epona OD yet so I'm not yet sure how everything should go down, so a lot of this is preemptive guesswork.

At any rate, I trust the people here to know more about G.U. than SDA, so I'm posting progress and taking advice here instead. I likely won't post any video unless I just get plain stumped somewhere along the line and footage is required to clear something up... it's not likely both of those will happen though.

How many segments are you planning to do? I suppose there will be a segment for each "boss battle", though maybe Arena battles can be done in one.
I believe Outer Bugs and Gomoras can be taken down quicker if you use a different strategy on each. Using Skills/Awakenings on the bugs seems like the best idea, considering that they will spam OrAni Zots far more than attack physically, and all the Gomoras do is some headbutt thingy, easy prey for counters. Also, considering the level difference, it's alot better to fight with the bugs, being at a lower level, and letting the Gomoras kill themselves rather than trying to fight them.

I'm heavily looking forward to this, and i'll be sure to give advance and comment every once...though most likely, your strategies and ideas for the speedrun will be better than mine. I already had a hell of a time trying to beat the Outer Bugs and Gomoras at lvls 102-109 XD

TheSorrow wrote:How many segments are you planning to do? I suppose there will be a segment for each "boss battle", though maybe Arena battles can be done in one.

I'm not sure yet. This could end up with a high number of segments because of the reliance on Counters, and therefore luck manipulation. I *think* from random observation (I did not test this, it is a guess) that the activation rate for non-DG attacks is around 25%. Dual Guns activate Counters more often, though since the Counters won't work against the guns, that's pretty much just a dick move on the game's part that creates despair in Doppel's victims.

In fact, the entire reason it took so long for me to start working on the run was because I didn't want to use the Counter strategy. I hate dealing with luck. I wanted to start with everyone at 100, use Moon Rabbit to get to 109, and tear through the game my way from there, maybe using Moon Rabbit again for post-Ovan. In the end, I decided I'm pretty much obligated to take the Counter route at least once to see what kind of time is possible. If I don't like the result, I'll do the Moon Rabbit thing next instead of trying to make an actual run and see which is truly faster.

TheSorrow wrote:I believe Outer Bugs and Gomoras can be taken down quicker if you use a different strategy on each. Using Skills/Awakenings on the bugs seems like the best idea, considering that they will spam OrAni Zots far more than attack physically, and all the Gomoras do is some headbutt thingy, easy prey for counters. Also, considering the level difference, it's alot better to fight with the bugs, being at a lower level, and letting the Gomoras kill themselves rather than trying to fight them.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking, though only the Queen bugs can use OrAni Zot, so that's not as bad as it could be. This is why bringing Antares serves me well since not only will he survive the bugs, he has a combo Favorite too, so being required to bring Pi along for Breg Epona's OD actually sets me up perfectly for Awakening spammage. I think if I use the right Skills for this, I won't have to use dual swords to get 16 hit counts.

However, the Breg Epona bugs should be high enough to kill Pi instantly, maybe Haseo too, so maybe I could bring Antares and still use a Counter strategy. We'll see when I get there I suppose; it is just a test run after all.

TheSorrow wrote:I'm heavily looking forward to this, and i'll be sure to give advance and comment every once...though most likely, your strategies and ideas for the speedrun will be better than mine. I already had a hell of a time trying to beat the Outer Bugs and Gomoras at lvls 102-109 XD

Don't sell yourself short, I am kind of halfassing this run so far. I do hear you on the bugs though; at LV. 87, my main strategy for individual bugs was to use the scythe's charge attack constantly with Super Charge, pinning them against the wall until they died while warding off anything curious at the same time. Only doing 13 damage a hit was really slow.

