Japanese voiceover...

[Aedgoll]

right, i never said you were. And what I meant was that since theres so much more content then the original 4 games, they probably wont have space on the disk for an alternate audio track. And that being the case they should (and will) include the english audio for the game. Why will they, for all the reasons I said before. If it stayed in japanese it would narrow the field of customers for them.

[Shell]

Which makes those of us who prefer the original Japanese voices sob in distress.

All I have to say is that they had best get a better cast for G.U. than the first .hack games. Because I don't know if I can put up with another "Izzy."

[Luckydan]

sorry luckydan, i couldnt disagree more. While i have seen some pretty crappy dubs in my time, generally speaking for the non japanese language crowd, we lose alot of the emotion the creators put in simply because of the language barrier.


Yes, there are some horrible dubs out there, but as anime gets more and more popular in the US and other countries, the dubbing will get better as it has been in some of the more recent anime series released (naruto not included) like FMA. It ranks up there (with Trigun and Cowboy Bebop mainly) with its awesome dub and localization. Anime is becoming extremely popular in the western world and the quality of the dubs will rise with that popularity.

There is something lost in the translation from any language to another, but that is usually made up with the localization process. If something doesnt translate well, they change the wording to keep the context and story intact. One Piece is an absolute travesty of a dub mainly for the reason that 4kids got their nasty little hands on it. I dont even watch anything from 4kids merely for the fact that they butcher anything they come into contact with.

In response to your KH2 opening statement; Utada Hikaru wrote the english version of the song first, then she wrote the japanese version. So technically its an english song trying to be japanese.

And purely from a business standpoint, its bad business to air something over here in the states or in any english speaking country if its not in english. Why? People dont want to watch something they cant understand. You reference Trapt although that game was released to horrible sales and in some cases even more horrible reviews. A main point in many of those reviews? The original japanese audio with no english option. Not only does it make it appear that the project was half assed, regular people out just to play a good game or watch a good show dont want to watch something they cant understand, and dont want to have to read subtitles in order to understand anything. This is why most companies dont do it, in fact you would be hard pressed to find something released here with no english audio (the only one ive seen like that is GitS 2)

Too each and his own I say, some people pefer dubs and some people pefer subs, I'm just explaining to ppl why do ppl like subs not that Hack GU should be a sub (Though I wouldnt mind if they release a sub version and a dub version) which you seemed to have missed. I agree with most of what you say about they are improving dubs, and henceforth of localization but when someone dirty gets their hands on it like Working Designs where they reference about the government, smoke drugs and actors it gets a bit much but the point this goes for is anime, and they come with an option of Japanese vocal so it doesnt really matter making this critism rather pointless and futile since we have the best of both worlds.

However for games its a different matter, we dont have this option and dubs havent improved as much as the progress of anime. As most of them sound really really bad and there is a long list of bad game dubs. Now I aint saying like KH2 is a bad dub not one bad voice in that game at all, its nice to have someone famous in there like Count Dracula, no Count Dooku, Christopher Lee, but lets compare the list of bad to good dubs.

Bad:
Suikoden V is bearable Suikoden IV is bad ( and they been recently released) MegaMan series, Samurai Legend Musashi, Valkyire profile ( and they hired top voice actors for this , not much hope cause they did get the translation wrong), Tales of Legendia, FF series (bearable voices ), Xenosaga, Shadow Hearts 3 bearable, Star Ocean, Legaia.

Good:
KH series, Project Zero Series, Bio Hazard series (orginally in english btw) Silent Hill series (same as previous)

And this is a few games ive played or playing right now , even square-enix hire bearable voice actors (except KH2 o/w disney in america would murder them) and I'm just wondering whats the point, treating games as if they are just for kids. The other argument is that the subs is not up to scratch, but all the dubs do is translate what they say and they read it out in a monotone voice. Same as like translating FF6 on SNES except with text not voice.

The other mute point you pointed out in a RPG is that ppl prefer to listen rather than read but guess what you do in a RPG, thats right read !!!! Quite a mute point you missed, you do this in trapt, you do this in KH2 and you do this in Hack why are you bother playing an RPG game if you dont want to read? Even though you disagree about my opinon and state for a fact that dubs is more preferable then subs by english standards its not necessary. Much like reading a book, all voice acting does for the game is enhance it. If the voice acting is bad it ruins the game regardless of what language it is in and this is where companies become rather careless and you wonder why did they bother if they cant get the character vocalization right?

