Is the anime worth watching?

Discuss the second anime series: .hack//legend of the twilight and .hack//legend of the twilight manga

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Kuukai
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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:59 am

Female in the anime, male in the manga.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kaori » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:41 am

Kuukai wrote:Female in the anime, male in the manga.
isnt it the other way aound?

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:20 am

Nope. This is another one of those things that was never explicitly stated until Link, and the dominant theory was wrong as hell.

Probably the main problem was that we all decided to assume Let's Meet Offline was part of the anime canon, even though it was part of .hack//Integration and nothing really said that. Take that away and there isn't actually all that much in the anime to make you think Horaru's a boy, while there's actually a lot implied in the manga and Firefly. But the argument probably would have never gone away if Link hadn't been neurotically detailed enough to slap a big "MAN (woman in the anime)" sticker on Hotaru.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Gemcrim » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:06 pm

If I recall wasn't the let's meet offline where Shugo runs into male Hotaru in the restroom and then finds out they're male? How would it be based off the manga if everyone knows who Sanjuro is, who save for a possible look alike in the background didn't appear in the manga at all (especially with Shugo referring to Sanjuro as Master which could only happen in anime continuity)?

Now word of warning I'm going to place a link to a part of this from youtube, moderate this if need be as this is likely against the rules but I'm only posting it to prove a point, this entire portion of the special states all of what I mentioned at least what was subbed assuming it's all correct:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xljf_euw ... re=related

With all this reference to the anime thanks to Sanjuro it's hard to say Hotaru was female in the anime, they even state the PC for Hotaru was male as well. Again this may be mistranslated subtitles but it contradicts what you've stated.

Now I know Sanjuro is spoken of in Firefly, but did Shugo refer to him as master or even meet him? I'm pretty sure he didn't and will reread now to check and edit as needed.

Edit: Just reread Shugo wasn't involved at all in the short story, so there's nothing in manga continuity to support that Shugo and Sanjuro ever met or had a master and student relationship. Only the anime has this (unless mentioned in another brief story), let's meet offline makes use of this, so it seems to strongly relate to anime continuity. Thus anime Hotaru as the very least is male provided the subs are correct, even then if they weren't it'd be awkward that Shugo found a woman while in the restroom.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:47 pm

I never said it was based off the manga, either. Just that it was an assumption that it was part of the anime continuity. One that I myself made. You can prove that it was a reasonable assumption at the time and help me feel better about my mistake, but that's it. It doesn't have to be part of the anime continuity, unless you know something I don't, like it being wrapped with a sticker that said "fully continuous with the hit anime series!" For all we know, Sanjuro and Shugo did meet in the manga timeline, saying they couldn't possibly have is another assumption, but that's not the point. The reason I mentioned the audio drama was just to explain what happened to completely reverse the accepted answer among Western fans from the actual one.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Gemcrim » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:55 pm

I was mainly going by this:
Kaori wrote: BTW what is hotaru's real gender?! Thats a mystery thats been making my head hurt for a long time already!
Kuukai wrote:Female in the anime, male in the manga.
And mainly focusing on your statements about her anime gender, not ont he manga. What I did talk about in regards to the manga was Sanjuro. You did state however the anime portion which I admittedly mostly glossed over.
Kaori wrote: isnt it the other way aound?
Kuukai wrote:Nope. This is another one of those things that was never explicitly stated until Link, and the dominant theory was wrong as hell.

