So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

MRcool2035
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by MRcool2035 »

Hey guys, been hanging around for a while but just now signed up because of this topic :P

anyway, got a question.

At the end of Volume 3 i was pretty sure that Ovan had died as everything seemed to imply that fact, and at the end of Trilogy there seems to be a clear connection to //LINK, i haven't actually read the Manga for //Link yet so i can't be sure of anything, but IF, and this is a big if, if they decide to make a game based on //Link, would the game itself be a continuation of the of the G.U. universe or a continuation of the Trilogy alternative ending? because, at least to me, a major character Like Ovan living or dieing would make a lot of influence on which direction the next part of the Series goes in, though i guess now, that his Objective has been fulfilled he doesn't really have the need to appear in the rest of the series, dead or alive.

(also a bit off topic, but am i the only one disappointed that they didn't show the Cubia part of the story at all? i mean it was a pretty big part to leave out)
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by iuliathe3rd »

Actually, not having Cubia in it was one of the best parts about Trilogy. Throwing Cubia in at the end of Redemption was very random and, in my opinion, just a way to fill up time. If they had alluded to Cubia near the beginning of the game, it would have been better, but it wasn't. Basically, if the game's storyline can still work without Cubia in the equation, than it was completely unnecessary.

What Trilogy solved was having Ovan be the big bad "final boss". Really, Redemption should've ended like that.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

At the end of Volume 3 i was pretty sure that Ovan had died as everything seemed to imply that fact, and at the end of Trilogy there seems to be a clear connection to //LINK, i haven't actually read the Manga for //Link yet so i can't be sure of anything, but IF, and this is a big if, if they decide to make a game based on //Link, would the game itself be a continuation of the of the G.U. universe or a continuation of the Trilogy alternative ending? because, at least to me, a major character Like Ovan living or dieing would make a lot of influence on which direction the next part of the Series goes in, though i guess now, that his Objective has been fulfilled he doesn't really have the need to appear in the rest of the series, dead or alive.
Ovan doesn't die in either version.
Actually, not having Cubia in it was one of the best parts about Trilogy. Throwing Cubia in at the end of Redemption was very random and, in my opinion, just a way to fill up time. If they had alluded to Cubia near the beginning of the game, it would have been better, but it wasn't. Basically, if the game's storyline can still work without Cubia in the equation, than it was completely unnecessary.

What Trilogy solved was having Ovan be the big bad "final boss". Really, Redemption should've ended like that.
I can definitely agree with Ovan being a final boss, but I DID like the Cubia part right up until they actual ending, which sucked. It would've been cool if Cubia was Anti-Existencing the Epitaph Users, and they had to release the Epitaphs from their PC's to stop him.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by milliennium_fox »

Anime Monkey wrote: If they had alluded to Cubia near the beginning of the game, it would have been better, but it wasn't.
They did actually, in the Terminal Disc.
MRcool2035
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by MRcool2035 »

AuraTwilight wrote: Ovan doesn't die in either version.
really? cool, ^_^ i sorta always figured he did since Haseo was all "waaaaa... O-Van is G-ONEEEEEE" and than Ovan went poof when Haseo tried to grab his hand.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by FallenDragon »

MRcool2035 wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote: Ovan doesn't die in either version.
really? cool, ^_^ i sorta always figured he did since Haseo was all "waaaaa... O-Van is G-ONEEEEEE" and than Ovan went poof when Haseo tried to grab his hand.
You should watch the OVA Returner, it'll make sense. We could say that Returner is the last part of the story.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

Ovan went into a coma, and his consciousness, trapped in Za Warudo, could not be reached. So he was effectively gone. In Returner, however, he reawakens.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Fragments.beta »

I seem to remember back in the realese fo Vol.3 early speculations was that Cubia was to Anti-Existence the Ovan's Rebirth Program. It was great idea too because:
- it would have made sense in the storytelling
- it would make Ovan's sudden reappearance to give Haseo his epitaph much more tear jerking
- it would give the English title Redemption a lot more credibility

Then came the official material saying that Cubia was an anti-existence to Xth Form. Totally killed the whole "Cubia Arc" thing for me.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Musashi Kojira »