Referring to KH2 technically, yes but no because of the fact that she is Japanese, and therefore the song is quite more natural in Japanese then in English. I listen to both, and the Japanese one sounds much much more fluent and natural to her even though it was written in English first.

Referring to Trapt, Trapt that is a pointless critisim for many reasons,
1. NO ONE has ever heard of the game. It came out mysteriously (even i was saying wtf where the hell did this game come from), like many PS2 games even ign doesnt even have a review on it !!!!!!!
2. I havent seen it advertised in many magazine/ the web so there is no chance of it having a good review/sales

These are the points you forget to state at all.

Also there is one game that blows your theory out of water WE<3 Kamatari, original Japanese voiceovers, song and everything and also great reviews.

[Aedgoll]

I thought Xenosaga had good voices.. well, Xenosaga 2 could use some work, but 1 was great.

And the point i missed about RPGs is the reading, but if you've noticed, RPGs of late tend to have a nearly insane amount of FMV's in them. I meant during said FMVs, people dont want to have to deal with a foreign language. And yes, ive always wondered in the case of some horrible dubs how some big wig executive says "yeah this is good" and ships it out. But no, the translation process is alot longer then you make it out to be. They have to translate the script then localize it. Without the ever crucial localization step, people who played it wouldnt know what the hell was going on because they would be stuck deciphering literal translations. You sound like you would know that not everything translates smoothly from any language to another and literal translations in either case only serve to confuse those they are set upon.

And Utada may be Japanese, but she was born here in the states. New York I believe. It seems to me that she learned both languages at around the same time.

Just because a game wasnt publicized doesnt mean it wont get good reviews. I think I saw maybe 2 ads for Shadow Hearts: Covenant back around its release, and it got RPG of the year from many game sites and magazines. Im just bringing up a point I saw in some magazines and on a review on G4. They lowered the score because there was no english audio.

And We <3 Katamari is meant to be just a wacky, crazy game. Taking away the insane japanese songs and voices would have dulled that experience. So basically; it works in some games, not in others. Usually doesnt really work in the majority of games.

[Luckydan]

I thought Xenosaga had good voices.. well, Xenosaga 2 could use some work, but 1 was great.

And the point i missed about RPGs is the reading, but if you've noticed, RPGs of late tend to have a nearly insane amount of FMV's in them. I meant during said FMVs, people dont want to have to deal with a foreign language. And yes, ive always wondered in the case of some horrible dubs how some big wig executive says "yeah this is good" and ships it out. But no, the translation process is alot longer then you make it out to be. They have to translate the script then localize it. Without the ever crucial localization step, people who played it wouldnt know what the hell was going on because they would be stuck deciphering literal translations. You sound like you would know that not everything translates smoothly from any language to another and literal translations in either case only serve to confuse those they are set upon.

And Utada may be Japanese, but she was born here in the states. New York I believe. It seems to me that she learned both languages at around the same time.

Just because a game wasnt publicized doesnt mean it wont get good reviews. I think I saw maybe 2 ads for Shadow Hearts: Covenant back around its release, and it got RPG of the year from many game sites and magazines. Im just bringing up a point I saw in some magazines and on a review on G4. They lowered the score because there was no english audio.

And We <3 Katamari is meant to be just a wacky, crazy game. Taking away the insane japanese songs and voices would have dulled that experience. So basically; it works in some games, not in others. Usually doesnt really work in the majority of games.

The other problem I see after a bit of thought is that we are paying a bit of money for these games now. I'm not saying they should get rid of the dubs and replace with subs of games, they should release 2 versions of each Role Playing Game or do something similar like Hack Sign. Too be honest it was really the fansubs that got the games over here (when watching and liking hack sign i didnt think the games would come over to the US then a year later they all did ) and the developers should respect that by releasing a Sub version of hack GU but you know they probably wont do it . If I knew that the games had japanese vocals i would of bought a ps2 and all 4 hack games in a jiffy, wish they advertised it though.

