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I don't really think it's "rage", I just believe the game has a lot to be said for it... And not just as an FF, but as an RPG and a game in general. It matches better what I'd like to see across the board.

Ranylyn wrote:I don't consider "game over when main character dies and oh look, main character is doomed so I have a time limit but I want to play defensively so I don't die since I'm underlevelled" rewarding, sorry to say. In other RPGs, you can beat the game at low levels with a plan. In FFXIII, there were times that my sister was forced to grind, due to doom on the main character and simply not having a high enough output to be able to do it in time.

It's a balancing mechanism. I think it puts the game at just the right difficulty. I really think you should play the game, this is kind of like like judging the mainstream gameplay of FFXII based on the most ridiculousest Mob Hunts. In the main story, you really shouldn't need to grind. Sometimes you might be compelled to sneak attack, but there's almost always a strategy that works. And the other good thing about this game is that the strategy is intelligible. It's not esoteric and designed to sell guides, like Xenosaga Episode II bosses with an AABCDEAABBFFF weak point.

Ranylyn wrote:However, back to the issue of doom on the party leader for one moment, this forces all out offensives, since Doom cannot be removed and unless your levels are high enough to overwhelm the enemy in time, game over, end of story.

It forces efficiency, yes, but not necessarily offensives. In fact I don't know how you could possibly play this game without taking a defensive/tactical approach to any long-term battle. Anything else is a formula for just running out of health. The entire point is balancing it...

Ranylyn wrote:As an old school RPG gamer, the generation of gamers this kind of thing spawns makes me die inside. Gamers these days are too babied by retry options or savepoints right before evry boss, then they play something a little more old school and can't stop moaning about needing to spend a whopping 5 minutes to get back to the boss. I mean seriously, many perfectly good games, even ones from the last generation, are now considered garbage by modern critics simply since new age games totally pamper and baby the gamers this way.

I actually see this as another way games used to extend playtime. Wtf does the player get out of it? Sure people shouldn't be knocking good games because of it, I agree 100% with that, but that doesn't change the fact it's a flawed mechanism. Throwing you right back into the battle so you can actually master it in some fashion is much more fun in my opinion. And you complain about how retrying is so easy, but also about how dying is so easy (via the leader), so don't they cancel out? You die more, but spend all the time lost fighting and learning rather than being punished for punishment's sake. In the same way you can rewind out of battles that are unwinnable and do something that wasn't dumb instead of just suffering for the sake of suffering.

Ranylyn wrote:Actually, I see armor, helmets, and gauntlets as an in-game explanation on "how the heck you survive getting smashed by a behemoth." The Weapon-and-accessory system that was used in FFVII, FFX, and FFXIII (or just weapon at all in FFVIII) simply dumbs down things for those who waste all their money on potions and can't afford armor, personally.

90% of all RPG battle systems have nothing to do with the actual story, so I really don't think that really justifies it for me. You never even see most of this equipment you're supposedly wearing. Though as a sidenote FFXIII's battle system is actually surprisingly canon, which is another thing I like... Not the leader thing, and if I were them I'd splurge on jetpacks, but overall the power of a l'cie is consistent between the cutscenes and the battle system, and kind of even a plot point...

Ranylyn wrote:Armor is part of a goood strategy. This plate gives +100 def but -30 attack? Well, I could give it to a glass cannon to balance survival vs damage, I could give it as a tank to make him toughr and weaker, I could not use it at all, etc. Games without armor just have a defense stat tied in to levels mostly, which cuts in to the character customizing, and with it, the strategy, immensely.

You still have a lot of that thinking going on when equipping your characters in FFXIII, you just don't have to do it five times per person.

Ranylyn wrote:It depends on the content. If you're not enjoying the gameplay, any game can feel too long. You just want to beat it, you just want to see if it gets better, etc etc.

A common complaint is "there are too many cutscenes." I was trying to respond to that. Anyway even if a game is awesome if it's too short I'll feel ripped off... (MadWorld)

Ranylyn wrote:On the topic of FFXIII and main characters, back to my "game over when leader goes down" comment. If we accept that every character is a main character, then why are the others ncapable of carrying on when one person goes down? If you ask me, that was a poorly thought out mechanic. I could understand it in shooters where you have a squad or something, but the difference is that FF has healing magic, revival magic, and potions galore, there's no reason they can't be healed, right?

