dothackers.net

Haha, sorry that term never goes right into english, "non action" in a nutshell is "not to go against the will of nature and the world, to carry with you the spirit of the people" this involves helping them physicially as well as mentally. You do not know these people, but you see they are working on a grand project "in ancient times a wandering Sage may have stopped and helped exiled folk build a new home". The work of a school, or a hospital, anything just to help the people, why? Because it is the right thing to do. Many ancient Sages were healers as well, they often stopped a tvillages and doctored the people for no charge. Their techniquess were amazing and even are used today. The Sage influences only from afar when the people notice his accomplishments he will give the credit to the people he sought to help. "When the grand work is done, the Sage departs, the people will say they have completed it."

The selfless issue is not targeted at you it is targeted at Akujiki, he says over and over again, he is the selfless, he is the light, he strives to help those whom can't see past the darkness, those whom have given up on life, he has helped build schools and parks. Such beliefs are dangerous to the body, and will no doubt lead to a mental breakdown. When the ego contradicts the true self and begins to manifest stronger then before, that is what I am referring to.

Devoid of Heart, remember there is no such thing as good and evil, people are prone to change, at all times.. the darkness and light are the Yin and Yang, the positive and negative, you cannot excape either, as they are always twisting and turning. A German philosipher wrote extensively on this subject, but his name escapes me at the moment...

Xu Yuan wrote: Such beliefs are dangerous to the body, and will no doubt lead to a mental breakdown.

Pardon my saying so, but this seems a bit presumptuous. The human brain is far too complicated to assume so much about its very nature from only a few spoken/written words. In fact, this phrase seems vaguely reminiscent of something else I've heard... Ah, I remember: "...these are the path to the Darkside." -Yoda, Star Wars: Episode Most of them.

Also, can we really be sure what the 'will' of nature is? Couldn't it be so all-encompassing that even our very thoughts played an important thought in it? Perhaps even what people deem as 'mistakes' are part of some ultimate destiny. I don't think we'll ever be completely sure.

But, I can see that this conversation is starting to stray profusely off-topic, and is also starting to garner certain spiritual beliefs, and as much as I'd love to drag God into this, I think I'll pass. It's not that I'm anti-religious, because I most certainly am not, but the mere mention of the such things seems to automatically spark an annoying debate from various mouths. I'm gonna go take a nap, instead.

Crim99 wrote:

Xu Yuan wrote: Such beliefs are dangerous to the body, and will no doubt lead to a mental breakdown.

Pardon my saying so, but this seems a bit presumptuous. The human brain is far too complicated to assume so much about its very nature from only a few spoken/written words. In fact, this phrase seems vaguely reminiscent of something else I've heard... Ah, I remember: "...these are the path to the Darkside." -Yoda, Star Wars: Episode Most of them.

Also, can we really be sure what the 'will' of nature is? Couldn't it be so all-encompassing that even our very thoughts played an important thought in it? Perhaps even what people deem as 'mistakes' are part of some ultimate destiny. I don't think we'll ever be completely sure.

But, I can see that this conversation is starting to stray profusely off-topic, and is also starting to garner certain spiritual beliefs, and as much as I'd love to drag God into this, I think I'll pass. It's not that I'm anti-religious, because I most certainly am not, but the mere mention of the such things seems to automatically spark an annoying debate from various mouths. I'm gonna go take a nap, instead.

The reason that sounds taken right out of Star War's is because Star WAr's take a lot from Taoism "The Force" "Tao" Mostt of Yoda's lines are snippetr's from the Lao-Tzu and Chuang-Tzu, just modified. Though many religion's make up the Jedi's religions.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that E1N directly stated that he was the light or the selfless. I also do not believe that he stated his actions in order to be placed upon a pedestal, but rather to serve as examples of what actions should be taken to better society rather then just sitting back and say that it isn't worth the effort to try to help.

From what I see the only the that E1N is doing is attempting to explain himself and his point of view. Frankly I do not see him saying that he did this great things and/or that he is doing this and that and aren't I just great for doing this stuff.

It's not like he said, "I mean look at what I have done to help make the world a slightly better place. *lists different activities*" He just said that he did it and that he didn't ask for anything in return and what was so bad about doing so.

Maybe it is just me, but I do not see what E1N said as nothing more then examples. I could see how people could perhaps stretch it to make seem as if he wanted recognition for doing those deeds by posting them in here, but I do not believe that was his intention.

