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N3IWVC wrote:That's quite interesting...
so does this mean their appearance will change a little bit each time they extend?
or maybe they only get an overhaul once they reach Xth form.

I'm gonna read over the rest of it now, but it doesn't look like them mention the other extends anywhere else. That would be my guess, though.

AuraTwilight wrote:Agreed. Though you would think that it's more a metaphorical sleep, since the program to generate Cubia exists.

A human isn't asleep if they die but their parents still exist, but whatever, it was just a thought.

AuraTwilight wrote:The Twilight Bracelet is an accessory that allows Data Drain. Being able to Data Drain does not mean you have the Bracelet. If Data Drain is built directly into you, you shouldn't need the Bracelet.

The Avatars have bracelets, though, you can see them.

AuraTwilight wrote:So how does Haseo being able to communicate with an artificial intelligence like this break your suspension of disbelief?

It doesn't, but it sure sounds stupid if you say it a different way. That's pretty much my point.

_Tri-edge_ wrote:Alas, another Dissidia coincidence. A twin blade user who's Dual Blades interlock to form a staff? I wonder who that could be?

I think .hack actually had the first feline combining-dual-sword wielder, since Zidane didn't have that ability until Dissidia, though actually FFXII beat both of them at just having anyone who has one, and Gabranth is in Dissidia too. Link certainly isn't copying Dissidia, in any case, at best it's copying G.U., which copied FF12...

GyppyGirl2021 wrote:I still really don't get the explanation - it seems to contradict itself to me, but that's just me thinking too hard again. >.<

What part? Might need to rephrase something...

...The explanation just doesn't make sense. I dunno, but considering .hack//'s history, it's just kind of contradictory... it's hard to explain.

Also... I thought Zidane was a monkey. >.> *hasn't played FFIX*

And I'm pretty sure the glowing Skeith-swords are coming out of his armpits. At least, that's what it looks like to me. XD

_Tri-edge_ wrote:And you'd be correct. It's GIFT. They didn't even argue that much, if not, at all about their appearence in Unison.

If I recall correctly in GIFT there was just a rivalry as to who could find the hot springs first. Maybe some copy cat words were exchanged, don't remember. In Unison when they first meet Blackrose claims to be the original, while Mimiru calls he a copycat. Blackrose then says whatever, people will remember her as the legendary player to which Mimiru tells her she is now copying her and Balmung.

So doesn't that revert back to Kuukai's statement then?

No, see my statement.

A human isn't asleep if they die but their parents still exist, but whatever, it was just a thought.

I would see Harald as the parent, and the generation program as an egg or embryo or something.

The Avatars have bracelets, though, you can see them.

I see Data Drain blades unfolding. I do not see a Bracelet that just sits there when idle.

It doesn't, but it sure sounds stupid if you say it a different way. That's pretty much my point.

So? It's consistent with the logic of the series, and it sounds stupid to the characters who haven't experienced it.

Late to see this... I know many people feel "HOLY **** THIS IS SO KOOL LOL XTH FRMZ 4 EVRYBODDEH."

But true to my cynical disposition when it comes to .hack LINK (though I had become a bit optimistic recently regarding gameplay from what I've seen) I feel this is one of the more retarded things I've seen.

I may as well just write a ***** fanfiction where there is... I don't know some ULTIMATE BATTLE OF DESTINY AND **** where everyone in IMOQ gets a bracelet and fights a giant physical manisfestation of Morganna, the 8 phases and Cubia combined.

Because really, seeing ALL THESE GUYS get an Xth form, makes me feel like some stupid **** like that WOULD happen. This is not helping my opinion on LINK. You can argue all you want on things like this:

Kuukai wrote:Personally, I find this totally epic.

AuraTwilight wrote:Tremendously stupid; let's just go ahead and take away everything that made Haseo, and infact pretty much ANY of the characters, special.

That's kinda like saying that giving Twilight Bracelets to the 8 major characters in G.U. took away everything that made Kite special. Divorced from context, who the hell knows?

Call GU out for letting like EIGHT PEOPLE ONLY have the capability for data drain. Yet let what looks to be EVERYONE or at least A LOT of characters getting an Xth form be ABSOLUTELY okay. I mean ****, the Xth form went well for Haseo not only due to plot, but because he was an ADEPT ROGUE getting new forms was HIS THING. Now EVERYONE (maybe) gets one.