Like armor I don't think this is a story issue so much as a gameplay balance issue. There's no logic behind it. There's no logic behind castling in chess. I have never seen a king move a tower around himself. But it works and helps make the game if you give it a chance.

Ranylyn wrote:*shrugs* I guess we'll just need to agree to disagree here. If a game is too linear, it just gets boring, with zero exploration. Don't get me wrong, many RPGs are pretty linear, but my sister says it was a bigger issue in FFXIII. FFX was also linear as hell, but at least it had the rare side area, like Yojimbo's cave, that you could explore as you progressed.Apparently the only thing like this FFXIII had was with areas you needed chocobos to reach in the endgame.

I haven't actually explored all of Pulse, but yeah it is a pretty linear game. Again I find that a welcome change of pace from looking for Pete the Bird Guy or waiting five hours for the next cutscene. Being able to move freely around a world seems to come at the expense of being able to move freely forward in time... There are quests on Pulse, I haven't done them all so I can't really vouch for them...

Note there will be slight spoilers.

Chocobo Hot and Cold becoming even more boring than it was in 9, Vanille's dumb robot dog, 64 hunts that offer little more than throwback fights with Cactuar and Tonberries after fighting a bunch of recolors and then more recolors was crap (hell at least the hunts in 12 occasionally led to new areas like the deeper parts of the Lhusu mines. I'd much rather deal with random NPCs than talk to stones in the single spot that I get to do any deviation and gain something from it), and a fighting extravaganza with little new to offer which I had been doing all game anyway for Titan's Trials were hardly the most endearing side quests I've experienced.

Other RPGs have similar crap but I don't think 13 handled this well. You're still spending roughly 40-60 hours on this game sans side crap anyway so what exactly is the excuse for the linear areas. I don't mind linear areas every FF has had them to some extent, but they were small segmented areas that showed differences in between, here I have several large areas that offer little in variety with few exceptions.

The locales look great, it's too bad I can't go anywhere most of the time, it's too bad I have my party once I recall screaming that I'm going the wrong way at one point. FF 12 for all it did wrong at least had **** for me to look at, I remember stopping in the cave right before Archades because I veered off to find this waterfall with flowers nearby, useless as it was at least I could see the bloody thing rather than stare at a pretty ***** sunset from the distance as the sunlight glistens off this awesome building in Palumpolum that I will never enter because the story dictates I'm a fugitive 20 times worse than Cecil, the Returners, Avalanche, Balamb Garden mercs, traitors to Yevon who murdered a Maester and can still buy potions in Luca before clearing our names. While it certainly makes sense I'm still playing a game that I bought at full price by brand name alone and I long for entertainment, not frustration and rage.

Battle system I'll leave alone (touched on in edit), I hate it, but at least it's doing something new. Then again FF2 tried something new back in the day and it still proved to be a pile of ****. One thing I will not tolerate however is DEAD LEADER, SMT 3 Persona 3 and 4, all humans dead in SMT (small number usually) don't get away with this **** either. But at least none of them had this fetish for timing me the way FF 13 does as if the boss has a hot date waiting but they're coming to his house and they're cheating on them with me and needs to finish up our romantic rendezvous as quickly as possible, leaving me unfulfilled as one of us needs to finish up without afterglow and I get thrown out regardless either to do it all again or beat my obsession and leave them forever. In either case I'm left mostly unfulfilled.

Give FF 12 flak for a lot of things, but was switching party members at anytime and when they fell and using the full range of them when you had them with few restrictions really a bad idea? (If you're going to tell me this will upset balance and I call **** especially with chapter 13 alone, if standard enemies with the HP of bosses is called balanced then I believe we've lost sight on this issue long ago, if you find the tedious fights you need to have in order to feel secure in taking on the boss taking 5 minutes (provided you don't know how to break the system with stagger in which case you're at a few seconds and I'm still hating the fact that I know enough to do this) per fight then go right ahead and feel rewarded, I do not, I feel like I wasted time better spent playing another game. Now if you excuse me I'll go off to fight Yiazmat in FF 12 three times in a row without using gambits because truly I personally believe this is what one may as well say they enjoy doing.) I remember in chapter 3 having Hope in my party, I go to the menu, he's there can't get the ass in my party, nope switching comes into play in chapter 9... 20 hours into the game... I know we're using only 2 people for the majority of the time before that but... why? There is no excuse for this... at all.