Until E1N returns and is able to attempt to clarify what he was saying, I suggest that we all hold off on any sort of judgement on him. Heh...after all wasn't this topic originally about Communication? I don't believe that you should talk about someone if that person isn't present.

This is off-topic, but I would like to say that I am pleased with the way that this topic has gone so far. It has been a long time since there has been a topic that has sparked a discussion like this. Just make sure that you guys keep it clean and try to keep it from going off-topic or from descending into flamming. I would hate to have to lock this topic.

Right... one of the major difficulties about the English Language is that in its written script, many words can be taken to mean many different things. WIthout hearing the voice of the person, it is difficult to determine what they were trying to get at.

So what would be the said difference between Hearing and Listening without having to reference to a dictionary?

'Good' and 'Bad' are based on perspective, so I'm not sure if telling someone else their way of going about things is 'good' or 'bad' when that person might think differently.

Balance or not, it's how people choose to live their lives. If they wish to be selfish, so be it. If they wish to be selfless, so be it. I don't think people are selfish or whatnot, since we all strive for self at one point in our lives. Looking at our society, I wouldn't say communication is the problem. It's more or less Education and promotion of self-thought (I think I just made that up).

People who are considered 'outcasts' seem to gather on forums for some strange reason, and express views that are outstanding in my opinion. One step out that door with these thoughts, and someone is bound to shove something in your face about how they are right and you are wrong. So I don't think it's so much that people aren't listening, they just refuse to because it contradicts their way of thinking. The media influences all of us in a way, and this in turn leads to people thinking and believing in such things. If you bring in topics such as these to their attention, they might not be able to handle it?

I say let people live their lives. We haven't killed each other off yet, so I say we're doing a pretty good job at surviving. Keeping in mind that you should be grateful for what you have, and going out into the world trying to do what's good are kind of different. Instead of trying to do 'good' and converting our very harsh reality into a utopia that has been presented to us many times in media, why not just do what's right? Whether it be good or bad.

Xu Yuan wrote:The selfless issue is not targeted at you it is targeted at Akujiki, he says over and over again, he is the selfless, he is the light, he strives to help those whom can't see past the darkness, those whom have given up on life, he has helped build schools and parks. Such beliefs are dangerous to the body, and will no doubt lead to a mental breakdown. When the ego contradicts the true self and begins to manifest stronger then before, that is what I am referring to.

I must admit, you're pretty good at saying things masked in verbose statements. However rather than try to tell me how I am wrong, and that what I am doing will lead to my own downfall, why don't you go back a second and notice what I originally meant to say.

My question to you is, have you ever actually tried to be selfless? You keep attacking me for what I am, but you never quite say what you are, and perhaps you are simply playing devil's advocate for the sake of argument. And while for the sake of argument, I do strive to be selfless, but the reason I bring up many of the points in the past as well as the fact that I am selfless isn't because me as a whole is selfless, but because I have done selfless deeds that didn't take much out of the way to do. As Beowulf has said, I am not putting myself on a pedestal and saying "I am selfless, this is the way it should be," I am simply saying that people should try to think outside of themselves, and for those that think they shouldn't because it doesn't work, I simply say that I have tried, and succeeded, and it honestly isn't that hard to make even the smallest difference.

Also, you've proved my point in that communication is lost through this very argument, which was the point I was trying to prove from the very beginning. While we have been off on this "Einsamkeit isn't selfless" argument we have lost sight of why we are even arguing in the first place. To me, it seems like you took the opportunity to go out and beat someone down, rather than work with others to say this is the way it might work. You've been sitting there saying "this is wrong, this is wrong" rather than "you know, you have a good point, but this is how it would work better" even if it means moving into the grey area between ideals. You took the time to try and prove that you were superior in knowledge and intellect, rather than pooling that intellect together with the others around you. Synergy is a powerful thing, but only if people are willing to use it. And why isn't it there? Because communication is lost.

