Question about Haseo's Third Form

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby TheSorrow » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:25 pm

so it makes no sense he went up to 133 and din't lvl anymore...

He didn't fight anything else but PKers since that moment, and i don't think any of them had a level higher than 130, so, in order for Haseo to level up one single level, he'd have to defeat 1000 PKers....i don't think he got past 500 in ALL his Terror of Death "career" :/
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Azure Knight » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:43 am

TheSorrow wrote:
so it makes no sense he went up to 133 and din't lvl anymore...

He didn't fight anything else but PKers since that moment, and i don't think any of them had a level higher than 130, so, in order for Haseo to level up one single level, he'd have to defeat 1000 PKers....i don't think he got past 500 in ALL his Terror of Death "career" :/


They said at the //Rebirth intro movie that he's killed 100, so he's gone up one level at most during his whole PKK career. The theory that he was level 33 and was increased by 100 by Harald seems to make the most sense.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby TheSorrow » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:47 am

Azure Knight wrote:
TheSorrow wrote:
so it makes no sense he went up to 133 and din't lvl anymore...

He didn't fight anything else but PKers since that moment, and i don't think any of them had a level higher than 130, so, in order for Haseo to level up one single level, he'd have to defeat 1000 PKers....i don't think he got past 500 in ALL his Terror of Death "career" :/


They said at the //Rebirth intro movie that he's killed 100, so he's gone up one level at most during his whole PKK career. The theory that he was level 33 and was increased by 100 by Harald seems to make the most sense.

Yeah, the theory that he was lv33 and then went up 100 levels makes the most sense and i believe in that too, but....he didn't go up a single level during his PKK career. Yes, he killed 100, but for level up he requiers 1000 (getting 1EXP per PK that was lower than lv130...in other words, everyone), so he only got 1/10EXP needed to level up at that point, and i doubt he killed other 900 PKers elsewhere, even counting all the amount of poor victims he faced while looking for "Tri-Edge"
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Other Self » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:59 pm

Haseo{Terror of } wrote:I don't think it was level 133, maybe like level 100 and Haseo did the rest, cause he did PK like 100 players and . I mean 133 is like too random unless he was on level 33 and Harald just leveled him up 100 levels

i pretty sure he had gotten to level 17ish then harrold just shot him up 116 levels

Yeah, the theory that he was lv33 and then went up 100 levels makes the most sense and i believe in that too, but....he didn't go up a single level during his PKK career. Yes, he killed 100, but for level up he requiers 1000 (getting 1EXP per PK that was lower than lv130...in other words, everyone), so he only got 1/10EXP needed to level up at that point, and i doubt he killed other 900 PKers elsewhere, even counting all the amount of poor victims he faced while looking for "Tri-Edge"

you gotta put into consideration that he probley did fight a couple level 140ish players. i mean he lost to whats her face(the hit taker i cant remember her name)

now that i think about it haseo couldn't beat "Tri-edge" (Azure Kite) at level 130+ but could at less then 50? weird. i dont think Azure kite got weaker and his level 50ish friends couldn't possible help THAT much..... so the only reasable explanation is that Haseo (Level 133+) lost to Azure Kite (Level 50ish)

wow thats pathetic( no offence to any haseo fans, im 1 my self)
Last edited by Anime Monkey on Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Triple posting ._.

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby TheSorrow » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:21 am

First of all, don't triple-post. You give a bad image of yourself that, after not getting offline for quite some time, you go back and post like this ._.'

And lessee..
i pretty sure he had gotten to level 17ish then harrold just shot him up 116 levels

Passing through the Forest of Pain, an area with the highest-leveled monsters, i'm sure he leveled up to 30 at least. And it just makes more sense that Harald increased his level by 100 (a round number), than just a random number like 116. That is, of course, unless there's some document or canon text somewhere that states Haseo's level right before meeting Harald, but i don't think there's any :/

you gotta put into consideration that he probley did fight a couple level 140ish players. i mean he lost to whats her face(the hit taker i cant remember her name)

Yes, and he lost, and that's probably the only time he ever fought such a high-leveled character. Plus, Midori was closer to an AI than to a PC, and could move around far better than the other players like Haseo. Also, Haseo wasn't THAT strong to be fighting other enemies of a higher level...he was just pretty much toying around n00bs and low-leveled PKs, in the same way anyone would pwn lvl40- PCs while using a lvl130+ character, even if such person has no skills at all. I think that's pretty much proven in the Arena battles at Rebirth, where he was pretty much being pwned all over, now that he had to rely on his skills rather than his level (and Data Drain doesn't really erase any gaming skills you've had :/) So, either way, he didn't fight and win against high-level characters, and so, didn't level up on his PKK career.