(And if someone wants to go "LOL FF4" or any FF before 6 which did not allow switching, consider that these games are far older and the first one that had this was 6 and from then on it became the standard and expected. Also consider that 6 when it split you into 2-3 man groups after getting Sabin allowed you to choose scenarios something this game really really hates letting you have any control of. Chapters mid-4 through 6 could have potentially be made into something you voluntarily switched through as until roughly 7 and 8 Lightning's group and Sazh's group didn't really effect one another. Now if someone will say "well FF4 GBA port let you switch WAAAYY late too!" you're basically telling me that FF XIII is relying on an excuse for a port of a 15 year old game that only allowed switching due to the new content added. Okay!)

The game's story has an interesting premise but my pure disdain for the characters and the dialogue from everyone that isn't Sazh or Fang makes me want to turn up random music very very loud or punch someone in the mouth. Now I would hardly call Persona 3 original, but why am I viewing the Ken and Shinji scenario again only Ken is named Hope and became an even whinier **** who acts like his mother has been dead for years and he's been planning revenge when really he should still be in shock of this and many other events that have transpired. Over like... a few days

Oh I know, it's because he's JUST AT THAT AGE. Just like he's just at that age to hate his father who only works hard to provide for his family and give them a beautiful home. No I **** you not the datalog that won't stop updating like a f***ing twitterphile tells me this so it must be true!

Go f*** yourself, datalog. wrote:Bartholomew is Hope's father.

He loves both his wife and son, but is clumsy at expressing it. Things are made even more difficult by Hope's rebellious age and unreasoning resentment towards his dad.

Oh I loved this part of the game, I love hearing about Hope and his irrational daddy issues that amount to jack **** (well Snow being shirtless... but other than that) just like I loved the amazing one liners that make me slowly lose faith in everything I've known.

Cloud and Squall's adopted daughter. I wonder who's on top anyway. wrote:Fighting without hope is no way to live. It's just a way to die.

Needless to say if I can't tolerate Hope, and if I can find fault in Lightning, it's very obvious what my feelings for Vanille are (even when she becomes serious), I can actually tolerate Snow if only because Lightning's bitchiness became old hat and everyone giving him **** got tired after a while. So let's not go there lest I talk until the end of time. I don't hate Fang because even after chapter 7 I still don't know much about her, what i will fault her fore are her chapter 10 antics: which more or less amounted to "**** Cocoon" and then Bahamut who senses that there might be legitimate conflict in the plot comes in to save the day from there being a fight against a human that won't transform (out of cutscenes) or isnt' clad in metal just like it did with Jihl! And we're pushed forward to an airship which like the last three times we've been on one crashes in the middle of nowhere because heaven forbid Pulse be more than 1 mile wide and that we can visit several areas without walking or warping, no that is soooo FF9.

Now on the story itself I feel like I said, interesting premise, but horrendously executed. I pointed out silly dialogue issues but let's take a look at character action. You have a bunch of people cursed with certain doom and instead we're not going to focus on that. We're going to SPLIT UP, we're going to DIG UP CRYSTALIZED FIANCES (this is the one legitimate thing that was done, it may not have made sense but stupid as this is I see it as a labor of love. One more point for Snow you lucky lucky bastard), we're going to go to the amusement park (oh they were going in there for cover you say? Why would they go to a populated area wouldn't taht be risky, oh noone would recognize them, just like noone should recognize them in towns save for Psicom until they get caught on camera in chapter 7 making reasoning to avoid towns at taht point completely invalid. And if they were always going to be followed why would Sazh think it's a great idea to go to a populated area and placing more people at risk?), we're gonna go to dad's house!

Now going to Pulse made sense to look for a way to be rid of their marks... but apparently we're not in such a hurry since we went camping (WE COULD CAMP!? YOU SPENT ALL THIS TIME MAKING ME AVOID TOWNS AND THUS INNS BUT NOW WE CAN HAVE A CAMPOUT!? There may have been one in chapter 4 I can't remember. Point is now that I'm not being chased... you'll let me camp... but you won't say put a town on Pulse, one with people mind you as in NOT OERBA, that's a dungeon the same way that Zanarkand in FF 10 is a dungeon.) and let Hope cry so Alexander could pimp slap him. (Speaking of which know what would have been a GREAT time for Alexander to show up?! CHAPTER MOTHERF***ING SEVEN WHEN HOPE IS GOING BATSHIT ON SNOW! GOOD JOB SCENARIO WRITERS!) and the oh joyous of joys we're going to kill Cocoon's life source and everything will turn out okay because of two things.

