Ginkan = Lucifer

[AuraTwilight]

I mean srshly. Both my mother and I noticed this while watching the "Declaration" episode today (Yes, my mom watches anime with me. Go to hell) and when Silver Knight's eyes were glowing red and his shadow was looming over, I couldn't help but think. "Damn, Ginkan is a Lucifer parallel."

I mean, he has the look, but that's superficial. Here's another point for serious analysis: He was originally the most beloved of God/Subaru's Knights/Angels, along with the most beautiful/loyal/powerful whatever. That is until he got prideful, challenged the law of God/Subaru, and caused internal conflict in the Knights/Heavenly Host. So God disbanded the Knights, and Ginkan and some renegades made a new faction. A faction of DEMONZ lol.

[Airon]

but in the end ginkan was good... lucifer is still in hell last i checked. i think it's more of a fallen angel refference than one directed at lucifer, damn idea though.

[AuraTwilight]

It could link to Origen's theory of Apocatastasis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apokatastasis

[Ginken]

you know aura is right the fact he has many demonic attribnutes does givwe him a refrence to lucifer or as Seithecs said a fallen angel

And as my username and other info on here descrribes ginkan is my favoerite guy

[Kouen]

Yeah Ginkan does manage to redeem himself by the end of Sign. But it does make sense how Ginkan was full of pride after being Subaru's right hand man for so long. That and he's a 20 something year old working in a video rental store <_<.

[Ginken]

yeah i hate it when they have a disturbing or stupid fact for such a Cool character *ginkan in .hack//sign's case*

[Airon]

it's there to show you how an online game can be so unreal, a brave knight is actually...a video game rental store clerk.

[Osamu]

I mean srshly. Both my mother and I noticed this while watching the "Declaration" episode today (Yes, my mom watches anime with me. Go to hell) and when Silver Knight's eyes were glowing red and his shadow was looming over, I couldn't help but think. "Damn, Ginkan is a Lucifer parallel."

I mean, he has the look, but that's superficial. Here's another point for serious analysis: He was originally the most beloved of God/Subaru's Knights/Angels, along with the most beautiful/loyal/powerful whatever. That is until he got prideful, challenged the law of God/Subaru, and caused internal conflict in the Knights/Heavenly Host. So God disbanded the Knights, and Ginkan and some renegades made a new faction. A faction of DEMONZ lol.

I thought you were like 30, o.0. But if you are, o.0 0.o o.0 0.o o.0 0.o

Anyways...

What you're saying sorta makes since. But Tsukasa's guardian data drained him. If (Warning: Religion Talk) Eve had a guardian, she wouldn't of taken the apple and given it to Adam, because her guardian would've sensed his evill-ness and therefor destroyed/beaten the crap out of/etc. etc. him. (Kinda makes you think, huh?)

[S1lentOp]

Reasons for why this doesn't work:

1. Subaru disbanded the Knights; as in they were completely disassembled. When Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels in heaven rebelled against God, God banished those 1/3 to the earth and left the other group of 2/3 intact and in heaven. He did not disband the angels, He simply punished the rebellious ones.

2. The Silver knight didn't try and overthrow Subaru from power. Lucifer did try to take God's place in heaven. Did you ever wonder what he was prideful of in the first place? He felt that he was greater than God and thus rallied angels loyal to him to rebel against God.

3. The Silver Knight, following the disbanding, still felt a sense of loyalty to Subaru. Lucifer did not have any loyalty to God whatsoever. In fact, he hates God tremendously.

4. The Silver Knight served as protection for Subaru. God by no means needed Lucifer's protection.

5. The Silver Knight was prideful and questioned Subaru's ability to lead the Knights and felt she couldn't enforce the "justice" that Silver Knight had in mind. He didn't contradict her for sovereign power of the knights. Lucifer, however, did rebel against God for sovereignty.

6. Subaru didn't disband the knights to punish them.

7. The Silver Knight redeems himself at the end of the series. Lucifer, on the other hand, will be destroyed by God in the "end times."

Your theory shows some minor similarities at best, but when you really think about it he's just another typical example of how a person who is given power can let it go to his head. I seriously doubt there was any intentional parallels between Silver Knight and Lucifer.

[AuraTwilight]

I thought you were like 30, o.0. But if you are, o.0 0.o o.0 0.o o.0 0.o

I'm like, 16. Gawd.

1. Subaru disbanded the Knights; as in they were completely disassembled. When Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels in heaven rebelled against God, God banished those 1/3 to the earth and left the other group of 2/3 intact and in heaven. He did not disband the angels, He simply punished the rebellious ones.

Yea, but in Subaru's case they were ALL rebellious.

2. The Silver knight didn't try and overthrow Subaru from power. Lucifer did try to take God's place in heaven. Did you ever wonder what he was prideful of in the first place? He felt that he was greater than God and thus rallied angels loyal to him to rebel against God.