The consumers are now paying a bit of cash for these games now and they should get what they desire whether the game is in dub format or sub format its up to them to which ones they want to purchase, they might do it if everyone banned together and sent emails to bandai (All types though especially people who like dubs over subs and vicea versa (since it was the effort of the fansubbers to get the hack games over here )).

Actually Im sorry about the KH2 quote, both of them are completely different songs written by the same person >.<. I thought it was a direct translation but in fact they are not. Japanese one is Passion the English one is Sanctuary both are completely different to one another.

The other about SH: Convenant, I have to disagree about that one I have seen previews and upcoming pics of it being released in Japan and US there was a build up but not to the extent of FF but Kagero 2 not one word at all its like ping and it appeared out of no where. I'm not joking I was like Tecmo Deception 3, then suddenly 4 years later this trapt appeared from the US in my bedroom which my brother ordered I was going wtfomgbbq where the hell did that come from? The other problem with trapt is the stupid name why didnt they rename it to Tecmo's Deception: Kagero 2 is beyond me.

However if they dont do a sub version of Hack GU I hope they do a bloody good job in the english version as from the trailer that "SF ken voice" of haseo is annoying, i was expecting him to go HA~DO~KEN SHIP~PU SHO~RYUUUU~KEN against Tri-edge

[Aedgoll]

Bandai has done a pretty good job in the past with voices, liminality and SIGN had good dubs, LotT was decent (except Rena's voice. I contemplated suicide more then a human should in an entire lifetime while her voice was scratching against the very fabric of my existance) Plus the Gundam Series they have dubbed havent been bad at all. So I have confidance that they wont screw this one up.

I seriously doubt they would release 2 versions of the game. As ive said before, despite what the customers and established fan base want, its simply bad business. It would cost them even more money to push out the 2 different versions and it would be an uncertainty if the subbed version would sell. Huge international conglomorates such as Bandai dont want to deal with uncertainties. Especially with millions of dollars on the line.

[Luckydan]

Bandai has done a pretty good job in the past with voices, liminality and SIGN had good dubs, LotT was decent (except Rena's voice. I contemplated suicide more then a human should in an entire lifetime while her voice was scratching against the very fabric of my existance) Plus the Gundam Series they have dubbed havent been bad at all. So I have confidance that they wont screw this one up.

I seriously doubt they would release 2 versions of the game. As ive said before, despite what the customers and established fan base want, its simply bad business. It would cost them even more money to push out the 2 different versions and it would be an uncertainty if the subbed version would sell. Huge international conglomorates such as Bandai dont want to deal with uncertainties. Especially with millions of dollars on the line.

I'm thinking the same as well, I have boycotted many RPG series cause they have dubbed them and I betcha many thousands of others have as well but the mystery remains why they dont release sub and dub versions of the game. As well as the stupid reason why PS2 console only plays for that region and want to void the mod chip to play games in other countries, voided by the fact that DVD players play dvds from every other reason. Damn Elitist companies and their stupid ideals.

The other point is that RPGs are the bottom of the food chain in the Western World and we are a minority, the most popular games by far are sports, racing followed by fighting.

[Dengar]

And all are overshadowed by silly FPS's.


Either way, there is one thing I will NEVER forgive Bandai for if they do it. And that is replacing the original songs with stupid instrumentals. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, NAMCO.

[Aedgoll]

i doubt they would Dengar, they didnt with the first 4 games or the anime's. The farthest they'll go with the music is take the current japanese tracks and turn them english (like the tri edge fight song in the first trailer was in english, they'll just change it back to that instead of the current Japanese version of that song)

[Dengar]

I don't mind translated songs. I mind if they put stupid instrumentals in their place. Like what happened to all of the Tales games.

[Shell]

Replacing the original songs have sort of gone out of style. Kingdom Hearts I and II got lucky because Utada is fluent with her English, and thus they don't have to pay another singer and go through legal crap to produce the english version of the song.