Why? This may add to gameplay (in a cliched way that I can only see being along the lines of "limit break") but what about the plot? I already find what LITTLE I know about the plot to be weak, impressions on the Manga don't help that, and now we have THIS.

***** LINK. WHY MUST YOU RUIN MY FAITH IN .HACK AT EVERY GOD DAMN TURN!? ...I honestly should expect dumb crap like this by now, but I give up, my optimism has been shot down, even if the game plays great it's highly likely the plot will suffer for it, and even if I end up liking LINK after playing it, on principle for all the **** they've given us I will always belittle this part of the series regardless.

Gemcrim wrote:Late to see this... I know many people feel "HOLY **** THIS IS SO KOOL LOL XTH FRMZ 4 EVRYBODDEH."

But true to my cynical disposition when it comes to .hack LINK (though I had become a bit optimistic recently regarding gameplay from what I've seen) I feel this is one of the more retarded things I've seen.

Same here. =/

Gemcrim wrote:I mean ****, the Xth form went well for Haseo not only due to plot, but because he was an ADEPT ROGUE getting new forms was HIS THING. Now EVERYONE (maybe) gets one.

I've been thinking about this for a while now. I mean, it doesn't make any sense giving Xth Forms to all those people (including R:1 characters) when it has been stated that only Adept Rogues can change forms. '-'

Kuukai wrote:The Avatars have bracelets, though, you can see them.

Well, I checked the wiki. It says that although the infinity eight lack bracelets, they still have the ability to Data Drain and sign hack, so in this sense, AT's right on this one.

Here's my take on the Xth Form thing. In G.U., it was a major thing that intertwined with the plot as well as Haseo's overall character and personality. It was the only thing that was exclusive to him and him only in the G.U. universe. Now, in //Link, CC2 just took the idea of that particular form, and just made it into a major gameplay upgrade, instead of a plot device in the story. It's just like what Kuukai was trying to explain with Kite and the Twilight Bracelet, or in actuality, I think he meant the power to Data Drain. At first, the power to data drain made Kite special compared to the other characters in IMOQ, because of the Twilight Bracelet. Then, in G.U., the powet to data drain was now given to eight special people plus one A.I. which basically took the idea of Kite only having that power completely out of the exclusive slot. Xth Form in G.U. focused more on plot rather than gameplay. With //Link, vice-versa. So, in a way, Xth Forms existing in //Link won't have that same purpose that it had in G.U. So with all due respect, I believe we'll just have to throw out the G.U. logic for Xth Form in general for this game.

_Tri-edge_ wrote:So with all due respect, I believe we'll just have to throw out the G.U. logic for Xth Form in general for this game.

Okay, sure, let's throw out EVERYTHING we had learned, not just from GU, let's get rid of IMOQ's logic as well, ROOTS, SIGN, LIMINALITY. Let's pretend none of those EVER HAPPENED, let's let gameplay trump over the story in a series where the plot is EVERYTHING (it had to be with the mediocre gameplay of IMOQ and slightly improved version in GU).

With Avatars of GU there was rational explanation regarding the phases (and from what we all hear it was supported by ZERO, and of course the GU disk giving us actually explanations as to their origin), hell with the lost weapons (fragments of the phases, not gonna go into this) things were still fine.

But this... okay let's ignore GU Xth form Haseo, how he achieved it, this is a HUGE challenge since it's you know... IMPORTANT. What then? We have a small bonus for gameplay, ignoring how Haseo get's it in GU we have what I assume are little special quests to acquire this. Trying... TRYING to ignore GU, okay, nice little addition, but so what I have Tokio and other with a super form now... GO ME!

It just ends up being that I don't give a ****. Now paying attention to GU, how Haseo gets it, I kinda CARE, big part of the STORY. I play .hack for the STORY because in the last two games gameplay wasn't the finest thing EVER. Even if gameplay is great here, I came to this series for the plot and I honestly couldn't care less if this bloody game was a visual novel, or ANYTHING ELSE so long as the story was enthralling.

So, screw this little "cool gameplay addition", **** ignoring what I know about the plot, and most importantly I don't care that the damn thing isn't out, it had it's chances to "wow" us before hand, to excite us like with GU, to discuss crazy awesome theories and LINK failed to do that from my perspective... with all this in mind I will UNFAIRLY say what others have and what I have: LINK sucks.