1. The game never stated TWO OR MORE people COULDN'T become Ragnarok, it also never stated TWO RAGNAROKS were unable to FUSE so... the game since it never said this COULDN'T happen does just that... I'm sure someone somewhere finds this to be brilliant writing. I say this is on the level of what was FF8 disk 3 which in my experience turned me away from JRPGs for a few years. Yes I didn't play FF9 on release due to that betrayal.

2. Lightning says:

ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH! wrote:We make the impossible possible!

And Barth says some nonsense on machine gods being super duper limited and unable to harm themselves or other Fal'cie apparently. (I can't remember if there were rules against directly killing humans or not but if there were then killing Jihl was a no no.)

I'm aware I'm not being very coherent, I just don't like this game, I can understand why people do but I refuse to let someone give so arrogant a statement as this without response:

This really hawt guy!~<3 wrote:Really, even if you don't like it, you have to agree the standard RPG mold it's trying to break is dumb as hell. Games shouldn't be engineered to waste your time.

When all I've done even before beating up on defenseless turtles is waste my time. I still had to go through the sphere grid- I MEAN CRYSTARIUM that just like the rest of the game offered few choices compared to its predecessors in order to increase my skills still, I still had to deal with accessories (let me guess you want those gone too), I still had to customize weapons (you can get through the game without doing that but if I have the option to become stronger why wouldn't I, don't treat me like it's my fault that time is wasted, you'll then have to treat everyone who didn't do an NCU run of this game like this).

But hey least I didn't have to waste time shopping with what limited way I had to make any money. Because Dark Matter, something from SPACE dropping out of a turtle, and Ingots totally make more sense than money and other crap, just like all those Fortisols and other **** I get from battle make total sense. Even 12 and its stupid loot system handled this better and even rewarded me once in a while with special packs of items that were sometimes useful equipment (though I still question what an arcana looks like and what it would be used for, why would I be paid for this. But I say this proves we shouldn't think about this, just as one shouldn't think about how impossible it is to dig in a wolf's anus to find gil).

If you like this game good for you, but don't tell me I HAVE to agree to ANYTHING. I don't mind having to find out what I need to do to progress in a game by actually exploring a town, talking to people, inspecting scenery and finding hidden stuff be it items or side content along the way no matter how tedious I'm still given options and I appreciate it. Even if I did agree to look at this from another perspective (which I have, I can get why the battle system is so highly praised, I can get that not everyone wants to spend time doing what are admittedly mundane tasks) I will deny having done so out of spite for having this demanded of me or anyone that dares to dislike the game.

In all FF 13 annoyed me to no end. I won't tell anyone to hate this game, I will state what I feel about it, but what I will not do is allow someone no matter who it may be to force me or anyone to say that this was revolutionary, that this was an evolution, and just because it could be an evolution to the genre doesn't necessarily mean the alterations were for the better. I will speak more on this if I see it as necessary.

(Hey at least I didn't pull out every famous quote, let alone MOMS ARE TOUGH. Or even go into how I truly feel about TOWNZ. Until edits happened and even then I'm really not even done yet.)

Edit: One last thing I want to point out partly in relation to side stuff, remember that mech Hope rode in chapter 4? Why weren't there more amusing segments like this say involving your Eidolons, they transform into things to ride, chapter 12 would have had been perfect for this. And just to clarify I don't see 13 as a bad game, more a massive disappointment, moreso than I saw 12 as even though there was some aspects of 12 I really really loved I can't say the same for 13.

Also in case it's brought up by anyone at any point for some reason countering one point or another: I don't want to hear anything about any Episode Zero web novel. No I don't care that it adds to the story, stuff like this should have been in game as they certainly had enough fun toying with me dropping flashbacks all over. Last I checked with few exceptions in regards to FF5 (remember the anime I forget if it's unlimited or infinity) and 7 (movie, not going to go into all the other games involved as I'm trying to focus on material that isn't a game) FF largely isn't a multimedia franchise in the way that say, .hack is where you almost MUST have each and every single game, novel, manga, anime, and movie to get everything out of the plot, even then I say such material should be separate enough from one another to stand alone (.hack succeeds in this regard), I don't believe that Episode Zero does this (granted I really do like it but to further understand the characters which I don't feel FF XIII did a good job at for me this almost becomes necessary and this doesn't sit well with me).