Here's an equipment strategy I use when I'm about to fight outer bugs or monsters with serveral counters that could slow you down. If you have the "World Mirror" item, then completely ignore this. With the outer bugs, poison, curse, and sleep counters are extremely common when I play, so I would just buy a rough tiger or two, then head over to Lumina Cloth and customize one with the anti-sleep, curse, and poison attachments, just so you can rip through them easier without that slight pause of pain Haseo recieves. Since Anti-paralysis takes up two slots, that's when the other armor comes into play. Again, sleep counters will be very common among the other two common counters, so add anti-sleep with the anti-paralysis attachment, because we all know that getting hit with these is costly in time, especially speed runs. That, and it's annoying when you can't move and your healers take a millenium to heal you.

Master ZED wrote:Tidal Muffler (Hit in the Dark), Battle Cosmetics (Morale Boost, user will vary), Cat Whiskers (No Encounter, user will vary)

where did u get those items O.o i want them! especially the cat whiskers!

CountDOOMDestroyer wrote:

Master ZED wrote:Tidal Muffler (Hit in the Dark), Battle Cosmetics (Morale Boost, user will vary), Cat Whiskers (No Encounter, user will vary)

where did u get those items O.o i want them! especially the cat whiskers!

For this run, I'm getting those only on Bike Missions. The first two are on Courses 3 and 2 respectively, but if you place too high on Course 2 in Reminisce, you'll have to get Battle Cosmetics elsewhere. Cat Whiskers is on Course 10, but I was supposed to cut that out of the initial post since I had forgotten those less than LV. 90 can't use 3-slot accessory attachments. :\

Anyway, the first thirteen segments of the test run are done. I don't know if I'll upload them this morning or when I wake up (it'll be another 5 minutes or so before I can start making the videos), but either way, they'll be up soon. If you're curious, I'm only beating my low level run by a few minutes, though there are more to be saved by not allowing some select mistakes into the mix (such as the emergency Chim pickup in 13).

Master ZED wrote:

CountDOOMDestroyer wrote:

Master ZED wrote:Tidal Muffler (Hit in the Dark), Battle Cosmetics (Morale Boost, user will vary), Cat Whiskers (No Encounter, user will vary)

where did u get those items O.o i want them! especially the cat whiskers!

For this run, I'm getting those only on Bike Missions. The first two are on Courses 3 and 2 respectively, but if you place too high on Course 2 in Reminisce, you'll have to get Battle Cosmetics elsewhere. Cat Whiskers is on Course 10, but I was supposed to cut that out of the initial post since I had forgotten those less than LV. 90 can't use 3-slot accessory attachments. :\

Anyway, the first thirteen segments of the test run are done. I don't know if I'll upload them this morning or when I wake up (it'll be another 5 minutes or so before I can start making the videos), but either way, they'll be up soon. If you're curious, I'm only beating my low level run by a few minutes, though there are more to be saved by not allowing some select mistakes into the mix (such as the emergency Chim pickup in 13).

sweet i need to do those friggin bike missions

http://www.youtube.com/user/MasterZED

The first six segments are up, segments seven through thirteen are being processed in Anri-chan and uploaded to YT as we speak. 7 is already uploaded and is undergoing YT's processing.

If you're wondering why there's no HQ option, that only appears when the original video resolution is larger than certain dimensions. 320x240 won't make that available.

I'll be watching them soon and commenting on whatever i can o3o

Here's a new bug for ya, popped up when I decided to test out critical healing Favorites for Breg Epona's OD:



Apparently, if battle starts at exactly the same time as someone takes a hit via obstacle, not only can it kill them, it prevents the game from teleporting them, which can lead to them being dead outside the battle fence.

EDIT: Death is not required to keep someone out of the battle fence at battle's start.

Unfortunately, the Outer Dungeons are probably the only place you can do this since in all other dungeons, the obstacles are too out of the way, even the FoP's scythes. Luring the monsters won't work since if they stray too far from their designated area, they're teleported back. I'm sure it's useless, but it is the first method of escaping the battle fence not involving out-of-bounds bugs that I know of.

