Am I the only one who hates the new art style?

[Advent_Winter]

Superflat is a guy trying to make money, it's not really talked about in Japan. This isn't that, though it's also very postmodern. It's pure organic, Studio 4℃-esque animation. I don't think it's supposed to be "ugly" so much as emotionally expressive, solid animation that differs wildly in construction and pose from mainstream anime, much like Sadamoto's 2000's work (FLCL and Diebuster). The point here is the warping of realism to add some charisma to the scene, kind of like the way Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck move and pose in totally unrealistic, but visually appealing, ways. It's something sorely lacking from most anime, not that I'm really complaining, but it's always nice to see something different. No, they don't look like they normally do, but looking at it from a different perspective they move and express much more fluidly than they would in a Bee Train opening. If you were to look at it based solely on that, it's suddenly the rest of .hack animation that's the "ugly" one. This is animation, why should everything be about the still image? It's not anti-moe, plenty of the characters actually look pretty good, it kinda depends on the angle and how they feel. AIKA looks perfect. Read John Kricfalusi's blog, he has loads to say about this sort of thing. He'd probably hate this opening actually, but that's more likely because he's incredibly biased against anime, or maybe because it's not quite surreal enough...

The subject matter really fits the abstract art style too. As Tokio walks around he sees line between the virtual and the real start to blend. Pi and Atoli are cosplayers in Akiba, Blackrose is on the track team, and (my personal favorite) the famous "Hachiko" statue in central Tokyo is covered in chains.... I think it's probably also symbolism for how the game is mobile, i myself ended up at all of these places after buying the game...

Welcome back Kuukai. Wait, so some of those places in the intro, were real places?

[Kuukai]

Thanks! I'm easing into commenting because I still don't know what I think about Link, and also I'm avoiding spoilers. I love some things, hate some things, and some things make my head hurt and I don't want to think about them. I'm not done either, so really anything could happen...

Yeah, most of them. I assume the school is a fake future school, but yeah, that was the intention, Akihabara and Shibuya are both instantly recognizable to pretty much any Japanese player.

[Tolby]

Yes, you are. Because of what I said. About defending it and showing that is is an art style. Showing the art for what it is. You don't have to like it, thats is what I'm saying that no one is saying. However if you want your opinion to be taken seriously know what you are talking about. In our eyes you are going into the art museum and saying "All I see is lines and naked people, this is ****, wheres my deviantart japanimation!?"

While one should know what's going on with the art style, if they want to talk **** about it or praise it I'm not going to give them a damn history lecture to change their minds or even inform them, they can see it as they like even if it's something that irks me and they remain uneducated twits.

Well, I'm not giving a history lecture. I wasn't the one posting that list. Though a history sentence or two wouldn't hurt. Then again, this is the internet, I probably should take the let them "remain uneducated twits" route more often.

I wasn't even referring to Link as a game... like at all, and then a bunch of stuff because this is what you thought I meant.

Neither was I. I was using the shitty game metaphor. Which is why I said "shitty art" after it each time to make it more clear. Guess I failed.

I'm just going toward free choice, and the more selfish desire to say "I don't like this, now stop suppressing me from saying it's **** and setting up barriers for people who want to say the same."

Thats fine, but if you have the right to attack something I enjoy, I feel I have the right to defend it.

No, I think it's bad because I don't like it, just like you think it's good because you like it. Also, if I purely liked what was standard I'd sing praises of Haruhi and Elfen Lied across the land.

I'm not specifically talking about your reasons for not liking it, but the majority of people who I see post about it. Comparing it to a six year old's drawing. Thats extremely offensive to the artist. I don't care if you don't like it. If all you do is look at it and say "I don't find it aesthetically pleasing, I don't like it". Cool. I'm talking about the people insulting it to such a high degree based purely on what is popular, ignorance and what they think they can get people on the internet to laugh at.

I say that if they're aware of the artstyle and hate it, fine. If they're unaware of the artstyle and also hate it, fine.

Agreed, but when you insult it then I defend it.

Really if everyone that didn't know the art style loved it, would you be telling them "YOU MUST FIRST BE AWARE OF SUPERFLAT IF YOU WANT TO LIKE THIS **** BRO!"? And by "pretty pictures" I'm being subjective on what a person likes.

No, but if they started flapping their mouths that it was good because of some stupid reason, I would point that out as well. Honestly, I don't think I once said superflat ever in my entire life, besides just now. I did enjoy him educating people, if he was right. Which doesn't seem like it, according to Kuukai. I'm more backing the effort that hes trying to explain why it isn't a sixth grader's art homework.


Also Kuukai. That was Mimiru, not Blackrose. How dare you.

[Kuukai]

I was going memory, but totally failed...

Oh, on a sidenote, I went to Studio 4℃'s booth at the Tokyo Anime Fair and they were doing a 3d art exhibition from a wide range of artists. It had nothing to do with this but it was pretty cool. Gonzo's 3d Blassreiter short blew them out of the water, though.