Probably the main problem was that we all decided to assume Let's Meet Offline was part of the anime canon, even though it was part of .hack//Integration and nothing really said that. Take that away and there isn't actually all that much in the anime to make you think Horaru's a boy, while there's actually a lot implied in the manga and Firefly. But the argument probably would have never gone away if Link hadn't been neurotically detailed enough to slap a big "MAN (woman in the anime)" sticker on Hotaru.
However I still go by the statements I made in regards to the anime, and relating this to the anime largely due to Sanjuro I still say it's very hard to claim Hotaru in this version to be female. Could this instead be related to the mang and off panel Shugo and Sanjuro had a (hot) Master-Student(servant) relationship? Maybe, I highly doubt it. I'm just saying this is still very suspect.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Well, like I said, I'm not saying the drama's manga canon either. It could just be some writers doing their own thing. It's an audio drama. Even First Login has a few continuity issues... (And I just recently heard the radio drama for Mewtwo Strikes Back... gaaah the fourth wall...) It could be manga canon, I mean apparently Haseo can be Sora, but the important thing here is just that it isn't anime canon. We have Hotaru's gender in writing, separated by anime and manga continuity. That's about as definite as you can get. There's nothing in the anime itself that's suspicious with regards to Hotaru's gender, Epitaph says Hotaru's a girl in the anime, so that means the audio drama, which never really said what it was and isn't referred to anywhere else, doesn't belong to the anime as many of us had assumed.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Gemcrim » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:21 pm

Then if source material states that to be so I will concede to it, regardless of how absurd the whole of this situation is. I suppose what matters is that in the end canon (manga) Hotaru is male and that's what matters most. I do still say the audio drama is more likely related to the anime, but without anything stating it's canon or to what it belongs to that is up in the air I will agree to this if only because the guidebook states nothing on it as you say.

In the end I believe we can truly agree on one thing though: this whole gender ambiguity for Hotaru has been a poorly handled and largely pointless mess.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:57 pm

There was actually almost no question about Hotaru's canon gender among Japanese fans. Nothing ever said "HOTARU'S A MAN", but in Firefly for instance Sanjuro is amazed Hotaru is 13 since he still sounds like a kid and Hotaru says it's because his voice hasn't changed yet. In the English version this was mistranslated as voice-changing software, but the word used in Japanese only refers to puberty.

And there were a bunch of little things like that, a panel in the back of the manga saying Hotaru had the same PC type as Elk, etc.

But for some reason .hack//analysis listed Hotaru as "female", which I agree was a terrible way to handle the situation. (Although this actually makes sense now, if that was true for the anime, because analysis sorta merged the two versions. It said Balmung was dating Kamui, etc. I actually mentioned this exact possibility that somehow that information is from the anime on the wiki and everyone thought I was some sort of insane anti-occam trap-lover...) It's actually kind of amazing that now, like 7 years later, they actually took the time to get their facts so perfectly straight... And that's one of the best things about this generation.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kaori » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:57 am

so uh is hotaru a "she" or a "he"?

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:47 pm

Nothing's changed from what I said. Officially Hotaru is a male in canon and a female in the anime. So, a "he." They generally avoided pronouns though.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kaori » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:13 am

I still want "proof" if you know what I mean.
>3>

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Manga » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:37 pm

yes it's worth watching the anime cause you can see it live! and hear music

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kaori » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:39 am

Manga wrote:yes it's worth watching the anime cause you can see it live! and hear music
what do you mean live?

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:20 pm

Kaori wrote:I still want "proof" if you know what I mean.
>3>
It says it in Epitaph of Old Testament and in Link itself. I have no idea what you mean...
Kaori wrote:
Manga wrote:yes it's worth watching the anime cause you can see it live! and hear music
what do you mean live?
As opposed to "dead" written media. Acting, movement.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Kaori » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 pm

Kuukai wrote:Nothing's changed from what I said. Officially Hotaru is a male in canon and a female in the anime. So, a "he." They generally avoided pronouns though.
you know if he's a male he ought to have a uh.... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by (Phantom) Thief » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:37 pm

He ought to have an official article proving that he is none other than the such? But seriously no more...

Image

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by -Aeon- » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:40 pm

So it's a lolicon trap?

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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by hidora » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:36 am

-Aeon- wrote:So it's a lolicon trap?
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Re: Is the anime worth watching?

Post by Tolby » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:46 am

Trap, not a trap. Cannon, not cannon. Must I remind you of a bit of manga wisdom? "Who cares as long as (s)he's cute!"

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