Well that answers my question as to exactly what the hell Cubia was the anti-existence of. Although I could have sworn the games referred to Cubia as the epitaph's anti-existence (I recall the members of G.U. referring to Cubia as "Our anti-existence" rather than "Haseo's anti-existence"). And if Cubia is in fact the anti-existence of Xth Haseo then the ending makes even less sense to me. An anti-existence is in simple terms, a shadow of yourself. How can you get rid of your shadow without getting rid of yourself? It's like me punching the ground on a sunny day expecting to hurt the black thing following me when I'm only busting my knuckles on concrete.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Twilisapien »

Revelation wrote:
Kuukai wrote: Those aren't reasons it can't be him. Unless there's some hard evidence against it, I believe that possibility is just as worth noting as the others.
If it ends up being Bith the Black then they might as well bring back Carl, Alph, Albireo and everyone as that'd be almost the entirety of the .hack crew. It's also worth noting that the tone of voice that was used in the conversation doesn't suit Bith the Black as from past records he's been known to not take most situations seriously. His personality could have all been a ruse though alternatively...
i would like to see a cameo or an appearance for bith the black, i only see him in the real world and its a drag
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

I seem to remember back in the realese fo Vol.3 early speculations was that Cubia was to Anti-Existence the Ovan's Rebirth Program. It was great idea too because:
- it would have made sense in the storytelling
- it would make Ovan's sudden reappearance to give Haseo his epitaph much more tear jerking
- it would give the English title Redemption a lot more credibility

Then came the official material saying that Cubia was an anti-existence to Xth Form. Totally killed the whole "Cubia Arc" thing for me.
Tell me about it. Though to be fair, the Redemption thing was referring to Ovan's sacrifice to save Aina, not the whole Cubia mess. Still though, I'd have had a lot easier time accepting the Xth Form thing if you actually see it do something as powerful as the crap Cubia pulls, something like "Haseo, you have the power to save Ovan!" And then Haseo gives off this big aura that covers the whole sky or some ****.

Man, I miss my old ass idea of the AIDA being the Anti-Existence to the Epitaph Users. It made so much sense.
-Both entities cling to players pseudo-parasitically
-Both entities are obsessed with collecting emotions
-Both entities utilize Avatar Space and can send humans into comas
-The AIDA seem to want to possess the Avatars, harking back to XXXX Cubia's desire for the Bracelet to become complete.

I'm fine with how the story turned out, but man, I could've done way better. There was also my sweet "UAI Aina" idea, and "Old Bracelet Tri-Edge."
Well that answers my question as to exactly what the hell Cubia was the anti-existence of. Although I could have sworn the games referred to Cubia as the epitaph's anti-existence (I recall the members of G.U. referring to Cubia as "Our anti-existence" rather than "Haseo's anti-existence"). And if Cubia is in fact the anti-existence of Xth Haseo then the ending makes even less sense to me. An anti-existence is in simple terms, a shadow of yourself. How can you get rid of your shadow without getting rid of yourself? It's like me punching the ground on a sunny day expecting to hurt the black thing following me when I'm only busting my knuckles on concrete.
The characters might've been mistaken over who Cubia was opposing, like Jun was. Anyway, my theory is that, since the Epitaphs are basically Morganna, and thus INTERNET GAWD, using them all together allows l33t haxx0rz such as commanding Cubia to put Haseo on the "OK" list, just like Kite with his Daybreak Bracelet, or Shugo.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by iuliathe3rd »

milliennium_fox wrote:
Anime Monkey wrote: If they had alluded to Cubia near the beginning of the game, it would have been better, but it wasn't.
They did actually, in the Terminal Disc.
They did? Huh, must've forgotten about that...

Well still, some Americans don't have the Terminal Disc (even though they could probably find ways to watch the videos anyway). But, since the Terminal Disc came with all copies of Rebirth in Japan, I suppose that doesn't matter. The creators intended for people to know of Cubia early on then, I guess.

I still don't like how the Cubia plot was executed though. It needed so much more explaining.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

They did? Huh, must've forgotten about that...
Yes, they did. You know, how Jun found permutations in Za Warudo's data and suspected that a new Anti-Existence was forming in response to the Epitaph PCs? (Of course, those permutations were caused by the newborn AIDA and had no connection to the Epitaphs at all, but you know, whatever.)
I still don't like how the Cubia plot was executed though. It needed so much more explaining.
Agreed. Really, the whole damn GU franchise relied way too much on japanese guidebooks and things like that to get explanations to the fanbase, and there's also way too much extra novels and manga and stuff the West probably isn't going to see. I mean, all the first half of the series skipped out on was Zero.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by shadow of skeith »

