dothackers.net

Exotahu wrote:I thought Zelkova WAS Helba.

Yes, he can be Helba, but now there are theorys showing he may be an AI, or even another person, you can either belive it´s true, or not.

And then you see them later wandering around Net Slum as if it was nothing, zing! (happens to the ones Lios deletes I believe) Really, seems easier to break humans...

Ah, but delete them when they're in Net Slum, and there you go! Net Slum is a place that collects deleted data, regardless of being AI or Human. Hell, the AI you mentioned just now was ORIGINALLY a human being that suffered Harald's fate.

After looking at Shinsou Wotan's explanation i thought of this. If Skeith was running around as Sora's pc, then what if that Ai Sora towards the end was a vessel for Skeith. A fail-safe. It might be how CC Corp was able to recover phase data fragments and assemble them.

That would've been noted in the Terminal Disc just like Mia.

i was wondering about Skeith's staff. Its a weapon that belongs to Skeith, yet clearly stands as a seperate artifact. You don't see the other epitaphs with weapons. i wonder if that weapon serves as a key or something.

It's like the original Lost Weapon, you could say.

Yes, he can be Helba, but now there are theorys showing he may be an AI, or even another person, you can either belive it´s true, or not.

I vote AI, due to his comment on Net Slum being his "Home Town."

Dragoon2044 wrote:there are so many ways it can go. Sora can be Haseo, Sora can be Haseo's friend, or they could simply have nothing to do with each other. In the end it is all up to Bandai/Namco.

Sora and Haseo have at the very least "met" in terms of Sora being in Skeith when Skeith DDed Haseo. The name and age connection makes it very likely that they're either friends or the same person, and going by that, as I outlined above, Haseo being the same person wins in terms of likelihood. If you even forget the name and age thing, it's still pretty likely that Haseo is Sora, just based on gender, being in a coma, and being a one-in-a-million Skeith Chosen One. You can say there were a couple other unaccounted victims, and one of them just happened to be like Sora in all these ways and no one ever heard about him, but that sounds even dumber than Sora just losing his memory. Memory loss, being confirmed, is currently my threshold for what to expect from the .hack creators. This dumb and no dumber.

AuraTwilight wrote:Ah, but delete them when they're in Net Slum, and there you go!

There's no proof for that assumption, and the fundamental nature of data in The World is that it can always be rebuilt. Mia didn't come back together in Net Slum, and neither did the Avatars, presumably. Net Slum is just a place for them to hang out...

AuraTwilight wrote:Net Slum is a place that collects deleted data, regardless of being AI or Human. Hell, the AI you mentioned just now was ORIGINALLY a human being that suffered Harald's fate.

The fact that the data makes it there just illustrates that deletion means nothing. Oh yeah, I forgot, so it's not the best example, but it does go along with data not really being discriminated against, anything can be a Vagrant AI... I still see no reason to think that data from humans is "more stable", those AIs were like, crazy...

Their are many ways Sora can be Haseo and he can't be Haseo we just need to find some thing that proves that he is and stick with that.

For example:Haseo's third form hair looks exactly like Sora's hair in R:1.
And it has been noted on the first page that when he was DD'D he lost all his memories of being DD'D after he woke up from the coma.

I've never paid attention to SIGN so I wouldn't know abou thta promise thing he made to Tsukasa.

Off topic:Man you guys have been going at it.
Me and a friend had a little Yu-gi-oh- dual and he used AT and Kuukai at the same time. lol

There's no proof for that assumption, and the fundamental nature of data in The World is that it can always be rebuilt. Mia didn't come back together in Net Slum, and neither did the Avatars, presumably. Net Slum is just a place for them to hang out...

Lol Lycoris's Udeden cameo.

Lol Failed RA Plan.

Lol Corbenic's System Restore.

You were saying?

The fact that the data makes it there just illustrates that deletion means nothing. Oh yeah, I forgot, so it's not the best example, but it does go along with data not really being discriminated against, anything can be a Vagrant AI... I still see no reason to think that data from humans is "more stable", those AIs were like, crazy...

I'm not saying it is more "Stable", just more "vulnerable." They may be able to reconstruct themselves and escape, but the possibility is there. It's much easier to delete something than to change it's metaphysical location and THEN delete it. While both are capable of surviving the ordeal, AI's require that many less steps to assault.