...I seem to recall saying somewhere that having the Twilight Bracelet was what gave Kite his exclusivity. The Eight Phases, while being (somewhat) mindless AIs, were still characters in their own right and they could use Data Drain, even in IMOQ (we get a taste of this in like the first scene of the game).

Anyway, I'm gonna have to side with Gemcrim on this one. (Hard to believe, innit? ) Gameplay additions should not trump the story - saying that .hack//LINK will be better with OVER 9000 different Xth forms kind of reminds me of what some elitist modern gamers say, insisting that Halo is the BEST THING EVAR. Except it's different, because .hack// is indeed story-driven, and that's what makes the series interesting. (Although, I loved the gameplay in G.U. Many may disagree.)

This is exhausting. Just wait for the game to come out and play it.

when the .hack//zero be traduced to any language... that day all we will be happpy!!!

azureus-albireo wrote:when the .hack//zero be traduced to any language... that day all we will be happpy!!!

How's that supposed to have something to do with Xth Forms or even .hack//Link? O.o

It's just a misguided noob mistake. No worries.

Okay, sure, let's throw out EVERYTHING we had learned, not just from GU, let's get rid of IMOQ's logic as well, ROOTS, SIGN, LIMINALITY. Let's pretend none of those EVER HAPPENED, let's let gameplay trump over the story in a series where the plot is EVERYTHING (it had to be with the mediocre gameplay of IMOQ and slightly improved version in GU).

Sure, why not? They already did that to the CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT mirite?

AuraTwilight wrote:

Okay, sure, let's throw out EVERYTHING we had learned, not just from GU, let's get rid of IMOQ's logic as well, ROOTS, SIGN, LIMINALITY. Let's pretend none of those EVER HAPPENED, let's let gameplay trump over the story in a series where the plot is EVERYTHING (it had to be with the mediocre gameplay of IMOQ and slightly improved version in GU).

Sure, why not? They already did that to the CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT mirite?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So this actually makes a lot of sense considering how much of a terrible state things are in.


I don't think I'd mind much if these forms were called SOMETHING ELSE, possibly related to the Chrono Cores and Akashic Records. But Xth form... with all that had to be done to get it in G.U. ...only to have it handed out to everyone... I can understand Kite and Tsukasa, maybe Blackrose and Mimiru, POSSIBLY Midori if I'm to stretch who I feel was important, but Tabby... TABBY?! ARE YOU ***** WITH ME?! TABBY DIDN'T DO JACK **** INVOLVING THE AVATARS AND CUBIA OR AIDA IN G.U. Oh wait... sorry... forgot it's acceptable to sacrifice the story for "AWSHUM" power ups, especially if they involve NURSE CATGIRLS WITH GIGANTIC TITS! And of course I hate Tokio beyond all reason...

So... there can NEVER be an adequate way to explain this, EVER.

.hack//Link is nothing more than a fan-fic gone horribly wrong. To be honest, .hack ended with G.U. Nough said. Link is just some bonus to the fans of the series who wanted something new, instead of the tedious requests for "WE NEED A NEW MMO!! NOW!!! RAWR!!" Take a good look at how CyberConnect2 is handling this series. Since day 1 I've noticed it. Tokio physically entering The World, called upon by one of the legendary dothackers and legend of the game itself, Kite, to save The World from Evil. He fights alongside the greatest characters of all the .hack series, and gains powers never before seen, or in this case, passed on by the earlier generations of The World's history, (i.e. Xth Form which was Haseo exclusive power.)

All this points to one thing. Tokio is in the position of every .hack fan's dream, or wish even. To gain all the powers, to fight all the epic battles, to fight with all the heroes and heroines of the series. CC2 basically created Tokio as a symbol to all the .hack fans wishes. The character himself merely serves as a medium for their wishes. Now, personally, I love this new edition to the game. I sure as hell didn't want to go through the whole game in a school uniform.>_> Not to mention, some characters involved with this change actually look cooler than they've ever been in their entire existance in this series. Kite looks badass, Blackrose is even sexier than ever, and Tsukasa actually looks like an adequate threat. Now of course, there are some who should of just stayed the way they are in terms of looks, especially Tabby...GOD...@_@.

Actually, Tabby's nurse hat, historically one of the most shallow character accessories known to humanity, ironically makes more sense to the story than, uh, any other Xth Form I've seen thus far, including to some degree Haseo's... A couple of other ones also contain more subtle character references, but Blackrose's horns confuse the hell out of me...

|<!73 wrote:This is exhausting. Just wait for the game to come out and play it.