I ended up going through all of the rest of the game this morning on a whim and didn't record it because I wasn't supposed to go that far. I'll be redoing that for the channel anyway because there are still some questions I need answered (and the final time was 6:30ish because of a lot of dawdling).

At any rate, here's some things I found out from that run:

Chaotic PK Quest - The first six bounties have Levels corresponding (closely) to the party average, which means Antares should crush them on his own. Negimaru, Grein and pals don't; IIRC, Negimaru has a Level of 120 and Grein is only slightly behind. As those four practice Rage Strategy, even with GP Change (on this particular file), I can't waste time killing them. I'd rather not lose enough GP to have to sell my Beginner's items; it wouldn't waste much time, granted, but still.

Ovan - My 3-Slot Counter greed paid off finally (3749's a magic number). Still, I wonder if it was worth the effort considering how much damage potential I lost earlier in the game... but then, 2499 wouldn't have been enough for a lot of scenarios anyway.

Azure Knights - Kite can't be Countered; I may try to send Orca and Balmung to the grave first (granted if they spam their Art, this may not work out) and then finish Kite on Beast. Zelkova, despite low Affection, may be optimal here.

Shop Acorn - Sell the Beginner's Books if too much GP was lost.

Cubia Gomora - A lot easier than I thought because of their regular attack-only limitation (I can just Counter most), but they give EXP like it's candy. It's possible I'll have to switch out characters once during the exterminations. I also found out that as the exterminations go on, you can recruit characters from areas you've cleared (I never switched out during that event before, so I never knew); with this in mind, the extermination will start with Kuhn and Pi at Briona Gwydion and switch to Silabus and Gaspard as the dungeons are cleared if the Gomora cease doing 3600+ damage on every attack.

Shop Acorn - On the way to the bridge prior to getting the keywords for Cubia's area, gather my million+ GP from the sale of the Books for funding a Hadesbane Salve collection, if the sale was deemed necessary.

Cubia - A lot went wrong here, but I still won. This is my current plan:

Anti-Existence - Get a full Morale gauge: use Zelkova, Kaede and Yata on individual battles to limit the amount of real threats to one per fight. Atoli and Alkaid will be summoned for Cubia.

Left/Right Cores - For the first Core, I have three options to choose from:

A. Beast Awakening.
B. Go for a Counter kill on both.
C. Use a 2-slot Counter and then go Beast.

B. is possible if there are Gomora on the field to use Avatar Awakening on after the first Core's demise; it "reboots" Cubia so the fight can proceed after the AI crash. All things considered, since Alkaid has a Blast Leaf from prior to conversion and I can always get Atoli a 2-slot Counter armor for the real run, C. should work fastest.

Core Shield - Use Holy/Godly Potion combined with critical healing (not like I can avoid using Favorites, all things considered) to go mad with Beast Awakening, using the Wrath Fenlong for the kill (+20% damage for using broadswords). In the change-up to Central Core, I'll see if I can slaughter the Gomora. With 800 less HP than their counterparts in the exterminations, this *could* work, which would greatly speed up the final battle (the Core Shield launches much more Gomora than the other forms since it can't defend itself).

Atoli and Alkaid will be killed during this part of the battle and left that way for the moment; I can't risk a Counter triggering Cubia's ultimate attack, as that's a huge time waster and an absolute pain to counter when the Gomora often kill the two of them while everything's whited out.

Central Core - Take its HP under 5000 and then Hadesbane Salve until Alkaid becomes a cheating ****.

Segments 14 thru 20 are now up. The highlights are Corbenik (18) and the Azure Knights (20). I'm about to start annotations, so if you want to wait for my comments, give me a couple hours.

I only have six segments to go before the test is complete. If you guys want to criticize, you'd better do it quick.

