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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:25 pm
by AuraTwilight
i know how Data Drain works. i'm thinking Ovan will somehow pull himself into 'the world'. Ovan is the Rebirth and you can only imagine what Corbenik can do.
Create data, just like Innis imitates it and Magus duplicates it?
No, the "tricking you into thinking you're dead" thing was only in the Udeden anime. Data drain (coma mode) works by "pulling" the target's mind across the boundary between the game and reality...
Yea, I know. But it always seemed to be implied that the mind was pulled across because the target's mind was "into" the game, with suspension of belief. An example being when Mimiru was in the Upside down dungeon and almost fell through the floor. "Bear, what happens if we die here?" "Nothing! You just start off where you last saved!" "But...But Bear, your palm, it's sweaty! Why am I so scared?"
She's totally overreacting. The emotional investment is probably the key to pulling the mind across the boundary, and thus why Morganna tried to Data Drain her about 20 minutes later. This all goes together fairly well with Yata's theory that it's not so much pulling souls into the web, but tricking the consciousness into believing the World is reality, and through some half-psychic mind-over-matter New Age crap, becomes more or less true.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:12 pm
by Dragoon2044
Create data, just like Innis imitates it and Magus duplicates it?
Thats right. I would assume each epitaph has a trade mark function as you described Innis and Magus. Perhaps Corbenik can restore ruined data? Its all up in the air right now as to what Corbenik will do. Since Ovan plays such a centralized role in the story, Corbenik being his avatar. The question is what fate is Ovan trying to avert by involving Haseo and Skeith, the terror of death?
If Ovan and Phyllo have the same problem and Haseo is Ovan's future, what will happen to Ovan in the real world and in the game? Where does Shino play into all this?
I'm thinking Ovan will die in real life and then reappear in 'the world'. Shino will then wake from her coma along with the other lost ones. Another distict possibility is that Ovan will simply die in real life leaving his avatar Corbenik data drained by Skeith. Shino would then wake up.
Then there is the question of Eina. They say she sits in a chair crying while Ovan comes to visit her and she opens her eyes. i know Eina might be the product of the failed R.A. plan, yet i'm also wondering about Shino actually being Eina. It would be a big secret until after Ovan dies. Somehow that would also fit with our theory of Shino being the new Aura. that might not be the case however, since Aura abandoned the individual, left to the wind, became null, so it is difficult to interpret accurately. Okay maybe if Shino is Eina. We still don't know enough about Eina to assume too much about her.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:16 pm
by lukan
anyone got a pretty good list of all the G.U. avatar's powers?
(especially skieth's.....evolution?!)
>_>
Toszi
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:07 am
by Tylec
I have a theory - one I don't personally subscribe to, but still a possible theory on Ovan's overarching motivations.
There's a saying regarding drama that if there are dueling pistols over the mantelpiece in the first act, they should be fired in the third. Set up your plot elements early on so that when they do come to play, they aren't awkward surprises.
(a .hack example of dueling pistols might be the concept of Apoptosis - in Sign, Bear and Mimiru discuss the need for systems to selectively kill pieces of itself in order to successfully grow, and at the end of Quarantine, Wiseman picks up this idea to explain the "death" of Aura.)
Here's my thought: the Terminal Disc, although basically a Coles Notes summary of what happened in between games, feels the need to make some strong points about the motivations of its two main characters.
Jun Bansyoya has gone underground and hidden himself, and Amagi is apparently a vegetable - it's 90% certain they'll have no appearances to contribute within the actual G.U. games, and yet the writers felt a need to emphasize that in the R.A. Project, it was always Jyotaro Amagi's intentionto merge his consciousness with the new Ultimate AI and become a network god.
But Amagi's out of the picture now, right? He has no further bearing on the plot - why bother to give his character that extra, almost needless bit of data if he's thrown away so quickly?
Unless it's to throw that possibility out on the table - that a human mind could merge with an Aura-type being and trandscend. Just like they throw out the possiblity that AIDA could be a massive new Cubia.
So, dueling pistols on the mantlepiece. The idea is proposed in the files of the terminal disc, and so far it has had no bearing on the plot, but could an ascension to Godhood be the selfish masterplan Ovan has been working towards since before //Roots?
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:04 am
by Tadashi
Kuukai wrote:Actually, it says "CC creating false charges." Am I the only one who thinks this sounds really cool, as it implies some sort of "The Trial of Ovan" scene? And Salvador Aihara steps forward with his three weeks of nighttime law courses to defend him! That really would make the last episode of Online Jack the best one ever, as was claimed... Regardless, the protesters are awesome on so many levels.