So much to read La! But, I never knew it was so rare for 2 people to be close in age. Maybe the creator wanted them to be close in age. Maybe he wanted to make people to think the way you all are doing right now. Only GOD knows the truth, but I still feel that Sora isn't Haseo. I don't see how almost everyone that got DDed forgot everything about what happened to them and yet they still end up playing the game. I think it would be stupid to have the same characters involved in the same plot....unless they had been given a second chance to finish what they started. But, why bother? You say that this "Official Book" says that Kuhn "is" Komonari which is "Sieg" but it doesn't say anything about Sora being Haseo? Or even Elk being endurance? I myself would believe Elk being Endurence more since the clues are so obvious compared to the other 2 theories. Until I see this "Official Book" I don't believe anything anyone has to say La. I'm still waiting on a way to see this "Official Book" AT La.

DarkChaos wrote:Until I see this "Official Book" I don't believe anything anyone has to say La.

Then why are you here? >.>

Vahn Staffear wrote:Off topic:Man you guys have been going at it.
Me and a friend had a little Yu-gi-oh- dual and he used AT and Kuukai at the same time. lol

I saw that, that was funny.

AuraTwilight wrote:Lol Lycoris's Udeden cameo.

Lol Failed RA Plan.

Lol Corbenic's System Restore.

You were saying?

...that AIs are just as permanent if not moreso than humans transferred into The World. I fail to see how any of those things do anything but support that claim... Lycoris survived the course of years. The RA plan's attempt to restore Aura failed for whatever reason, but it succeeded in completely retrieving destroyed AIs from the sea of data. Corbenik's "Rebirth" power doesn't seem to have very much to do with Vagrant AIs, and we don't know what's up with AIDA, but it does show that the worst thing that can happen to an AI, completely returning to the sea of data, can also happen to a human. How were you trying to use these examples to show that originally-human-AIs are more stable? Or were you trying to say something about Net Slum? 'cause I don't see it. Wasn't one of the Phases like, beaten in Net Slum? They were all retrieved, I don't think being destroyed in Net Slum affected anything. That was just a side point anyway, my main point is that Sora isn't particularly less memory-loss-prone than Mia.

AuraTwilight wrote:I'm not saying it is more "Stable", just more "vulnerable." They may be able to reconstruct themselves and escape, but the possibility is there. It's much easier to delete something than to change it's metaphysical location and THEN delete it. While both are capable of surviving the ordeal, AI's require that many less steps to assault.

Sora's already there. Done. So they're equal then, right? What are we arguing about? The context is Sora.

DarkChaos wrote:So much to read La! But, I never knew it was so rare for 2 people to be close in age. Maybe the creator wanted them to be close in age. Maybe he wanted to make people to think the way you all are doing right now. Only GOD knows the truth, but I still feel that Sora isn't Haseo. I don't see how almost everyone that got DDed forgot everything about what happened to them and yet they still end up playing the game. I think it would be stupid to have the same characters involved in the same plot....unless they had been given a second chance to finish what they started. But, why bother? You say that this "Official Book" says that Kuhn "is" Komonari which is "Sieg" but it doesn't say anything about Sora being Haseo? Or even Elk being endurance? I myself would believe Elk being Endurence more since the clues are so obvious compared to the other 2 theories. Until I see this "Official Book" I don't believe anything anyone has to say La. I'm still waiting on a way to see this "Official Book" AT La.

It might say Elk=Endrance, it's hard to confirm secondhand. I know it does say some things I haven't been able to confirm yet. You can buy the book here if you want to read it:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-langu ... ge=en%5FJP

It's not rare for two people to be 10, I never said that...

Taiga wrote:

DarkChaos wrote:Until I see this "Official Book" I don't believe anything anyone has to say La.

Then why are you here? >.>

I'm here for the same reason that everyone else is here for. To gain information that may be hard to find elsewhere.

Now though I feel a need to debunk some things.

...that AIs are just as permanent if not moreso than humans transferred into The World. I fail to see how any of those things do anything but support that claim... Lycoris survived the course of years. The RA plan's attempt to restore Aura failed for whatever reason, but it succeeded in completely retrieving destroyed AIs from the sea of data. Corbenik's "Rebirth" power doesn't seem to have very much to do with Vagrant AIs, and we don't know what's up with AIDA, but it does show that the worst thing that can happen to an AI, completely returning to the sea of data, can also happen to a human. How were you trying to use these examples to show that originally-human-AIs are more stable? Or were you trying to say something about Net Slum? 'cause I don't see it. Wasn't one of the Phases like, beaten in Net Slum? They were all retrieved, I don't think being destroyed in Net Slum affected anything. That was just a side point anyway, my main point is that Sora isn't particularly less memory-loss-prone than Mia.