So, overall, people are saying that the mysterious man is Bith, and he could be returning in .hack//LINK, probably as schicksal's mysterious ring leader. Hmm, perhaps LINK maybe interesting to see in the future, but why would CC2 introduce it in manga form first? This plot sounds more "video game" oriented. So I guess this will be an anime first before any idea of a game is placed. So Tokio must stop a gang of thugs, looking to control the secrets of "The World", to spread their power in the real world using the chronos cores and the akashic records. But this goes right back with my Cubia topic. If in fact, a group with specialized PC's are planning on controlling "The World" then Cubia is sure as Hell comming back. However, the whole Pi idea is still trying to connect with me. So basically, she's "using" schicksal? Possibly to reveal their plan to her, so she can stop them? Because if this is true, then Tokio's going to have a new comrade very soon. So far, I think Tokio's major teamates will be, Azure Kite, Haseo, Tsukasa, Pi, and possibly Kite, after they find a way to unfreeze him. Hmm, so Aura is on the case in this. Maybe LINK won't be as dissapointing as I thought it would be.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

So, overall, people are saying that the mysterious man is Bith, and he could be returning in .hack//LINK, probably as schicksal's mysterious ring leader.
No, not Bith's style. Besides, he's a 'good guy' and working for Helba anyway, who would never support this BS.
Hmm, perhaps LINK maybe interesting to see in the future, but why would CC2 introduce it in manga form first? This plot sounds more "video game" oriented. So I guess this will be an anime first before any idea of a game is placed.
CC2 doesn't plan to do any more games for .hack for a while. Plus, manga is better for panty shots.
So Tokio must stop a gang of thugs, looking to control the secrets of "The World", to spread their power in the real world using the chronos cores and the akashic records.
Where do you get Real World out of that?
But this goes right back with my Cubia topic. If in fact, a group with specialized PC's are planning on controlling "The World" then Cubia is sure as Hell comming back.
Unless they seize with the Key of the Twilight or mess with Aura, no he won't. And we don't know if messing with the Chrono Cores or the Akashic Records counts for either of those.
However, the whole Pi idea is still trying to connect with me. So basically, she's "using" schicksal? Possibly to reveal their plan to her, so she can stop them?
Clearly.
Hmm, so Aura is on the case in this.
Again, where are you getting this from?
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Tokio »

if bith i back does that mean helba too?
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by AuraTwilight »

Tokio wrote:if bith i back does that mean helba too?
Neither of them are back.
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Twilisapien »

yeh helba isnt so interested in the world anymore and "hacking it" due to the fact that the epitaph story is over



wiseman/yata is like the new helba
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Tawalaya »

Just thought I should point out. Wiseman/Naobi/Yata's RL person and voice is unknown, right? And with each character he did have a different voice, yes?

Also, listen to Orca's voice! His player is what, 14? I highly doubt a 14 year old kid has that kind of voice in RL. Also, in Roots didn't we see PKers posing as defenseless women that disguised their voice in the game?

Who's to say "The World" doesn't have a voice modification system? If so, then the person at the end of Trilogy talking with the user/player who controls Pi could very well be the RL person who controls Yata. :0
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Re: So what was the "twist"? (spoilers)

Post by Midori »

Tawalaya wrote:Just thought I should point out. Wiseman/Naobi/Yata's RL person and voice is unknown, right? And with each character he did have a different voice, yes?

Also, listen to Orca's voice! His player is what, 14? I highly doubt a 14 year old kid has that kind of voice in RL. Also, in Roots didn't we see PKers posing as defenseless women that disguised their voice in the game?

Who's to say "The World" doesn't have a voice modification system? If so, then the person at the end of Trilogy talking with the user/player who controls Pi could very well be the RL person who controls Yata. :0
However, she was talking to that person in the game. So whoever she was speaking to, it was their player's voice. And the player's voice was not Yata's, correct? And I highly doubt Yata made a new character if the PC Yata had an Epitaph in it.

And as far as we know Bith the Black, aka Ichiro Sato, is still alive. And we don't know what he and Helba are up to. For all we know, he could be Zelkova. If Zelkova contacted Pi via her cell phone with an e-mail, who's to say they don't talk openly now that the events of G.U. have transpired? He could have even recruited her into joining his and Helba's hacking team. I mean, Reiko Saeki quit CC Corp at the end of G.U. yes? So she would be free to stray from any rules within the game and her job's parameters.

But that itself is only speculation also.
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