Edit: Another thing I want to discuss briefly, retry option. I actually like that this is there however I'm not going to deny it feels like an excuse to baby newcomers and to make battles annoying for those who don't want to obsessively buff and debuff during each and every single fight they get into let alone faff about before battle trying to poke at a Behemoth's behind. I can be entirely off base but this is how I see it.

Auto-battle, this can be there, I don't have issue with it being there as I'm not using it, what I do hold issue with is that it's there on the menu front and center being obnoxious as can be. This is my own personal vendetta based on positioning so obviously this is not a legitimate complaint by any means. Note I won't fault anyone for using auto-battle and certainly not repeat as I felt much of the battle system amounted to: waste time and be bored as you sift through commands hoping this bird won't chew on Vanille's skirt or be bored as you mash on X (or O if you're into that sort of thing, possibly even A in which case you'd never hear the end of it from fanboys who conveniently forgot Square used to be butt buddies with Nintendo before licking Sony's nipples.) They would still need to learn how to Paradigm shift efficiently or rely on random chance with Com, Rav, Med.

Paradigm shifting I feel to be a bit of a drag, but shame on me for liking FF5's handling of the battle system best where your initial form got all abilities as you progressed in your jobs. I'm a silly nostalgia-tard bent on hating everything after FF6 forever oh woe is me. No, I also liked X-2's handling better even if it limited you based on class. So then what becomes my issue with Paradigm shift? I find the limitations to be very absurd based on individuals, not only have we gone back in time to 1987 and have only 6 classes, but now attacking is forbidden (though it would be useless in some cases) Now we have classes based purely on buffing and debuffing, on defending, healing. One may tell me it's for the strategy involved in customizing patterns for this, and that may be true. It's just not something I appreciate just like I don't appreciate having the combinations I made to be wiped clean as soon as an Eidolon comes by to fight.

Now on music which I neglected to mention, good, but there's not much I can say is memorable with the exceptions of the main battle theme and Lightning's theme (the latter is a variation of the other or vice versa) and that's only because you're going to have to hear the battle theme all the time. However I'll admit I only remember a few select tracks from older FFs but certainly more than I do 12 and 13. At the very least though I like 12's OST more 13's is more memorable than 12's as all I remember from 12 was Destiny.

Wow, this has become a FF hate-or-don't =o



I don't remember quite well about most games I've played, so I'll say the worst game I DO remember something: Final Fantasy XII.

I DID get 100% on that one, sure, but only out of fanboyism at the time. The story goes on sooooo slow and you don't even know if the main character is really Vaan or Asch. Also, the ending just sucks.

When you get into Gambits, you don't actually play, it plays by itself (auto-grinding trick is an example of this). I finished both Hell Wyrm and Yiazmat without even touching the controller after setting the strategies.

Also, wtf did Penelo do the entire game after being captured on the very beginning? Oh yeah, she hit on Larsa, who I thought was a girl for quite some time -_-'
Great character -n

Worst game(s) I've played so far have been Lunar: Dragon Song for the DS and Dragonball Z: Taiketsu for the GBA. The former has a terrible combat system and the latter... well, it's my own fault for even buying that game. Seriously, I don't even remember why I wanted it in the first place.

The best Dragon Ball Z game was System Battle 22... and that one sucked ass anyway, DB games as a rule (yes even Legacy of Goku 1 and 2 and Buu's Fury) suck. At least from what I experienced. Can't speak on the NES ones but SNES, Genesis, Saturn, PS1 etc. have all been just: crap to meh.

Anime Monkey wrote:Worst game(s) I've played so far have been Lunar: Dragon Song for the DS and Dragonball Z: Taiketsu for the GBA. The former has a terrible combat system and the latter... well, it's my own fault for even buying that game. Seriously, I don't even remember why I wanted it in the first place.

Game never existed as far as Im concerned.

tl;dr on Kuukai and Ranylyn's absurbly long posts.

But on my 2 cents regarding ffxiii

The game has serious design flaws:

1. No backtracking - This game is damn right one of the most beautiful games in the entire series. Everywhere you look, there is detail there, items to pick up and awesome battles to take in. Unforunately you don't go back...whatsoever. FFXII had the ability to go back to any zone via airship. And in a game where emphasis is placed on "sci-fi", I don't see where the sci-fi elements really shine here in terms of gameplay over story. I don't understand why you can have all these damn save shops that don't teleport you back to old zones (yet you can with Cieth stones?????) Again, weird sh!t.

