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Is Alcor not canon because it isn't shown in the games? What about Cell? Just because it doesn't show it in the games, doesn't mean it isn't canon. Hell, Shino's player was shown in G.U.+ long before she was shown in the game, and she looked exactly the same. The story may be different, but the characters are basically the same.

Alcor and Cell are canon, so it's not the same. The characters may look the same, but they certainly don't have to act the same. Case in point, Tri-Edge/Azure Flame Kite is responsible for the coma's and Signs.

I know G.U.+'s story contradicts G.U.'s, but the characters are basically the same. Shino being an Epitaph user and Kuhn becoming a lost one are part of the story, not part of their individual character. I have no problem with it not being canon, but it's one thing that hasn't been proven wrong by the actual story. For example, what if we're not shown Haseo's player in the OVA? Couldn't his appearance in G.U.+ be considered canon? What I'm trying to say is, if it doesn't conflict with the game, it should be considered canon.

Except Atoli being a cutter IS contradicted in the games. Just like Sakubo doesn't have multiple personalities in GU+.

Annwyn wrote:Now I get what you're saying, and I see the validity in it. Because it hasn't been disproved by the "real deal," it could still be real. That's a good way to look at it. I was just looking at it a different way--as in, not saying that the story being non-canon means that the character's traits in that story are non-canon, just saying that unless it says so in the canon story, I don't consider it canon. I tend to look at non-canon stuff as if it's fanfiction for the series and not a real part of the series...which is not always a good thing to do.

Either way you look at it is fine, and like I said, I don't have a problem even if it's proven wrong, I'm just giving my perspective.

AuraTwilight wrote:Oh, by the way, to explain WHY she cuts herself in GU+ and not GU, as the Epitaph User of Innis, the Mirage of Deceit, she has to be eligible. In the games, she was being manipulated by Ovan, Sakaki, and pretty much everyone except Haseo and his friends. However, these plot devices couldn't be used for GU+, so they decided to make her happy outlook on life a mirage and make her all emo and ****.

No, it's for the same reasons as the game, she has a shitty school life. It's one of the things shown to Ryou when he sees her memories. Atoli thinking she was a replacement for Shino is another reason.

AuraTwilight wrote:That and you've gotta consider she was AIDA-infected when she was cutting herself, which intensified her emotions by a hundred-fold. In her sane, uninfected mind, she would never slit herself.

She can't really cut herself when she's comatose.

AuraTwilight wrote:Alcor and Cell are canon, so it's not the same. The characters may look the same, but they certainly don't have to act the same. Case in point, Tri-Edge/Azure Flame Kite is responsible for the coma's and Signs.

Kite isn't responsible for the signs in G.U. or G.U.+, him PKing Atoli was because of Ovan as well. IIRC, Ovan fabricated an email to make it look like Sakaki had sent it, and left the area before Atoli/Kite arrived, just like when he met with Haseo/Pai/Kuhn, and left before Kite arrived. Ovan was also the one to PK Endrance/Sakubo/Yata/Pai/Kuhn.

AuraTwilight wrote:Except Atoli being a cutter IS contradicted in the games. Just like Sakubo doesn't have multiple personalities in GU+.

Sakubo isn't even a factor in G.U.+, so that's unknown.

No, it's for the same reasons as the game, she has a shitty school life. It's one of the things shown to Ryou when he sees her memories. Atoli thinking she was a replacement for Shino is another reason.

And she doesn't have a shitty school life at all in GU, proving my point.

She can't really cut herself when she's comatose.

Then why are you saying she cut herself and it reflected on Innis?

Kite isn't responsible for the signs in G.U. or G.U.+, him PKing Atoli was because of Ovan as well. IIRC, Ovan fabricated an email to make it look like Sakaki had sent it, and left the area before Atoli/Kite arrived, just like when he met with Haseo/Pai/Kuhn, and left before Kite arrived. Ovan was also the one to PK Endrance/Sakubo/Yata/Pai/Kuhn.

In GU+, Kite is the one making the Signs.

Sakubo isn't even a factor in G.U.+, so that's unknown.

Erm, yea she is. And she lacks split personalities.

AuraTwilight wrote:And she doesn't have a shitty school life at all in GU, proving my point.

Did you even play Vol.2? That's the whole issue with the AIDA manifesting into a school setting.

AuraTwilight wrote:Then why are you saying she cut herself and it reflected on Innis?

She cut herself before she got PKed, and it manifested on her avatar because of the AIDA. It goes away as soon as Haseo gets her back to normal. Her actually doing it had nothing to do with AIDA.

AuraTwilight wrote:In GU+, Kite is the one making the Signs.

I have all the manga next to me right now. In chapter 11, Ovan reveals his arm, and pieces of the shattered avatars appear on it, revealing he was the one to PK the epitaph users. Also, the scenes with Pai and Yata getting PKed are actually shown.

