W.B. Yeats Poem, The Second Coming

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Post by Dragoon2044 »

Here's my take on roles in reference to religion.

I could see Herold Hoerwick(human) as just the programmer. Morganna is the god of the world and Aura would be the 'daughter of god'. Lycoris could best fit as Aura 'at birth'. The daughter born to 'ai herold' and emma.

On the 12th hour, the daughter of god would make a physical presence in 'the world'. Theoretically, this could explain why Morganna does not have a physical existence in 'the world' because she is omnipresent. Anywhere and everywhere.

The phases might act as eight plagues brought on by the war between the monsters and the sprites(root town backstory mentioned in ai buster).

Cubia...uh.. devils advocate. Since Morganna does not have a physical existence within 'the world', Cubia might be a vessel to enforce morganna's will more directly.

Not saying anything here is truth or not. Just concept and something to think about.

On a sidenote, I've noticed bits and pieces from the epitaph while playing the four games that i've not seen anywhere else.
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Post by Grey »

Ziegfried wrote:Hey...if the programmer of a game is the god of the world they create, then wouldn't Herald Hoerwick be God in The World and Aura be the Jesus of The World as well? But...what would that make Lycoris? Zefie? Rin? Any Number of the countless NPCs that developed concioussness...?


My head hurts now....thought to much...
NPCs could be the Angels. First came the angels, then came the humans. First came the NPCs, then came the players, get it?
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Post by Ziegfried »

Well, I'm not saying anything too religious, I was just talking about that poem by W.B. Yeats, how it spole about the second coming of Christ. Compared to ".hack//" the second coming of Christ could mean the second coming of Aura, or...something like that...
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Post by Dragoon2044 »

Or the second coming of the wave.. :|
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Post by Ziegfried »

Hopefully NOT! That would definitly suck! (for the characters, I mean)
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Harold=Abraham

Morganna=God

Aura=Jesus (Then later God.)

Dot Hackers= Apostles

NPC's=The Animals that Adam reign over.

Lycoris=Lilith

Albireo=Adam

Zefie=Eve

Players=Humans, duh >_>

Phases=Nephilim

Tsukasa=Moses

Kite=Solomon

Cubia=The Serpent.

Shugo=Elijah

Helba=Noah

CC Corp=The Devil's Mark

Tri-Edge=The Antichrist.

There. Most of these should be obvious.
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Post by Ziegfried »

I didn't understand any of that, could you please clarify?
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Post by Dragoon2044 »

I'm not sure they're roles were replaced by anyone. No matter what happens on the surface I believe thier roles remain the same.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

It was symbolism, Dragoon XDXD Anyway, I'll explain.
Harold=Abraham
Harold is Abraham because he's the prophet that gets everything going. He's the one who introduces God to the World, and he's the one who prophecizes the coming of Jesus, who's supposed to be descended down from him in the long run.
Morganna=God
I shouldn't need to explain this one whatsoever.
Aura=Jesus (Then later God.)
Aura is the daughter of God, so she would be Jesus. She fulfills this role by aiming to save everyone in the World (From comas) and there's a few scenes comparable to the crucifixions. After Morganna's defeat, Aura becomes God. I guess in this sense Morganna can also be compared to the Demiurge, a false god.
Dot Hackers= Apostles
The Dot Hackers follow Aura, who is Jesus, just like the 12 Apostles did.
NPC's=The Animals that Adam reign over.
And God said "You shall reign over these creatures, and give them names so they can be your companions." But Adam can only be satisfied with another human.
Lycoris=Lilith
Lycoris is the first AI in the long series of test subjects for Aura. Unfortunately, she failed/refused, and ran away. The Net Slum AI's I guess can be Lilim.
Albireo=Adam
The First Man to see anything wrong with the World.
Zefie=Eve
The first female AI created by God/Aura, modeled after Lycoris/Lilith.
Players=Humans, duh >_>
This one should be easy.
Phases=Nephilim
The Nephilim were the descendents of angels and mortals, causing them to be disfigured. The Phases are a product of Harold, a Mortal, and Morganna, the divine, creating the disfigured Phases that are corrupted from their main purpose of finding data.
Tsukasa=Moses
Tsukasa Is/awakened the Key of the Twilight, and thusly opened the path to God/Aura.
Kite=Solomon
He uses the Bracelet, which could be compared to Solomon's seal, and tames/destroys the demons Morganna puts in his path. Also, like King Solomon, Kite was anointed by God/Aura.
Cubia=The Serpent.
The wicked creature that tries to keep mankind/Kite from God/Aura by causing them to fall/die.
Shugo=Elijah
Elijah was a necromancer in the Bible. Shugo is Kite "ressurected."
Helba=Noah
Helba is definately Noah, not only by deporting the Dot Hackers from Net Slum at the end of Sign, but also by saving all the Net Slum AI's and hosting the Omega Server on her own server. In the end, she is responsible for delivering everyone to safety after the Wave/Flood.
CC Corp=The Devil's Mark
The evil organization that brands the Mark of the Beast on the players' souls by killing those who don't cooperate. They are, indirectly, responsible for the World's end and will probably cause Aura to force her hand and perform the Second Coming.
Tri-Edge=The Antichrist.
This takes some theorizing. The Antichrist was an evil being that was supposed to bring about the World's end, which Tri-Edge seems to be doing. The Antichrist can only be defeated by the Second Coming of Christ, which I think is going to be Haseo and co. freeing Aura from whatever prison she's behind.
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Post by BithTheBlack »