2. No hills or jumping? - I'm a rising game designer and I play games to play games. Guess what, there is not alot to do outside of battle except running in a straight line and scripted jumping. Apparently the l'Cie are super badass but their powers are held back or w/e like the dumb ass power setup in Metroid Other M. I don't know what is so appealing to these game designers who make fences or some other tard based wall where my characters can obviously jump 50 stories down but can't manage to make a good 2 foot leap over the fence. Don't bs me or insult me as a gamer >.<. Not only that, everything is directed for the battles. Why is it in FF8 I was getting abilities of the GF forces as other FF entires and not here? *Gasp* don't fix something that isn't broken.

3. WTF Concepts?! - So...my eidolon or summon has no game or anything to do outside of battles with the exception of cutscenes. Why do I need a chocobo when I can just run on Odin's/Other's gestalt mode instead? *Gasp* there's an idea! Why is it I can't summon the different eidolons? Don't give me that "It's part of the story" bs. Every FF game focused on versatility, do not permantely segregate and then hyper define how each lil nuance works when the player 9/10 won't care but just wants to kill the baddie.

4. Save Serah! - No Fuc( Serah and her tiny virgin womanhood! I want to know the lore of FFXIII which is the flagship of FNC. Why should I give 2 cents to some character I can't even play when the different Gods and fal'Cie are completely unexplored? Knock off the damn reports SE, I play games to play games not read a 3 poorly written paragraph on who Fell Linzei or w/e.

1) Gemcrim, when I saw the names you were quoting, I read intently to see if anything of mine was quotes so I could giggle at the "Posted By:" part. Those really made me laugh. As well, I agree heavily on the tedium. Also, I myself am somewhat old school (hey, I did say I hated VII the most, didn't I? And I mostly like IX since it's a tribute to old school, what with some of the names and places being flat out references to FF2, and need I say "Classic black mage?"

2) Wan, I get used to the fact that Square can't tell the lore in Final Fantasy in a satisfactory way years ago. I mean hey, when they need to release books with the stuff they left out of the games and their plots that they shouldn't have, there's a major problem! (I am of course referring to the Ultimania, which fans love to quote to "correct" me when I point out plotholes, when quite honestly, if Square is too goddamn lazy to include that stuff in game, I'm too lazy to give their extra side info a snowball's chance in hell.

You're right about the pretty graphics but sadly, that seems to be ALL Square cares about most of the time, as far as FF is concerned. You don't need to look any farther than how long the animation sequences are for many summons and spells in FFVII, VIII, IX, XII, and XIII. I mean hey, seriously, I realize I'm not taking damage while this is going on, but in the same amount of time it took this one attack, I could have landed 6-30 normal hits, and that uber move is like only 2x stronger than the normal attacks, if that?

I can take the animation and pacing of battles. I just cannot stand dumb ass design flaws (don't even get me started on FFXIV when the only saving grace that game has is the best score out of the entire ff franchise.) Especially when the company did do these excellent ideas before in previous FF games and other titles.

XIII had some cool ideas on a skill based battle over stats (which I've always hated the typical broken leveling system.) Again, weird design flaws in both story, gameplay and concept.

Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut... @_@

No, this is something I feel should be addressed here as I've yet to see a true debate on the game in this location, this was the perfect opportunity to do so. Though to be quite honest I would have just kept to my one line if I didn't see one of the things I had quoted being said because unlike all else that was said this sticks out most to me as it seems to be forcing an opinion on others rather than simply stating one. If I am also guilty of this and looking at what I wrote I don't get the impression that I am I do still apologize for it.

Chaos Legion was (by far) one of the worst games I've ever played. The combat was terrible, there were to many plot-holes (there was no backstory to any of the characters) and the villian was a Sephiroth rip-off

Wow with the FF debating, even though it was obvious, and almost even "forced" to have in a topic like this. Well, i'm a HUGE Final Fantasy fan, though i REALLY dislike both FFXII and XIII, and after those 2-3 walls of text larger than mine's, i guess i don't really need to type my own and repeat stuff to express why i don't like them myself. Would be easier and faster to just quote the posts and end with a "I agree".