Sorry, but this has to be:
"OBJECTION!!!" XD
@Dragoon2044
And that also explains why Shino has a cellphone and Haseo visits her daily ¬_¬
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:24 pm
by Kuukai
Or "異議あり！" in the Japanese version... Salvador would hit on the witnesses... Seriously, an Ovan's trial mini game would beat the crud out of Crimson VS, and maybe even the actual game...
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:31 pm
by Kouen
Kuukai wrote:Or "異議あり！" in the Japanese version... Salvador would hit on the witnesses... Seriously, an Ovan's trial mini game would beat the crud out of Crimson VS, and maybe even the actual game...
Agreed, it would be like Phoenix Wright, .hack style.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:46 pm
by Dragoon2044
@Dragoon2044
And that also explains why Shino has a cellphone and Haseo visits her daily ¬_¬
yeah so? that wouldn't interfere with Ovan's big plan or the like.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:08 pm
by Kouen
Dragoon2044 wrote:@Dragoon2044
And that also explains why Shino has a cellphone and Haseo visits her daily ¬_¬
yeah so? that wouldn't interfere with Ovan's big plan or the like.
Unless cell phones are Ovan's greatest enemy.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:54 pm
by AuraTwilight
Thats right. I would assume each epitaph has a trade mark function as you described Innis and Magus. Perhaps Corbenik can restore ruined data? Its all up in the air right now as to what Corbenik will do. Since Ovan plays such a centralized role in the story, Corbenik being his avatar. The question is what fate is Ovan trying to avert by involving Haseo and Skeith, the terror of death?
AIDA infecting all of mankind?
If Ovan and Phyllo have the same problem and Haseo is Ovan's future, what will happen to Ovan in the real world and in the game? Where does Shino play into all this?
Phyllo was probably talking about how Ovan's AIDA works as a cancer in his PC, not an actual life threatening illness. As for Shino's role, she's basically the Orca/Kazu of the story. Motivation for Haseo and Ovan.
I'm thinking Ovan will die in real life and then reappear in 'the world'. Shino will then wake from her coma along with the other lost ones. Another distict possibility is that Ovan will simply die in real life leaving his avatar Corbenik data drained by Skeith. Shino would then wake up.
I'm thinking he won't. They already explored that plot thread with
Midori and .hack's philosophy is pretty adamant that it's not a good thing for a human to live in the network.
Then there is the question of Eina. They say she sits in a chair crying while Ovan comes to visit her and she opens her eyes. i know Eina might be the product of the failed R.A. plan, yet i'm also wondering about Shino actually being Eina. It would be a big secret until after Ovan dies. Somehow that would also fit with our theory of Shino being the new Aura. that might not be the case however, since Aura abandoned the individual, left to the wind, became null, so it is difficult to interpret accurately. Okay maybe if Shino is Eina. We still don't know enough about Eina to assume too much about her.
Why would Shino be Eina? They have nothing in common. They look different, seem to act different, and Eina is quite clearly an AI. On top of that, if Eina was Shino, she'd be smiling at Ovan's arrival.
anyone got a pretty good list of all the G.U. avatar's powers?
(especially skieth's.....evolution?!)
What do you mean by Skeith's evolution? He's only changing his appearance when Haseo does, like all the Avatars would if their owners were Multi-Weapons.
The only confirmed powers we have are Innis's mirages and Magus's propagation.
I have a theory - one I don't personally subscribe to, but still a possible theory on Ovan's overarching motivations.
There's a saying regarding drama that if there are dueling pistols over the mantelpiece in the first act, they should be fired in the third. Set up your plot elements early on so that when they do come to play, they aren't awkward surprises.
(a .hack example of dueling pistols might be the concept of Apoptosis - in Sign, Bear and Mimiru discuss the need for systems to selectively kill pieces of itself in order to successfully grow, and at the end of Quarantine, Wiseman picks up this idea to explain the "death" of Aura.)
Here's my thought: the Terminal Disc, although basically a Coles Notes summary of what happened in between games, feels the need to make some strong points about the motivations of its two main characters.
Jun Bansyoya has gone underground and hidden himself, and Amagi is apparently a vegetable - it's 90% certain they'll have no appearances to contribute within the actual G.U. games, and yet the writers felt a need to emphasize that in the R.A. Project, it was always Jyotaro Amagi's intentionto merge his consciousness with the new Ultimate AI and become a network god.
But Amagi's out of the picture now, right? He has no further bearing on the plot - why bother to give his character that extra, almost needless bit of data if he's thrown away so quickly?