wow thats a real interesting tidbit i like those identities
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Post by Legendary_Tri_Edge »

Those are good ideas for what the people are in .hack, but Aura can only be in one place at the same time. In //A.I.buster, they said Morganna was God. God however, as they said in //SIGN, will be ("The World" doesn't exist as of 2005) everywhere in "The World" and yet nowhere. But, Aura appeared in //LOTT, and she was in ONE spot. So she couldn't become God, just like Jesus could never become God, or take his place, as some other, as I like to call them, the Crazy Christian Coalition, (or KKK). I am a Christian.

I also think, but have very little info to support this, but I don't think Tri-Edge should be considered as the Anti-Christ, because I believe he will be sent to combat the evil in "The World", because whoever sent him will be doing it for the good of "The World". Also earlier in one of the prieviews for //G.U., Haseo is seen killing someone. So Tri-Edge was probably sent to end the PK'ing rampage brought on by the Arvak, the Ogmios, and who else is involved with player killing.

Aside from that, everything looks in fine working order. Or at least I couldn't find
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Post by AuraTwilight »

hose are good ideas for what the people are in .hack, but Aura can only be in one place at the same time. In //A.I.buster, they said Morganna was God. God however, as they said in //SIGN, will be ("The World" doesn't exist as of 2005) everywhere in "The World" and yet nowhere. But, Aura appeared in //LOTT, and she was in ONE spot. So she couldn't become God, just like Jesus could never become God, or take his place, as some other, as I like to call them, the Crazy Christian Coalition, (or KKK). I am a Christian.
Your Christian faith, with all due respect, has no relevency. The great thing about literary symbolism is that you don't have to stay exact to the interpretation you're drawing. Morganna was God in AI Buster, yes, but she can be interpretated as the Gnostic Demi-Urge, or Half Creator that claims to be God, but really isn't. Then Aura comes as an intermediary between man and machine, just like the Great Unknowable sent Jesus to be a link between man and divine. In that sense, Aura can be seen as the True God taking back what's rightfully hers.
I also think, but have very little info to support this, but I don't think Tri-Edge should be considered as the Anti-Christ, because I believe he will be sent to combat the evil in "The World", because whoever sent him will be doing it for the good of "The World". Also earlier in one of the prieviews for //G.U., Haseo is seen killing someone. So Tri-Edge was probably sent to end the PK'ing rampage brought on by the Arvak, the Ogmios, and who else is involved with player killing.
Tri-Edge is clearly evil. Come ON. It's clear as day. What evil is present in the World besides Tri-Edge? Tri-Edge attacks all players discriminately, and it's a fact that Haseo sought out Tri-Edge instead of the other way around. Also, I doubt some ingame guild has the ability to hack and create an AI to help them wipe out PKing, which, in of itself, is not wrong, but merely another way of playing the game.
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Post by Legendary_Tri_Edge »

I get it now...

I only said I was a Christian so people wouldn't think I am against all Christians.

And how do you know that Haseo sought out Tri-Edge???
I have heard that Tri-Edge has been player killing, but only on the message boards. Nowhere else. Would someone please tell me where you got that idea!!!!

Harold could have seen what is happening to "The World" and created Tri-Edge, or done something else to reinitiate the wave, like making another Morganna, so she could try to fix it. I don't really think he wanted "Fragment" to evolve into a rampage of warring clans (I may have over estimated, but according to dothackers.net the clans affect all of "The World") and he may have also put something else into the case of the basics of "Fragment" that was transfered into "The World"

Also the new main characters in G.U. may also be some of the Apostles.