Anyways, as much as anyone might dislike any Final Fantasy games, they're FAR from being the WORST games ever. Hey, at least those games are complete enough that you can play them, "enjoy" them, and finish them without any random glitch forcing you to restart everything, unable to walk through places without getting stuck, or suddenly seeing your character transform into some odd marble of pixels X_X
And there is a game i've played where you can suffer from all that and more...Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly. Spyro: The Dragon was a GREAT game, Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage was EVEN BETTER, and one of the best plataform games i played for the PS1. Spyro: The Year of the Dragon was meh and already felt somewhat forced, but it was very enjoyable and you couldn't complain (yet not admire). But Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly isn't even a COMPLETE game, the developers didn't finish the coding for it!! DX It's PAINFUL to survive a single level with insane loading times, getting stuck into some place, supposedly activating something but finding out a door didn't open and you can no longer advance, or simply having the floor suddenly disappear just like that. And if such obvious programming errors aren't enough to call this the worst game i've ever played, it has a HORRIBLE PLOT (suddenly a villian from an old game revives reappears and steals dragonflies...and that's the end of the plot, no kidding), HORRIBLE GRAPHICS (if the graphic glitches aren't problem enough, the game itself looks like a bad port of a PS2 game into a N64...even Spyro: The Dragon had better graphics), HORRIBLE MUSIC (sounds very closely to a hungry meowing cat looped each 10 seconds), and HORRIBLE game mechanics as well...You have several abilities you'll never use, and the "power ups" you learn through the game are pointless (half considering that you don't even need them due to glitches that'll allow you to go through walls and stuff without intending to). There's really NOTHING good i can say about this game, and no game series, not even Final Fantasy or Sonic, have met such a horrible death to their legacy as Spyro. Hell, you can't even call this a "videogame"...more like some random homework a random highschooler did for his Computer Science class where they were learning how to program in Ruby.

... Wow. TheSorrow, that makes me sad to hear. Not that I've bothered to even try playing any Spyro games after the initial trilogy, but still. Poor Spyro. :<

Anime Monkey wrote:... Wow. TheSorrow, that makes me sad to hear. Not that I've bothered to even try playing any Spyro games after the initial trilogy, but still. Poor Spyro. :<

No videogame series, no matter how good or bad, loved or hated it originally was, deserves to suffer like Spyro did with Enter the Dragonfly. No matter what happened with the original series or original creators, no one should turn the main character from a cool little dragon that does funny remarks and burns asses, to a little helpless lizard with its legs twisted backwards, trapped into an invisible wall or an endless "Loading..." screen. I can still hear poor Spyro begging for mercy and a proper eternal rest as i played through that game TT^TT

And i actually finished that game...well, technically. It's not any long and it has like 15 levels only (and only one boss...or two)...but as soon as i started the final battle, i was suddenly thrown back to the very beginning with my level progress completely glitched, like i'd have several levels locked, but with the gems/dragonflies of those levels unlocked already, or some of the locked levels are normally unlocked since the very beginning...And i think i was stuck on a wall too ;/

That sounds like a GREAT game to LP and feel accomplished about finishing due to everything that will screw you over.

Do it do it do it! :T

TheSorrow wrote:

Anime Monkey wrote:... Wow. TheSorrow, that makes me sad to hear. Not that I've bothered to even try playing any Spyro games after the initial trilogy, but still. Poor Spyro. :<

No videogame series, no matter how good or bad, loved or hated it originally was, deserves to suffer like Spyro did with Enter the Dragonfly. No matter what happened with the original series or original creators, no one should turn the main character from a cool little dragon that does funny remarks and burns asses, to a little helpless lizard with its legs twisted backwards, trapped into an invisible wall or an endless "Loading..." screen. I can still hear poor Spyro begging for mercy and a proper eternal rest as i played through that game TT^TT

And i actually finished that game...well, technically. It's not any long and it has like 15 levels only (and only one boss...or two)...but as soon as i started the final battle, i was suddenly thrown back to the very beginning with my level progress completely glitched, like i'd have several levels locked, but with the gems/dragonflies of those levels unlocked already, or some of the locked levels are normally unlocked since the very beginning...And i think i was stuck on a wall too ;/

Both Spyro The Dragon and Crash Bandicoot had suffered when they made the leap to PS2. All of a sudden, both series seemed to have lost a huge amount of luster and content after the platform jump into the next generation. Most, if not, ALL PS2 Crash games were horrid, with the worst being Crash of the Titans to me, and Sorrow already covered Spyro: Enter The Dragonfly perfectly. These two characters may have had the best games on the PS1, but PS2 was an entirely different fairy tale. :/

Gemcrim wrote:That sounds like a GREAT game to LP and feel accomplished about finishing due to everything that will screw you over.

