Tasogare no Sho?! (Book of Twilight)

TheSorrow · Post by **TheSorrow** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:01 pm

I'm not sure if i'm correct, but Aura was complete already, it's just that she wasn't 'God' yet (Morganna was). And Kite was far from defeating Corbenik, so in order to save Kite and the .hackers, Aura had to stop Kite's attack and fuse with Morganna to become the god she is.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:41 pm

Corbenic wasn't Data Drained, so even if Kite hit him, it'd still live. The only way to defeat Corbenic without the Bracelet is to sacrifice Aura.

ashlay · Post by **ashlay** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:04 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:Corbenic wasn't Data Drained, so even if Kite hit him, it'd still live. The only way to defeat Corbenic without the Bracelet is to sacrifice Aura.

this brings up a question:
seeing as how the only way to defeat corbinek was to 'kill' aura, that Aura made use of some form of the rebirth function (seeing as how she was back right after), and the fact that Aura had been hiding in Corbenik during GU....

...is corbinek aura? or at least part of the same data/being? I suppose the phases were portions of the morganna program, but it just seems sort of odd how aura has these connections to corbinek. 0_o

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:07 pm

I'm not sure if i agree with that theory, but if you wanated to you could argue that Aura was a part of Morganna too, as she was her mother program...

Not what I think, but some people might...

Requiem · Post by **Requiem** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:18 pm

Seeing as Morganna was created to create Aura, and that the phases are in essence, Morganna Mode Gonne, it would then imply that Aura is born from the phases. So yes, at least in some part Aura and Corbenik are the same being. At least until she was born anyway.

Aside from that though, if Aura's hiding in Corbenik, doesn't that mean she's kinda... un-birthing herself? Now why in Za Warudo would she try to get born and then undo it?

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:34 pm

this brings up a question:
seeing as how the only way to defeat corbinek was to 'kill' aura, that Aura made use of some form of the rebirth function (seeing as how she was back right after), and the fact that Aura had been hiding in Corbenik during GU....

...is corbinek aura? or at least part of the same data/being? I suppose the phases were portions of the morganna program, but it just seems sort of odd how aura has these connections to corbinek. 0_o

You're skipping like 50 dots to draw that connection. When Aura killed herself, Morganna went WTFOMGBBBQKTHXBAI and crashed, and rebooted. As a result of that, the Rebirth power activated and gave birth to the internet all over again, along with Morganna and Aura as a merged entity. There are no connections between Corbenic and Aura specifically other than the connections between Aura and Morganna other than Aura residing within OVAN's Arm, and really, any Epitaph User might've done just as well, but Ovan was the first.

Seeing as Morganna was created to create Aura, and that the phases are in essence, Morganna Mode Gonne, it would then imply that Aura is born from the phases. So yes, at least in some part Aura and Corbenik are the same being. At least until she was born anyway.

NO, god dammit.

Aside from that though, if Aura's hiding in Corbenik, doesn't that mean she's kinda... un-birthing herself? Now why in Za Warudo would she try to get born and then undo it?

She's just sleeping.

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:47 pm

AuraTwilight wrote: She's just sleeping.

What AT said. Once your born you can't just make yourself unborn, unless you crawl back into where you came from. Aura and Morganna fused. She cant go back. That'd be wrong...
The only Aura would become "un-birthed" was if she restored Morganna, fragmented herself and deleted all her stored emotional, memory and remotly U.AI-like data, and became a basic, sleeping girl program again. Basicly making everything the way it was in //SIGN. She's not THAT stupid. I don't think that's even possible for her to do.
Aura placed herself into Ovan's arm and SLEPT. She gathered up all her data, shoved herself in Ovan, and SLEPT. She never ceased being the Ultimate AI or living as anything less than that. Depressed people sleep lots...

I don't think anything I just ranted about made sense...

Post by **Kuukai** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:56 pm

Ovan's arm has like, nothing to do with this...

AuraTwilight wrote:Corbenic wasn't Data Drained, so even if Kite hit him, it'd still live. The only way to defeat Corbenic without the Bracelet is to sacrifice Aura.

Not necessarily. It's likely the "encrypted" part of Corbenik was the shell that Aura already broke. In G.U. you have to data drain it separately. Corbenik was within an inch of its life at the end...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:06 pm

Ovan's arm has like, nothing to do with this...

It really does.

Not necessarily. It's likely the "encrypted" part of Corbenik was the shell that Aura already broke. In G.U. you have to data drain it separately. Corbenik was within an inch of its life at the end...

If Kite was capable of killing Corbenic on his own, then Aura's sacrifice was totally meaningless.

.hack//BICTIOUS · Post by **.hack//BICTIOUS** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:07 pm

Been a couple of months since I last beat QUARANTINE, but didn't Aura mostly just have to die to become the Ultimate AI? (Which makes me think of Phoenix from X-Men for some odd reason ><)

.Alice · Post by **.Alice** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:22 pm

don't think about it too hard, its really not the greatest bit of writing ever made. just accept it as what had to happen for the ending.

Yes, It`s right. If I did remember Cobernic`s shield ( other waves had it and why is imposible beat them ) was destroyed for the persons in coma in the same way that Data Drain would had worked (this was a little fool) so Kite could had killed to Cobernic without the bracelet.

Aside from that though, if Aura's hiding in Corbenik, doesn't that mean she's kinda... un-birthing herself? Now why in Za Warudo would she try to get born and then undo it?

It is weird...

