Really stupid question... (SPOILERS)

[Kuukai]

1. What was being said between Kuhn and Sieg. Seemed hilarious. Like Sieg was insulting Kuhn and by extension himself (Or the type of person he becomes anyways), but I'm completely in the dark.

I don't think Sieg realizes Kuhn is him. Kuhn is like, "What, you're still not over getting dumped?" and tells him there are lots of girls out there. Sieg asks him if that means he has absolutely no regrets, and Kuhn admits he does, but he's trying his hardest to become someone worthy of her. Sieg skeptically asks if she's promised to wait, which damages Kuhn. He says he'd made it into something he doesn't think about. After that they're both just really depressed. It's really funny, reminds me of the South Park episode where Cartman had to deal with himself in the past...

The only other time where someone teamed up with their past form was in X-over, I think. Kite wanted to get to know Haseo better, but Haseo couldn't look at him without seeing Tri-Edge. Tokio desperately looked for common ground to break this ice, but they have almost nothing in common. But then the two Piroshi's show up, and they realize, dealing with them, that they have more in common than they think...

2. What was happening in the Endrance/Bo/Mia/Piros/Natsume conversation.

Piros is really happy about a special PC body Mia gave him for the party, and Tokio is like, "isn't that the exact same color that pissed you off last time?" (in ChapChop) But Piroshi reveals he can change it to any color he wants. It's a revolutionary fashion PC!

Endrance and Bo are planning on going on a picnic to collect Aromatic Grass. They invite Tokio and Co., and Natsume asks if she can join in. She views collecting Aromatic Grass as a deep metaphor for personal growth, and Tokio thinks she's overreading it. Piros then leaves with the usual salutation.

One kinda ambiguous thing is that Zefie comes back. It's not totally clear if she's coming from somewhere within the Akashic Records (which is weird because she's not a Twilight Knight nor is Unison in her time period, so this would be a first) or if it's the real Zefie. She refers to where she's been as "Mama's place" though, and says she needs to return there. She nicknames Saika "exhibitionist" and judges her to have a brother complex and be a "classical tsundere." Saika is angry, and rejects the last two, leading Tokio to wonder about the first.

[AuraTwilight]

I heard the story of //Zero was adapted into the game. We ALL know how that story ends, but think you can give us a synopsis of the details?

[Kuukai]

Well, some things are either a little different or overlap with the novel. Tokio never sees Aura. Sieg and Minase are data drained probably not very long after Sieg talks to her. When Carl finds Sora again, Alph has been data drained, and after begging her to leave Sora turns into Skeith Zero and attacks her, ending in kind of a double knockout where she's data-drained but Skeith Zero, which originally was all of Morganna's data, is split into eight fragments that become the phases. In this way, they become Lost Ones together. After all the coma victims are brought back, Subaru tries to repair Alph and Carl's friendship. After getting them together, Carl acts disinterested and Alph breaks her happy-go-lucky roleplay to call Carl out like she did in the novel, which breaks things down even more. Carl gets an email from Sora and goes looking for him, finds his phantom, and he says "thanks." She never thought he was the kind of person who could say that, and believes that maybe she can finally say it to Alph. In Unison the three of them have made up are all acting like Sora...

[Tolby]

The only other time where someone teamed up with their past form was in X-over, I think. Kite wanted to get to know Haseo better, but Haseo couldn't look at him without seeing Tri-Edge. Tokio desperately looked for common ground to break this ice, but they have almost nothing in common. But then the two Piroshi's show up, and they realize, dealing with them, that they have more in common than they think...

Thanks, that was the X'over I was wondering about the most. Well, pretty much anything with Kite or Blackrose, but that was intrigued me the most because of Haseo's attitude toward Kite.

She nicknames Saika "exhibitionist" and judges her to have a brother complex and be a "classical tsundere." Saika is angry, and rejects the last two, leading Tokio to wonder about the first.

Thats great, just like Zeffie. I was worried she would just say something generic or ambiguously "deep" and not be very Zeffieish. I love her, she needs more screen time.

[AuraTwilight]

That all sounds very awesome, Kuukai. Thanks.

Skeith Zero, which originally was all of Morganna's data, is split into eight fragments that become the phases.

This sounds extremely awesome. But...hold on, doesn't that kind of contradict Macha's existence pre-Skeith? Seems kind of like a retcon.

[Kuukai]

It's not a retcon if Macha still happens. Skeith Zero doesn't show up until after Macha was Data Drained, so I'd say she was a fragment of Morganna used to interact with Tsukasa but taken back into the system to create Skeith Zero...

[Keyaki]

It's not a retcon if Macha still happens. Skeith Zero doesn't show up until after Macha was Data Drained, so I'd say she was a fragment of Morganna used to interact with Tsukasa but taken back into the system to create Skeith Zero...

So your saying that at the end of Sign when Macha was data drained, Morganna absorbed her and used her to create the Skeith in Zero and at the end of Zero, Morganna split itself into the Phases through Skeith?