[Gemcrim]

Well, I'm not giving a history lecture. I wasn't the one posting that list. Though a history sentence or two wouldn't hurt. Then again, this is the internet, I probably should take the let them "remain uneducated twits" route more often.

I would certainly be easier at least.

Neither was I. I was using the shitty game metaphor. Which is why I said "shitty art" after it each time to make it more clear. Guess I failed.

And you proceeded to continue rambling making it almost impossible to find the actual meaning that didn't sound like whining about the views of others. Yeah, you did fail.

Thats fine, but if you have the right to attack something I enjoy, I feel I have the right to defend it.

Fair enough.

I'm not specifically talking about your reasons for not liking it, but the majority of people who I see post about it. Comparing it to a six year old's drawing. Thats extremely offensive to the artist.

Though annoying they have the right to say so. But I'd rather see different methods of defense rather than "artstyle" alone, maybe there is none, but that's just me. Actually there is one, good explanations regarding the content like what Kuukai has given. While I'm still not fond of the intro, what he described has made it seemingly likable.

I don't care if you don't like it. If all you do is look at it and say "I don't find it aesthetically pleasing, I don't like it". Cool. I'm talking about the people insulting it to such a high degree based purely on what is popular, ignorance and what they think they can get people on the internet to laugh at.

They can do it just as you insult them for it. I just really find "it's good art and good art style" without adequate explanation to be a bit weak. See previous quote response.

Agreed, but when you insult it then I defend it.

Fair enough.

No, but if they started flapping their mouths that it was good because of some stupid reason, I would point that out as well. Honestly, I don't think I once said superflat ever in my entire life, besides just now. I did enjoy him educating people, if he was right. Which doesn't seem like it, according to Kuukai. I'm more backing the effort that hes trying to explain why it isn't a sixth grader's art homework.

Yeah, see my edit on acknowledging this and previous quote response. More or less, Kuukai did it better.

In summation, defend it but give good reason. Just as attackers SHOULD have good reason behind theirs one I have not seen in any, including mine other than "we don't like it." Truly I did like what Kuukai has stated, I still hold my stance but that was a job well done.

Also I'd like to say that it's great that unlike me you have sooo much respect as to quote the entirety of my statements without alteration...

I wasn't even referring to Link as a game... like at all, and then a bunch of stuff because this is what you thought I meant.

Wait a sec.

[Tolby]

And you proceeded to continue rambling making it almost impossible to find the actual meaning that didn't sound like whining about the views of others. Yeah, you did fail.

Fine. Let me make it simple. The opening = Nintendo games. The people who generally insult it = PS3 fanboys. They attack it for stupid reasons, saying that Nintendo games are bad because they aren't Halo or Gears of War style.

They can do it just as you insult them for it. I just really find "it's good art and good art style" without adequate explanation to be a bit weak. See previous quote response.

Yes, they can. I can do it just as they insult the opening. Kind of walking in circles. I can understand that, but then again when they insult they don't give good reason either. They don't give good reasons why its bad art. They don't like the look, fine. I do like the look, fine. If thats all that was said, fine. The insults is what makes me defend it. I'll only defend on the level that is being attacked on. No need to oh say.. give a history lecture... to internet folk that are insulting it on such a stupid level. The fact that they are insulting it on that stupid level is what annoys me. If they gave good reasons, I wouldn't say anything.

Also I'd like to say that it's great that unlike me you have sooo much respect as to quote the entirety of my statements without alteration...

lol. Sorry if I don't feel like writing an essay in a post on a game/anime/etc. forum. Its just the rest of that wasn't necessary because you misunderstood me, however I wanted you to know that I indeed read it and wasn't just trying to pick and choose points to attack you on. All other statements I left out that you had made I felt were irrelevant because they resolved themselves or where repeated at least once. Like in the post. I didn't feel the need to respond to the "give a reason" more than once.

[Gemcrim]

Fine. Let me make it simple. The opening = Nintendo games. The people who generally insult it = PS3 fanboys. They attack it for stupid reasons, saying that Nintendo games are bad because they aren't Halo or Gears of War style.

That works and would have been better to say outright.

Yes, they can. I can do it just as they insult the opening. Kind of walking in circles. I can understand that, but then again when they insult they don't give good reason either. They don't give good reasons why its bad art. They don't like the look, fine. I do like the look, fine. If thats all that was said, fine. The insults is what makes me defend it. I'll only defend on the level that is being attacked on. No need to oh say.. give a history lecture... to internet folk.

In summation, defend it but give good reason. Just as attackers SHOULD have good reason behind theirs one I have not seen in any, including mine other than "we don't like it." Truly I did like what Kuukai has stated, I still hold my stance but that was a job well done.

