Plot Hole?

Discuss the anime series that started it all, .hack//SIGN and //LIMINALITY

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Samuel
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Plot Hole?

Post by Samuel »

I just thought od a plot hole.

Skieth puts sora in a coma at the end of sign.
In the games sora has been brought back but has no memory of ever playing and his parents hide the game from him.

alright this is it.

In Unison he is back and is asking Mistral for her member address and is later dancing with Tsukasa and Silver Knight.

WTF. major retconnage.
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Shinsou Wotan
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Post by Shinsou Wotan »

This is not necessarily a problem. My theory is that Ryou's situation is not a simple case of amnesia. Rather, sometime between the moment he was Data Drained and the moment he came out of his coma, his personality was forcibly split. The "Sora" portion of his mind remained trapped within the game, much like Tsukasa had been, while the "Ryou" portion awoke with no memory of the game.
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AuraTwilight
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Or, more simply, it was just the Sora AI.
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Post by Samuel »

AuraTwilight wrote:Or, more simply, it was just the Sora AI.
You think? I never really thought of the AIs at the end of QUARANTINE to be cannon and more of an easter egg for completeing the game... but that seems most likely.

And did the AIs have voice-acting in the game?

It seems weird how an AI could speak exactly like the real person...
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Post by AuraTwilight »

You think? I never really thought of the AIs at the end of QUARANTINE to be cannon and more of an easter egg for completeing the game... but that seems most likely.
As things stand, they have more of a chance of being canon than Unison. Plus they were talked about in Analysis, so that's good enough for me.
And did the AIs have voice-acting in the game?
I'm not sure.
It seems weird how an AI could speak exactly like the real person...
Why not, if they think they ARE that person?
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Post by .hack//BICTIOUS »

The AIs did speak in both the dub and Japanese versions. Sora even calls out his attack name. Their e-mails suggest they have memories of SIGN but have massive amnesia on certain parts. For example, the Subaru AI still thinks the Crimson Knights are around, and Tsukasa is still emo.
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Post by Samuel »

AuraTwilight wrote:
It seems weird how an AI could speak exactly like the real person...
Why not, if they think they ARE that person?
I found it strange how good they could imitate a voice so well, I mean AI like Aura you can forgive being able to talk because probably Harold programmed the voice for here to use. And I could believe an AI copying personality by writing emails and text chat (if you play WoW a lot of people just chat with the keyboard), however how a character like Sora's voice could be imitated by a computer exactly like the real thing is a bit unbelievable.

However all of that has been cleared up by Bic.
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Post by Daichi »

unison is AFTER IMOQ. then sora snaps out of coma
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Post by .hack//BICTIOUS »

Yes, dear, we know Ryou wakes up. However, has no memory of ever playing The World, so why would he be playing Sora in Unison?

I'm growing fond of the theory that Sora actually split off from Ryou after the Data Drain, or that it was just the Sora AI.
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Post by Akuta »

Daichi, what you wrote doesn't cover the fact that Ryou doesn't seem to remember about The World after coming out of it.


Is it true that Ryou doesn't remember playing The World after his coma? Can someone here confirm it for sure for me, because I'm not 100% sure on that.

If so, then I agree with the theory that the Sora AI must've been the one in Unison (though this is such a plot hole that it almost feels like Unison has to be non-canon).

If the Subaru AI thought the Crimson Knights were around and the Tsukasa AI was still emo, then it would make sense for the Sora AI to -not- have any memories of the moments before Sora was drained.
That leave us with these two problems:

His "helping out" when confronting Morganna was the only notable "help" I remember him giving them, as was his cooperation with her the reason he joined into the events mostly. He shouldn't remember that, so why'd he even be around in the Unison party? Sure, that can be explained by some less deep explanations, but the Sora that was in Unison doesn't seem all confused like "Wtf is all this? Why did I get dragged/followed them here?"