[Kuukai]

Well Skeith Zero was created in SIGN, and promptly stored in Sora, but otherwise, yes. The database specifically says that Skeith Zero fragments into the other phases. Interestingly enough this happens concurrently with the game. It happens sometime between when Sieg disappears, and the post about Alph I think. I forget how many Skeith scenes that accounts for, but I think it means all of the actual coma victims are the work of Skeith Zero...

Which gives us a new possible explanation for why data drain doesn't do so much against Kite...

EDIT: Nevermind, forgot about Lios's team. Link kinda blurs over them, or the timeline might eliminate them entirely...

[Gemcrim]

Well Skeith Zero was created in SIGN, and promptly stored in Sora, but otherwise, yes. The database specifically says that Skeith Zero fragments into the other phases. Interestingly enough this happens concurrently with the game. It happens sometime between when Sieg disappears, and the post about Alph I think. I forget how many Skeith scenes that accounts for, but I think it means all of the actual coma victims are the work of Skeith Zero...

Which gives us a new possible explanation for why data drain doesn't do so much against Kite...

EDIT: Nevermind, forgot about Lios's team. Link kinda blurs over them, or the timeline might eliminate them entirely...

Would Skeith Zero being so powerful account for why Orca couldn't even scratch him in IMOQ? Also wouldn't the power of Skeith and Skeith's Zero's data drain be irrelevant or about the same thing to Kite who wouldn't be affected due to the bracelet? I thought that explanation itself was already established.

[Kuukai]

Would Skeith Zero being so powerful account for why Orca couldn't even scratch him in IMOQ?

Sure, why not? I'm not sure if that was the the intention but making it a different Skeith solves the various continuity issues. Hooray!

Also wouldn't the power of Skeith and Skeith's Zero's data drain be irrelevant or about the same thing to Kite who wouldn't be affected due to the bracelet? I thought that explanation itself was already established.

This is a theory but I don't think it's ever been confirmed...

[Gemcrim]

Also wouldn't the power of Skeith and Skeith's Zero's data drain be irrelevant or about the same thing to Kite who wouldn't be affected due to the bracelet? I thought that explanation itself was already established.

This is a theory but I don't think it's ever been confirmed...

.hack//Another Birth Vol. 1(US) Page 190:

Skeith's red cross moved behind me. It rose into the are to crucify me as it had Orca.

"No!" Kite slashed, but it didn't even twitch.

It happened in an instant. Light shot from Skeith's hand. My avatar fell to the ground with a thud.

Again, my health verged on death. Everything flickered, indicating that I had been afflicted with virtually every game malady: paralysis, poison, slow, and sleep. Yet somehow I could still move. Is this the grace of the bracelet that Mia talked about? At any rate, I was saved; the Data Drain was ineffective!

Though one can argue Another Birth wasn't completely canon I'd say it followed the Skeith battle close enough as well as parts of the story Kite didn't experience. The fact Blackrose doesn't fall comatose in the story, and noone falls comatose in game in Kite's party (save the end where he doesn't have the bracelet anymore) I think it's safe to say that's accurate.

To be absolutely fair we have no way of seeing Skeith Zero Data Draining Kite and his party, but I'd think the same principle could apply. I also think that were Kite to still have his bracelet in he fight against Corbenik his party might have been able to withstand drain heart. But this is under the assumption that it is no different that Drain Arc to the party as Drain Heart just means MORE RARE ITEMS for Kite, to the phases it may be nothing or may in fact be more powerful, I really wouldn't know.

You can also bring up the argument that the data drain Guardians do isn't as potent as what a phase could do (look at Silver Knight comatose for a short period of time). So Skeith Zero's DD may be even more potent than that of the eight phases. But I still stand ground that the bracelet at least offers some protection, whether full or not against Skeith Zero one can only speculate, but I'll go out on a limb and say it would.

[Kuukai]

Blackrose still only presents it as a theory, she isn't psychic. And the bracelet doesn't seem to prevent Aura from getting data drained right in front of Kite. Then again it wasn't Skeith Zero at that point, either. Actually, there's also the Protect Break explanation, and now that I think of it iirc it's what they give in Ask Piroshi. It's a little wobbly since you don't see protect breaks in the final battle, but since you don't actually see 90% of the people fighting Corbenik I think it's a good explanation. The battle is kind of abstracted. We see a protect break on Orca, and Aura's clearly already been thoroughly defeated before Kite even gets there...

[Gemcrim]

So hey another question on Skeith Zero. Mia... would she still have/be Macha at the start of IMOQ since Skeith Zero doesn't split until later... how does this work if Skeith Zero still you know... has/is Macha as well? Is she just a fragment of Macha now rather than the whole thing and the rest just was funneled to Morganna/SKeith Zero. How does this work?