I doubt the two current trailer songs were both sung in Japanese and English because they are going to dub over all the songs that may be in the game/OVA. More often than not, dubbed songs aren't done well enough. I highly doubt they'll do that... dialogue in a song, yes (such as the Quarantine opening, which made sense to dub over) but not the actual lyrics to the songs. Replacing a Japanese voice actor with an English-speaking voice actor is one thing, as the game dialogue is a much larger chunk that people are going to listen to, but replacing a singer is another. EDIT: Whoops, I stand corrected. The vocalist for the trailer songs is actually the woman who did the chorus-like songs (such as Aura's theme, etc) within the game. Well, at least I knew that the voice sounded familiar. :p

But, now that I think about it, they very well could just have the original vocalist sing any of the songs in english, since she seems capable of it. And that would be fine with me, though it might turn out a little engrish-ee.

[Sarah]

I know some people do care about the Japanese Sub or not but yes if they don't mass up with the English one and make the Game sound bad then I'll be worried but right now I do care a tiny bit if there going to be Japanese Sub with the English one or not but yes it is something to think about.

[Luckydan]

I know some people do care about the Japanese Sub or not but yes if they don't mass up with the English one and make the Game sound bad then I'll be worried but right now I do care a tiny bit if there going to be Japanese Sub with the English one or not but yes it is something to think about.

It would be nice if they release both the Japanese Sub version and the English Dub version but your also missing a point is that we are not paying like 20 bucks for a dvd we are paying much more than that and at least they give us the option of either playing with another language or releasing like 2 versions of the game. I'm sure its not that hard at all,even easier than dubs but the companies like to give the illusion of it been harder to create subs than dubs (meh what bs). For some odd reason dub people thinks that sub people want to ericadicate dubs, thats the impression I'm getting from a lot of people on this board, but in fact is that we (consumers both dub and sub ppl mind you) want a choice thats what the whole arguement is about, neglecting the fact that we are paying like 80+ dollars AUS for a game thats at least 4 times the cost of a DVD over here and DVDs are even cheaper to obtain in the US. I gave reasons why people like subs over dubs, its the same thing as watching ala a french movie in english dub voices, or watching world movies and I assume people all into that, since you all have a percuilar interest in anime and Jap RPGs. It aint the ol Sub vs Dub debate, no one cares about that, its all about choice.

Take for example DOA 4 that has dub and sub version, so does SC III so does many other fighting games and yet we dont have an option of this in RPG games and yet we do in other games/dvd? Makes you wonder why?

[Kuukai]

Take for example DOA 4 that has dub and sub version, so does SC III so does many other fighting games and yet we dont have an option of this in RPG games and yet we do in other games/dvd? Makes you wonder why?

Because modern RPGs have gigs upon gigs of audio, without gigs upon gigs of empty disc space (those are filled to the brim with FMVs), so it often won't fit. Some weird unspoken quality standard prevents Japanese gamemakers from using lossy and often even lossless audio compression, but even if they did, it would still be impossible in the case of many games to fit the entirety of both tracks on one disc. Surround sound is another reason it takes up so much space, and in those cases it's usually impossible to get both on one disc. Sony of America's CEO claimed at one point that Blu-Ray would put an end to this. I believe he said something like, "I don't see why we can't just release one disc for every region." But whether or not that happens, we'll have to wait and see.

[Luckydan]

Because modern RPGs have gigs upon gigs of audio, without gigs upon gigs of empty disc space (those are filled to the brim with FMVs), so it often won't fit. Some weird unspoken quality standard prevents Japanese gamemakers from using lossy and often even lossless audio compression, but even if they did, it would still be impossible in the case of many games to fit the entirety of both tracks on one disc. Surround sound is another reason it takes up so much space, and in those cases it's usually impossible to get both on one disc. Sony of America's CEO claimed at one point that Blu-Ray would put an end to this. I believe he said something like, "I don't see why we can't just release one disc for every region." But whether or not that happens, we'll have to wait and see.

Sorry was talking out of context, meant to say we should have an option of either in the game of having Japanese audio and English Audio or at least release 2 versions of the Game, Sub and Dub Versions like they did with the old VHS, but I know it aint gonna happen from your second point about the SOA CEO "I don't see why we can't just release one disc for every region.", but in DVD players they play every region but not game DVDs, weirder and weirder by the day? Oh regarding the blue-ray disc it will happen cause Sony just lost the lawsuit in outlawing Mod Chips, because of the DVD regioning why should we have to buy 3-4 different PS2 cause of Sony's lack of intelligence to allow PS2 to play games in all regions, they allowed it in PS1 to make themselves popular and now they dislike in PS2.