Unless it's to throw that possibility out on the table - that a human mind could merge with an Aura-type being and trandscend. Just like they throw out the possiblity that AIDA could be a massive new Cubia.
So, dueling pistols on the mantlepiece. The idea is proposed in the files of the terminal disc, and so far it has had no bearing on the plot, but could an ascension to Godhood be the selfish masterplan Ovan has been working towards since before //Roots?
I'm normally inclined to believe you, but I think the only reason the whole Amagi-Godhood thing was involved was to explain why the RA Plan failed. Ovan doesn't seem to be that selfish, in my opinion. If he's been working to become a God all this time, he wouldn't be so adamant on getting Haseo to defeat him and strip him of all his powers.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:06 pm
by TheSorrow
If Ovan wanted to become a 'god' he wouldnt even have the lock in his arm.
I am greatly interested in knowing how Ovan could make a contact with people and cause those reactions. He could've told them about the coma victims thanks to CC Corp's game, but that's all i can think at the moment.
I want Vol. 2 and 3 so bad right now ._.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:08 pm
by Kouen
Ovan wouldn't really be a god if he is being controlled by black bubbles. He won't be in control then, the AIDA will.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:14 pm
by ashlay
Kouen wrote:Ovan wouldn't really be a god if he is being controlled by black bubbles. He won't be in control then, the AIDA will.
Sakaki apparently doesn't seem to see this distinction. nor do some of the other infected players.
which also brings up the issue of Sakaki basically having the goal named above: controlling everything. To avoid repitition, I doubt they'll have Ovan have a goal as simple as total domination.
TheSorrow wrote:I want Vol. 2 and 3 so bad right now ._.
tick tock. tick tock. *sigh*
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:14 pm
by Tylec
AuraTwilight wrote:I'm normally inclined to believe you, but I think the only reason the whole Amagi-Godhood thing was involved was to explain why the RA Plan failed. Ovan doesn't seem to be that selfish, in my opinion. If he's been working to become a God all this time, he wouldn't be so adamant on getting Haseo to defeat him and strip him of all his powers.
Unless - like Aura - Ovan needs to destroy his mortal self and individuality before he can attempt any ascension.
By the way, what's the importance of Shino carrying a cellphone and Haseo visiting her daily to this supposed trial? Is this a Phoenix Wright in-joke?
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:37 pm
by ashlay
Tylec wrote:AuraTwilight wrote:I'm normally inclined to believe you, but I think the only reason the whole Amagi-Godhood thing was involved was to explain why the RA Plan failed. Ovan doesn't seem to be that selfish, in my opinion. If he's been working to become a God all this time, he wouldn't be so adamant on getting Haseo to defeat him and strip him of all his powers.
Unless - like Aura - Ovan needs to destroy his mortal self and individuality before he can attempt any ascension.
maybe....I wish ovan would show a little more emotion in the new trailer when he says "Am I deprived of everything?" at least we'd have an answer to this issue.
I feel as though he doesn't sound particularly happy when he says it, but its just monotone enough to be up to interpretation.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:07 pm
by AuraTwilight
Unless - like Aura - Ovan needs to destroy his mortal self and individuality before he can attempt any ascension.
It still doesn't explain like half the things he does. I think Ovan simply wants to destroy the AIDA.
By the way, what's the importance of Shino carrying a cellphone and Haseo visiting her daily to this supposed trial? Is this a Phoenix Wright in-joke?
*Has no idea what you're talking about.*
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:29 pm
by Kouen
AuraTwilight wrote:By the way, what's the importance of Shino carrying a cellphone and Haseo visiting her daily to this supposed trial? Is this a Phoenix Wright in-joke?
*Has no idea what you're talking about.*
By that reference I was referring to Kuukai's idea of an mini-ingame trial game.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:19 pm
by Dragoon2044
i'm not too familiar with Midori and her story. i've only seen roots and played through volume 1 so i don't know about that. also i'm not really sure we really know what aida's goals are. taking over man kind? it seems cliche. i'm speaking generally of Ovan's fate, not aida specifically because we don't know thier true make up and purpose.
i brought up the Shino/Aina idea because i don't know too much about Aina except for that screenshot.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:19 pm
by .hack//BICTIOUS
I'm kinda confused about that too. Particularly since, even in modern day, you're more or less non-existant if you don't have a cell phone.
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:21 pm
by Kouen
.hack//BICTIOUS wrote:I'm kinda confused about that too. Particularly since, even in modern day, you're more or less non-existant if you don't have a cell phone.
What does Shino having a cell phone have to do with AIDA and how they effect AIDA-PCs?