now that i think about it haseo couldn't beat "Tri-edge" (Azure Kite) at level 130+ but could at less then 50? weird. i dont think Azure kite got weaker and his level 50ish friends couldn't possible help THAT much..... so the only reasable explanation is that Haseo (Level 133+) lost to Azure Kite (Level 50ish)

The explanation for that could be wide and detailed, but i'm lazy so i'll just say that Azure Kite isn't a PC like all others, with a predefined HP and stats like the rest....he's pretty much friggin immortal. The only reason why Haseo won is because Azure Kite just tried to scare him away and Haseo used all his power through Skeith (only a devouring Epitaph like him could prove enough challenge for him to break away), and he's only given HP and normal stats for GU gameplay, so that you can actually win the fight. In Redemption, Azure Kite and the rest pretty much received no damage through the whole battle, and maybe would've never had until Haseo used Skeith or something, and it would still be kinda hard to beat all 3.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Sha » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:38 am

_Tri-edge_ wrote:In //ROOTS, shortly after reaching the end of the FOP, Haseo confronts Harold. After that, Harold gives Haseo his Third form. This is sort of weird though, since he went from his first form and jumped straight into his third form, skipping his second. So if this is true, then at first, was Haseo's Third form really a "normal" job extension, or was it because of Haseo's desire for revenge against Tri-edge, since Harold, I believe, gives the winner what they truly desire, of some sort. Just like with Ovan in the FOP in Vol.3


Quite true...,
Harold gives the players what they truely desire. Taihaku who was bored and didn't have any real desire, completed the event and got the weapon.

Haseo, who wanted more power, went all the way to only find the weapon. Harold asked Haseo a question which, in anger, Haseo gave an undesirable answer, making Harold think that Haseo completed the quest for something else, prompting him to grant Haseo the 3rd Form.

When Haseo obtain the 3rd Form, his Avatar was locked and was unable to awaken. Only when Kite, which Haseo thought is Tri-Edge, Data Drains him allowed his PC to reset, thus allowing Skeith to awaken in his 2nd Form.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Other Self » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:59 pm

Sha wrote:
_Tri-edge_ wrote:In //ROOTS, shortly after reaching the end of the FOP, Haseo confronts Harold. After that, Harold gives Haseo his Third form. This is sort of weird though, since he went from his first form and jumped straight into his third form, skipping his second. So if this is true, then at first, was Haseo's Third form really a "normal" job extension, or was it because of Haseo's desire for revenge against Tri-edge, since Harold, I believe, gives the winner what they truly desire, of some sort. Just like with Ovan in the FOP in Vol.3


Quite true...,
Harold gives the players what they truely desire. Taihaku who was bored and didn't have any real desire, completed the event and got the weapon.

Haseo, who wanted more power, went all the way to only find the weapon. Harold asked Haseo a question which, in anger, Haseo gave an undesirable answer, making Harold think that Haseo completed the quest for something else, prompting him to grant Haseo the 3rd Form.

When Haseo obtain the 3rd Form, his Avatar was locked and was unable to awaken. Only when Kite, which Haseo thought is Tri-Edge, Data Drains him allowed his PC to reset, thus allowing Skeith to awaken in his 2nd Form.

good point. I never thought of it that way

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ganheim » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:48 pm

Has everybody forgot about all the training he's done through Roots? He, Ovan, and Shino explicitly go off for training at least twice, and unless I remember incorrectly, Tabby comments that Haseo's been off for training more than her (which must be a lot, as much as she was bugging Sakisaka). After completing a 100-floor dungeon I don't think it's unreasonable that he'd be a lot higher than 30 (the 70-80 range sounds reasonable to me).

I think the implication was that most of the power-up that Harold gave was the third form and maybe unnaturally boosted stats (all of which must have vanished when Kite data-drained him, because Haseo was no powerhouse stat-wise). If he also gave a power-boost, it might've just been something smaller like 25 (85+15=100), and then Haseo mauled through not just idiot PKers but also a lot of monsters because he's still scouring The World's areas to find Tri-Edge. They said there were at least 100 PKers in that one fight, so who knows how many others there were besides them.

Thoughts?
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby TheSorrow » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:23 pm

Ganheim wrote:Has everybody forgot about all the training he's done through Roots? He, Ovan, and Shino explicitly go off for training at least twice, and unless I remember incorrectly, Tabby comments that Haseo's been off for training more than her (which must be a lot, as much as she was bugging Sakisaka). After completing a 100-floor dungeon I don't think it's unreasonable that he'd be a lot higher than 30 (the 70-80 range sounds reasonable to me).