[Kuukai]

Sorry was talking out of context, meant to say we should have an option of either in the game of having Japanese audio and English Audio or at least release 2 versions of the Game, Sub and Dub Versions like they did with the old VHS, but I know it aint gonna happen from your second point about the SOA CEO "I don't see why we can't just release one disc for every region.", but in DVD players they play every region but not game DVDs, weirder and weirder by the day? Oh regarding the blue-ray disc it will happen cause Sony just lost the lawsuit in outlawing Mod Chips, because of the DVD regioning why should we have to buy 3-4 different PS2 cause of Sony's lack of intelligence to allow PS2 to play games in all regions, they allowed it in PS1 to make themselves popular and now they dislike in PS2.

Actually, sorry, I was accidentally ambiguous. What I meant he said was that he wants there to be a single disc that covers all regions. As in, just one version of the game. Now, I'm not sure if the rest of Sony likes that, and it's not the most profitable idea, but it's sure a noble one. For the PS2 it wasn't "lack of intelligence", it was greedy profiteering. It's the reason why Japanese Anime DVDs cost 2.5 times as much as American ones and have less episodes, features, and language options. It's really annoying, 'cause the evil corporations that come up with this are the same ones who came up with outsourcing... Er, anywho, back on topic, I've heard from a variety of sources that the PS3 will be region free game-wise, and this might make the all-versions-on-one-disc idea doable. There're profits there too, since it's easier to make just one version, and they want to use BD's massive capacity to have some sort of advantage over the 360's DVD games, so it might market well.
And what do you mean they allowed it in PS1? I always thought it was region protected.
Anywho, getting back on topic, I think that if (and that's a big if) they ever make .hack games on the PS3, you won't have to worry: they will be bilingual... Or more...

[Luckydan]

Actually, sorry, I was accidentally ambiguous. What I meant he said was that he wants there to be a single disc that covers all regions. As in, just one version of the game. Now, I'm not sure if the rest of Sony likes that, and it's not the most profitable idea, but it's sure a noble one. For the PS2 it wasn't "lack of intelligence", it was greedy profiteering. It's the reason why Japanese Anime DVDs cost 2.5 times as much as American ones and have less episodes, features, and language options. It's really annoying, 'cause the evil corporations that come up with this are the same ones who came up with outsourcing... Er, anywho, back on topic, I've heard from a variety of sources that the PS3 will be region free game-wise, and this might make the all-versions-on-one-disc idea doable. There're profits there too, since it's easier to make just one version, and they want to use BD's massive capacity to have some sort of advantage over the 360's DVD games, so it might market well.
And what do you mean they allowed it in PS1? I always thought it was region protected.
Anywho, getting back on topic, I think that if (and that's a big if) they ever make .hack games on the PS3, you won't have to worry: they will be bilingual... Or more...

Yep its region protected but they made the PS1 so easily modded that it wasnt funny. Even watched the guy done it, just one wire here one chip here and one wire there. Wielded the wires on and hey presto a PS that can play all regions and all games.

Sorry what I meant by "lack of intelligence" is that they allowed the PS2 to be moddable and then suddenly wanted to take it back by going to court and by all means they released DVD players that can play all regions, mp3s and even more. Trying to get away with that is just foolish.

Anyways before we get discussing on the shadier side of gaming, I just want my choice in what format I wanna play my hack games in !!

[Nenja]

well it confirmed that it will have only english Tracks

confirmed in here http://www.bonusstage.com/article.php?a ... &comments= second page

[Gundam_Alchemist]

i say they sell to different kind of games one with english dub and another with english subs. sorta like a special edition. disc space on a ps 2 is limited but if this was a ps 3 title they probably be able to add both dub and sub. but some of use can hardly wait as is.

[HikariNiwa]

Sigh~, for me, no matter how god-like or perfect an english dub is, it doesn't seem to appeal to me. I can't even listen to popular american songs without yawning a bit. Maybe I should just go learn japanese. But what will my racist korean parents think?