And for the record, many of the good deeds I have done I do not remember, but the larger ones I do only because they were not only a large impact on someone else, but they were on me. Sure, I may have helped in areas, but there is the key word that you seem to be ignoring: helped. I didn't do it for them, I was simply there if they needed someone to help them, guide them, ask advice, or simply to know that they weren't alone. As with any leadership position, you may teach and guide your followers, enabling them to become great leaders as well, but at the same time you as a leader learn from all of your experiences, and therefore grow just as much as they did. Nothing like that ever goes one way, and some of the larger milestones that I have reached were characterized by those kind of drivers, ones that I can look back on and go "hey, I remember when blah blah blah happened, I am now in this situation, in this set of circumstances I did this, because it is similar perhaps my plan of action should contain the following elements as well." It is simply a part of experience. If you have forgotten what you have done in the past, then chances are you will repeat the same mistakes, or you will simply not grow from your accomplishments. If the world forgot about World War II, and Hitler's persecution of the Jews, pretended like it never happened and never put in place things to stop something like that again, don't you think history might repeat itself?

I simply present a list of ideals, and because you attack me for presenting them, I have used my personal thoughts and experiences to show you why I believe that. So if you disagree with the ideals I present, attack the ideals and not me. It is easy to hurt people, and bring them pain, but much harder to sympathise with them, and to find common ground which you seem unable to do for one reason or another.

So tell me this, if I am so wrong in this desire to uphold an ideal of being selfless, then how should I change my own ideals to be more suitable to today's world while keeping my own goals in mind? Or better yet, how can people who are selfish perhaps meet me in middle ground, coming away from being an introvert and stepping towards being a little more selfless at times?

We know that the problem is, so stop agreeing that we disagree, and start making solutions. That right there is the shortfall in communication, the fact that we can talk talk talk, but not act. Just like if a faucet were running right now, we're all standing around talking how its running, wasting water, that maybe we should turn it off... but no one ever actually turns it off.

Xu Yuan wrote:there is no such thing as good and evil, people are prone to change, at all times.. the darkness and light are the Yin and Yang, the positive and negative, you cannot excape either, as they are always twisting and turning. A German philosipher wrote extensively on this subject, but his name escapes me at the moment...

You got your stuff all way mixed up. There is no Good and Evil? What have you been smokin? Have you seen what people do to each other? What man can do to each other? Evil? Man if you cant see Evil youre oblivious to the real world.

You cant tell me that when a man takes a baby and kills it, chops up the body and buries it is not evil. Man you need to be quiet cause you dont know what you are talking about.

You cant tell me when a KKK member kills a colored man because he looked a white woman isnt evil.

You cant tell me what they did to those guys did to those terrorist isnt evil.

Yea life changes. Its a struggle. Troubles come at you one by the other. But its how you get past it is what makes you who you are.

You fall, you get up and brush the dirt off ya and then you keep movin. Tell me why would you wallow in flith? Not good for you and nothing is there. Ill tell you what happens if you dont, youll die period. Aint nothin anyone can do for you.

Tell me this if theres no good or evil how do you get positive or negative? Besides you dont abide in it you have to choose one or the other.
You talk about Yin and Yang? you saw what happened to those people?

You cannot chase two rabbits. If you can ld like to see you try.

What happens is not what you take in but what comes out is what hurts you.

This is what gets me big time. You get all these philosphers and such. They make this stuff and ppl follow them. Heck they may not even believe what they are saying. But hey ppl follow them.

The only time you do get out is when you die and are judged from how you lived. So if you think about it doing things that dont edify you, is wasting your "life" and destroying your "self"

goin to bed night guys Use some common sense it always works.

Devoid of Heart wrote:Xu Yuan is right. There is no real Good and Evil. There is only perspective and opinion.

Sorry, but I must disagree. You're basically saying that no one is ever in the right or wrong, and I could never bring myself to agree with something like that. I don't think Good and Evil are so stereotypically defined as many seem to think and believe, however I do think that Good and Evil exist in their own respects. I'll continue to believe that there are some things in this world that remain good, no matter how much blatant corruption, depression, or apathy seems to take hold. While many of today's problems are not some simple choice between white or black, good or bad, and while there remains far more apparent gray to cloud people's sight, I will still believe that not everything will be tainted.

Kurotsuki wrote:I don't think people are selfish or whatnot, since we all strive for self at one point in our lives.

'Selfish.' People keep throwing this word around. Striving to better one's own position, aiming to become wealthier or more powerful, that in itself is not selfish. The wish to be greater is not inherently a bad thing, folks. However, it can lead to potentially precarious problems, excuse the alliteration. If a man wants to gain a promotion in his company so that he can live a more comfortable lifestyle, there is nothing selfish about that. It only becomes laced with conceitedness when the man goes to far, such as getting another person fired so that he might take that person's place. Of course, the idea of what is considered 'too far' is, in many cases, a matter of opinion, but I think most people know when that line has been crossed, whether they choose to acknowledge it or not.

