Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

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_Tri-edge_
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by _Tri-edge_ »

TheSorrow wrote:...Well, crap ':P I don't get the metaphor though .3.

But, Zelkova isn't Helba anyways XD
Well, it basically throws the "Zelkova's Helba!" theory back in. The "Queen" has to be Helba, "Queen" of Darkness, and the "paradise" has to be Netslum, Hacker's paradise. Rumor says that the "Queen" has become a "King" who is overlooking paradise. Also, this raises another question. Remember when Kaede and Zelkova invited Haseo and Pi to Sigma: Wise Calamity's Water Mill? When Zelkova asked Pi about seeing something besides AIDA in the Outer Dungeons? I'm predicting that he predicted Cubia's prescence, so that could have been a lightbulb flicking on hinting Aura's re-appearence? Maybe, just maybe, Helba knew Aura would return and decided to wait around in R:2 as Zelkova. After all, the only reason Helba even participated in The World was because of Aura. Sure enough, Aura re-appeared...I don't know.^^; CC2 Kinda left this mystery in the dark.
Satoh wrote:EDIT: Hell, it could even be a hint the Zelkova is Lios! we don't have enough info just yet...

(I'm beginning to feel like I'm in the Rumors board itself now...)
I know right? XD Well, you could have a point there. If Zelkova is indeed the "King" of Light Lios, then that would make sense.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Kuukai »

_Tri-edge_ wrote:Well, it basically throws the "Zelkova's Helba!" theory back in.
It was never out! >.< But it's fun to see everyone run in circles I guess...
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Satoh »

_Tri-edge_ wrote: After all, the only reason Helba even participated in The World was because of Aura.
Beg pardons sir? When did she say that?

Also there is the theory that "Helba" is a group or organization... it could be that Zelkova is just a different part of "Helba"

But I still believe he's an AI.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Keyaki »

CC2 Kinda left this mystery in the dark.
They left a whole lot of secrets in the dark >.<
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by _Tri-edge_ »

Satoh wrote:
_Tri-edge_ wrote: After all, the only reason Helba even participated in The World was because of Aura.
Beg pardons sir? When did she say that?

Also there is the theory that "Helba" is a group or organization... it could be that Zelkova is just a different part of "Helba"

But I still believe he's an AI.
Well, after she discovered the secrets of Aura, she basically had no intentions of staying around in R:1 anymore, so I made that assumption.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Kuukai »

When did she say that?
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Satoh »

Well, after she discovered the secrets of Aura, she basically had no intentions of staying around in R:1 anymore, so I made that assumption.
I still don't get that...


An interesting but entirely unrelated note, the name "Bordeaux" is likely a reference to wine, as Bordeaux, France produces wines, 88% of which are red wine. Bordeaux's hair is the color of red wine.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Keyaki »

Kuukai wrote:When did she say that?
It's not really said anywhere, I think its just assumption
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by AuraTwilight »

When Zelkova asked Pi about seeing something besides AIDA in the Outer Dungeons? I'm predicting that he predicted Cubia's prescence, so that could have been a lightbulb flicking on hinting Aura's re-appearence?
I don't remember the timing of the line you're referencing, but I think he might've been referencing Aina. Zelkova can't see something that hasn't manifested yet unless he has ACTUAL precognition.
When did she say that?
It was my speculation, and people are taking it as fact despite my intention once again.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Satoh »

AuraTwilight wrote: It was my speculation, and people are taking it as fact despite my intention once again.
I apologize for that but the way you said it made it seem like you were saying it was a fact, at least to me.


Late last night I had a sudden startling thought that I couldn't think of any direct reason they couldn't be involved...

Couldn't Masato Indou be formerly Helba? By this I mean, couldn't Ovan be Helba?

Helba could be said to be "Old friends with Yata(Wiseman)" Ovan is obviously a hacker of some skill as he 'lived' in the creator's room and heavily modified his and Aina's PC's (in a familiar mostly-white color pattern)

He gave up netslum to an experienced hacker AI, Zelkova, because he had too much to do trying to rid himself of AIDA.

Ovan knows every in and out of the game, like Helba would... He knows inner workings of CC Corp on some level... Like Helba did...

Even his manner of speech and cryptic nature are classic Helb-isms...