Um...yea, he did. Did you miss that whole dialogue? He was working behind her back and trying to take her place.

3. The Silver Knight, following the disbanding, still felt a sense of loyalty to Subaru. Lucifer did not have any loyalty to God whatsoever. In fact, he hates God tremendously.

Good point. Though some literature paints Lucifer in a sympathetic light who wanted to return to God/Me.

4. The Silver Knight served as protection for Subaru. God by no means needed Lucifer's protection.

They both served their leadersand were in the highest positions aside from God/Subaru.

5. The Silver Knight was prideful and questioned Subaru's ability to lead the Knights and felt she couldn't enforce the "justice" that Silver Knight had in mind. He didn't contradict her for sovereign power of the knights. Lucifer, however, did rebel against God for sovereignty.

Silver Knight was trying to appeal to CC Corp for Subaru's password.

6. Subaru didn't disband the knights to punish them.

So what?

7. The Silver Knight redeems himself at the end of the series. Lucifer, on the other hand, will be destroyed by God in the "end times."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apokatastasis LOL, I already addressed this. Kthx.

Your theory shows some minor similarities at best, but when you really think about it he's just another typical example of how a person who is given power can let it go to his head. I seriously doubt there was any intentional parallels between Silver Knight and Lucifer.

Yea, because glowing eyes and horns totally isn't alluding to something.

[S1lentOp]

Yea, but in Subaru's case they were ALL rebellious.

Well then there's another key difference between the two stories. Not all of the angels were rebellious. In fact most weren't.

Good point. Though some literature paints Lucifer in a sympathetic light who wanted to return to God/Me.

Yeah, and LaVeyan Satanism says he's merely a symbol of human desire and indulgence. So which picture are you going to go with? Since Christian theology is the most common reference nowadays to him, I'll use it as reference. In Christian theology Lucifer was called "Satan" which means "The Great Rival." Lucifer, or Satan, is the most powerful of the fallen angels who's objective is to overthrow God from power and to rebel against Him by corrupting His creation (e.g. Humans). He in no instance inside of Christian theology shows any kind of remorse or willingness to return to God.

6. Subaru didn't disband the knights to punish them.

So what?

Well, it makes a huge difference as to whether or not this little parallel is true or not. The whole point of God banishing the angels to the earth was to punish them for rebelling against Him and going against His will, thus sinning. Subaru, however, did not disband the knights to punish them. Therefore the intention of both actions are completely different.

7. The Silver Knight redeems himself at the end of the series. Lucifer, on the other hand, will be destroyed by God in the "end times."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apokatastasis LOL, I already addressed this. Kthx.

Either the wikipedia article was carelessly written or Origen made a grave mistake. First of all, devils are not "moral creatures." That's why they're devils... Secondly, devils, because they are immoral, will not see the Kingdom of Heaven because it is reserved for the righteous (or the elect).

If the wikipedia article is true, and the theory is including devils are "moral creatures," than Origen has made a critical mistake and this is why.

Revelations 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


What the verse in Corinthians, on which he bases his theory, is talking about is how because of Christ's resurrection and triumph over death, the elect are also resurrected in new, "imperishable" bodies. These imperishable bodies are different from the ones we are in now, obviously, but they won't be given to the elect until the resurrection in the end times when the elect will be resurrect first and the perishing, second. At this point the Son will have given His authority (given by the Father during His reign) back to the Father (God) and once that has happened all things, including Christ, will be "under" the Father.

There's also the fact that demons even shudder at the name of God. (James 2:19)

There are also angels who are elect (1 Timothy 5:21) which also means there are those who are not elect.

Not to mention in Matthew 12, Jesus makes it very clear that demons (or devils) have nothing to do with Him.

There are more reasons, but for the purposes of this thread I'll simply leave it at that. Revelations is not a fun book to explain though, which is another reason why I'd rather not have to write a novel-post about it. So now that it's cleared up, lets move on to other points.

Yea, because glowing eyes and horns totally isn't alluding to something.

No. Not really.

To keep this on topic. I say these things because I maintain that this parallel is incoherent.

[AuraTwilight]

Well then there's another key difference between the two stories. Not all of the angels were rebellious. In fact most weren't.

You realize that religious metaphors are never exact? Look at Xenosaga, my God.

Yeah, and LaVeyan Satanism says he's merely a symbol of human desire and indulgence. So which picture are you going to go with? Since Christian theology is the most common reference nowadays to him, I'll use it as reference. In Christian theology Lucifer was called "Satan" which means "The Great Rival." Lucifer, or Satan, is the most powerful of the fallen angels who's objective is to overthrow God from power and to rebel against Him by corrupting His creation (e.g. Humans). He in no instance inside of Christian theology shows any kind of remorse or willingness to return to God.

el oh el Gnostic founding fathers of the church plz.