///AKUJIKI-E1N54MK317 wrote:

Xu Yuan wrote:The selfless issue is not targeted at you it is targeted at Akujiki, he says over and over again, he is the selfless, he is the light, he strives to help those whom can't see past the darkness, those whom have given up on life, he has helped build schools and parks. Such beliefs are dangerous to the body, and will no doubt lead to a mental breakdown. When the ego contradicts the true self and begins to manifest stronger then before, that is what I am referring to.

I must admit, you're pretty good at saying things masked in verbose statements. However rather than try to tell me how I am wrong, and that what I am doing will lead to my own downfall, why don't you go back a second and notice what I originally meant to say.

My question to you is, have you ever actually tried to be selfless? You keep attacking me for what I am, but you never quite say what you are, and perhaps you are simply playing devil's advocate for the sake of argument. And while for the sake of argument, I do strive to be selfless, but the reason I bring up many of the points in the past as well as the fact that I am selfless isn't because me as a whole is selfless, but because I have done selfless deeds that didn't take much out of the way to do. As Beowulf has said, I am not putting myself on a pedestal and saying "I am selfless, this is the way it should be," I am simply saying that people should try to think outside of themselves, and for those that think they shouldn't because it doesn't work, I simply say that I have tried, and succeeded, and it honestly isn't that hard to make even the smallest difference.

Also, you've proved my point in that communication is lost through this very argument, which was the point I was trying to prove from the very beginning. While we have been off on this "Einsamkeit isn't selfless" argument we have lost sight of why we are even arguing in the first place. To me, it seems like you took the opportunity to go out and beat someone down, rather than work with others to say this is the way it might work. You've been sitting there saying "this is wrong, this is wrong" rather than "you know, you have a good point, but this is how it would work better" even if it means moving into the grey area between ideals. You took the time to try and prove that you were superior in knowledge and intellect, rather than pooling that intellect together with the others around you. Synergy is a powerful thing, but only if people are willing to use it. And why isn't it there? Because communication is lost.

And for the record, many of the good deeds I have done I do not remember, but the larger ones I do only because they were not only a large impact on someone else, but they were on me. Sure, I may have helped in areas, but there is the key word that you seem to be ignoring: helped. I didn't do it for them, I was simply there if they needed someone to help them, guide them, ask advice, or simply to know that they weren't alone. As with any leadership position, you may teach and guide your followers, enabling them to become great leaders as well, but at the same time you as a leader learn from all of your experiences, and therefore grow just as much as they did. Nothing like that ever goes one way, and some of the larger milestones that I have reached were characterized by those kind of drivers, ones that I can look back on and go "hey, I remember when blah blah blah happened, I am now in this situation, in this set of circumstances I did this, because it is similar perhaps my plan of action should contain the following elements as well." It is simply a part of experience. If you have forgotten what you have done in the past, then chances are you will repeat the same mistakes, or you will simply not grow from your accomplishments. If the world forgot about World War II, and Hitler's persecution of the Jews, pretended like it never happened and never put in place things to stop something like that again, don't you think history might repeat itself?

I simply present a list of ideals, and because you attack me for presenting them, I have used my personal thoughts and experiences to show you why I believe that. So if you disagree with the ideals I present, attack the ideals and not me. It is easy to hurt people, and bring them pain, but much harder to sympathise with them, and to find common ground which you seem unable to do for one reason or another.

So tell me this, if I am so wrong in this desire to uphold an ideal of being selfless, then how should I change my own ideals to be more suitable to today's world while keeping my own goals in mind? Or better yet, how can people who are selfish perhaps meet me in middle ground, coming away from being an introvert and stepping towards being a little more selfless at times?

We know that the problem is, so stop agreeing that we disagree, and start making solutions. That right there is the shortfall in communication, the fact that we can talk talk talk, but not act. Just like if a faucet were running right now, we're all standing around talking how its running, wasting water, that maybe we should turn it off... but no one ever actually turns it off.

Yes, I am one which would say "I strive to be selfless" because I avoid contact with most people, in terms of emotion does not mean I do not help. Though most of what I do, I suppose would be called common courtesy. You are right, helping other's is not a difficult thing to do, and doesn't take much to do either.

