.hack//SIGN and .hack//ROOTS emotional death poll [Spoilers]

HaseoDeath · Post by **HaseoDeath** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:18 am

nice point but.. those images seem a bit big, they're altering my viewing of this post ::Shrugs::

Well seems Phyllo is winning. I guess death of real life character beats death of AI...

Although, what beats character of the real life world dying is death of a real person... Phyllo's death just reminding me of which... R.I.P. Mako [Voice actor]

Umbra · Post by **Umbra** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:26 am

Its certainly tricky...

On one hand, Macha was killed in SIGN rather than just dying. On the other hand, she was an AI and was reborn in the games.

On one hand, Phyllo died in real life and can't be reborn. On the other hand, he wasn't killed and appeared to have come to terms with it.

I do agree with AT's point, one of the themes of .hack, and especially so with SIGN and the original games, is that there is no boundary between natural and artificial intelligence. While Macha was an AI, she was as intelligent as any human and knew what was about to happen to her, I also have no problem with believing that her death was painful.

I'm going to say Macha, as she gave herself up for a greater cause and her death resulted in a lot of pain. She was also young in comparison to Phyllo and...I prefer Macha over Phyllo anyway.

HaseoDeath · Post by **HaseoDeath** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:16 am

It's weird... I felt for Maha when she sacrificed herself to stop the Dawn Wanderers but then Mia came into existance and I never really liked her. She was like some weird purple cabbit more then a cat. The end of Macha the Phase was sad, but mainly due to the heart-ache Elk suffered more then Mia fading away. But then she reformed into Maha in the 15 floor dungeon and I was like "MAHA?... no.. wait for me.." and then bang, a fight with the "Trembling Temptress" creature and Maha turns into Mia again... I was like "Stupid Mia.."

I felt for Maha because, she was cute and I felt bad for her. Torn between loyalty of Morganna and the feelings toward Tsukasa for his kindness even after the betrayel.

Then we have the whole terminal Disk saying she was totally killed/earsed.. whatever.. I felt bad, but wasn't really effected because, well.. Maha's been back and forth on death and rebirth to the point it got old.

But then comes Phyllo, the wise old man with playful pets that like messing with his computer cords. A character that's good at giving sage advice and looks more like a Tanuki then a cat lol. I cried when I learned what happened, but didn't at the scene where Touta learns. mainly because I didn't get what was being said exactly..

Either way, I'd say Maha and Phyllo are equal for different reasons.. but Phyllo a bit more..

Sayonara Phyllo.... and Thank you.

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:57 am

The fact that he hid it from everyone and that he had already come to terms with it actually has a bigger impact on me than a sudden death of an AI character.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:00 am

Dengar makes a good point. While Maha's character simply evolves over the course of the story, you just see Phyllo as some Roots equivelent of Bear or something, and then we learn he died from something he's been dealing with since the first episode of Roots (Funny how Haseo pretty much logs in for the first time the very day Phyllo is diagnosed. What awful luck.) and his character is totally blown open.

Shinsou Wotan · Post by **Shinsou Wotan** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:11 pm

HaseoDeath wrote:Phyllo: "Why?"
Ovan: "I seem to have the same problem as you."

I wonder... was that his way of saying "Like you, I too have something inside me that's damaging/corrupting me."
speaking of Ovan's secret arm... and Phyllo's cancer.

A more accurate translation of Ovan's line there would be "My problem is the same sort as yours". I'd say your interpretation is correct.

Akuta · Post by **Akuta** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:39 pm

VERY good point. We know he IS corrupted after all.

Prydefalcn · Post by **Prydefalcn** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:10 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:That's racist. AI's, in the .hack universe, are as much people as we are. You can say they're just 1's and 0's, but humans are just atomic particles. In the eyes of God, Human and AI are equal.

More specifically, Maha did not exist outside of "The World". And Maha wasn't even a human being, so I am not sure how that would be racist...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:28 pm

More specifically, Maha did not exist outside of "The World". And Maha wasn't even a human being, so I am not sure how that would be racist...

Because AI's are practically a race in the .hack universe. They may not have a physical body, but they're as human as you and I are. They feel, they hope, they dream, they fear, they think, they love, etc.

To not see AI's as equals to human beings, you'd be making the same mistake as Nazi's and KKK members.

Prydefalcn · Post by **Prydefalcn** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:53 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:To not see AI's as equals to human beings, you'd be making the same mistake as Nazi's and KKK members.

You lost me there.

Umbra · Post by **Umbra** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:22 am

The Nazis believed Jews to be inferior, the KKK believe black people are inferior. Both feel that these 'inferior' people are not really people at all.

What AuraTwilight is saying is that you are saying the AI in .hack are inferior to humans when the whole point of the story is that they are our equals. I wouldn't go as far as to say it was racist, but the story seems to be set around the idea that AI can have feelings and they want you to feel for the AI.

HaseoDeath · Post by **HaseoDeath** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:26 am

The main point is... in the .hack universe, AIs are equal to humans because that's the whole POINT of .hack

I mean, hate to say it but if you don't think an AI is equal to a human, then you really haven't been watching or paying attention to .hack, it's the main plot for crying out loud.

People: "AIs aren't people."
Harold: "So.. I wasted my life?"
People: "Yep, Aura's just 1s and 0s, not real, not your daughter."

::Harold kills himself with a shrug::

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:01 am

Uh, but Harald himself is an AI now too.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:37 pm

and for the majority of SIGN, so was Tsukasa, and no one doubts he was a person. Is his body the only thing that makes him more human than the other AI's, even when he's not using it?

OlinMercury · Post by **OlinMercury** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:21 pm

While I don't see A.I. as inferior by any means, we have to consider what 'life' or 'existence' actually is.
If you see it as mere consciousness and being able to interpret as well as react to signals/feelings that consciousness recieves, A.I. can definitely be considered life.
However, if you believe life or existence to be a result of being within your body and that you cannot live or be conscious without a shell of some sort, it would make sense for you to believe that A.I. cannot be alive.
Unfortunately, since we can barely even be aware of our own existence, it's rather difficult to know which of these circumstances is true and which is false...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:46 pm

The fact that Aura describes AI's as life is all I need. Who else on the subject of AI's can possibly be more credible?

Dot-Hack-Rocks · Post by **Dot-Hack-Rocks** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:50 pm

I wish there was a option
for "Neither" because I didn't
find one that badly dramatizing
me. Macha just came back to
life as the cat on Endurance's shoulder.
and I saw the other guy die sooner of later.
It was quite obvious.

Dragoon2044 · Post by **Dragoon2044** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:02 pm

yeah. or else phyllo will make you read the manual.

Marioshinobi · Post by **Marioshinobi** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:03 pm

Are you reading the manual yet!?

I loved how he moved so close to Haseo on that scene XD

I'll..read it later..

And yah..Mia's sudden reappearence only shows the kitty cannot be beaten..no matter how many Revisions there are XD

Prydefalcn · Post by **Prydefalcn** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:26 pm

Or maybe I simply did not sympathize at all with Maha. I may as well fault it to a poorly-implemented character.

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.hack//SIGN and .hack//ROOTS emotional death poll [Spoilers]

Which caused you emotional pain and or to cry more?