Well, it makes a huge difference as to whether or not this little parallel is true or not. The whole point of God banishing the angels to the earth was to punish them for rebelling against Him and going against His will, thus sinning. Subaru, however, did not disband the knights to punish them. Therefore the intention of both actions are completely different.

There's a big difference between "True" and "Accurate", you know. Just because they didn't go to every painstaking detail to get it right doesn't mean they didn't put it there. Evangelion's a good example. Do you know any Angels trying to wipe out mankind? What about giant whale angels? We all know Adam didn't biblically give birth to the Angels, but that doesn't change the fact that they're biblical allusions. The Japanese don't give a **** about accuracy to western myth. They just think it's cool, just like the west f*cks up Eastern mythology because it's cool.

Either the wikipedia article was carelessly written or Origen made a grave mistake. First of all, devils are not "moral creatures." That's why they're devils... Secondly, devils, because they are immoral, will not see the Kingdom of Heaven because it is reserved for the righteous (or the elect).

If the wikipedia article is true, and the theory is including devils are "moral creatures," than Origen has made a critical mistake and this is why.

Revelations 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


What the verse in Corinthians, on which he bases his theory, is talking about is how because of Christ's resurrection and triumph over death, the elect are also resurrected in new, "imperishable" bodies. These imperishable bodies are different from the ones we are in now, obviously, but they won't be given to the elect until the resurrection in the end times when the elect will be resurrect first and the perishing, second. At this point the Son will have given His authority (given by the Father during His reign) back to the Father (God) and once that has happened all things, including Christ, will be "under" the Father.

There's also the fact that demons even shudder at the name of God. (James 2:19)

There are also angels who are elect (1 Timothy 5:21) which also means there are those who are not elect.

Not to mention in Matthew 12, Jesus makes it very clear that demons (or devils) have nothing to do with Him.

There are more reasons, but for the purposes of this thread I'll simply leave it at that. Revelations is not a fun book to explain though, which is another reason why I'd rather not have to write a novel-post about it. So now that it's cleared up, lets move on to other points.

The Book of Revelations was written like atleast 200 years after Origen's death.

[Aera]

thats an interesting point but i dont think it is something to be taken seriously.

Okay he looks funky but all Crimson Knights did, and his glowy red eyes were to set him apart from the others. And he just didnt understand the true purpose of the Crimson Knights to preserve Order in the World. I admit the theory is a good one, but seems more like coincedence to me. Someone has to play the misunderstanding good guy.

[S1lentOp]

You realize that religious metaphors are never exact? Look at Xenosaga, my God.

Well, it's a rather large inaccuracy in this "metaphor." Comparing it to other inaccurate "metaphors" doesn't make it any more valid either.

el oh el Gnostic founding fathers of the church plz.

What? The "gnostic" founding fathers of the church? Do you mean the gnostic church?

There's a big difference between "True" and "Accurate", you know. Just because they didn't go to every painstaking detail to get it right doesn't mean they didn't put it there. Evangelion's a good example. Do you know any Angels trying to wipe out mankind? What about giant whale angels? We all know Adam didn't biblically give birth to the Angels, but that doesn't change the fact that they're biblical allusions. The Japanese don't give a **** about accuracy to western myth. They just think it's cool, just like the west f*cks up Eastern mythology because it's cool.

It's not a matter of getting every "painstaking detail" right. They missed the mark entirely. Not to mention if they didn't take the time to accurately interpret scripture or at least research the topic very much, it's a pretty far stretch to believe they could accurately allude to the story at all. And saying it happens just because "they think it's cool" doesn't make the proposed parallel any less invalid. If anything, it only enforced my opinion that it is invalid because the source of the parallel is completely inaccurate, uninformed, and unreliable.

The Book of Revelations was written like atleast 200 years after Origen's death.

Actually it was written at least 100 years before he we born. Historians believe it was written in the late 1st century (some say the mid-1st century). Origen lived during the 3rd century.

[AuraTwilight]

Whatever. I never said the parallel was accurate, intentional, serious, or the like. All I said was that it was something me and my mom thought of, and that there's definately grounds for it. It's no more invalid a metaphor than comparing Aura to God/Jesus.

[S1lentOp]

Whatever. I never said the parallel was accurate, intentional, serious, or the like. All I said was that it was something me and my mom thought of, and that there's definately grounds for it.[/quotes] Other than the idea of Satan having horns and red-glowing eyes, no.

[quotes] It's no more invalid a metaphor than comparing Aura to God/Jesus.

It's not any more valid either.

[Ratsu]

Yeah Ginkan does manage to redeem himself by the end of Sign. But it does make sense how Ginkan was full of pride after being Subaru's right hand man for so long. That and he's a 20 something year old working in a video rental store <_<.

LOL my sister is 23 and works in a block buster ROFL my sister is...(I will just call him silver knight hi sother name is too hard to spell >_>)