Obama's health care reform

[S1lentOp]

I understand what both of you are saying, but I don't think this will work out for America.

Why not? It's not as if you've demonstrated any kind of understanding of the health care reform so far, so what makes you think it won't work?

Health Care wasn't perfect. It wasn't broken as well.

Exploitative insurance contracts, rising premium rates, people being dropped from their plans for being sick, and more than 30 million people uninsured isn't broken?

It wouldn't surprise me if the USA becomes a communist country someday.

You're kidding, right?

Not just because of UHC, but many other reasons as well.

Like what?

The people in the USA are lowly losing their rights.

Where were you when the PATRIOT Act was signed? Regulating the health insurance industry isn't taking away anybody's rights or liberties.

Should health care be a natural right to a certain extent? yes. Should it be universal in a country like America? hell no.

Why the hell not in America?

It may not happen, but if people start to riot at the hospitals, and at the government we know why.

This is just asinine.

[Ranylyn]

I'm sorry, zaseo, but I give up with trying to get through to you. You are clearly incapable of proving a point with facts and proven research and just state erronious propaganda with nothing to support your false claims. Oh, and another thing: you clearly don't understand communism so you are no longer permitted to say that word, because you just fling it around the way people online fling the word "gay" without even thinking about what it means (seriously, I knew a homosexual who called everyone gay as if it was an insult coming from him.)

I'll stop trying to preach to you on the condition you stop posting things like that on issues you don't understand.

[AuraTwilight]

(seriously, I knew a homosexual who called everyone gay as if it was an insult coming from him.)

We know each other in real life?!

[Ranylyn]

(seriously, I knew a homosexual who called everyone gay as if it was an insult coming from him.)

We know each other in real life?!

*bursts out laughing* I dunno, probably not, did you go to high school in a small Canadian town called Russell?

Edit: And since I doubt you're him, I'll explain why I say "as if it was an insult." See, I have a lot of gay friends, but this guy was kind of too silly to be taken seriously. He once tried to mix and match the school uniform in ridiculous ways including wearing his friend's skirt on his head, thinking no one could complain because he wasn't breaking any rules. And when he was being sent home he was yelling "JENNY CRAIG!" at our annorexic office staff... so yeah

[AuraTwilight]

Your friend is awesome and sounds like a stupider vision of me.

[zaseo]

I know what the bill has to offer. The thing that I'm concerned about is the government. The USA government is full of corruption. Sure they may make everything seem fine, but it is not. If people protest with force on a massive scale what will they do then? Martial law is a possibility considering many Americans hate the idea of Universal Healthcare. There will always be corruption, but with Universal Healthcare that corruption can be taken to a much greater scale. Sooner, or later someone is going f*ck around with UHC, and abuse it to their advantage.

The Patriot Act sign few years ago takes away a few of our rights for security.

"People who are willing to give up liberty for security doesn't deserved both."

Can't remember who said this quote, and the words aren't the exact same, but close enough.

[Erranty]

The only real thing I take issue with is that if you don't get health insurance by a certain date you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine (since you couldn't afford Health insurance) you can be sent to prison. To pass a law that allows that in a time where we have an unemployment rate so high, I'm surprised people haven't attempted to press charges against their state senators and governors for treason!

[S1lentOp]

I know what the bill has to offer. The thing that I'm concerned about is the government. The USA government is full of corruption. Sure they may make everything seem fine, but it is not. If people protest with force on a massive scale what will they do then? Martial law is a possibility considering many Americans hate the idea of Universal Healthcare. There will always be corruption, but with Universal Healthcare that corruption can be taken to a much greater scale. Sooner, or later someone is going f*ck around with UHC, and abuse it to their advantage.

After the diatribe I'm absolutely convinced you have no idea what any of the provisions in this bill are.

The only real thing I take issue with is that if you don't get health insurance by a certain date you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine (since you couldn't afford Health insurance) you can be sent to prison. To pass a law that allows that in a time where we have an unemployment rate so high, I'm surprised people haven't attempted to press charges against their state senators and governors for treason!

Firstly, the individual mandate doesn't take effect until 2014. Secondly, those who are unable to pay for health insurance are offered financial aid and government subsidies in order to afford that health insurance. Those who refuse to pay for health insurance receive an increase in their taxes. If the person does not pay their taxes, then they face legal consequences for not paying their taxes. The fact is that when people don't buy health insurance and they get f*cked up, it raises costs for everyone else, so to balance out the costs the people who don't buy insurance pay higher taxes. There really is no reason why someone shouldn't have health insurance. If they're rich enough to pay out of pocket, then this tax is nickels and dimes by comparison and it helps keep rates lower overall.

[Erranty]

The only real thing I take issue with is that if you don't get health insurance by a certain date you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine (since you couldn't afford Health insurance) you can be sent to prison. To pass a law that allows that in a time where we have an unemployment rate so high, I'm surprised people haven't attempted to press charges against their state senators and governors for treason!

Firstly, the individual mandate doesn't take effect until 2014. Secondly, those who are unable to pay for health insurance are offered financial aid and government subsidies in order to afford that health insurance. Those who refuse to pay for health insurance receive an increase in their taxes. If the person does not pay their taxes, then they face legal consequences for not paying their taxes. The fact is that when people don't buy health insurance and they get f*cked up, it raises costs for everyone else, so to balance out the costs the people who don't buy insurance pay higher taxes. There really is no reason why someone shouldn't have health insurance. If they're rich enough to pay out of pocket, then this tax is nickels and dimes by comparison and it helps keep rates lower overall.