Ravaan · Post by **Ravaan** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:05 pm

I thought Cobenik's sheild was different a from the normal data protection that needed to be protect broken. I assumed was a Corbenik-only defence skill, as it was activated, not always there.

Niu · Post by **Niu** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:11 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:BZZT!!! Try again. One, where the hell is your proof? Two, Harald was trying to show the world Emma's genius and beauty as a poet. He's kind've defeating his own purpose by editing the Epitaph, dummy.

I hope I can find it right now. It was deleted 3 years ago. But I suggest you go to CC's official BBS and ask there, the people there can prove my words are true ( isuppose you can read Japanese right?). Not to mention Harold has to rewarded, cosnider the poem is incomplete. 3 chapters were lost. If he don't do soemthing, he is going to have gaps in his programe.

Post by **Kuukai** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:16 pm

The Epitaph was never completed, but he still has the original inserted into The World. It's possible that data itself magically filled in the blanks, or it's possible it's still incomplete. Ina seemed happy with it the way it was, but then again she's Japanese and Japanese people don't care how anything ends...

AuraTwilight wrote:
Ovan's arm has like, nothing to do with this...
It really does.

It has nothing to do with where Aura went.

AuraTwilight wrote:If Kite was capable of killing Corbenic on his own, then Aura's sacrifice was totally meaningless.

No, it was an act of love towards her mother, and her selfless sacrifice of her own individuality was the last piece of growth needed for her to be born as the Ultimate AI. A wiser Aura says, "All great works are built upon self-sacrifice." And as Wiseman noted, it's like apoptosis: a piece had to die for the whole to be born. He's usually both, "so close to the point and so very far away at the same time," according to Ovan, but that time I think he nailed it. Even Jun agrees. Yay!

ashlay · Post by **ashlay** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:30 am

Kuukai wrote:and Japanese people don't care how anything ends...

AIDA....if they're not related to Cubia, then they were never explained in the games. at all. boo.

Niu · Post by **Niu** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:37 am

Evidence found! Emma's original works.

I tried rearranging the file address and it happens that they just remove the links but didn't erase the file in the database.

http://www.cyberconnect2.jp/hack/room/s ... taph01.gif

For example, ch.1-6 here. Harold's stanzas never mentioned Lilith at all, nor the incident where Lilith saved Black Magi, White Bito, and Saya the Seekers from Cubia.

http://www.cyberconnect2.jp/hack/room/s ... taph02.gif

In ch.2-3, Magi and Pread's reunion is also skiped, where it dealt with Black Magi's reason of hattign Dark. Tartaruga's guardian that appeared in Ch.2-6 is also not mentioned at all by Harold.

http://www.cyberconnect2.jp/hack/room/s ... taph03.gif

In ch.3-3, the entire segement on Alke Kelen Temple is skipped

http://www.cyberconnect2.jp/hack/room/s ... taph04.gif

In ch.4-3, the Wave crushed Helba's palace, but Net Slum didn't get detsroyed under Harold's scenario.
And in ch.4-6, Harold literally changed the Monkey that Wears a Hat into Monkey that Speaks Men's Words.

http://www.cyberconnect2.jp/hack/room/s ... taph05.gif

Ch.5 is mostly missing. But also does not fit with Harold's writing. Magi is killed by the Wave when Saya the Seekers are still talking to the Twilight Dragon. And as we know, no one died yet before the final confrontation with Corbenik.

Post by **Kuukai** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:19 pm

The fragments that we know are just pieces of the fuller Epitaph that Harald put in, as evidenced by new fragments showing up in Another Birth. The story in that outline is probably all in the book, with the stated possible exception of any sort of ending...

And I was never one of the fans who thought it was a 1-to-1 prophecy. If anything, relevant passages of the Epitaph surfaced based on what was going on....

Niu · Post by **Niu** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:39 pm

True, but that doesn't excuse Harold from chaging the order of events. Helba lost her abode according to Emma's writing, but Net Slum stand untill the very end.
We also see no one that represent Lilith in a total of 4 encounters with Cubia.
And the part about Monkey that Wears Men's Hat is "literally" changed when Harold recited that stanza himself.

It may not have to be 1to1 prophecy, but these are very obvious chnages.

Harold made changes, there is no excuse.

azure_flames · Post by **azure_flames** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:03 pm

Just to clear one thing up:

Corbenik was just like Skeith and all the others. He couldn't be beaten until you data drained him. You can talk about how his shield was broken and all that for as long as you want, but it still doesn't change that one simple fact. No one performed a DD on him. Not Kite. Not Aura. Not anybody. Therefore, Corbenik could not have been beaten through normal attack/spell/whateverthehellelseyouwanttothinkup means.

As for the Epitaph...Is it really relevant? Or, on that note, does it really matter? It's not the Ten Commandments or anything. It wasn't written in stone. On a final note, Net Slum was, technically, destroyed. =/

TheSorrow · Post by **TheSorrow** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:31 pm

The Epitaph doesn't has to be followed exactly like it's written; it's only the base of the birth of the Ultimate AI. If it were to occur exactly like it is, and since it's not complete (Emma never finished it), everyone would just freeze at zero point once they reach the part that is not complete.

In my opinion, the Omni-Tolerance is just a small barrier created for protection. If Kite had the bracelet, he could DD Corbenik at that point, turn it into an lvl1 Epitaph stone, and would be able to decrease it's HP to 0 and kill it. But, since the bracelet was gone, the barrier had to be broken by other means, and the battle just continued. The eye form is because Morganna started acting on Corbenik directly, instead of Corbenik being just a piece of her with an own mind.