I am sorry, the reason I attacked you is, your attitude is of one whom had betrayed me in the past, so it is incredibly difficult for me to trust your sort. In trying to prove that I was more intelligent then you I tried to bury you, which was a selfish act, that I am sorry for, as I have said before you remind me far too much of him. Synergy... the collective group mind, will inevitably lead towards blind Zealotry, (which in most cases not involving religion or race is a good thing).

Accomplishment's you have done is a good thing, Accomplishment's based off the people is not. When you bring home a report card of all A's and B's you have a reason to be proud and confident. You help someone complete a master project, you do it because it is the right thing to do... but this is my view, and there are many, many differing views.

Of course if you are the leader or the epitome of the grand project, it is expected to store information regarding your game plan. Do not hold the people's admiration in mind, hold what you learned from this marvelous experience. That's what I should have said earlier.

As why I cannot agree with you... Our range of experiences and beliefs conflict far too greatly, while you believe you may be rewarded in the afterlife, I believe one should do "good deeds" just to do them, simply because it is the right thing to do. There are probably many, many differences but this is all I can see.

To keep the ideal of selflessness alive in this harrowing world, is to simply do good to do good, the people will change of their own accord when they see you're selfless. As the age old proverb goes "Those whom exhume Virtue draw the Vrtuous. Those whom exhume greed and self gain, draw the same. Those whom exhume selflessness will transform the people around him, making them selfless as well." It is all a matter of time, for the people you have helped Einsamkeit, I am sure you see a slight change in their personality? That is the first step towards selflessness. Odds are someone helped you long ago, with such an experience that changed you forever turning you into what people nowadays would call "silly idealist" I am the same way, I believe this world can be changed for the better little by little.

For the selfish? With the world slowly transforming around them, the collective group mind will slowly reach them, their selfish ways will have no place in that world. Though as long as desire stands in the way, this is a far off goal...

Ignus wrote:

Xu Yuan wrote:there is no such thing as good and evil, people are prone to change, at all times.. the darkness and light are the Yin and Yang, the positive and negative, you cannot excape either, as they are always twisting and turning. A German philosipher wrote extensively on this subject, but his name escapes me at the moment...

You got your stuff all way mixed up. There is no Good and Evil? What have you been smokin? Have you seen what people do to each other? What man can do to each other? Evil? Man if you cant see Evil youre oblivious to the real world.

You cant tell me that when a man takes a baby and kills it, chops up the body and buries it is not evil. Man you need to be quiet cause you dont know what you are talking about.

You cant tell me when a KKK member kills a colored man because he looked a white woman isnt evil.

You cant tell me what they did to those guys did to those terrorist isnt evil.

Yea life changes. Its a struggle. Troubles come at you one by the other. But its how you get past it is what makes you who you are.

You fall, you get up and brush the dirt off ya and then you keep movin. Tell me why would you wallow in flith? Not good for you and nothing is there. Ill tell you what happens if you dont, youll die period. Aint nothin anyone can do for you.

Tell me this if theres no good or evil how do you get positive or negative? Besides you dont abide in it you have to choose one or the other.
You talk about Yin and Yang? you saw what happened to those people?

You cannot chase two rabbits. If you can ld like to see you try.

What happens is not what you take in but what comes out is what hurts you.

This is what gets me big time. You get all these philosphers and such. They make this stuff and ppl follow them. Heck they may not even believe what they are saying. But hey ppl follow them.

The only time you do get out is when you die and are judged from how you lived. So if you think about it doing things that dont edify you, is wasting your "life" and destroying your "self"

goin to bed night guys Use some common sense it always works.

Devoid of Heart covered this beautifully much better then I could have done, but I will challenege your exampes of "evil" and call them what they are "malevolence", Zealotry stemmed most of what you mentioned above, because a malevolent group mind, is a much more powerful influence then a single mind, now this goes back to your first example.

That is a disturbed mind, one who has lost view of the world and locks away their feeling's while the malevolence absorbed is released in one horrid action that will destroy that individual's life. Lucky for me, I take Karate, to get such emotion's out.

Devoid of Heart wrote:Xu Yuan is right. There is no real Good and Evil. There is only perspective and opinion.
If you can't touch it, or recieve it with any sense, then it is not real. The concept of Good and Evil is an idea, not a fact.
And it's different for everybody. Even they usually agree on most, no amount of people completely agree about what is Good and Evil.
You must open your mind to understand this. And if you hate on or the other, you must study it to fight it. Charging in will only get you defeated.