Do it do it do it! :T

Nothnx, i'll save the painimean-honor to whoever wishes to take it. They can consider it a gift if they want to D8 lol

There's actually a LP of it on YouTube, made by some random guy who loves to record himself and rant about the same thing at the start of every LP video. I warn you though, that LP can be as annoying, frustrating and boring to watch as it is to actually play the game...it consists of like 30+ videos, each one about 8 min. average, and MOST of the videos content are either loading screens, Spyro getting stuck out of nowhere, or the game messing up at some part and the player not knowing WTF to do until he gives up and restarts the level or something. I only watched some parts of several videos and was quickly reminded of how horrible it was to play this game. Also, i find it fun how the guy initially claims that the LP will be of a 100% playthrough, and then changes it to 82% or so midway through. Yeah, asking to finish this game 100% is like asking to finish that E.T. game as a speedrun with no losses or restarts >_>; ...Well, maybe not THAT bad, but it's still quite impossible to finish completely. Not without several restarts and hoping you can finish a level without any problem bad enough to force a restart/abort.

_Tri-edge_ wrote:Both Spyro The Dragon and Crash Bandicoot had suffered when they made the leap to PS2. All of a sudden, both series seemed to have lost a huge amount of luster and content after the platform jump into the next generation. Most, if not, ALL PS2 Crash games were horrid, with the worst being Crash of the Titans to me, and Sorrow already covered Spyro: Enter The Dragonfly perfectly. These two characters may have had the best games on the PS1, but PS2 was an entirely different fairy tale. :/

And that's all because Insomniac and Naughty Dog, the original developers of the games, dropped Spyro and Crash Bandicoot as the PS1 era ended. And i don't complain about that, they were definetly the best plataform games for the PS1 and should've stayed there, and both companies moved on with the new eras, and their new projects (Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank for the PS2, Resistance and Uncharted for the PS3) and they've been all very great and successful games. Giving a proper rest to Crash and Spyro wasn't bad....What was bad about it is that some random stupid companies dug them out of their graves, messed with their remains as they wished, and released them out to the public as if they were still alive, and the series were still going on...but what they did with them was something far worse than death itself .___.

And yeah, Crash Bandicoot has gone through a horrible life on the PS2 just like Spyro, however, if we're to compare them, it's fate didn't go THAT bad. Sure, the following games are so very awful...from personal experience, Twinsanity was ridiculous and destroyed so many characters and certain plot details, Nitro Kart was the puked-out version of Crash Team Racing (which was AWESOME), and Wrath of Cortex was actually DECENT enough and could be considered as a "Crash Bandicoot 4", but it would still be the worst of the series. But at the very least, they were COMPLETE and PLAYABLE. Enter the Dragonfly, due to being rushed and the programmers probably joking around and never intending to make it a REAL PS2 game, is some...thing with ONLY 9 levels, ONLY one single boss, and everything else i've said before. For a general gamer, it's one of the worst games ever made that fails at every detail existing. For an old Spyro fan, it's such a troll face with a huge middle finger at our gaming childhood X_x

TheSorrow wrote:as soon as i started the final battle, i was suddenly thrown back to the very beginning with my level progress completely glitched, like i'd have several levels locked, but with the gems/dragonflies of those levels unlocked already, or some of the locked levels are normally unlocked since the very beginning...And i think i was stuck on a wall too ;/

Something similar happened to me everytime I tried to finish Year of the Dragon (which is about 11 times or so).

During the last boss, I suddenly got back to the start of first world (yeah, on the middle of the fight, Spyro just jumped by himself and started flying back to the first world) and lost ALL my dragon eggs. This can be very frustrating when you are a completionist =/


Also, I don't dare touch any Spyro or Crash games after they died. Really, CTR was my fav game on the ps1, and Spyro 2 was one of the best too. I just don't want my good memories to be destroyed by those ridiculous games for the ps2 (I did play Crash Nitro Kart, but I found it worse than CTR and dropped it after playing for 1 hour or so)

TheSorrow wrote: LP of it on YouTube

The day I watch a whole LP from there is the day I give .hack//Link a glowing review. ;T