dothackers.net

Does that mean Skeith is running around yelling things like "boing!" and such all the time? Cause you all know that'd be pretty hillarious.

Couldn't it also be possible, when Sora was data drain, his pc body was stored inside of the system? (Such as in Tsukasa's case, see CASTLE, when Tsukasa was data drained the second time aka GUARDIAN, his memories became crippled.)

Whos to say Sora's memories were kept inside of the AI Sora, and Sora simply returned with his memories up to SIGN?
Remember, Sora had NO IDEA who Skeith was, all he knew was, he was data drained by a strange monster, it wasn't untill the end of Infection when we even first learned his name.

it can't be Sora because They said that Sora turned down an offer to be apart of the GU project. Sora would have memory of being an unreturner and there is no way haseo could be him. Also where are those scans from, they don't seem to be from the character fan book thats for sure

I still dont believe Haseo being Sora.

I believe the fact Kuhn was Sieg and former bf of Mai Minase.

I dont believe Zelkova is Helba, but probably believe that he was probably Bith the Black

Mia's memories of Elk were still intact right before she asploded, despite all but one of the phases that got destroyed being destroyed. I doubt you could blame it on Tarvos's destruction, since that didn't really affect very much if I remember correctly.

Regardless, an AI's mind is more vulnerable than a human's.

Ginkan and seemingly Kuhn both had permanent memory loss, and no one has been stuck in The World for nearly as long and under nearly as strange circumstances as Sora.

Ginkan recovered his memory shortly after, and even then it was only short term memory loss. I would assume the same with Kuhn.

True. That's a valid point. Though he chose the name "Haseo", which was validated in an interview as a plot point, and he is very suspicious about the origin of it. He is also the same age that Sora would be. This likely means he either is Sora, or has some connection to him. If he has some connection, he can't be a sibling as Haseo has none, so he's an irl or online friend. If he's an irl friend, he went into a coma after Sora did, once Skeith was active, presumably trying to figure out what happened to him. This would probably involve his friend attacking him, which puts the "memorability" considerably higher than Sora saving some random girl he doesn't know. This also means that he started playing either before or during SIGN, and we never see this guy with Sora, though that could mean nothing. If he was an online friend, the story is more or less the same, but we'd probably have seen him. Also, they'd know each other from outside The World, like Sakaki and Atoli, since Haseo empirically really doesn't remember a single thing about the game.

These are small doubts, but they add up. I'd generously put Haseo being a friend at 45% likelihood, and him being Sora at 55%.

Who said he looked like Sora when he was attacked? For all Haseo knew, Skeith was an ordinary monster that kicked his ass, and the coma might've been for a whole different reason. Or maybe he forgot about it because he wasn't in a coma for that long.

When Haseo's PC and spirit are damaged by Ovan's "Rebirth" ability and the truth he's revealed, he finds himself in a dark room inside his PC, and Skeith confronts him directly, in the form of a white version of Haseo with a more Sora-like way of speaking.

For all we know, Phases/Avatars absorb personality traits of those they bond with. And regardless of whether or not Sora and Haseo are connected, Sora was Skeith's original Epitaph User.

Does that mean Skeith is running around yelling things like "boing!" and such all the time? Cause you all know that'd be pretty hillarious.

Not quite. But when he's talking to Haseo he's all "You're gonna give up THIS easily? How Laaaaaaaame."

Couldn't it also be possible, when Sora was data drain, his pc body was stored inside of the system? (Such as in Tsukasa's case, see CASTLE, when Tsukasa was data drained the second time aka GUARDIAN, his memories became crippled.)

Well, he was stuck in Skeith's Wand.

Whos to say Sora's memories were kept inside of the AI Sora, and Sora simply returned with his memories up to SIGN?

That doesn't explain Sora's and Tsukasa's intact memories.

it can't be Sora because They said that Sora turned down an offer to be apart of the GU project.

No, it said he cancelled his account, and that Project GU was unable to contact him.

