protection of characters

Post by **Kuukai** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:52 pm

If she smelled it on Kite wouldn't it be incredibly redundant to tell everyone else they smell like it too?

Mia's not an Epitaph wielder in the slightest sense, she's just an example of an Epitaph-PC, a player character with phase data inside. No control abilities...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:52 pm

Well, I assumed the terms were synonymous. But whatever. Epitaph PC is what I meant then.

If she smelled it on Kite wouldn't it be incredibly redundant to tell everyone else they smell like it too?

Well, she does.

Post by **Kuukai** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:05 pm

Er, I meant Shugo, sorry, stupid slip... But if she told everyone, why did you say:

AuraTwilight wrote:Then I'm sure Zefie would've commented on Rena smelling like the Bracelet or something because the smell rubbed off on her, but that's not the case.

?

Xu Yuan · Post by **Xu Yuan** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:55 pm

Actually I believe there was something different from the first Twilight Bracelet to the second, the need for protection that was on the first bracelet, may have no longer had any need to "latch" onto other member's of the bracelet's holder party, as Aura was the Goddess of The World, she knew that no such thing as a Protect break, Data Drain could have happened. Therefore the need for protection was nonexistant.

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:11 pm

But in Udeden Shugo's party is still undeletable. And apparently, Kazu might be too. (Though that might be because he's on Blackroses Member Address list, and Blackrose is on Kite's, but that's really going out there.)

Xu Yuan · Post by **Xu Yuan** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:22 pm

This always confused me... to ban a character they would need to go into the game and forcefully delete them in the old system correct?

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:48 pm

Post by **Kuukai** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:28 am

Now I'm really confused... ^^;; You're saying that because Rena doesn't smell like the bracelet, then the scent Mia smelled on Blackrose has to have been an active piece of data from the bracelet, not just "residue", but furthermore Rena has the same "protection" as Blackrose, yet Zefie doesn't smell it, negating all reasoning above?

Does this make any sense? It totally contradicts itself...

And is the protection in Udeden not a direct result of Aura or Zefie? Kite's whole party got data-drained, despite any supposed "protection"...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:57 am

No, no, no.

Now I'm really confused... ^^;; You're saying that because Rena doesn't smell like the bracelet, then the scent Mia smelled on Blackrose has to have been an active piece of data from the bracelet, not just "residue", but furthermore Rena has the same "protection" as Blackrose, yet Zefie doesn't smell it, negating all reasoning above?

I'm SAYING that Blackrose's Bracelet smell implies that something about the Bracelet is effecting her, and that Zefie doesn't smell the Bracelet even though she has the same protection, which means that for whatever reason, Mia and Zefie have different senses of smell.

Post by **Kuukai** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:26 am

Ok, so then how did you deduce that the smell of the bracelet on Blackrose means it's affecting her? Is it not possible that it just means she was around the bracelet?

epitaph_wavemaster · Post by **epitaph_wavemaster** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:22 am

Kuukai wrote:And is the protection in Udeden not a direct result of Aura or Zefie? Kite's whole party got data-drained, despite any supposed "protection"...

Do you mean at the time the bracelet was destroyed? Wouldn't that explain it?

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:45 am

Ok, so then how did you deduce that the smell of the bracelet on Blackrose means it's affecting her? Is it not possible that it just means she was around the bracelet?

Well, Rena and co were protected by Shugo's Bracelet, so by sheer logic, I'd assume Kite offered the same protection by Occam's Razor. If something official says this isn't the case, fine. But nothing official contradicts it, so there.

Xu Yuan · Post by **Xu Yuan** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:06 pm

I've seen the "Occam's Razor" term used once before somewhere, what does that mean exactly?

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:22 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_Razor

Post by **Kuukai** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:50 pm

epitaph_wavemaster wrote:Do you mean at the time the bracelet was destroyed? Wouldn't that explain it?

Ah, but when Corbenik data drains you during gameplay, the same thing that happens during any other boss's data drain occurs (i.e. just status effects). Wouldn't that imply that whatever "protection" there is has nothing to do with the bracelet, and in fact the real reason is, as Piroshi said, that Kite and friends are never protect-broken in battle?

AuraTwilight wrote:Well, Rena and co were protected by Shugo's Bracelet, so by sheer logic, I'd assume Kite offered the same protection by Occam's Razor. If something official says this isn't the case, fine. But nothing official contradicts it, so there.

Actually, Occam's razor says that they were never data drained successfully because they were never protect broken. It's what your eyes tell you, it makes sense, it's that simple. You don't need a more complicated concept to explain it. I guess it only gets confusing when you take Udeden into consideration... (I still need to read it ^^; ) Do they really try deleting random other members of Shugo's party? And is it not just some sort of protection bestowed directly by Aura?

Xu Yuan · Post by **Xu Yuan** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:50 pm

Alright so what you're saying is by simplicities sake Kite would undoubtedly have the same protection given to his party member's as Shugo did, correct?

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:08 pm

Ah, but when Corbenik data drains you during gameplay, the same thing that happens during any other boss's data drain occurs (i.e. just status effects). Wouldn't that imply that whatever "protection" there is has nothing to do with the bracelet, and in fact the real reason is, as Piroshi said, that Kite and friends are never protect-broken in battle?

Piroshi said it? Well then I concede. You're right.

Actually, Occam's razor says that they were never data drained successfully because they were never protect broken. It's what your eyes tell you, it makes sense, it's that simple. You don't need a more complicated concept to explain it. I guess it only gets confusing when you take Udeden into consideration... (I still need to read it ^^; ) Do they really try deleting random other members of Shugo's party? And is it not just some sort of protection bestowed directly by Aura?

Well, when they capture Shugo and co, the Admins tell Kamui that Shugo AND HIS PARTY are undeletable. When Kazu meets Shugo and co and Kamui threatens to delete him, Kazu, who isn't in Shugo's party, states "Go ahead and delete me. IF YOU CAN, that is."

Post by **Kuukai** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:28 am

He did, in the "Tell me Please!" part... He said that "If you had been protect broken, things would have been different."

Umm, what parts (please in "X pages after Y login" format)? I have the manga, I just haven't gotten around to reading it... I could check what it says in the original...

AuraTwilight · Post by **AuraTwilight** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:15 am

Well, it's volume 3. And y'know, his important quotes are a bit scattered, so I'd just read the entire Login 16 until Kaz shuts up.

Post by **Kuukai** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:41 pm

Maybe he means that he's going to put up a fight and not just stand and be deleted (since admins actually need to hit him with a "delete" command, right?)... Or Helba, or something... He's hardly anyone's party member though, right? When do they tell Kamui Shugo's party can't be deleted?