Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

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ataraxia
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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby ataraxia » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:44 pm

What Harald did was unthinkable, at least for the early 2000~2007 period during which Fragment was different. He was decades ahead of his time, but it was still to a vaguely believable extent. There are still a number of issues, but what he accomplished was only on the level of "incredible", and not "completely ridiculous", at least in as far as the series' fictional world goes.

Amagi Jyotaro's Real Digitalization is completely ridiculous. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'm pretty sure transforming humans into light particles and storing them in a computer will not be possible for a long time. Even if, decades from now, someone manages to turn matter into information and store it accordingly, it'll still take decades of research to reach a point where digitalizing living beings would be possible. I can believe that Harald discovered a method to weaken the boundaries between the human mind and digital information. I can believe that Amagi Jyotaro was a brilliant enough man to duplicate that method. What I can't believe is that Amagi Jyotaro manage to complete go beyond those steps and figure out how to turn a fourteen-year-old boy into a Digimon.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby (Phantom) Thief » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:43 pm

That post was faster than expected. To be honest I was still editing my post for reading. But I understand now though. Allow me to continue real digitization is a strong concept and it’s even harder to imagine that someone could use the idea artificially. But if we turn board another way it might become somewhat easier to accomplish. From what we understand during 2015 Jyotaro theorized that it took certain individual based off Harald's work to naturally cross two separate and individual planes of reality and as a result launched the Akashic Line, which after having recorded a natural example of this theory from Tokio was captured by Jyotaro for research. But in programming code known as scanner can often record the users input or in this case information for different light frequencies, and then assign them certain a variable and store the object for future use. Then when the code recalls that variable it duplicates the memory of that item and reprints it through program which after should have been relatively easy as long as Jyotaro was testing different channels throughout the course of the Akashic Line, since its unknown if the exact frequency was known prior to the experiment.

Even so from here we have the true dilemma of real digitization; outer dependency syndrome. No one said the digitization was perfect and as humans are converted they would literally become unstable data, which might be where more disbelief in real digitization lies. My eyes haven't seen anyone mention it but if I recall what happened with Jyoutaro Amagi and Tokio Kuryuu are different results of real digitization. Saya may be a third. In computers data are meaningless figures such as the number 1568005552128101. Without an indication that the 800-555-2128 might be a phone number the information ceases to have use and disappears into the surrounding numbers and becomes represented as a stream of unreadable random data.

By Link Amagi was already trapped in the network as pure data. However Tokio was different. First Tokio was a doubleware and at the beginning of the game before Tokio even woke up Saika had already surpassed her brother by storing the hero in PC duplicate of his own body. The viewers might ask how is that possible but the idea is simple. Programming often has two elements of information. Data and the representation of that data. Saika could have copied data from Tokio turned its type into a PC and then placed him within the data she created, which is an example that none of these are that complicated. At the same time be this as it may for having to think this far, as science fiction the explanation requires a bit more work than one might expect so in conclusion you have some point no matter how many programming concepts it could relate to.
Last edited by (Phantom) Thief on Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby VirusCoreS » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:42 pm

ataraxia wrote:What Harald did was unthinkable, at least for the early 2000~2007 period during which Fragment was different. He was decades ahead of his time, but it was still to a vaguely believable extent. There are still a number of issues, but what he accomplished was only on the level of "incredible", and not "completely ridiculous", at least in as far as the series' fictional world goes.


.hack's real world is Alternate Universe different from ours. I wouldn't be surprised if their technological growth ten time faster than us.

[/quote]Amagi Jyotaro's Real Digitalization is completely ridiculous. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'm pretty sure transforming humans into light particles and storing them in a computer will not be possible for a long time. [/quote]

True, it's not. Anyone real digitalized for too long will turn into something that no longer human and diffused across net space. Like PhantomThief said.

This is wrong. Kite actually found pieces of the Epitaph on his own before being told of their significance. He was only hinted at their connection starting from Vol.2, when Helba mentioned them. Prior to that, they just tried to gather whatever information they could from the BBS and mails. Even then, Helba didn't know everything that was going on, so Kite and his party still had to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. Same with the characters from SIGN. They came to various conclusions on their own, and weren't really told anything until they contacted Helba late in the series. Both times, they did their own research first before managing to obtain help.

As for G.U., while I'm ultimately dissatisfied with how the story played out for the most part, Haseo did attempt to figure out what was going on on his own, even if he was being stupid about it. But Tokio's different. He didn't know anything was going on until it was too late, and by then, helpful characters like Fluegel were around to tell him all the details. There was no need for Tokio to put any effort into speculating or researching anything on his own, and the thought never once occurs to him.


In his defend, I don't think 14 years-old boy would be able to comprehend the situation of being plunged into swirl of mysteries even adults have headache just by thinking it. It's a good think he didn't freaked out and breaking down. He just does what average normal boy does, prefers playing than studying. I will say ignorance is a bliss. He's nothing without people around him, but he's tiny presents bring people together. He serve his purpose well as a "gear". As he grows up now, you'll definitely see the changes...

Kite is different thing, he's a prodigy. Able to keep calm and data drain stuffs, patching up clues, and stay mentally stable (though he still have humanly weaknesses). Even Haseo, who is 17 years-old, having continuous emotional outbursts along the way. And I'm aware and can understands your taste prefer Kite over Tokio.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby Keyaki » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Kite is different thing, he's a prodigy. Able to keep calm and data drain stuffs, patching up clues, and stay mentally stable (though he still have humanly weaknesses). Even Haseo, who is 17 years-old, having continuous emotional outbursts along the way. And I'm aware and can understands your taste prefer Kite over Tokio.