Oh! I was wrong about Azure Kite; his teleporting slashes can be countered. However, he uses this attack so rarely, and he may more than likely get Countered on the first hit, which is a half-strength blow, that trying to Counter him is almost an excerise in futility. I may still try it on the actual run since Kite's more likely to strike Haseo with this attack than anyone else (my Radiant Amalgam could finish him after one Beast if I block with my Pierce Dragon first, then let Holy Counter eat him), but don't be surprised if I stick to what you see in segment 20 (only faster because of luck manipulation).

Gah... encountered another Cubia freezeup, this time on his post-Left/Right Core ram. I revived Alkaid and Atoli to max out Morale, and when Cubia hit, it froze. I have no idea if he was countered and the game didn't know what to do, or if it was a random freeze.

Anyway, Cubia, optimally, will be a really easy fight. The strategy, in case I don't get it all in video form, is as follows:

0. Bring Atoli and some other schmuck, for the test run Alkaid, with 2 and 3-slot Counter armors. Equip the 2-slots.
1. 2-slot Counter the Right Core. A single shot won't trigger the AI crash because 2499 only puts it near death. For the test, only one Counter (Alkaid) will be used; I'll risk having two in play for the real thing.
2. Execute said Core; one Heavenly Wheel, possibly requiring Skill Boost, is enough on its own.
3. Revive Atoli and Alkaid and change their armor back to 3-slot; summon them into the path of the Left Core.
4. 3-slot that Core; leave the two ladies dead and change to Skill Boost.
5. When the Core Shield appears, terminate with the Fenlong on Beast Awakening (Chain or Wrath will do). This will also put Atoli and Alkaid's ghosts in the middle of the room for the final attack.
6. When the Central Core's first center shot is about to land, use Hadesbane Salve for the win.

6. is designed to take advantage of the fact that immediately after revival, PC's enter a state of temporary invincibility where they can be hit, but not damaged in any way. When hit in this state, Counters can still trigger, so you may see a final battle in which Cubia gets smashed with twin 3-slot Counters for the instant kill and the entire party will still be alive afterward.

There's one more thing that concerns me though; it seems the introductory ram by the Central Core can indeed be countered. A Hadesbane Salve attack just as Cubia collides with the platform might be able to kill it without ever having the Central Core appear alive. If this is indeed possible, it might not occur in the test run, but it will in the real thing.

EDIT: Test run final time - 4:06:20

A lot of time is wasted on the credits, but I'm not gonna argue since it's a pretty clear-cut ending in this game.

Anyway, unwarranted bitching aside, I know I can break the four hour barrier with relative ease, so I think I'll shoot for... ohh... 3:50-3:55, if not below that. I don't think I made ten minutes worth of mistakes, but I don't see why I shouldn't try.

The videos are all uploaded; segments 21 thru 23 will be annotated shortly.

Sorry i haven't checked this before...i've been following the posts, but not the videos. I've honestly been lazy and keeping myself busy with MGS4 and anime XD
Anyways, i've checked out some of the main battles, but first of all, i must say that finishing it within 4 hours and at lv108 is a big WOW for me, and i'm definetly not up to even finish it under 10 hours, but i've seen some videos and know you can get under the 4-hour mark. And i have some things to point out, maybe you already mentioned them or at least considered them but i feel like saying them anyways:

-Yes, the Central Core ramming attack can indeed be countered, as i've proven in my low level battle against him. And as seen in my video too, in case Cubia survives the counter damage, he'll instantly do his special attack, which WILL cause him to die if you revived your allies quickly. Whatever the result is, i personally think they're both faster than your strategy of waiting for the normal laser thingies :P

-Definetly use the strategy you mentioned in the post above for dealing with the Arm thingies. I didn't like the one in the video much, you lose too much time with the first Arm, and the strategy you mentioned a while ago about Counter + Awakening isn't going to work, because the Arm will be gone in like 3 attacks, and then you'll have to wait until the BA ends, making it no different than just jumping right into BA as soon as it starts :/

-Now for the AE battles, are Counters any useful? You mentioned them but i saw none of them triggering. And as i saw your video, i figured out a good strategy...what about starting with your team in Tenacity (so they don't start spamming a skill), ordering them to use the Skills through the menu, Haseo included, and lock the enemy party with a triple-skill attack? That will definetly kill the lowest level enemy, and very likely Haseo's too, leaving only the high enemy, which will then be pelted by attacks that will cause him to get into Rengeki, and either a Skill Trigger or another multiple-skill attack will deal with him.