I dont believe Zelkova is Helba, but probably believe that he was probably Bith the Black

Bith the Black is even less likely than Helba. ¬_¬

I think that Zelkova is somehow related, by blood, to helba in some way...[/quote]

Vlaidmare wrote:I think that Zelkova is somehow related, by blood, to helba in some way...

Well, if Zelkova IS Helba than this connection is more than aproved, but if he is an AI, then he isn´t, and I haven´t heard she got a brother.
*goes to .Hack//Wiki...*

FlameSage wrote:Whos to say Sora's memories were kept inside of the AI Sora, and Sora simply returned with his memories up to SIGN?
Remember, Sora had NO IDEA who Skeith was, all he knew was, he was data drained by a strange monster, it wasn't untill the end of Infection when we even first learned his name.

That wouldn't explain Haseo not knowing so much, unless he's lying.

AuraTwilight wrote:Regardless, an AI's mind is more vulnerable than a human's.

What are you basing that on? All the Vagrant AIs have pretty much the same personalities in G.U., and remember Wiseman. Elk sure as heck doesn't.

AuraTwilight wrote:Ginkan recovered his memory shortly after, and even then it was only short term memory loss. I would assume the same with Kuhn.

Ginkan recovered his consciousness, but I don't think they said he fully regained his memory of the event. Kuhn doesn't recognize Balmung and he hasn't heard of the .hackers.

AuraTwilight wrote:Who said he looked like Sora when he was attacked? For all Haseo knew, Skeith was an ordinary monster that kicked his ass, and the coma might've been for a whole different reason.

From what I gather he appeared as Sora for about half of the victims we know of, so I guess this part is a draw...

AuraTwilight wrote:Or maybe he forgot about it because he wasn't in a coma for that long.

The shorter it was, the more likely he'd be in ZERO or the first game. Either way, it lasted at least long as Orca's minus less than a day. Still kinda a long coma... No one else comatose for that amount of time seemed to shrug it off so easily and forget the whole ordeal. Not remembering because your mind was turned inside out still seems more likely than not remembering because your coma was as "short" as Orca's.

Also, if his friend was still around and playing and Haseo didn't think it was such a big deal, why wouldn't he continue playing The World? Why wouldn't his friend remind him that he had been playing? This right here makes it more like 60/40...

AuraTwilight wrote:For all we know, Phases/Avatars absorb personality traits of those they bond with. And regardless of whether or not Sora and Haseo are connected, Sora was Skeith's original Epitaph User.

More like Skeith was Sora's Player User.

AuraTwilight wrote:Not quite. But when he's talking to Haseo he's all "You're gonna give up THIS easily? How Laaaaaaaame."

I believe he makes some sound effects. And his original "I've- found- you!", reiterated in that scene, is pretty Sora-like...

What are you basing that on? All the Vagrant AIs have pretty much the same personalities in G.U., and remember Wiseman. Elk sure as heck doesn't.

So what? That just means the Vagrant AI's have longer memory, but their memory is easier to destroy by virtue of the fact that they're deletable data, as opposed to humans, which are implied in the series to have a form of consciousness not bound by it's medium. (I'm relunctant to say a soul.)

Ginkan recovered his consciousness, but I don't think they said he fully regained his memory of the event. Kuhn doesn't recognize Balmung and he hasn't heard of the .hackers.

I'm pretty sure they said Ginkan recovered his memories. Otherwise how would he report the Guardian to Subaru? Furthermore, Kuhn never nessessarily had to have heard of the .hackers, since he was unconscious during that time, and frankly, lots of people who weren't comatosed don't remember or recognize Balmung. I don't blame them, since he's a zombie and almost barely beyond recognition.

From what I gather he appeared as Sora for about half of the victims we know of, so I guess this part is a draw...

In the .hack//Zero era, yes.

The shorter it was, the more likely he'd be in ZERO or the first game. Either way, it lasted at least long as Orca's minus less than a day. Still kinda a long coma... No one else comatose for that amount of time seemed to shrug it off so easily and forget the whole ordeal. Not remembering because your mind was turned inside out still seems more likely than not remembering because your coma was as "short" as Orca's.