I think the implication was that most of the power-up that Harold gave was the third form and maybe unnaturally boosted stats (all of which must have vanished when Kite data-drained him, because Haseo was no powerhouse stat-wise). If he also gave a power-boost, it might've just been something smaller like 25 (85+15=100), and then Haseo mauled through not just idiot PKers but also a lot of monsters because he's still scouring The World's areas to find Tri-Edge. They said there were at least 100 PKers in that one fight, so who knows how many others there were besides them.

Thoughts?


Not really.

ALL the training he did while he was with the Twilight Brigade, and then the rest of the training he did on his own, was what got him to level 20-30. Sure, he finished the level 100 dungeon, but most enemies had been defeated by Taihaku, and Haseo usually tried to avoid them...he didn't fight much, probably like 6 enemy parties through the whole dungeon, and that would've increased his level in only 6 or 8.
The "power" Harold gave him might've been nothing but a sudden increase in level (and the stats boosted accordingly), and the instant Job Extensions, but all that sudden power just made Haseo feel like he was the most powerful thing ever, and made him gain alot of confidence...that's why he fought so awesomely good too, as he was confident that he could defeat anyone. And after that, he probably increased his level in ONE at most. He never left the Mac Anu server, so any monsters he would've defeated, and most likely every PK or player he defeated the whole time had a level lower than 50...in order to increase a level, he would've had to defeat 1000 enemies, and probably he killed less than 600 during his whole "Terror of Death" career, including the 100PK battle, which was the most players he ever fought at once. But that was it....he didn't level up much enough on it's own, not by defeating enemies in the Forest of Pain either, and all his power and abilities were just because he fought against VERY weak enemies, and he was just confident enough to do spiffy tricks and kill them all awesomely. The only player he ever fought that was somewhat at his level was Midori...and Haseo couldn't do almost anything against her. Had he fought a level 150 Henako, he would've gone down so quickly :P
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Master ZED » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:36 pm

TheSorrow wrote:He never left the Mac Anu server, so any monsters he would've defeated, and most likely every PK or player he defeated the whole time had a level lower than 50
Not true. Originally, you were supposed to be able to access fields on any server from any town's Chaos Gate, which is why Rebirth has a Server sort option in the Gate's menu on Delta server. That and the Alphabetical sort were removed from Reminisce and Redemption when the idea was scrapped between volumes. The version of R:2 in Roots consists of ideas in play prior to the final version of Rebirth, if you'll recall, and it did not change as far as we know as the anime and G.U. progressed.

Haseo may have remained in Mac Anu throughout Roots, but that doesn't mean he was limited to Lv. 50 areas and under.

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby hidora » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:47 pm

TheSorrow wrote:he didn't fight much, probably like 6 enemy parties through the whole dungeon, and that would've increased his level in only 6 or 8.
I don't even remember seeing Haseo defeating any monster at the FoP .-.
Also, there's a limit of EXP you can win in one battle (the max is 540 or so, I think), so Haseo couldn't level up that much.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby TheSorrow » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:09 pm

Supported by hidora and pwned by the Master '8D lol

Yeah, i don't remember seeing Haseo defeat any monster did, but i'm assuming that he at least, defeated ONE monster while still being by that girl/guy. And he could've levelled up alot by defeating several enemy parties (not just all monsters at once, but a few monsters per each battle)...but he would've FOUGHT alot then, and by the end, he didn't say anything about the monsters in the dungeon. The FoP in Roots somehow seemed more of a "puzzle dungeon" with scary stuff rather than just a bunch of monsters in a bunch of floors.

And well, though Haseo might've gone to 50+ level areas and dungeons, doesn't seem like he went on and fought through several high-levelled areas and gained alot of levels then. As far as it seems, he didn't bother to fight enemies and play the game "as any other player"...just directly to PKs. And he didn't go for Chaotic PKs either or something like that either...just random PKs that either could have information, or tried to defeat him.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Master ZED » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:16 pm

TheSorrow wrote:And well, though Haseo might've gone to 50+ level areas and dungeons, doesn't seem like he went on and fought through several high-levelled areas and gained alot of levels then. As far as it seems, he didn't bother to fight enemies and play the game "as any other player"...just directly to PKs. And he didn't go for Chaotic PKs either or something like that either...just random PKs that either could have information, or tried to defeat him.
True enough, but remember the case of IYOTEN and Asta; even when their levels were in the hundreds, they were still targeting newbies. If we disregard the fact that their level was Sage Palace-worthy likely only for the sake of the plot, where would those two have gained so many levels even over that long a period if they weren't doing some monster-slaying on the side?