So... present your refuting evidence now please? To be honest, this is quickly becoming my favored theory... but I'm not sure I can believe it just yet, even if it would explain a lot.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by _Tri-edge_ »

AuraTwilight wrote:I don't remember the timing of the line you're referencing, but I think he might've been referencing Aina. Zelkova can't see something that hasn't manifested yet unless he has ACTUAL precognition.
This was during the Sakaki PK Tournament arc, before the second match I believe. From our perspective as the gamer, Aina didn't leave the room, or Ovan just noticed her disapperence, until after Yata awakened. From memory, here's the conversation:

Kaede: We're very sorry to have called you out here.

Zelkova: Hi there Haseo!

Haseo: Kaede, Zelkova, what happen to you guys? Matsu said you were just wandering.

Kaede: Well, I guess you can say that. We've become normal players again.

Pi: So, did you want to talk about Sakaki?

Kaede: Well..Yes. It seems that Sakaki is doing as he pleases with the system rights
he's been granted. If this keeps up, the tragedy of Moon Tree will be repeated.

Haseo: Just leave that kind of stuff to us.

Kaede: Yes, but-

Zelkova: Kaede...We understand. We'll leave the tournament to you Haseo...Oh Pi...The Outer
dungeons...Your area hacking programs are really amazing!

Pi: Huh?!

Haseo: How do you know about that?

Zelkova: Have you seen anything else in there? Something besides AIDA

Pi: Eh...

Haseo: So far, we haven't seen anything besides the outer bugs.

ZelKova: I see...
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Keyaki »

Satoh wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote: It was my speculation, and people are taking it as fact despite my intention once again.
I apologize for that but the way you said it made it seem like you were saying it was a fact, at least to me.


Late last night I had a sudden startling thought that I couldn't think of any direct reason they couldn't be involved...

Couldn't Masato Indou be formerly Helba? By this I mean, couldn't Ovan be Helba?

Helba could be said to be "Old friends with Yata(Wiseman)" Ovan is obviously a hacker of some skill as he 'lived' in the creator's room and heavily modified his and Aina's PC's (in a familiar mostly-white color pattern)

He gave up netslum to an experienced hacker AI, Zelkova, because he had too much to do trying to rid himself of AIDA.

Ovan knows every in and out of the game, like Helba would... He knows inner workings of CC Corp on some level... Like Helba did...

Even his manner of speech and cryptic nature are classic Helb-isms...

So... present your refuting evidence now please? To be honest, this is quickly becoming my favored theory... but I'm not sure I can believe it just yet, even if it would explain a lot.

a few problemos

1. Yea Ovan was a hacker at some point, working with Yata though I doubt he hacked Aina's PC..............right?

2. Even though he was a hacker, I highly doubt that he would be the master of something as advanced as Net Slum

3. Ovan's knowledge is pretty much accounted by his hacking, yes

But also his Epitaph Corbenik, all 8 of the Epitaphs of the Infinity 8 have tot he ability to talk to their users, i guess sort-of like a mental PM, i guess

Anyway thats how for example, Ovan new about Haseo having Skeith,etc


EDIT:

Hate to deviate off-topic

But those Outer-Dungeons and the Outer Bugs are one of the things that keep buggin me ( no pun intended)

Just what the hell are they?
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by _Tri-edge_ »

As Pi explained with Haseo and Atoli, Outer dungeons are basically the end results or manifestations of AIDA's prescence in The World. They would be classified as AIDA servers if it wasn't for their small size. Outer bugs are just the vagrant anomalies that roam in them.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by TheSorrow »

1. Yea Ovan was a hacker at some point, working with Yata though I doubt he hacked Aina's PC..............right?
Yes, he hacked Aina's PC and his own PC, though i think all he did was alter the looks. At least, it's the only thing we're sure of, and we can be sure about it because Piros have said how Aina's PC looks aren't supposed to exist normally; he didn't make them nor did any other designer from CC Corp.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

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Late last night I had a sudden startling thought that I couldn't think of any direct reason they couldn't be involved...

Couldn't Masato Indou be formerly Helba? By this I mean, couldn't Ovan be Helba?
No. For one thing, the two have nothing in common, personality-wise, and share no motives. Secondly, Ovan quite simply doesn't know what Helba HAS to know, such as the nature of the Key of the Twilight.
Ovan knows every in and out of the game, like Helba would... He knows inner workings of CC Corp on some level... Like Helba did...