Good point. Haseo could just be well adjusted or something. He does seem to be the type of person to stop caring about something once it's over and done with (not counting emotionally invested incidents like Shino's coma.)

Also, if his friend was still around and playing and Haseo didn't think it was such a big deal, why wouldn't he continue playing The World? Why wouldn't his friend remind him that he had been playing? This right here makes it more like 60/40...

Because his "Friend" could've been Sora, or basically quit playing. Who said he friend kept playing Za Warudo after he woke up?

More like Skeith was Sora's Player User.

Well yea, but the only criteria for being an Epitaph User is that your mind is bonded to a Phase. Not nessessarily having control over it.

I believe he makes some sound effects. And his original "I've- found- you!", reiterated in that scene, is pretty Sora-like...

Well yea. I wasn't denying the fact that he made any sound effects. Just that he didn't throw them all over the place like it was going out of style.

AuraTwilight wrote:So what? That just means the Vagrant AI's have longer memory, but their memory is easier to destroy by virtue of the fact that they're deletable data, as opposed to humans, which are implied in the series to have a form of consciousness not bound by it's medium. (I'm relunctant to say a soul.)

No, they're pretty much all the same. Aura and Ovan are both sleeping in The World's "sea of data", and both of them can really only come back when brought forth by strong will... There might be a way to save Ovan, like they recovered the Phases, ect., but at this point the number of successes they've had on obliterated AIs is greater than the number of successes they've had on obliterated PCs (though that's really only Ovan in that category).

AuraTwilight wrote:I'm pretty sure they said Ginkan recovered his memories. Otherwise how would he report the Guardian to Subaru? Furthermore, Kuhn never nessessarily had to have heard of the .hackers, since he was unconscious during that time, and frankly, lots of people who weren't comatosed don't remember or recognize Balmung. I don't blame them, since he's a zombie and almost barely beyond recognition.

Kuhn fought him. The targeter says "Balmung". He talked about this guy all the time. Seriously, something wrong here.

AuraTwilight wrote:In the .hack//Zero era, yes.

Didn't Shinsou Wotan suggest he did in Liminality too?

AuraTwilight wrote:Good point. Haseo could just be well adjusted or something. He does seem to be the type of person to stop caring about something once it's over and done with (not counting emotionally invested incidents like Shino's coma.)...
....Because his "Friend" could've been Sora, or basically quit playing. Who said he friend kept playing Za Warudo after he woke up?

No, see a few posts back, we've established in this line of reasoning that his friend is Sora. Going by the scenes in Unison and Udeden and what have you, Sora is still playing, so you'd think Haseo would have kept playing too. Unless the Sora in those things isn't Sora, in which case the Sora=Haseo probablity still goes up. And, as you just said, quiting for no reason at all when his friend is still playing and that coma was a flesh wound isn't very Haseo-like.

AuraTwilight wrote:Well yea, but the only criteria for being an Epitaph User is that your mind is bonded to a Phase. Not nessessarily having control over it.

That's very true, though in G.U. they have no power over you if you don't give in to your emotions.

Kuukai wrote:

AuraTwilight wrote:In the .hack//Zero era, yes.

Didn't Shinsou Wotan suggest he did in Liminality too?

Yes, I did.
Here.

No, they're pretty much all the same. Aura and Ovan are both sleeping in The World's "sea of data", and both of them can really only come back when brought forth by strong will... There might be a way to save Ovan, like they recovered the Phases, ect., but at this point the number of successes they've had on obliterated AIs is greater than the number of successes they've had on obliterated PCs (though that's really only Ovan in that category).

Yes, I know. But the fact that a human can retreat beyond the game to their real bodies does leave the fact that AI's are more vulnerable to memories being deleted.

Kuhn fought him. The targeter says "Balmung". He talked about this guy all the time. Seriously, something wrong here.

Maybe he just didn't care, since it wasn't the actual player behind him?

Didn't Shinsou Wotan suggest he did in Liminality too?