I agree. Unfortunately, everyone's already decided. As long as Tokio looks stupid, it doesn't matter that things have always crossed the boundary from real to virtual via inexplicable and unexplained magic. Or that the Link definition of Xth form is perfectly compatible with the G.U. one, it's simply not Haseo's Xth Form for everyone else. It's the end of the world. I'm going to stop trying to validate it, everything's there in plain sight already for anyone with an open mind. I do have a lot of tangents going I'd like to wrap up, though....

Woa, I'm right, and I swear I wrote the entire above paragraph before even seeing this:

Gemcrim wrote:And of course I hate Tokio beyond all reason... so... there can NEVER be an adequate way to explain this, EVER.

Exactly.

AuraTwilight wrote:

A human isn't asleep if they die but their parents still exist, but whatever, it was just a thought.

I would see Harald as the parent, and the generation program as an egg or embryo or something.

Going by what is stated in both analysis and Truth, and going by Cubia's physical appearance in the two games, I find that to be the more difficult of the two assumptions to make.

AuraTwilight wrote:I see Data Drain blades unfolding. I do not see a Bracelet that just sits there when idle.

Uh, Kite's bracelet never did that. It was only visible when reacting to something. And even then it wasn't ever "really" visible, except to Mia. The only time we actually "see" a Twilight Bracelet is with the various types of Twilight Guardians. These are 100% confirmed to be actual bonafide Bracelets of the Twilight, based on the SIGN script iirc and also the Japanese version name of their data drained form. If these lackeys had them and the Phases didn't, that'd be saying something. You'd have to pull a long, elaborate story out of nowhere to explain that. Aren't you supposed to like Occam's Razor?

_Tri-edge_ wrote:Well, I checked the wiki. It says that although the infinity eight lack bracelets, they still have the ability to Data Drain and sign hack, so in this sense, AT's right on this one.

Their Avatars, via their Bracelets. There's nothing wrong with the text there, actually, though using the wiki to prove something isn't always a good idea. Someone could always just edit it. Back when, I assume, more RPs were going on, people would constantly edit the Adept Rogue Job costs to be lower, it was kinda hilarious... And yeah, I know this has nothing to do with my greater point, I'm just pretty sure I'm right about this, too...

hidora wrote:I mean, it doesn't make any sense giving Xth Forms to all those people (including R:1 characters) when it has been stated that only Adept Rogues can change forms. '-'

In R:2. It's possible R:X adds it. And no, that's not "taking away the only thing special about Adept Rogues" unless they're actually gaining other Jobs, which doesn't seem to be the case. Instead, it's more like the 2020 version of The World has finally caught up with almost every MMO of the late 1990s in letting you change how you look... If you ask me it betrayed the setting more when you couldn't.

Kuukai wrote:Actually, Tabby's nurse hat, historically one of the most shallow character accessories known to humanity, ironically makes more sense to the story than, uh, any other Xth Form I've seen thus far, including to some degree Haseo's...

Oh sure it makes sense for what the fatass wants to do with her pathetic excuse of a life, not gonna deny that, it's just stupid and shallow looking like you said.

Kuukai wrote:

Gemcrim wrote:And of course I hate Tokio beyond all reason... so... there can NEVER be an adequate way to explain this, EVER.

Exactly.

I meant to have those as separate statements so not sure what you're responding to, sorry.

Kuukai wrote:Their Avatars, via their Bracelets. There's nothing wrong with the text there, actually, though using the wiki to prove something isn't always a good idea. Someone could always just edit it. Back when, I assume, more RPs were going on, people would constantly edit the Adept Rogue Job costs to be lower, it was kinda hilarious... And yeah, I know this has nothing to do with my greater point, I'm just pretty sure I'm right about this, too...

What about Kazumi?

Gemcrim wrote:Oh sure it makes sense for what the fatass wants to do with her pathetic excuse of a life, not gonna deny that, it's just stupid and shallow looking like you said.

See, if you hate Tabby and/or moe, I can't help you there, I'm pointing out how weird it is it makes sense...

Gemcrim wrote:I meant to have those as separate statements so not sure what you're responding to, sorry.

Okay, sorry I misread it. So you could like a game with Tokio as the hero?

Ren_Geki wrote:What about Kazumi?

I have no idea, really. It certainly looks completely different. And he can actually use it directly. This is in G.U.+ though, so all bets are off...