What I mean is, even if PK's may be wandering through Delta server areas for the most part, there's no telling what their levels are. Some may just be LV. 10 newbie hunters, some may desire enough levels to crush 99% of all players they come across without breaking a sweat, which would require a lot of leveling up since you never know when a Shino or Haseo will appear. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean Haseo never did any normal adventuring to counter the latter group, the most likely to have the info he needed. By this point, he was a net junkie, and with all that time invested, I could definitely see him doing some leveling up during a rather inactive period of the day (and, from a story standpoint, is it really necessary to show this when we never see anyone's levels anyway?). Sheer necessity would explain how Haseo made it to LV. 133 without invoking Harald.

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby _Tri-edge_ » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:46 pm

Then again, there is the period of eight months, give or take a few from the actual FOP event, from when Haseo first logged into the game till his encounter with Bordeaux and the rest of the PK's, according to G.U.'s storyline. You think that would be enough time for him, or rather, anyone to level up 30+ levels through sheer training? Especially since Haseo went solo for most of his adventuring.

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ganheim » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:50 pm

hidora wrote:I don't even remember seeing Haseo defeating any monster at the FoP .-.
I think that's more likely because the animators for the .Hack series are terrible at doing fight scenes and know it, that's why the closest we get is the final slash. Avoiding something you're bad at is one way to cover it up.

Master ZED wrote:Just because we don't see it doesn't mean Haseo never did any normal adventuring to counter the latter group, the most likely to have the info he needed. By this point, he was a net junkie, and with all that time invested, I could definitely see him doing some leveling up. Sheer necessity would explain how Haseo made it to Lv 133 without invoking Harald.
I was even thinking this but forgot to mention it. 6-8 months is a long time, and we saw virtually none of that in Roots. I think it's more unlikely that he wouldn't have done leveling-up on the side than that he did.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Master ZED » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:07 pm

Ganheim wrote:I think that's more likely because the animators for the .Hack series are terrible at doing fight scenes and know it, that's why the closest we get is the final slash. Avoiding something you're bad at is one way to cover it up.
This is just a thought, but I've always believed the avoidance of battle came more from the fact that the animes (save LoTT) were based on unfinished game engines, so going into fine detail would be ill-advised. Tabby and her Rengeki obsession is a fine example of how being too specific too early can backfire, if your writers are idiots, that is.

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ganheim » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:43 pm

Master ZED wrote:This is just a thought, but I've always believed the avoidance of battle came more from the fact that the animes (save LoTT) were based on unfinished game engines, so going into fine detail would be ill-advised. Tabby and her Rengeki obsession is a fine example of how being too specific too early can backfire, if your writers are idiots, that is.

That's a pretty plausible explanation, but the only games that I know of are IMOQ and the GU trilogy (besides Link, which isn't quite at issue here). Am I missing something? Just curious.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby GyppyGirl2021 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:02 pm

//Roots and //SIGN are based before //G.U. and //IMOQ.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ranylyn » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:49 pm

Then again, there is the period of eight months, give or take a few from the actual FOP event, from when Haseo first logged into the game till his encounter with Bordeaux and the rest of the PK's, according to G.U.'s storyline. You think that would be enough time for him, or rather, anyone to level up 30+ levels through sheer training? Especially since Haseo went solo for most of his adventuring.


Basically, he was 133 when he got Data Drained. There is an 8 month gap between his Level 1 and His Level 133 finale against Tri-Edge and losing. If you ask me, I'd say that he did a lot of grinding on his own to gain levels to beat Tri-Edge, and PKK'd for information. I'd say that maybe his levels DID shoot up, but not straight to 133.

I've played MMOs myself, and I am the universe's slowest leveller, but even I could potentially make it from Level 1 to 80 in WoW in like 4 months if I still played (some people can do it in 3 weeks, madness!) Considering how Driven Haseo was for Revenge, I'd say that maybe Harald even just boosted him up to 51 (the legitimate level for Job Extention events in G.U.) and he Grinded the rest.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby _Tri-edge_ » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:06 am

Yeah, but from what we've seen, all of his kills after he gained the 3rd form, came from PK's, and you don't get an adequate amount of EXP killing players, so I find it quite hard to believe that Haseo gained 82 levels just by PKK'ing in such a short amount of time.


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