I remember reading that, in hindsight. But that doesn't change the fact that not ALL of his victims were fought in Skeith form, and there's no guarantee that Haseo would recognize Sora, since he might not have been with Sora when he was playing and might never have seen his online PC.

No, see a few posts back, we've established in this line of reasoning that his friend is Sora. Going by the scenes in Unison and Udeden and what have you, Sora is still playing, so you'd think Haseo would have kept playing too. Unless the Sora in those things isn't Sora, in which case the Sora=Haseo probablity still goes up. And, as you just said, quiting for no reason at all when his friend is still playing and that coma was a flesh wound isn't very Haseo-like.

Gah, now I remember. Sorry, not up to my usual frame of mind, I've got a cold. Yes, that's true. It's still possible that Haseo only played the one time, probably under a PC he only used once or twice or so, and didn't play afterwards. Remember the infamous line. "My friend told me Za Warudo was fun."

That's very true, though in G.U. they have no power over you if you don't give in to your emotions.

Correct, but it's still very different circumstances. Sora's consciousness was dragged into the game and sealed in Skeith's Wand. While with Haseo, he's still active outside of the game and Skeith is in a "sleeping" state until Haseo awakens him.

AuraTwilight wrote:Yes, I know. But the fact that a human can retreat beyond the game to their real bodies does leave the fact that AI's are more vulnerable to memories being deleted.

And AIs can retreat to anywhere on the network. This is why AIDA were almost impossible to destroy.

AuraTwilight wrote:Maybe he just didn't care, since it wasn't the actual player behind him?

Maybe, but it's very strange that there was no reaction.

AuraTwilight wrote:I remember reading that, in hindsight. But that doesn't change the fact that not ALL of his victims were fought in Skeith form, and there's no guarantee that Haseo would recognize Sora, since he might not have been with Sora when he was playing and might never have seen his online PC.

In that case he joined the game after his friend fell into a coma. It's at least slightly more likely that Sora was in control, and if that were the case one might recognize the other by name or something.

AuraTwilight wrote:Gah, now I remember. Sorry, not up to my usual frame of mind, I've got a cold. Yes, that's true. It's still possible that Haseo only played the one time, probably under a PC he only used once or twice or so, and didn't play afterwards. Remember the infamous line. "My friend told me Za Warudo was fun."

We're pretty even, I'm just getting over a cold...

He also felt a nostalgic feeling, which might imply he played long enough to get used to the game in some way. Either way, I doubt he'd give up after being in a coma, not knowing why, and knowing it's linked to The World. Heck, since your entire assumption is based on Sora not forgetting anything, his friend would be able to tell him everything that happened. This clearly hasn't happened to Haseo.

And AIs can retreat to anywhere on the network. This is why AIDA were almost impossible to destroy.

However, anywhere in the Network can still be effect from the vintage point of Za Warudo, as demonstrated by Aura's management of the network, Cubia's damage to the internet, and Corbenic's System Restore.

He also felt a nostalgic feeling, which might imply he played long enough to get used to the game in some way. Either way, I doubt he'd give up after being in a coma, not knowing why, and knowing it's linked to The World. Heck, since your entire assumption is based on Sora not forgetting anything, his friend would be able to tell him everything that happened. This clearly hasn't happened to Haseo.

That's true, but at the same time it's possible Haseo didn't think much of it. Either that or Haseo and Sora have no relation other than being Skeith Epitaph Users, and the name connection is a red herring or just emphasis on their Skeith connections. There's loads of possiblities, each of them plausible.

AuraTwilight wrote:However, anywhere in the Network can still be effect from the vintage point of Za Warudo, as demonstrated by Aura's management of the network, Cubia's damage to the internet, and Corbenic's System Restore.

But only the latter, the hardest to acheive, can destroy a resourceful AI. It also did the equivalent to the user. Just accept that there's no evidence Humans > AI in this respect. :P

AuraTwilight wrote:That's true, but at the same time it's possible Haseo didn't think much of it. Either that or Haseo and Sora have no relation other than being Skeith Epitaph Users, and the name connection is a red herring or just emphasis on their Skeith connections. There's loads of possiblities, each of them plausible.