AuraTwilight wrote:Erm, yea she is. And she lacks split personalities.

How would you know? She/he doesn't have a single line in the manga, she/he only appears comatose.

UHR wrote:

AuraTwilight wrote:Erm, yea she is. And she lacks split personalities.

How would you know? She/he doesn't have a single line in the manga, she/he only appears comatose.

Well, that means that there's no proof whether she does OR doesn't, right? And your whole basis of the Atoli-cutting thing is based of a lack of anything against it in the games, which is pretty much the same thing.

As for me, I won't assume she's a cutter unless it's confirmed in the games, OVA, and/or an official book.

Without Knowledge wrote:Well, that means that there's no proof whether she does OR doesn't, right? And your whole basis of the Atoli-cutting thing is based of a lack of anything against it in the games, which is pretty much the same thing.

As for me, I won't assume she's a cutter unless it's confirmed in the games, OVA, and/or an official book.

You're right, but what I said is supported by her emotional state being similar in both the game and manga. But, there is an entry in the japanese .hack wiki entry that seems to support it. Atoli's Profile: http://www18.atwiki.jp/hackgu2/pages/20.html

手首には、その時のものと思われるリストカットの傷跡が残っている。

Anyone mind translating that? It's the line that addresses her cutting.

Edit: Oh, I thought I might add that wrist cutting is quite common in Japan, especially among high school girls, since the pressure to succeed in school and find a steady job is much higher over there. It's also a way to forget emotional pain by giving yourself physical pain.

Did you even play Vol.2? That's the whole issue with the AIDA manifesting into a school setting.

Aside from the fact that it was a reflection of MULTIPLE people's school lives, Atoli's problems aren't big enough to make her cut herself. She was simply bullied. They tone this up wayyy up in GU+. I wouldn't describe herHow would you know? She/he doesn't have a single line in the manga, she/he only appears comatose. canon school life as "Shitty", just stressful.

She cut herself before she got PKed, and it manifested on her avatar because of the AIDA. It goes away as soon as Haseo gets her back to normal. Her actually doing it had nothing to do with AIDA.

Ah, right. Just reread that. Even still, other characters have altered personality traits, too.

I have all the manga next to me right now. In chapter 11, Ovan reveals his arm, and pieces of the shattered avatars appear on it, revealing he was the one to PK the epitaph users. Also, the scenes with Pai and Yata getting PKed are actually shown.

I haven't read that far. But then that's another thing. Ovan can turn Epitaph Users into Unreturners in one version and not the other.

How would you know? She/he doesn't have a single line in the manga, she/he only appears comatose.

I "know" the same reason you "know" Atoli is a cutter. Since Sakubo doesn't demonstrate split personalities in the manga, it means she doesn't. :P

Anyway, I'm sure I've proven my point.

...Anyways, besides the "She cuts!/No, she doesn't!" stuff, what information is there on Atoli in real life? All I've got is her family and school life isn't too hot, and she cooks.

She eats a lot of beef and detests vegetables...

Wait, everyone knew that.

*Sigh* Just when I thought I'd like her in real life...she goes and turns out to be one of THEM.

she goes and turns out to be one of THEM.

go ahead.....say it.
...>_>
<_<
EMO

>_>
Toszi(dont phear the cliques)

She's not Shemo. >_>

Shemo

that will be remember'd for eons of .hack history

>_>
Toszi

AuraTwilight wrote:Aside from the fact that it was a reflection of MULTIPLE people's school lives, Atoli's problems aren't big enough to make her cut herself. She was simply bullied. They tone this up wayyy up in GU+. I wouldn't describe her canon school life as "Shitty", just stressful.

Not really, she was just bullied in G.U.+, but that's still a shitty life. It's not like people enjoy getting bullied, and it's even worse for girls. Hell, that's why Atoli is so adamant about Lunar Tree and everyone being friends, because she can't deal with that stuff in real life. She puts on a front, just like Shino, but inside she's very depressed. Like you said, she has to deal with alot more in G.U. than she has to in G.U.+, so why is her being a cutter so hard to believe? She's not emo at all, emo would be making a big deal out of nothing, she just has feelings like a normal person. Again, you have to understand that school life is MUCH harder in Japan, and this thing would be considered somewhat common.

AuraTwilight wrote:I haven't read that far. But then that's another thing. Ovan can turn Epitaph Users into Unreturners in one version and not the other.

That's not a personality trait, it's an issue with the plot. They only did that because they didn't have time to introduce Cubia and other plot elements. It's not like they can't come back though, Endrance returns on his own before Ovan is even defeated, it's just something they didn't have time to work into the story.

AuraTwilight wrote:I "know" the same reason you "know" Atoli is a cutter. Since Sakubo doesn't demonstrate split personalities in the manga, it means she doesn't.