The concept of religion is also an idea, and not a fact. You shouldn't use it in your posts when trying to convince someone of something. It doesn't work on everybody, and the people it does work on aren't the ones you're trying to convince. And common sense is overrated.

Ah, right, sorry my views are distinctly different from many, many other's and bringing a hardly known religion into the mix just made things worse. As can be told, my mind's in a bit of a loop and it's hard to type, less even speak coherently. Not because of anything I've been doing it's just the way I am.

Xu Yuan wrote: As why I cannot agree with you... Our range of experiences and beliefs conflict far too greatly, while you believe you may be rewarded in the afterlife, I believe one should do "good deeds" just to do them, simply because it is the right thing to do. There are probably many, many differences but this is all I can see.

Yes, people should do good to do it, to take action, to better someone else's life even a little bit, rather than just sitting around. Isn't that what Akujiki was trying to say? When you take one side and argue against it so strongly, you don't really leave yourself open for suggestions. I'm not necessarily directing that at you, just trying to remind everyone about that. What good is a discussion if we can't try to understand each other a bit? Actually, that's something Akujiki brought up in the beginning of the thread.

As far as this "good and evil is only an idea, not a fact" thing goes, I think that's total bull. I suppose I am a bit bitter about this topic, but that's not the only reason I think like that on the subject. Even if a person views good and evil differently from another, there are things that are just plain good or wrong, as some other users were saying before me.

There IS good and evil, how can you say its not. Sounds to me that some of you think in the universe there are no absolutes its just opinion. But within itself that is an abosolute. Maybe I'm missing the point here but thats what i've gathered from what i have read. Without abosulutes the very universe would crumble.

We should drop this argument about good and evil, there is no way one side will get the other to agree, there are argument's and "proof" for both, this serves to say that "good and evil are in the eye of the beholder"

This argument will go on forever if allowed to continue as well it strays from the original point of the discussion. Which was what to do to help the common peole and what to do to make the selfish a little more selfless.

its morely turned to does evil and good exist versuses to what it was. Pretty good discussion if i may say myself

Xu Yuan wrote:Accomplishment's you have done is a good thing, Accomplishment's based off the people is not. When you bring home a report card of all A's and B's you have a reason to be proud and confident. You help someone complete a master project, you do it because it is the right thing to do... but this is my view, and there are many, many differing views.

Of course if you are the leader or the epitome of the grand project, it is expected to store information regarding your game plan. Do not hold the people's admiration in mind, hold what you learned from this marvelous experience. That's what I should have said earlier.

Are you listening to yourself? Cause this is funny as hell... you're just SO full of yourself its hilarious! AND THIS IS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE!!!

Have I ever once said I am basing my accomplishments off of people? Ok, lets be selfish for a second. I have A LOT of accomplishments that outweigh my good deed doing, I may be rich beyond some people's wildest dreams, more intelligent, more articulate, and have set myself up to be successful by default in life. But do you see me conveying that right now? NO! And not once did I say "I help people because it makes me feel good to know that I did it" when I specifically said I HELP them, I don't do it for them. In other words, they do all of the work, I am just there if they need some help, just like a teacher is for a student, or a leader is to a soldier. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

And the other thing, and it REALLY cracks me up, is that I SAID EXACTLY THAT SECOND THING. Now you're just arguing, once again, to prove me wrong. In your argument, you also made a few assumptions, one that I am overly religious and do good deeds to be rewarded in the afterlife. Let me tell you this... I am almost not religious except for a few bursts here and there. I learn from the teachings of God, however I don't always believe in it, kind of a contradiction of source... that'll change in about four weeks, but until that time that is how it goes. I am not afraid of death, nor do I ponder on what will happen after it. When it happens.... we'll, I'll find out. But by assuming every single thing about me, or anyone else that argues against you, you're presenting a false reality to yourself to fight against.

Why not try this... shut your mouth, and stop making dumb assumptions and actually find out what people are really like before you say something to embarrass yourself again? Am I being mean and selfish right now? Yes, absolutely. Why? Because you said that we can't always be that, right? But that's right... in the end of your last argument, you touched on how being selfless was good and righteous, and how the world will transform around people who are like that, yet not too long ago when you were quoting Chuang-Tzu and Lau-Tzu, you were saying that being selfless doesn't work in today's society, and it is better to take your "non-action" approach.