Even his manner of speech and cryptic nature are classic Helb-isms...
Helba didn't speak in plant metaphors, and there's more than one hacker in the world. Furthermore, Ovan has some sort of government position, and allegedly started playing the game with Aina in R:2, not having played R:1. The Creator's Room and the Epitaph of Twilight were both surprises to him, and the load of information he has is either from studying the Creator's Room, talking with his Epitaph/the AIDA, or researching a way to save his sister. He didn't go into the game with any uber-information save for hacking skills.
Zelkova: Have you seen anything else in there? Something besides AIDA

Pi: Eh...

Haseo: So far, we haven't seen anything besides the outer bugs.

ZelKova: I see...
He was probably referring to Aina or something; Cubia wasn't awake yet at that point, so there wouldn't be any Gomorrah to find.
1. Yea Ovan was a hacker at some point, working with Yata though I doubt he hacked Aina's PC..............right?
Ovan did indeed hack Aina's PC.
But those Outer-Dungeons and the Outer Bugs are one of the things that keep buggin me ( no pun intended)

Just what the hell are they?
The face of Za Warudo underneath the public access areas. Think of them as the glitchy beta areas you can find in a video game, like the Minus World in Super Mario Bros. Backdoors and hidden corridors full of incomplete data but...
As Pi explained with Haseo and Atoli, Outer dungeons are basically the end results or manifestations of AIDA's prescence in The World. They would be classified as AIDA servers if it wasn't for their small size. Outer bugs are just the vagrant anomalies that roam in them.
They are also this. Basically, the way I see it is that the AIDA cobbled together crap floating around the servers and allowed backdoors to them to exist, like when you fall into unknown areas in a game when you use a no-clip code. It's not so much that the AIDA are creating them from scratch, but that they warp the data in a way that it's accessible.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Keyaki »

such as the nature of the Key of the Twilight.
Unless Corbenik tells him
Furthermore, Ovan has some sort of government position
Wha?
He was probably referring to Aina or something; Cubia wasn't awake yet at that point
Wait, I remember you in another thread, talking about Cubia and Kite, saying that even though Kite had the Bracelet of Twilight, Cubia didn't really attack Kite right away even though Kite sort-of had a power that had the capability to obtain a power sort-of on par with Aura, thus maybe en-dangering Aura ( I think paraphrasing)

Cubia only did as much as keep tabs on Kite since Aura wasn't really born and was n;t really the Ultimate AI yet.

Maybe, and this is just probably another stupid assumption of mine

But maybe Cubia was there in the beginning, just not as manifested as much as at the end because Haseo wasn't fully the Key of Twilight yet and Cubia must always match the power of the current Key of Twilight to the T., and once again just as with Kite, just keeping tabs on Haseo until it attacked post-Rebirth
The face of Za Warudo underneath the public access areas. Think of them as the glitchy beta areas you can find in a video game, like the Minus World in Super Mario Bros. Backdoors and hidden corridors full of incomplete data but...
They are also this. Basically, the way I see it is that the AIDA cobbled together crap floating around the servers and allowed backdoors to them to exist, like when you fall into unknown areas in a game when you use a no-clip code. It's not so much that the AIDA are creating them from scratch, but that they warp the data in a way that it's accessible.
I KNEW IT!!!
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by AuraTwilight »

But maybe Cubia was there in the beginning, just not as manifested as much as at the end because Haseo wasn't fully the Key of Twilight yet and Cubia must always match the power of the current Key of Twilight to the T., and once again just as with Kite, just keeping tabs on Haseo until it attacked post-Rebirth
Xth Form is the Key of the Twilight. Until it comes into existence, Cubia has no reason to be active.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Master ZED »

AuraTwilight wrote:Xth Form is the Key of the Twilight. Until it comes into existence, Cubia has no reason to be active.
So what of Fidchell's prophecy?

The abberant key, borne in thy left arm.
The Key of Twilight, borne in thy right arm.
The final wave.
The surge of rebirth shall become light and fill the world-
yadda yadda yata....
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by _Tri-edge_ »

Well, Haseo "mirrors" Ovan. As Ovan's left arm became the abberant key, Haseo became the Key of twilight opposite to it.
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Re: Mysteries of characters in .hack: Helba and Zelkova

Post by Master ZED »

_Tri-edge_ wrote:Well, Haseo "mirrors" Ovan. As Ovan's left arm became the abberant key, Haseo became the Key of twilight opposite to it.
So it's not a reference to Corbenik's bracelet?
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