I guess that makes sense, all the stuff I've read on it seemed to point it out as a major factor. I guess if they actually have their bases covered its not such a bad thing. And I'm pretty sure the increased taxes are going to be less than the insurance, so I'll have to just handle it like that.

They may end up putting some new stuff on your tax forms if this is the case. You might have to put down how many times you went to a hospital that year, the cost of the operation(s), and if you have insurance or not, and what that insurance covered out of the costs vs how much you had to pay.

[AuraTwilight]

They may end up putting some new stuff on your tax forms if this is the case. You might have to put down how many times you went to a hospital that year, the cost of the operation(s), and if you have insurance or not, and what that insurance covered out of the costs vs how much you had to pay.

....


psssst...they already do that.

[S1lentOp]

They may end up putting some new stuff on your tax forms if this is the case. You might have to put down how many times you went to a hospital that year, the cost of the operation(s), and if you have insurance or not, and what that insurance covered out of the costs vs how much you had to pay.

The penalty will either be a set rate or a percentage of your income based on how many years you haven't owned health insurance since 2014.

"The penalty will be phased in, starting at $95 or 1 percent of income in 2014, whichever is higher, and rising to $695 or 2.5 percent of income in 2016. But families would not pay more than $2,085.

American Indians don’t have to buy insurance. Those with religious objections or a financial hardship can also avoid the requirement. And if you would pay more than 8 percent of your income for the cheapest available plan, you will not be penalized for failing to buy coverage.

Those who are exempt, or under 30, can buy a policy that only pays for catastrophic medical costs. It must allow for three primary care visits a year as well." - The New York Times

[zaseo]

America is getting a bit haughty with their pride. Could bill be the beginning of the fall of America? It is a possibility. No country can last forever.

[Azure Knight]

No country can last forever.

Ethiopia would like to have a word with you.

[Keyaki]

No country can last forever.

Ethiopia would like to have a word with you.

Yea seriously dude, what the hell is with your conspiracy theory-filled attitude?

Where did you get the idea, that all countries have to fall sooner or later?

[Azure Knight]

No country can last forever.

Ethiopia would like to have a word with you.

Yea seriously dude, what the hell is with your conspiracy theory-filled attitude?

Where did you get the idea, that all countries have to fall sooner or later?

Well, it's obvious that Obama is a Russian sleeper agent sent to destroy America by making healthcare more affordable so that the Communist gene can be injected into more people's veins, so when the Russians invade we all support their communist ways.

What, does that not make sense to you?

[Keyaki]

No country can last forever.

Ethiopia would like to have a word with you.

Yea seriously dude, what the hell is with your conspiracy theory-filled attitude?

Where did you get the idea, that all countries have to fall sooner or later?

Well, it's obvious that Obama is a Russian sleeper agent sent to destroy America by making healthcare more affordable so that the Communist gene can be injected into more people's veins, so when the Russians invade we all support their communist ways.

What, does that not make sense to you?

Heh, I just wanted to know why the hell, zaseo thinks the world is gonna end all the damn time.

I've been following this thread form the get-go, but I don't wanna contribute anything to this thread b/c I learned along time ago not to say anything politics-related without having some basic knowledge about politics and the government as whole, so I'm not really gonna reply to that part

[zaseo]

I never said the world was going to the end. I think the USA is going to fall like the Roman Empire that all. It feels like we're heading towards marital law.

[Azure Knight]

Heh, I just wanted to know why the hell, zaseo thinks the world is gonna end all the damn time.

I've been following this thread form the get-go, but I don't wanna contribute anything to this thread b/c I learned along time ago not to say anything politics-related without having some basic knowledge about politics and the government as whole, so I'm not really gonna reply to that part

Been wondering that myself for a while. And I'm the same, too, which is why I haven't been posting in this topic until now.

[Kuukai]

I never said the world was going to the end. I think the USA is going to fall like the Roman Empire that all. It feels like we're heading towards marital law.

All because we don't have people dying in the streets? Shouldn't that makes us look less like a crumbling empire?

Seriously though, a country with less than 5% of the world's population carrying both the responsibility and the authority to police the entire world is totally unsustainable. We need to work very hard on making the rest of the world less crazy before it's all over, but even when we finally stop and decide to have a normal military budget, that just means less people will have a reason to mess with America, we'll have more money to pay back our debts, and other countries will need to spend more on their own security. That's hardly ruination. It's generally what everyone wants, too, except Taiwan and Israel, but the only way to solve their problems is to stop imagining we'll have endless money. Heck, if we reverse our deficit we'll have a sizable economic weapon against China (our IOU's we haven't paid yet) and they'll have zip on us. No one's going to invade us, that would be a logistical nightmare. Our elected government has enough trouble...

The problem is most of the fiscal conservatives in this country love giant military budgets for some reason...

[Erranty]

Does America really look like and Empire? I mean, we have free trade, we haven't conquered anyone and taken their land, our leader doesn't control anything, and the people don't have convictions. Lets face it, we aren't doing much of anything other than supporting everyone else.

Entertainment and food. Without us 90% of Africa would die of boredom and hunger. Haiti would look like Fallout 3. And the Mexican's wouldn't have anywhere to get decent medical treatment!