Tri-Edge could also be the Serpent, but only if someone else got the ability to Data Drain, Yin-Yang, in that case, you would probably be another player hearing about what else is happening in "The World"
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Post by AuraTwilight »

I only said I was a Christian so people wouldn't think I am against all Christians.
Paranoid?
And how do you know that Haseo sought out Tri-Edge???
Tri-Edge Data Drained one of Haseo's best friends, Shino. What would you do in his place? Revenge.
I have heard that Tri-Edge has been player killing, but only on the message boards. Nowhere else. Would someone please tell me where you got that idea!!!!
Japanese site, trailers, etc.
Harold could have seen what is happening to "The World" and created Tri-Edge, or done something else to reinitiate the wave, like making another Morganna, so she could try to fix it. I don't really think he wanted "Fragment" to evolve into a rampage of warring clans (I may have over estimated, but according to dothackers.net the clans affect all of "The World") and he may have also put something else into the case of the basics of "Fragment" that was transfered into "The World"
No offense, but that's a really crappy theory. How could Harold coincidently create an AI that looks just like a player that won't join the World for atleast a few years? Making another Morganna would make things worse, plus it just doesn't make sense. Three, Harold isn't FATE (From Chrono Cross.) He can't see the future. Finally, Harold doesn't give a rat's ass about the game as long as Aura is alright. (Plus, I'm sure Morganna's malfunctioning is a bigger priority than gameplay.)
Also the new main characters in G.U. may also be some of the Apostles.
Or Nephilim, if you interpret the Phases as Grigori. :P
Tri-Edge could also be the Serpent, but only if someone else got the ability to Data Drain, Yin-Yang, in that case, you would probably be another player hearing about what else is happening in "The World"
Possible
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Post by Sarah »

This is What I've found on this one...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~**
"W. B. Yeats, "The Second Coming"(1)
Turning and turning in the widening gyre (2)
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi (3)
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. (4)
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born? (5)

1. According to Matthew 24: 29-44, the Second Coming of Christ—the parousia—will come after the "tribulation." Look at Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Daniel 2, 7, 9, and 12, and the Book of Revelation for related source-material. Disillusioned by Ireland’s continued civil strife, Yeats saw his time as the end of another historical cycle. In A Vision (1937) Yeats describes his view of history as dependent on cycles of about 2,000 years; the birth of Christ had ended one cycle of Greco-Roman civilization, and now the Christian cycle seemed near an end, to be followed by an antithetical cycle, ominous it is portents.

2. Literally, the widening spiral of a falcon’s flight. "Gyre" is Yeats’ term for a cycle of history, which he diagramed in terms of a series of interpenetrating cones.

* from the introductory note to Cuala Press edition of Michael Robartes and the Dancer, the volume of poems in which "The Second Coming" first appeared. Yeats is here describing the historical process as it is symbolized by the double cones or gyres:

The end of an age, which always receives the revelation of the character of the next age, is represented by the coming of one gyre to its place of greatest expansion and of the other to that of its greatest contraction. At the present moment the life gyre is sweeping outward, unlike that before the birth of Christ which was narrowing, and has almost reached its greatest expansion. The revelation which approaches will, however, take its character from the contrary movement of the interior gyre. All our scientific, democratic, fact-accumulating, heterogenous civilization belongs to the outward gyre and prepare not the continuance of itself but the revelation as in a lightning flash, though in a flash that will not strike only in one place, and will for a time be constantly repeated, of the civilization that must slowly take its place.

3. Or "anima mundi," the spirit of the world; Yeats considered the universal consciousness or memory a fund from which poets drew images and symbols.

4. Consider the image of the vultures spiraling down over the "corpse" in Matthew 24.

5. Yeats later wrote that the "brazen winged beast ... described in my poem, 'The Second Coming,'" should be "associated with laughing, ecstatic destruction. Our civilization was about to reverse itself, or some new civilization about to be born from all that age has rejected ...; because we had worshipped a single god it would worship many."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~**

But yeah...so what do you think this is to .Hack//G.U. or you can try to look more Related ones that might match the game...but yeah this is my Info on it...
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Post by AuraTwilight »

NICE research Sarah! :)
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Post by Cless »

They do base a lot of their concepts off of things old and new. I like how research is useful to findout out background of .Hack// series.
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THINK!!

Post by Talvos »

Remember in the Epitaph of Twilight :



"When you think you have escaped, Talvos exists
To destroy those with his exceeding cruelty
Upon violent requital, only to remain is the void, the vacant darkness
is the harbringer that Copernic is to appear."

So the second coming thing could be true and its talking about Talvos and Copernic appering out of the void and destroying 'The World'. So mabey the void is not gone for ever and even after the system reboot it still exists. Hint the title Ressurection.

Sry bout spelling
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Post by Dragoon2044 »

Rei_654 wrote:I am very sorry if someone has said this before....but 'The World', at least in my interpretation; is unable to function unless all of the original data in the 'Blackbox' folder remain intact. I am so sorry if this is obvious....but if this is true; then no matter how much of the add-on data(characters, upgrades, etc.) that is lost; if 'The World' still functions, then all of that original data remains. I am so very sorry....but that is what I believe.
Thats exactly right. Programming engineers found mysterious files and a folder that was unaccessable. When they attempted to delete the files, certain variables ceased to function so they were forced to restore the black box.
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Exactly

Post by Talvos »

That is possibly why the wave/void exists still.
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