And something that I'd say is more notable, if Sora AI was indeed the Sora in Unison, then the Sora in Unison doesn't remember saying this to Tsukasa: "Let's be friends."
Tsukasas gesture to him in Unison must've been in reply to him having said that when facing Morganna, don't you think?
It feels like that wouldn't work out or that Sora should've gone "What? Who are you? Why are you doing that?"


What do you people think? In any case, Sora AI being there seems more likely than the split-person theory.
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Post by BadRPiggy »

It would make perfect sense if Unison was non-cannon though.

Creators wouldn't have to explain anything and good for the fans who love everything about /sign and IMOQ. (but thats just my opinon)
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shiroi
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Post by shiroi »

I think Daichi meant that Ryou woke up after Unison, but that doesn't make sense timeline-wise.

I believe Unison was always meant to be canon. It has been confirmed that the .hack//UdeDen manga is canon, and it's even referenced later in //G.U. At the end of the manga, we see Sora in one panel as well, and we know it can't be Ryou because he's already had amnesia for four years. The simplest explanation is that yes, his appearance in both cases is a plot hole. CC2 was probably not counting on ever using Ryou again in future installments. Maybe they didn't even decide to give him amnesia until much of the //G.U. story was written and rewritten. Rei Izumi's notes at the end of the manga gave the impression that they weren't planning on continuing the story at the time. Besides, .hack isn't entirely without plot-holes either. Most of them simply aren't this noticible.

On the other hand, there are other possible explanations, as everyone else mentioned. Personally, I'm fond of the split-personality theory, but it really doesn't have any solid evidence to support it. I like to think of it as a possibility, though, because Ryou's amnesia is so complete: he forgets everything about The World, and even his personality changes so much that he practically becomes a different person, especially in the way he reacts to most situations. To me, it seems as though a piece of his personality was lost with his memories of the game. Of course this is just speculation, and the AI theory does seem more practical.

As for the AIs speaking, Albireo wondered how Lycoris could speak so realistically despite being an AI in //AI Buster. Like Aura, she must have had a really well-developed voice program. In the Net Slum, there were AIs with obviously worse voice programs. The AI character copies' voice programs were most likely copies of actual characters' "voice data". When you're in a coma and your consciousness is inside the game, you can't exactly speak through a microphone, so your "voice" can only be a program translated from your actual voice. The AIs probably had copies of the same program. That's just my theory on that.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Daichi, what you wrote doesn't cover the fact that Ryou doesn't seem to remember about The World after coming out of it.


Is it true that Ryou doesn't remember playing The World after his coma? Can someone here confirm it for sure for me, because I'm not 100% sure on that.

If so, then I agree with the theory that the Sora AI must've been the one in Unison (though this is such a plot hole that it almost feels like Unison has to be non-canon).

If the Subaru AI thought the Crimson Knights were around and the Tsukasa AI was still emo, then it would make sense for the Sora AI to -not- have any memories of the moments before Sora was drained.
That leave us with these two problems:

His "helping out" when confronting Morganna was the only notable "help" I remember him giving them, as was his cooperation with her the reason he joined into the events mostly. He shouldn't remember that, so why'd he even be around in the Unison party? Sure, that can be explained by some less deep explanations, but the Sora that was in Unison doesn't seem all confused like "Wtf is all this? Why did I get dragged/followed them here?"

And something that I'd say is more notable, if Sora AI was indeed the Sora in Unison, then the Sora in Unison doesn't remember saying this to Tsukasa: "Let's be friends."
Tsukasas gesture to him in Unison must've been in reply to him having said that when facing Morganna, don't you think?
It feels like that wouldn't work out or that Sora should've gone "What? Who are you? Why are you doing that?"


What do you people think? In any case, Sora AI being there seems more likely than the split-person theory.
The Sora entity in IMOQ and Unison has perfectly intact memory.

And yes, it's factual that Ryou forgot everything.