Still, if they knew each other it's extremely likely he would know what happened. The name thing is clearly not a red herring. They mentioned in the same interview that they revealed the Forest of Pain was 100 areas that there was significance to his choosing that name. He refuses on two separate occasions to explain it. What other possibilities are there? I tried to cover what I could think of.

But only the latter, the hardest to acheive, can destroy a resourceful AI. It also did the equivalent to the user. Just accept that there's no evidence Humans > AI in this respect.

Not all AI's are resourceful though. Hell, some of them can be killed by a delete button. Frankly, Aura is the only AI I'd place on equal level of a human by virtue of the fact that she's the Ultimate AI, designed to be a digital human in every respect. (Though other AI's are humanlike, they do seem to have some sort of flaw, mental faculties or otherwise.)

Still, if they knew each other it's extremely likely he would know what happened. The name thing is clearly not a red herring. They mentioned in the same interview that they revealed the Forest of Pain was 100 areas that there was significance to his choosing that name. He refuses on two separate occasions to explain it. What other possibilities are there? I tried to cover what I could think of.

That's true, but it doesn't prove he's Sora, and if Sora was his friend, he doesn't nessessarily have to know what you say he does. "Dude, Sora, what happened?" "None of your business!"

AuraTwilight wrote:Not all AI's are resourceful though. Hell, some of them can be killed by a delete button.

And then you see them later wandering around Net Slum as if it was nothing, zing! (happens to the ones Lios deletes I believe) Really, seems easier to break humans...

AuraTwilight wrote:Frankly, Aura is the only AI I'd place on equal level of a human by virtue of the fact that she's the Ultimate AI, designed to be a digital human in every respect. (Though other AI's are humanlike, they do seem to have some sort of flaw, mental faculties or otherwise.)

The one and only criterion we care about right now is permanence. It's just as hard to kill/corrupt Vagrant AIs as humans, if not harder.

AuraTwilight wrote:That's true, but it doesn't prove he's Sora, and if Sora was his friend, he doesn't nessessarily have to know what you say he does. "Dude, Sora, what happened?" "None of your business!"

I'm not trying to prove he's Sora. You can't do it with the information given. I'm just trying to show that the odds of him being Sora are about 80%. And yes, Sora might not have told him, but then the probability of him quitting would probably drop, wouldn't it? Just having the other friend who was also in a coma from playing the game would make the entire incident surrounding his amnesia a bit too complicated to forget.

After looking at Shinsou Wotan's explanation i thought of this. If Skeith was running around as Sora's pc, then what if that Ai Sora towards the end was a vessel for Skeith. A fail-safe. It might be how CC Corp was able to recover phase data fragments and assemble them.

i was wondering about Skeith's staff. Its a weapon that belongs to Skeith, yet clearly stands as a seperate artifact. You don't see the other epitaphs with weapons. i wonder if that weapon serves as a key or something.

Sora quit playing for a time. A friend told Haseo that the world used to be fun. You think he might have returned? its unlikely but would it be possible that friend is the Sora ai? it is to say Haseo's player were to see his old pc (Sora) as a friend. Just as other players might have seen thier online characters as people. (that might be part of the mentality of why pk'ing so looked down upon). Jun described the last day at Mac Anu. People were crying and saying goodbye. It was as if everyone (the pcs) were about to experience death all at once, not just the Ais. So in that sense you might say that the player behind Haseo was influenced by Sora (pc) in such a way (memories?) that he logged into the world once again.

there are so many ways it can go. Sora can be Haseo, Sora can be Haseo's friend, or they could simply have nothing to do with each other. In the end it is all up to Bandai/Namco.

Vlaidmare wrote:I think that Zelkova is somehow related, by blood, to helba in some way...

[/quote]

can you say forbbidden love childe of leos and helba <.<

I thought Zelkova WAS Helba.