So other than having more flip flops than a beach AND John Kerry... what is you REAL opinion, NOT the opinion of the people you are quoting?

///AKUJIKI-E1N54MK317 wrote:

Xu Yuan wrote:Accomplishment's you have done is a good thing, Accomplishment's based off the people is not. When you bring home a report card of all A's and B's you have a reason to be proud and confident. You help someone complete a master project, you do it because it is the right thing to do... but this is my view, and there are many, many differing views.

Of course if you are the leader or the epitome of the grand project, it is expected to store information regarding your game plan. Do not hold the people's admiration in mind, hold what you learned from this marvelous experience. That's what I should have said earlier.

Are you listening to yourself? Cause this is funny as hell... you're just SO full of yourself its hilarious! AND THIS IS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE!!!

Have I ever once said I am basing my accomplishments off of people? Ok, lets be selfish for a second. I have A LOT of accomplishments that outweigh my good deed doing, I may be rich beyond some people's wildest dreams, more intelligent, more articulate, and have set myself up to be successful by default in life. But do you see me conveying that right now? NO! And not once did I say "I help people because it makes me feel good to know that I did it" when I specifically said I HELP them, I don't do it for them. In other words, they do all of the work, I am just there if they need some help, just like a teacher is for a student, or a leader is to a soldier. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

And the other thing, and it REALLY cracks me up, is that I SAID EXACTLY THAT SECOND THING. Now you're just arguing, once again, to prove me wrong. In your argument, you also made a few assumptions, one that I am overly religious and do good deeds to be rewarded in the afterlife. Let me tell you this... I am almost not religious except for a few bursts here and there. I learn from the teachings of God, however I don't always believe in it, kind of a contradiction of source... that'll change in about four weeks, but until that time that is how it goes. I am not afraid of death, nor do I ponder on what will happen after it. When it happens.... we'll, I'll find out. But by assuming every single thing about me, or anyone else that argues against you, you're presenting a false reality to yourself to fight against.

Why not try this... shut your mouth, and stop making dumb assumptions and actually find out what people are really like before you say something to embarrass yourself again? Am I being mean and selfish right now? Yes, absolutely. Why? Because you said that we can't always be that, right? But that's right... in the end of your last argument, you touched on how being selfless was good and righteous, and how the world will transform around people who are like that, yet not too long ago when you were quoting Chuang-Tzu and Lau-Tzu, you were saying that being selfless doesn't work in today's society, and it is better to take your "non-action" approach.

So other than having more flip flops than a beach AND John Kerry... what is you REAL opinion, NOT the opinion of the people you are quoting?

Actually I am agreeing with you on this point you quote, I am just saying that as future reference, I should have made myself clearer, which I lack the clarity to do so. I am not saying you have done this, the point I was trying to make using that statment, was, unless you were a main part of the project or contributed alot, or was the leader of such a thing should you keep it close as a memory, for future planning in similar ventures. I am not saying this as "this is an epiphany that just dawned on me". I am saying this to "correspond" with your point.

I was not aware you were not the typical westerner, I am sorry for that assumption, I lack foresight like no other. As well I apologize for saying the reason I cannot agree with you... I wasn't thinking straight at the time.

Non action is what I describe here as well. Taking the path of non action is taking the path of selflessness to a degree that is, it is precisely what you do I take it? You look for people whom look like they're in the middle of something big. Ask them if they need help and they agree, not bad at all first step towards selflessness, as long as there is no other motive but to assist. Or you happen to be at the right place at the right time.

"To take as your mind, the people in all things that you do, to follow nature's will, to move with the ebb and flow of the world." My mind is a mess right now and my thought's aren't possibly being configured right.

You ask me for my suggestions, I give them, but you look past them and continue on looking for negatives,As well I have never said that being selfless doesn't work, this was a small misunderstanding, what I said was they were revered as gods and saints in much simpler times, not saying not to be selfless, once again sorry for that misunderstanding. I understand that. However contrary of agreeing with you and giving you suggestions, you say to "shut your mouth"? I am not sure where this unwarranted hate comes from...

Hopefully this makes things a little clearer, aside from indirectly insulting you (if you notice I said "may") there was not one "argument" against you in this post, um... not once in that post do I say you are doing this to feel good about yourself, I'm not sure where you're drawing that from, if you are bringing up a point from an earlier post I made, then I apologize, but attacking me for it now isn't too your advantage. This post was in all ways agreeing with you... (besides for that Christianity remark, I've already apoplogized for that though.)