Again, my point is that the AI's are easier to send to that sea of data, not that they suffered a worse fate. But I must ask. When did the failed RA Plan retrieve any destroyed AI's? Any at all?

AuraTwilight wrote:Again, my point is that the AI's are easier to send to that sea of data, not that they suffered a worse fate.

But if that is only true because data drain is first required, it's totally inapplicable to Sora.

AuraTwilight wrote:But I must ask. When did the failed RA Plan retrieve any destroyed AI's? Any at all?

Umm, Magus, Macha, Tarvos, to name a few. They're AIs, not really PCs/Vagrant AIs, but they do help the case for AI data coming back and don't in any way hurt it.

AuraTwilight wrote:

...that AIs are just as permanent if not moreso than humans transferred into The World. I fail to see how any of those things do anything but support that claim... Lycoris survived the course of years. The RA plan's attempt to restore Aura failed for whatever reason, but it succeeded in completely retrieving destroyed AIs from the sea of data. Corbenik's "Rebirth" power doesn't seem to have very much to do with Vagrant AIs, and we don't know what's up with AIDA, but it does show that the worst thing that can happen to an AI, completely returning to the sea of data, can also happen to a human. How were you trying to use these examples to show that originally-human-AIs are more stable? Or were you trying to say something about Net Slum? 'cause I don't see it. Wasn't one of the Phases like, beaten in Net Slum? They were all retrieved, I don't think being destroyed in Net Slum affected anything. That was just a side point anyway, my main point is that Sora isn't particularly less memory-loss-prone than Mia.

Again, my point is that the AI's are easier to send to that sea of data, not that they suffered a worse fate. But I must ask. When did the failed RA Plan retrieve any destroyed AI's? Any at all?

Phases... >.> although I'm not sure if they count for AI's
EDIT:
Darn you Kuukai, you beat me to it.

Kuukai wrote:

Vahn Staffear wrote:Off topic:Man you guys have been going at it.
Me and a friend had a little Yu-gi-oh- dual and he used AT and Kuukai at the same time. lol

I saw that, that was funny.

Off Topic: Yeah I lost.v.v

On Topic: I don't think phases count as AI's do they?

Vahn Staffear wrote:On Topic: I don't think phases count as AI's do they?

I do. They're the independent elements of Morganna, who is herself an AI. Gorre is obviously intelligent, and Macha formed the basis for Mia. Skeith even chats with Haseo in Vol.3. In all these cases they have much more coherent identities than most Vagrant AIs. You could say Skeith picked up personality from Sora or something, but that argument is meaningless since Skeith was clearly recovered by the RA team with that data, qualifying as an AI and proving my point.

So in conclusion Morganna used the phases in the first place to gather emotions to find human weekness or something.

Vahn Staffear wrote:So in conclusion Morganna used the phases in the first place to gather emotions to find human weekness or something.

Oh God, no!
Looks like we have another victim of the ".hack//Liminality-itis"!
The junk on .hack//Liminality Vol. 4 is proven to be non-canon.

Taiga wrote:

Vahn Staffear wrote:So in conclusion Morganna used the phases in the first place to gather emotions to find human weekness or something.

Oh God, no!
Looks like we have another victim of the ".hack//Liminality-itis"!
The junk on .hack//Liminality Vol. 4 is proven to be non-canon.

No I never played IMOQ nor did I look at the OVA's.
I pieced that little conclusion based on what I've heard.

Vahn Staffear wrote:

Taiga wrote:

Vahn Staffear wrote:So in conclusion Morganna used the phases in the first place to gather emotions to find human weekness or something.

Oh God, no!
Looks like we have another victim of the ".hack//Liminality-itis"!
The junk on .hack//Liminality Vol. 4 is proven to be non-canon.

No I never played IMOQ nor did I look at the OVA's.
I pieced that little conclusion based on what I've heard.

:O You've been infected...

The phases are a part of her, she made them from her own data so that she'd have a "body", more or less. They weren't already there, except as ideas in the Epitaph.

Umm, Magus, Macha, Tarvos, to name a few. They're AIs, not really PCs/Vagrant AIs, but they do help the case for AI data coming back and don't in any way hurt it.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the aftereffects of the RA Plan, where Za Warudo is near destroyed and some AI's pop up >.>;