Read.
Also I was more referring to Juno on the history, why are you continuing to bring this up? I mean your next quote is more or less all about not continuing to argue on old ****. But I suppose you could count it as unresolved. However I wasn't explicit there, you have my apologies. *hugs n stuff ~<3* :v

lol. Sorry if I don't feel like writing an essay in a post on a game/anime/etc. forum. Its just the rest of that wasn't necessary because you misunderstood me, however I wanted you to know that I indeed read it and wasn't just trying to pick and choose points to attack you on. All other statements I left out that you had made I felt were irrelevant because they resolved themselves or where repeated at least once. Like in the post. I didn't feel the need to respond to the "give a reason" more than once.

Anyway I'll stop here. I don't want to ruin the topic. If you wish to continue PM me. I'd have done so but you don't seem to have this enabled?

[Tolby]

Read.

I did read, and I did see that. However, that was after I had wrote that response to an previous quote about generally the same thing, and I figured that the sentence should stay in to back up the rest of my response of

I'll only defend on the level that is being attacked on.

Oh and yea, I pissed of someone a few years ago and they put me in a PM timeout. I don't know if they forgot to take it off or if I left that big of an impression but.. yea.

[Tolby]

Fine, change it to MGS and MAG. Or to Xbox. Either way I meant the style or killing and guns and all that, you should get the point.. but yea, I screwed up. Sue me. I mean it's not like I said they confirmed .hack titles for the PS3 or something stupid like that.

[GyppyGirl2021]

Yeah, not too many people have died in dothack, but there have been a few cases where people have *almost* died due to the game and they probably would've if it weren't for other circumstances (Alkaid, for example, although in her case I almost wish she had... *cough).

[GyppyGirl2021]

I guess Matsuyama wanted to make Alkaid Haseo's partner in the end after all... which really annoys me for reasons I won't go into further here ._.

[Gemcrim]

See, Gem. This is the level of retardation I spoke of. Demotivators and all.

I'm more or less numb when it comes to that. Like everything gets a demotivator anyway, I don't see much point in thinking about it. Even in your sarcasm you brought one up in a later post stooping down to the level of stupidity you so hate. This isn't a criticism on you, it's more or less just saying it hardly effects me but I see where you're coming from.

Blackrose looks out of place, but thats because of her skin color, hair color and body armor. None of the other characters were really shown interacting with the real world, not to her extent. Like I said before, Orca a little as well, but hes on screen for like 2 seconds.

Now you are still pointing out flaws, or things you'd find ugly, while others including myself did not do so (even though this more or less IS what we're referring to, we just didn't elaborate), I can say these were things that bothered me a little. I can't call it bad art, but from my own viewpoint it's just something I can't stand. Now I don't want to be overly insulting but I will use an example:

This inconsequential triangle headed boy (left of Tokio), though completely irrelevant, I can't help but put focus on him just as I do other characters, and it's not something I want to do, I can't look at the well drawn background. This boy could be drawn well in this particular artstyle, but if I ignore artstyle and look at this for just what it is, a picture, I just can't find it visually pleasing possibly because I'm focusing on something I just don't want to focus on. I want to see the animation asa whole for what it is objectively but this is almost impossible for me. This is why I am fond of Kuukai's defense, it brings some meaning it shows I'm looking at something worthwhile, but even now I find it hard to have this as the primary focus when I'm looking at something I just can't come to like.

I will say I am not fond of what Zero is doing. He dislikes it as I do, possibly for the same reasons but he's outright insulting it. You Tolby, have come halfway with me and I think I've come to as well. We can recognize this is good art and have differing views, save for your outburst stooping to Zero's level, I can respect you and say that you win this argument. If only because I see now that I shouldn't defend what was done here just now. I'm hypocritical, I've admitted this tons of times before, but now I see that I should hold my view on this matter save for certain actions that have been taken by those who say "there was no work done." There was work done, I may not appreciate it but I can admit it, I don't have to like it, but I can admit it. I'm not going to say this was half assed even if I appreciate something more.

In all I can say that what I hope for from Studio 4C isn't what they've done with Link, but what they've done with some of their other work such as First Squad. That is something I can appreciate, and this may contribute some disappointment I've had with Link's opening. I am more or less just saying what I have before, but in all I see your points.

[Kuukai]

I guess Matsuyama wanted to make Alkaid Haseo's partner in the end after all... which really annoys me for reasons I won't go into further here ._.

I don't even know yet about in the game, but I know that in the manga this pairing was the result of Haseo being changed, it's not '"natural" and Haseo and Atoli probably end up together when you fix him. It probably has nothing to do with Matsuyama, a lot of fans wanted to see those two together and since .hack is ending why not pair evil Haseo with an evil Yowkow? You probably leave the era more or less how it's supposed to be, though. So far Link is pretty good about drastically changing major things that aren't important, while retaining even the smallest details that are important. For example, Tokio uses information from Saika to try and help Tsukasa save his grunty, but they still fail. Tokio being around (also just what you might call the "lens of Link"--where R:1 doesn't look anything like R:1) changes all sorts of things, sometimes in ways painful to think about, but the outcomes of important events never seem to be altered. Probably because all you're really trying to do is set them straight...