How does what you said disprove ANYTHING that I said? So, let's say Sakubo doesn't have split personalities (which can't be proven either way), does that make anything I said invalid? At least I have some sort of evidence to back up my claim, while you have nothing.

AuraTwilight wrote:Anyway, I'm sure I've proven my point.

Not at all, but we can pretend like you did.

lukan wrote:

she goes and turns out to be one of THEM.

go ahead.....say it.
...>_>
<_<
EMO

>_>
Toszi(dont phear the cliques)

Actually, I meant a meat-eater...but that could work too Lukan!

Not really, she was just bullied in G.U.+, but that's still a shitty life. It's not like people enjoy getting bullied, and it's even worse for girls. Hell, that's why Atoli is so adamant about Lunar Tree and everyone being friends, because she can't deal with that stuff in real life. She puts on a front, just like Shino, but inside she's very depressed. Like you said, she has to deal with alot more in G.U. than she has to in G.U.+, so why is her being a cutter so hard to believe? She's not emo at all, emo would be making a big deal out of nothing, she just has feelings like a normal person. Again, you have to understand that school life is MUCH harder in Japan, and this thing would be considered somewhat common.

I don't believe she's a cutter because nothing in the CANON implies it in the slightest. GU+ is MEANT to be different. Just like XXXX changed Kite's personality by taking away like, 80% of his resolve and making Lios like three times as badass.

That's not a personality trait, it's an issue with the plot. They only did that because they didn't have time to introduce Cubia and other plot elements. It's not like they can't come back though, Endrance returns on his own before Ovan is even defeated, it's just something they didn't have time to work into the story.

Yea, and in .hack, ESPECIALLY in GU, personality is more than half the plot.

How does what you said disprove ANYTHING that I said? So, let's say Sakubo doesn't have split personalities (which can't be proven either way), does that make anything I said invalid? At least I have some sort of evidence to back up my claim, while you have nothing.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm doing the same thing you are. You're saying Atoli is a cutter in GU because nothing says she isn't, while in GU+ I'm saying Sakubo has only one personality because nothing says she doesn't. It the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" thing.

Not at all, but we can pretend like you did.

ZOMG! AT's been PWN'd

0_0
Toszi

No I haven't. UHR is just stubborn and trying to change my point from "Occam's Razor" to me trying to prove something.

AuraTwilight wrote:I don't believe she's a cutter because nothing in the CANON implies it in the slightest. GU+ is MEANT to be different. Just like XXXX changed Kite's personality by taking away like, 80% of his resolve and making Lios like three times as badass.

Except for her depression, and her personality being exactly the same as it is in G.U.

AuraTwilight wrote:Yea, and in .hack, ESPECIALLY in GU, personality is more than half the plot.

So, by your logic, Ovan being able to put Epitaph Users into comas makes him a different person? I don't think so. If you had actually read the entire manga, he acts EXACTLY like he does in the games, right up to the end.

AuraTwilight wrote:You're misinterpreting me. I'm doing the same thing you are. You're saying Atoli is a cutter in GU because nothing says she isn't, while in GU+ I'm saying Sakubo has only one personality because nothing says she doesn't. It the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" thing.

No, I have evidence to back my claims up. For example, the similar emotional state. Hell, the profile I posted was the one from the fan book, with added information regarding Vol.2+3, and it states that she cuts.

UHR wrote:

AuraTwilight wrote:I don't believe she's a cutter because nothing in the CANON implies it in the slightest. GU+ is MEANT to be different. Just like XXXX changed Kite's personality by taking away like, 80% of his resolve and making Lios like three times as badass.

Except for her depression, and her personality being exactly the same as it is in G.U.

AuraTwilight wrote:Yea, and in .hack, ESPECIALLY in GU, personality is more than half the plot.

So, by your logic, Ovan being able to put Epitaph Users into comas makes him a different person? I don't think so. If you had actually read the entire manga, he acts EXACTLY like he does in the games, right up to the end.

AuraTwilight wrote:You're misinterpreting me. I'm doing the same thing you are. You're saying Atoli is a cutter in GU because nothing says she isn't, while in GU+ I'm saying Sakubo has only one personality because nothing says she doesn't. It the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" thing.

No, I have evidence to back my claims up. For example, the similar emotional state. Hell, the profile I posted was the one from the fan book, with added information regarding Vol.2+3, and it states that she cuts.

It's already been stated that Atoli's bullying and problems were blown to a bigger proportion in the manga, so her depression ISN'T the same in G.U.

Also, you keep siting that fanbook, but it's in Japanese, isn't it? Can you read it?

No I haven't. UHR is just stubborn and trying to change my point from "Occam's Razor" to me trying to prove something.

...either way, he's the closest one of us to make an attempt to PWN you, AT........

>_>
Toszi