That's stretching it a bit. Kite was just a normal teenager aside from him being ambidextrous. It was just very intuitive. Plus his desire to help his friends along with everyone else including a hacker of extraordinary ability helped him along.

.hack's real world is Alternate Universe different from ours. I wouldn't be surprised if their technological growth ten time faster than us.


Well since we're still completely dependent on fossil fuels and America hasn't made Computer-Generated actress that looks almost completely real, I'd say so.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby ataraxia » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:15 pm

Like I said before, it's not that I dislike Tokio. He just... lacked any semblance of initiative. Most of his journey is kinda just him doing what other people tell him to do, occasionally S.Linking with the protagonist of so-and-so title. And by the time he actually starts thinking for himself, the road before him becomes completely straightforward. My opinion of him would be a lot higher if he at least questioned Saika's actions/decisions or otherwise gave some sort of sign that he's a human being who is capable of thinking and reaching logical conclusions on his own.
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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby VirusCoreS » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:19 pm

Keyaki wrote:That's stretching it a bit. Kite was just a normal teenager aside from him being ambidextrous. It was just very intuitive. Plus his desire to help his friends along with everyone else including a hacker of extraordinary ability helped him along.


I wouldn't say a kid who able to contain such depression and keep outer appearance 'like nothing happened' is normal, not to mention real life problems too. I'm 20 years old and still getting rather depressed over tiny little things etc. Alright, I take back my word, not a prodigy then. But he still possesses above average quality especially his determination and emotion management. :)

Like I said before, it's not that I dislike Tokio. He just... lacked any semblance of initiative. Most of his journey is kinda just him doing what other people tell him to do, occasionally S.Linking with the protagonist of so-and-so title. And by the time he actually starts thinking for himself, the road before him becomes completely straightforward. It's just not really all that interesting.


Ah, I see :)
Last edited by VirusCoreS on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby ataraxia » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:21 pm

In the end, the main problem I have with .hack//Link is that it's a very... "shounen" story. Overly simple and straightforward, highly episodic and generally just doesn't tug at my brain cells the way the original series and occasionally G.U. did. It's basically .hack for Dummies, which I guess I kinda resent. I like stories that make me think, whether philosophically or logically or whatever. It was one of the major reasons I even got into .hack in the first place. Something that kinda challenges me to try and understand it. .hack had that, G.U. had that (more or less), but Link... didn't. It was just "Collect the Chrono Cores! OH WAIT, that was actually the wrong thing to do! And Aura's gone berserk so I guess we'd better go beat her up too!" ... It's very dissatisfying, at least for me, especially when compared to the past titles.
Last edited by ataraxia on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby Keyaki » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:23 pm

I wouldn't say a kid who able to contain such depression and keep outer appearance 'like nothing happened' is normal, not to mention real life problems too.


Did you forget the conversation he and Blackrose had at the beginning of Outbreak?

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby ataraxia » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:33 pm

Kite's probably a lot brighter than most kids his age, but I wouldn't say he's a prodigy. Just unusually mature and more level-headed than most fourteen-year-olds.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby VirusCoreS » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:44 pm

ataraxia wrote:In the end, the main problem I have with .hack//Link is that it's a very... "shounen" story. Overly simple and straightforward, highly episodic and generally just doesn't tug at my brain cells the way the original series and occasionally G.U. did. It's basically .hack for Dummies, which I guess I kinda resent. I like stories that make me think, whether philosophically or logically or whatever. Something that kinda challenges me to try and understand it. .hack had that, G.U. had that (more or less), but Link... didn't. It was just "Collect the Chrono Cores! OH WAIT, that was actually the wrong thing to do! And Aura's gone berserk so I guess we'd better go beat her up too!" ... It's very dissatisfying, at least for me, especially when compared to the past titles.


...My friend said Link is very shounen too. I don't dislike it. Maybe it's CC2 attempts at hooking non-.hack fans to buy the game or the series. Maybe it's a concept of 'mind, body, and soul', represents in each era, three different things that completes each other like I said before.


Keyaki wrote:Did you forget the conversation he and Blackrose had at the beginning of Outbreak?


Did you forget I mentioned
VirusCoreS wrote:... and stay mentally stable (though he still have humanly weaknesses).
before?

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby Keyaki » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:48 pm

Keyaki wrote:Did you forget the conversation he and Blackrose had at the beginning of Outbreak?


Did you forget I mentioned
VirusCoreS wrote:... and stay mentally stable (though he still have humanly weaknesses).
before?


Touche.

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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby (Phantom) Thief » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:37 pm

I say this casually but from a historical status calling Kite ordinary is like claiming Fudo Yusei was just your average duelist from Brooklyn. That's right we see you Mr. I can create cards out of light. Damn protagonists always screwing up someones plan for world domination, insanity and control. Although from a gamers perspective though wasn't the point of Kite's situation to draw players to the story in the first place. I doubt its much different than Link from the Legend of Zelda series.
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Re: Plot of everything on the disc [SPOILERS]

Postby Keyaki » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:41 pm

That's right we see you Mr. I can create cards out of light.


Clever.

Very clever.


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