I think that's all for now, if i find anything else to mention even if it might not be as useful or you already thought of something else, i'll be sure to post it :P
But either way ZED, you are so freaking awesome and highly skilled, and definetly the bearer of the title of "Best .Hack Player Ever", or at least "Best GU Player Ever". I'm proudly remaining on a second place though >3 ...Or maybe third, EtherealDeath stills figures out tricks and strategies better than mine.

TheSorrow wrote:-Yes, the Central Core ramming attack can indeed be countered, as i've proven in my low level battle against him. And as seen in my video too, in case Cubia survives the counter damage, he'll instantly do his special attack, which WILL cause him to die if you revived your allies quickly. Whatever the result is, i personally think they're both faster than your strategy of waiting for the normal laser thingies

The initial ram worries me a little given the Core Shield ram freeze, along with the fact that the Central Core's first ram took weird damage. However, if one hit can be countered, then that's all an optimal fight needs really. Two 3-slot Counters is death, after all. I'll be pulling the revival just prior to the hit trick too in case all of the ram hits can be countered (don't see why not), which should cut down on the number of final segment attempts I'll have to make.

TheSorrow wrote:I didn't like the one in the video much, you lose too much time with the first Arm

That's what would happen should the counter fail. I can't allow that in the final run unless I somehow utterly obliterate the Anti-Existences so thoroughly that I shed a tear, in which case I'll just go with it if all else works out.

TheSorrow wrote:-Now for the AE battles, are Counters any useful? You mentioned them but i saw none of them triggering.

They are in the case that the low level ally Counters the highest level AE in Zelkova's and Kaede's battles. Yata, notsomuch, but his doesn't matter because I can annihilate it with Haseo as-is. In practice, this happens rarely because the AE's just love their Skills.

TheSorrow wrote:And as i saw your video, i figured out a good strategy...what about starting with your team in Tenacity (so they don't start spamming a skill), ordering them to use the Skills through the menu, Haseo included, and lock the enemy party with a triple-skill attack? That will definetly kill the lowest level enemy, and very likely Haseo's too, leaving only the high enemy, which will then be pelted by attacks that will cause him to get into Rengeki, and either a Skill Trigger or another multiple-skill attack will deal with him.

Actually, I'd rather put Haseo into the Skill Trigger because sometimes the collisions from two Arts meeting head-on doesn't work out so well, but otherwise yes, Yata and especially Zelkova could really go for the first strike idea. I was really preoccupied with what to do about the Morale gauge, but since I don't actually require it until the Core Shield, I should be able to do that in the first part of the Cubia battle without any setbacks. I don't see Awakening really helping with good AE battles; Haseo, Yata, Zelkova and Kaede are powerful enough on their own.

TheSorrow wrote:I think that's all for now, if i find anything else to mention even if it might not be as useful or you already thought of something else, i'll be sure to post it

Well, tell me what you think of this, since your battle with Sirius inspired the thought.

If the damage done to me is great enough and the opponent's HP isn't too low, in the Arena, do you think it would be worth finishing off IYOTEN, Antares, and Hetero with Counters by letting them hit Haseo? Atoli and Kuhn would be REALLY tough to get, but if I drain the leaders of enough health and then switch armors to sacrifice Haseo for the final hit, according to your video in which you were annihilated and still got the story to proceed (that was in Reminisce, but I'd be surprised if anything changed), I should be able to win this way even if Haseo perishes (hopefully this won't have to happen). IYOTEN and Antares should be easy enough this way, but Hetero's HP Drain +25% could be a real pain to work against. It might be better against Hetero to sacrifice Kuhn and Atoli to a slash right off the bat and then focus on killing him, since that will do more damage overall, and Team Hetero is rather Arts-passive anyway compared to the previous two fights. The problems I can foresee are that if he struck both in the wrong order (Countered then gets the drain), or if HP Drain somehow comes AFTER the Counter in priority, this plan could be more trouble than its worth depending on the damage Hetero can dish out.