Anime Monkey wrote:Yes, people should do good to do it, to take action, to better someone else's life even a little bit, rather than just sitting around. Isn't that what Akujiki was trying to say? When you take one side and argue against it so strongly, you don't really leave yourself open for suggestions. I'm not necessarily directing that at you, just trying to remind everyone about that. What good is a discussion if we can't try to understand each other a bit? Actually, that's something Akujiki brought up in the beginning of the thread.

Exactly, I was agreeing with him, as I've said before the barrier between message board and actually talking face to face is indeed thick. Of course with my poor example of non action that's very simple to tell why.

To clarify it for everyone Non Action is called non action for it's dealings in universal balance, to not take action againt the flow of things, such examples of this are to resist change. Alot of the other's are of Feng Shui and Geomancy and the like. An example of non action is helping the people. Assisting them in all they do, I hope that makes it easier to understand

///AKUJIKI-E1N54MK317 wrote:...you're just SO full of yourself its hilarious! ...I may be rich beyond some people's wildest dreams, more intelligent, more articulate, and have set myself up to be successful by default in life. But do you see me conveying that right now? NO!

Just a forewarning: you do no want to go down this road, ein. I don't think I've ever come across more of a blatant, pretentious braggart on teh intraweb, and I'll be damned to see you call a decent member of this forum full of himself and tell him to "shut [his] mouth."

Do you see how an arguement arose between Akujiki and Xu Yuan over a misunderstanding?

It's the different experiences you two carry, and how you try to portray your ideas that conflict with each other. This is a prime example of the problem with Communication in our society and world today.

So I think, before either of you go out and try any 'selfless' acts with only the motive to assist, you should try and settle this difference on this thread first. Because, all this 'misunderstanding' is going to turn into some full blown arguement.

Looking at this, yeah communication is a big problem. We all can't get our ideas across to each other, because of misunderstandings and assumptions made by each other. Ontop of that, due to one person being hurt from it, they refuse to forgive the other person and continue the talk civilized like Akujiki had mentioned in his first post.

To those people who think "I don't need anyone but myself, and i don't really care about others" maybe you don't... and that's pretty messed up of you. My question is, why don't people understand that communication is the greatest thing we have. We hold so much back in fear of hurting someone else or causing unneeded drama. Why cant we just talk and listen, be understanding. So many of our problems today would be so much better if we talked, and listened. If you have a problem with someone then why not tell them, but be respectful of their side as well, and if someone is confronting you with a problem they have, then look at it from THEIR point of view as well as their own. Why not try to be understanding? Its extremely simple.

I believe he had stated this. I don't think it's extremely simple, since some people here have yet to grasp the concept. Maybe people should self-reflect more often, since as long as humans experience different things in life, and hold true to different beliefs, communication will always remain a problem. Why will it always remain a problem?

Maybe someone can help me with that last question.

Maromi wrote:

///AKUJIKI-E1N54MK317 wrote:...you're just SO full of yourself its hilarious! ...I may be rich beyond some people's wildest dreams, more intelligent, more articulate, and have set myself up to be successful by default in life. But do you see me conveying that right now? NO!

Just a forewarning: you do no want to go down this road, ein. I don't think I've ever come across more of a blatant, pretentious braggart on teh intraweb, and I'll be damned to see you call a decent member of this forum full of himself and tell him to "shut [his] mouth."

LOL, I know, its called "devil's advocate" and am I not a good user? Sorry that parts of subjects I use in formal debates seem to be unsatisfactory to the administration, especially when my record notes that I just might know what I'm doing. But if you would like me to actually brag brag... I could give you my full resume. It got me accepted to Yale, Georgetown, University of Chicago... yeah. Those are elements in my debate, given they were presented somewhat incorrectly, but it is a tactic none the same.

And yes, he is a good upstanding member of this forum, I agree. This is simply a debate of ideology, and in all conflict, there are its good sides and bad side. So there you have it.

No, you just feel the need to brag wherever you are, whenever. You don't realize that nobody gives a ****, yet you constantly feel the need to boast about your personal life. People don't like that. You're far from a selfless person, ein; you're a conceited, spoiled, arrogant, ostentatious, obnoxious kid.

Oh, and stop acting as if you have authority around here. You don't. Get over it.