[_Tri-edge_]

Whoa. Hold up. Going back to data drain and Bracelet protection, I thought that when the target is in "protect break" and is struck by a data drain, it ultimately destroys the target? If this is true, then regaurdless of Kite having a bracelet, data drain would ultimately affect him. Even in gameplay, the same had applied. The only being that I have seen, who is completely unaffected by data drain is Cubia. Could we say that just Data draining without a protect break initiated justs harms the target?

[AuraTwilight]

Protect Break basically allows Data Drain to totally rewrite the subject's data. Without it, the effects are pretty surface-y, like status effects and HP loss and stuff.

[Gemcrim]

Would you think it's safe to say that the bracelet would prevent protect break on Kite and his party at the least?

Also really would like to hear thoughts on Skeith Zero and Mia since I don't see how this works without retcon or a nice **** excuse like OH IT'S AN AI MADE FROM A FRAGMENT OF MACHA AND-

[Kuukai]

Would you think it's safe to say that the bracelet would prevent protect break on Kite and his party at the least?

Could be, or could just be some weird coincidence. But that is the main thing that's different... And if it's a power the bracelet has and Cubia mirrors the same power, that would explain that...

So hey another question on Skeith Zero. Mia... would she still have/be Macha at the start of IMOQ since Skeith Zero doesn't split until later... how does this work if Skeith Zero still you know... has/is Macha as well? Is she just a fragment of Macha now rather than the whole thing and the rest just was funneled to Morganna/SKeith Zero. How does this work?

That's a really good question, since Sieg is talking about Mia before he gets data drained. That scene doesn't happen in Link's timeline, though, so for all we know the fragment we saw in that game could have gone on to become Mia.

But it's possible that in the main timeline Skeith Zero only had the seven loyal fragments, if Skeith Zero was formed at all. Or it's possible the data is split like you said. Or Skeith Zero was split earlier and/or by something other than Tokio and Carl. And/or Aura, who's at best off-camera in the Link version of ZERO, intervenes. Or the fragment is there and breaks off on its own. In the novel timeline Carl and Aura seem to be face to face with Skeith a lot earlier, so that's seem to be a place where things could have gone differently... I imagine the spirit of what happened is still pretty much intact, though...

[Gemcrim]

Could be, or could just be some weird coincidence. But that is the main thing that's different... And if it's a power the bracelet has and Cubia mirrors the same power, that would explain that...

Well going by the fact that Cubia can't be protect broken I'm going to assume that this would be the case. Haven't seen such a thing in the manga or Another Birth Novel. Impossible to do in game, can't data drain things that aren't protect broken. So even though I'm going by game mechanics the fact the game won't let you do such a thing as it wouldn't to monsters before the bracelet, I'm assuming this to be impossible and by extension impossible for Kite to be DD'd. Whether that extends to his party is debatable, I'd say it does since it never occurs anywhere, not even during the Corbenik fight when it uses drain heart, but they didn't have the bracelet anymore anyway(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcMLaE3szYI#t=5m30s)... but then wouldn't Protect break be necessary since it happened to Orca in Infection... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkAK6Vignio#t=7m45s)?

You can argue he had the book of Twilight but he still didn't activate so he's still a normal player, and even IF the book did something (which it doesn't at this point since not opened) shouldn't it offer protection if it had a function? It doesn't, so it's useless, the bracelet itself though we can at least infer that it did SOMETHING in the way of protection looking at Kite never being protect broken, Cubia the same.

Whatever... point is the bracelet at least protects Kite and probably the party as well thanks to what you pointed out with Cubia and what we're aware of.

As for the whole Skeith Zero and Mia thing I more or less am willing to agree that whole fragment thing happens or even that it only had 7/8 parts.

[_Tri-edge_]

@Gemcrim, actually, Cubia can be protect broken, as Haseo and the EU's did so in G.U. Now, even though this is R:2 and it occured in avatar space, I still think that the same rules apply here, simply because, according to Kuukai's previous logic regaurding the avatars having bracelets, that Skeith the 3rd initiated a data drain using that said bracelet. Even so, the data drain was still ineffective. Sooo, back to sqaure one here. We can't exactly pinpoint what exactly would happen if Kite was Data Drained "story-wise" because no one has data drained him, but if we're going by gameplay mechanics, when Kite is Data Drained by a phase, since he had his bracelet for the first 7 phase battles, he, like his party, only suffered status changes and other "surface-y" effects. Now the phases could data drain at anytime, meaning they fired DD's on a pre-protect broken Kite, and or party member. Then again, this is only going by gameplay

[AuraTwilight]

Idea on the Skeith Zero/Mia problem.

It's implied that Macha the Phase and Macha the AI are slightly different, sort of like an AI Epitaph User. Is it possible that when Kitty Maha was Data-Drained, the Epitaph was extracted and Kitty Maha was reincarnated as Mia, and then when Skeith Zero was broken, the Macha data returned to it's "original keeper"?