TheSorrow wrote:Or maybe third, EtherealDeath stills figures out tricks and strategies better than mine.

Is Ethereal even bothering with this game anymore?

I was really preoccupied with what to do about the Morale gauge, but since I don't actually require it until the Core Shield, I should be able to do that in the first part of the Cubia battle without any setbacks. I don't see Awakening really helping with good AE battles; Haseo, Yata, Zelkova and Kaede are powerful enough on their own.

I agree, you don't really need BA with the AE battles, and if all goes well with Cubia's arms, you shouldn't need it for them either. I'd just recommend to finish the AE battles with the skill combination i mentioned, and save the Beast Awakening until the Core Shield; assuming all goes well, you'd only need to heal your allies twice before using it, once per each arm attack (which leads to Counter damage), and with a full Morale all ready, you wouldn't have to worry about more healing or any other Morale boosting to get the bar ready :P

Well, tell me what you think of this, since your battle with Sirius inspired the thought.

If the damage done to me is great enough and the opponent's HP isn't too low, in the Arena, do you think it would be worth finishing off IYOTEN, Antares, and Hetero with Counters by letting them hit Haseo? Atoli and Kuhn would be REALLY tough to get, but if I drain the leaders of enough health and then switch armors to sacrifice Haseo for the final hit, according to your video in which you were annihilated and still got the story to proceed (that was in Reminisce, but I'd be surprised if anything changed), I should be able to win this way even if Haseo perishes (hopefully this won't have to happen). IYOTEN and Antares should be easy enough this way, but Hetero's HP Drain +25% could be a real pain to work against. It might be better against Hetero to sacrifice Kuhn and Atoli to a slash right off the bat and then focus on killing him, since that will do more damage overall, and Team Hetero is rather Arts-passive anyway compared to the previous two fights. The problems I can foresee are that if he struck both in the wrong order (Countered then gets the drain), or if HP Drain somehow comes AFTER the Counter in priority, this plan could be more trouble than its worth depending on the damage Hetero can dish out.

:3

Yes, i believe that if the enough damage is dealt (well, this isn't Rebirth or Reminisce, you have to pretty much kill them XD), the fight will "trigger" it's finish before Haseo is considered dead and all, so you should technically win the battle and go on with the story. And if you're ready to be restarting the segment lots of times until you can inflict the enough damage the fastest possible (probably an Awakening), then be quickly hit by the leader without the others bothering you and hitting you first, yeah, you should do it, and you should save like 2-3 minutes per battle too. Though, with Antares, if your "crippling" strategy you mentioned in the video works, then you might as well go with that, since you'll probably need no more than an Awakening and some extra attacks to beat him (a Rengeki-Beast Awakening, if possible, would do INSANE damage with his weak armor), taking as much time as with the Counter strategy but without having to rely on luck as much. And with Hetero, his draining shouldn't be a problem for the "Kamikaze Counter" as long as the game registers he was damaged enough for his HP to be at 400 or whatever the "mark" is; once that happens, the game will trigger the cutscene and the rest of the story, even if Hetero goes back to full HP with his draining, the game has already triggered the scene and his or Haseo's HP doesn't matter anymore. I've seen that happening in Rebirth, with allies healing the leader at almost the exact time i decrease his HP to the needed amount, as you said, i don't think that changed at all.

Is Ethereal even bothering with this game anymore? :P

Apparently, the answer is yes, he's just been too busy lately dealing with some Hitoshura or something like that D: