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You're pointing out things we already know. :p

I was just stating the fact that we honestly don't know either way whether weapons are often afflicted by AIDA. But I digress. :\

It's pretty obvious that Lost Weapons could be affected by AIDA, if Avatars can be manipulated as well. They're "beyond the system", yes, but so is AIDA, hence why it can affect pretty much everything in The World. I think it's kind of unfair to AIDA to argue that it's impossible for it to affect Lost Weapons :p

I think the reason Ovan is never seen with his Lost Weapon equipped is because the weapon leeches the Avatar's power (in a sense), and Ovan couldn't really use the Lost Weapon without having to unseal Tri-Edge. Walking around with an AIDA arm growing out of your shoulder would've made it kind of obvious that you're infected. :\

Of course, that point was made earlier in the thread, so meh.

GyppyGirl2021 wrote:It's pretty obvious that Lost Weapons could be affected by AIDA, if Avatars can be manipulated as well. They're "beyond the system", yes, but so is AIDA, hence why it can affect pretty much everything in The World. I think it's kind of unfair to AIDA to argue that it's impossible for it to affect Lost Weapons :p

I think the reason Ovan is never seen with his Lost Weapon equipped is because the weapon leeches the Avatar's power (in a sense), and Ovan couldn't really use the Lost Weapon without having to unseal Tri-Edge. Walking around with an AIDA arm growing out of your shoulder would've made it kind of obvious that you're infected. :\

Of course, that point was made earlier in the thread, so meh.

That's what I am saying. They could be affected by AIDA, that's one theory I have, the other was that he cannot use it due to the fact he has a AIDA arm. After all remember that the AIDA in his arm is basically the AIDA in charge you could say. Its the strongest of all the other AIDA because its been with a Epitaph User for so long, so it could've gotten strong enough to repel the Lost Weapon.

At any rate, the simplest explanation is that they took his Lost Weapon away to avoid false advertising. (if you saw it there alongside Sakubo's and Yata's, you might make assumptions and be disappointed) By the time they came up with Lost Weapons, he already had a painstakingly-designed bayonet of choice, so they never felt like deploying it. There's no way they came up with some sort of complicated AIDA-related backstory to it, and if they did it would be in BLACK...

Kuukai wrote:At any rate, the simplest explanation is that they took his Lost Weapon away to avoid false advertising. (if you saw it there alongside Sakubo's and Yata's, you might make assumptions and be disappointed)

But it'd make his sacrifice all the more surprising, and we know from experience that these guys are total trolls.

ZelkovatheWise wrote:Though I will admit that AT might be right and it isn't possible to corrupt a Lost Weapon. But I have to say this, if its possible to corrupt the wielder of a lost weapon as it has been shown (Haseo was beginning to become corrupted in volume 3 and he had a lost weapon, Atoli had hers in volume 2 and she was corrupted 100%), than can we say its not possible.

Atoli wasn't necessarily using her Lost Weapon, since it's you who should give it to her on Reminisce. Also, Haseo was the one almost infected on Redemption, not his weapon. If the Lost Weapons can't be infected, it doesn't mean that the player cannot (though it wouldn't make sense, since it would mean that the weapons are more protected than the Epitaph Users themselves :P).

ZelkovatheWise wrote:Also as for Sirius, if I remember correctly he is a tribal grappler and therefore you wouldn't see his weapons anyways so you cannot say it wasnt corrupted.

The fact that he's a Tribal Grappler doesn't mean you cannot see his weapon. I fought him a couple days ago just for the kicks and his weapons are some sorta claw thingies that come from his wrist.

i know I'm late in the conversation but I wanna say some things

The Lost Weapons are nothing more than mere weapons, they are only special because the makers of the game cannot tamper with them

Not true dude, except for the "can't be tampered with" part

Kuukai said this a few months ago, the Lost Weapons used to be data apart of the Epitaphs that were broken off as a result post-RA Plan failure ( i think I have that right). Just parts of the Epitaph that were broken off after the RA Plan failure that found themselves in the game and were protected by game itself, as everyone already knows. So no, they are more than just mere weapons.

LOL, I used to use the analogy that they are the "weapons" of the Epitaphs.

Haseo was beginning to become corrupted in volume 3 and he had a lost weapon

You NEVER see Haseo use his Lost Weapon at all anywhere in GU. Espically in the cut-scenes. The scene with the AIDA in Redemption, Haseo used his Scythe Shouxiao. The default Scythe you get when you reach the final Job Extension. In every cut-scene where they showed Haseo using a scythe he always used that one. The whole Lost Weapon fights in Caerleon Medb, is completely optional in Volume 3.

Atoli had hers in volume 2 and she was corrupted 100%

Same thing with Atoli, in every cut-scene where they showed her weapon, it showed the Spell Xialin. The default weapon for Atoli. They showed it when she and Haseo fought Sakaki and in the Sage Palace Tournament with Taihaku( if you focus on her). Again, the Lost Weapon quest is completely optional and had has nothing to do with the story itself.

AuraTwilight wrote:But it'd make his sacrifice all the more surprising, and we know from experience that these guys are total trolls.

I think they have sadistic days and benevolent days... Otherwise Ovan and Aina would totally be in Bikman's list...

Keyaki wrote:Kuukai said this a few months ago, the Lost Weapons used to be data apart of the Epitaphs that were broken off as a result post-RA Plan failure ( i think I have that right). Just parts of the Epitaph that were broken off after the RA Plan failure that found themselves in the game and were protected by game itself, as everyone already knows. So no, they are more than just mere weapons.

Yep, that's written in pretty much anything that mentions lost weapons. I think I agree with you that one could be infected, though. Maxwell was infected, Innis was infected. Innis data being used as a weapon could probably be infected. I really don't think this is the explanation for Ovan though, just interesting conjecture.

I should probably clarify that when I said an AIDA probably couldn't corrupt a Lost Weapon, I was speaking in terms of experience moreso than capability. They have little to compare a Lost Weapon to, so they're have to jerry-rig something until they figured out how **** worked. Same as with all their original subjects, it would seem.

Well, Innis + Maxwell + hive consciousness probably equals enough experience. It's true that Innis seemed to be a breakthrough for them, though. And who the hell knows how Maxwell was created, they could have been unwilling... The experience was there, though...

And who the hell knows how Maxwell was created

What do you mean? Taihaku got Maxwell from The Forest of Pain right?

It's true that Innis seemed to be a breakthrough for them

But AIDA also infected Gorre and Tarvos as well, how is Innis a 'breakthrough'?

Didn't AIDA manipulate Innis long before it awakened, in ways that its own user couldn't?

Tarvos was already awakened at the time of infection, and Gorre wasn't really utilized in any special ways before awakening.

Kuukai wrote:Well, Innis + Maxwell + hive consciousness probably equals enough experience. It's true that Innis seemed to be a breakthrough for them, though. And who the hell knows how Maxwell was created, they could have been unwilling... The experience was there, though...

Yes, of course at that point. The original context was describing Ovan's Lost Weapon,which is several months before the AIDA ever reach that point.

GyppyGirl2021 wrote:Didn't AIDA manipulate Innis long before it awakened, in ways that its own user couldn't?

Tarvos was already awakened at the time of infection, and Gorre wasn't really utilized in any special ways before awakening.

Okay stop right there! You are wrong about Gorre. The fact that there were 2 personalities was enough to say that Gorre was awakened. Now people, allow me to tell you something. Just because an epitaph is awakened does not mean that the epitaph user can use it or even knows that it is awakened and usable. First off, they have shown us really one person who actually awakened it and he had to be put in a emotional state that was extreme for it to be used, a.k.a. Haseo (not as in they can only use it when they are at high emotionally points, I mean like every time we notice they are awakened is when the person is feeling some emotion but feeling it more than average).

Also I thought they showed the current scythe you had equipped at the time, sorry if I missed noticing the differences. An still he would have the Lost Weapon in his items (and don't you dare say "but he could have had it in storage", this goes for Atoli as well, the game assumes you automatically gave them all their Lost Weapons).

p.s. If I didn't reply to some topics brought up since my last post that you guys said I am sorry. I am not the kind of person who can deal with like more than a certain amount of something. I could only handle 2 topics that people said. I don't tend to bring up others that are mentioned other than the two I replied to because I don't want to be called on double posting as I am working towards something on this site.

ZelkovatheWise wrote:Okay stop right there! You are wrong about Gorre. The fact that there were 2 personalities was enough to say that Gorre was awakened. Now people, allow me to tell you something. Just because an epitaph is awakened does not mean that the epitaph user can use it or even knows that it is awakened and usable. First off, they have shown us really one person who actually awakened it and he had to be put in a emotional state that was extreme for it to be used, a.k.a. Haseo (not as in they can only use it when they are at high emotionally points, I mean like every time we notice they are awakened is when the person is feeling some emotion but feeling it more than average).

Alright. I'll have to disagree with this. Why? Pi already mentioned in //Roots about her first time awakening Tarvos. She said she suffered from an emotional shock, and she had awakened, plus Yata went on an obessive rant, causing him to crack, leading up to his awakening. So technically, we've seen more and knew more than just Haseo's awakening w/o AIDA's interference. Sakubo however was affected by AIDA during her encounter with Haseo pre-awakening. AIDA forced her and Bo to come out for the first time, just like with Atoli and Innis. They both weren't awakened before then. Just because they could switch personalities doesn't mean they were already awakened.

ZelkovatheWise wrote:Also I thought they showed the current scythe you had equipped at the time, sorry if I missed noticing the differences. An still he would have the Lost Weapon in his items (and don't you dare say "but he could have had it in storage", this goes for Atoli as well, the game assumes you automatically gave them all their Lost Weapons).

Lost Weapons were merely just bonuses in the games. They really have nothing to do with the story other than the fact that they're mainifestations of the the power of the phases that were "lost" during the R.A. Plan. Face it. They have no importance whatsoever.

An still he would have the Lost Weapon in his items

the game assumes you automatically gave them all their Lost Weapons).

HOW? Like I said, there is nowhere in Redemption or in Reminisce that states that you are required to obtain the Lost Weapons and maxing them out. Its completely optional.

Lost Weapons were merely just bonuses in the games. They really have nothing to do with the story other than the fact that they're mainifestations of the the power of the phases that were "lost" during the R.A. Plan. Face it. They have no importance whatsoever.

Thank you.

Keyaki wrote:

And who the hell knows how Maxwell was created

What do you mean? Taihaku got Maxwell from The Forest of Pain right?

But why was Harald giving out AIDA-infected swords? An early plan by Ovan? By the AIDA? The senility of a malfunctioning Harald? Some greater truth? This has never been explained. There are theories, but no one knows for sure.

Keyaki wrote:But AIDA also infected Gorre and Tarvos as well, how is Innis a 'breakthrough'?

In both those cases, iirc, the Avatars themselves were not infected, just the user. There was a deal of hubbub during Atoli's fight when they actually did this. I wasn't even thinking about when the AIDA stole Atoli's Epitaph, but again in that case they were using it like a player does rather than infecting it directly, I think.

AuraTwilight wrote:Yes, of course at that point. The original context was describing Ovan's Lost Weapon,which is several months before the AIDA ever reach that point.

Yeah, I think we can both agree on tossing out this theory, then...

ZelkovatheWise wrote:Okay stop right there! You are wrong about Gorre. The fact that there were 2 personalities was enough to say that Gorre was awakened.

You're confusing being awakened with "being a chosen one." On some level Bo had 2 personalities before playing the game.

ZelkovatheWise wrote:Now people, allow me to tell you something. Just because an epitaph is awakened does not mean that the epitaph user can use it or even knows that it is awakened and usable.

This is true, as seen in Rebirth. We see Haseo awaken Skeith before he can use it, and Yata even says he's awakened iirc. But I'm pretty sure everyone else is just referring to the unnamed state where the Avatar is readily usable...

I always figured that there were different "levels" of awakening, as in Haseo was partially awakened but couldn't use his Avatar until the Demon Palace tournament...

But why was Harald giving out AIDA-infected swords? An early plan by Ovan? By the AIDA? The senility of a malfunctioning Harald? Some greater truth? This has never been explained. There are theories, but no one knows for sure.

Wait, Wait. What makes you think Herald gave out an AIDA-infected weapon? I thought Sakaki infected Taihaku's Maxwell at the end of Reminisce....

On some level Bo had 2 personalities before playing the game.

IIRC, There were "2" reasons for Bo having 2 personalities. One was b/c Sakura was stillborn and her genes and cells "merged" with Bo's before he was born, sort-of like Sakura being inside Bo, litteraly. And the other reason we all know.

Yata even says he's awakened iirc.

I don't remember that, I just recently beat Redemption for a 2nd time and I still don't re-call Yata saying that.

IIRC, There were "2" reasons for Bo having 2 personalities. One was b/c Sakura was stillborn and her genes and cells "merged" with Bo's before he was born, sort-of like Sakura being inside Bo, litteraly. And the other reason we all know.

Or, more simply, we can go with the canon explanation more in line with how it works in the real world. I think I remember reading that Iori got a lot of flack from his parents. **** like "I would've rather it had been Sakura, not you." It wouldn't be surprising if Iori eventually decided to grant his mother's wish subconsciously and "become" Sakura, expressing this through the game.

Keyaki wrote:IIRC, There were "2" reasons for Bo having 2 personalities. One was b/c Sakura was stillborn and her genes and cells "merged" with Bo's before he was born, sort-of like Sakura being inside Bo, litteraly. And the other reason we all know.

...lolwut? Was this ever offered up as a canonical explanation? It makes no sense.