As for the AI VS Piece of Sora's Self debate, what's the difference, really, when you take into account how the Sora AI came into being?
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Post by Samuel »

shiroi wrote:On the other hand, there are other possible explanations, as everyone else mentioned. Personally, I'm fond of the split-personality theory, but it really doesn't have any solid evidence to support it. I like to think of it as a possibility, though, because Ryou's amnesia is so complete: he forgets everything about The World, and even his personality changes so much that he practically becomes a different person, especially in the way he reacts to most situations. To me, it seems as though a piece of his personality was lost with his memories of the game. Of course this is just speculation, and the AI theory does seem more practical.
About Ryou's personality could just be him not being a ten year old in  GU
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Post by S1lentOp »

I never considered Unison cannon. I figured it was just more of a service-episode to all the fans who thought it would be cool to a) see the game characters in anime form and b) see all the characters together in one place. It never really made sense to me that all the characters would actually get together and have a big in-game party in Net Slum..
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Post by Akuta »

AuraTwilight wrote:
Daichi, what you wrote doesn't cover the fact that Ryou doesn't seem to remember about The World after coming out of it.


Is it true that Ryou doesn't remember playing The World after his coma? Can someone here confirm it for sure for me, because I'm not 100% sure on that.

If so, then I agree with the theory that the Sora AI must've been the one in Unison (though this is such a plot hole that it almost feels like Unison has to be non-canon).

If the Subaru AI thought the Crimson Knights were around and the Tsukasa AI was still emo, then it would make sense for the Sora AI to -not- have any memories of the moments before Sora was drained.
That leave us with these two problems:

His "helping out" when confronting Morganna was the only notable "help" I remember him giving them, as was his cooperation with her the reason he joined into the events mostly. He shouldn't remember that, so why'd he even be around in the Unison party? Sure, that can be explained by some less deep explanations, but the Sora that was in Unison doesn't seem all confused like "Wtf is all this? Why did I get dragged/followed them here?"

And something that I'd say is more notable, if Sora AI was indeed the Sora in Unison, then the Sora in Unison doesn't remember saying this to Tsukasa: "Let's be friends."
Tsukasas gesture to him in Unison must've been in reply to him having said that when facing Morganna, don't you think?
It feels like that wouldn't work out or that Sora should've gone "What? Who are you? Why are you doing that?"


What do you people think? In any case, Sora AI being there seems more likely than the split-person theory.
The Sora entity in IMOQ and Unison has perfectly intact memory.

And yes, it's factual that Ryou forgot everything.

As for the AI VS Piece of Sora's Self debate, what's the difference, really, when you take into account how the Sora AI came into being?
So it's confirmed that the Sora AI remembers -everything-? Are there any specific quotes or such that can prove this?
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shiroi
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Post by shiroi »

Samuel wrote:About Ryou's personality could just be him not being a ten year old in  GU
That is true, but the change that really bothers me has to do with values. Sora doesn't really care about becoming stronger; he just wants to have fun.  Haseo is obsessed with becoming strong and often seems incapable of enjoying the game. But I suppose that too can be argued either way.
AuraTwilight wrote:As for the AI VS Piece of Sora's Self debate, what's the difference, really, when you take into account how the Sora AI came into being?
That's a good point. I guess the only difference is the reason he lost his memory. It would be really interesting, though, if the AI was still around, but I doubt that'll ever be a plot point.
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Post by Daichi »

maybe one of his friends had invited him again??


or he logs in in reflex?
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Post by Samuel »

Daichi wrote:maybe one of his friends had invited him again??
then he would remember playing the world, wich he doesn't.

and even if unison wasn't cannon LOTTB manga was and it had a small cameo of him.
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Post by Azure crow »

Samuel wrote:
Daichi wrote:maybe one of his friends had invited him again??
then he would remember playing the world, wich he doesn't.

and even if unison wasn't cannon LOTTB manga was and it had a small cameo of him.
That was the Sora A.I.

It's also theorized that his "friend"' was his subconcious placing a false memory.
I personally think Skeith had something to do with it....
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