Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

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Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Video Gamer » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:23 am

We all hate this screen. But what does it mean for the characters when we get it? A friend of mine insists that the characters only have to "re-load" the game, and that they come to no harm because of a game over, but I always thought that something different happened, especially to Kite, and whoever is in his party at the time.
I figured that since the Data Drain power usually makes people go into comas, that Kite would go into a coma if he were to die in the world, due to the data drain power he has. I also figured that since whoever is in his party at the time would be "connected" to him in a way, and would end up in a coma, or hurt in some way, as well.
But since I've only played the first game, watched "Twilight Bracelet," half of "Sign," and half of "Roots," I cant' be too sure of my theory. Can anyone prove or disprove this?

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Master ZED » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:01 am

There are some aspects of the gameplay in all of the seven games that simply do not exist in The World or the story, at least not as described to us in the tales of Kite and Haseo. The Game Over screen is one of those features that has no explanation and should be ignored.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Epitaph Of Daybreak » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:26 am

I think for the charactors they would fall into a coma if they were fighting a databug or phase. The reason i think this is that the only reason kite and his party isnt put in a coma after a phases datadrain is the protectionof the bracelet, but I dont think that it would still save them if they died at the hands of a phase or databug. Remember at numurous time's and in the .Hack//Another Birth books (books of the games) the charactors express their fear of encountering a phase (and databug in the begenning). now why would they be scared of it unless it could put them in a coma as well. (Sorry for the bad spelling)

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Kuukai » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:55 pm

Well, it makes sense in every situation, but the explanation will vary:

A] If your party is killed by normal enemies, everyone loses all levels and equipment gained since they last saved. The screen is a little dramatic for this, but they probably do see some sort of Game Over screen.

B] If you're all killed by an illegal monster, you probably go into a coma. I'm not sure why this would only happen when the whole party is killed, but we do know that a Data Bug put Kazu into a coma and no Data Drain was involved. This is similar to being able to revive players killed by AIDA-PCs in battle in G.U., even though that shouldn't work... Whatever, in any case A still applies...

C] If Skeith is killed in G.U., he's presumably Data Drained and annihilated.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by AuraTwilight » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:24 pm

B] If you're all killed by an illegal monster, you probably go into a coma. I'm not sure why this would only happen when the whole party is killed, but we do know that a Data Bug put Kazu into a coma and no Data Drain was involved. This is similar to being able to revive players killed by AIDA-PCs in battle in G.U., even though that shouldn't work... Whatever, in any case A still applies...
Are we sure about Kazu? Blackrose never actually saw the monster that got him, and when she saw her first Data Bug, just kinda wigged the f*ck out. It might've been Skeith.

Either way, I think only Kite would go into a coma. Everyone else would have the Bracelet's protection so long as Kite has their member address and, for that first time, should be fine, but then the protection's prolly lost. I imagine that Kite only gets into a coma if he overloads on the Virus Meter, causing his character to go all up to hell.
C] If Skeith is killed in G.U., he's presumably Data Drained and annihilated.
Well, annihilated is probably too strong of a word, since other Epitaphs aren't. In the case of an AIDA, Skeith would probably be stolen; if Azure Flame God, rebooted and/or Haseo's character smashed and Skeith goes to someone else. If an Epitaph User, he'd just lose the fight.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Kuukai » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:23 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:Are we sure about Kazu? Blackrose never actually saw the monster that got him, and when she saw her first Data Bug, just kinda wigged the f*ck out. It might've been Skeith.
Actually, that's true, it could have been Skeith. I guess we have no idea what Data Bugs do. It's possible they just cause a normal gameover, or equally possible they cause a coma.
AuraTwilight wrote:Either way, I think only Kite would go into a coma. Everyone else would have the Bracelet's protection so long as Kite has their member address and, for that first time, should be fine, but then the protection's prolly lost. I imagine that Kite only gets into a coma if he overloads on the Virus Meter, causing his character to go all up to hell.
As far as I remember this "bracelet protection" thing is completely non-canon. If Kite overloads it's probably only his problem, but a game over against a DDing boss presumably represents a Protect Break for everyone.
AuraTwilight wrote:Well, annihilated is probably too strong of a word, since other Epitaphs aren't.
Magus was. It was a copy, but an exact copy nonetheless. That probably means it breaks down and returns to the sea of data, but that's what I was referring to.
AuraTwilight wrote:In the case of an AIDA, Skeith would probably be stolen; if Azure Flame God, rebooted and/or Haseo's character smashed and Skeith goes to someone else.
Possibly, they need direct access to Haseo's PC to do that though...
If an Epitaph User, he'd just lose the fight.
Except in the case of Kuhn and maybe Ovan, he'd probably be Data Drained. Definitely so in Yata's case, as we've seen what berserk Avatars like to do.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by AuraTwilight » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:32 pm

Actually, that's true, it could have been Skeith. I guess we have no idea what Data Bugs do. It's possible they just cause a normal gameover, or equally possible they cause a coma.
Right, I doubt Data Bugs cause comas, or we'd have a lot more than six victims during the Infection era, plus it would make it pretty much impossible for people to fight them and spread the news about them on boards, unless EVERY SINGLE REPORTER ran away from their fights.
]As far as I remember this "bracelet protection" thing is completely non-canon. If Kite overloads it's probably only his problem, but a game over against a DDing boss presumably represents a Protect Break for everyone.
According to Another Birth, the Bracelet makes everyone immune to Data Drain's coma effect. Mere elimination of HP shouldn't override this.
Magus was. It was a copy, but an exact copy nonetheless. That probably means it breaks down and returns to the sea of data, but that's what I was referring to.
Skeith was by no means functioning normally in that fight, btw. Plus he IS the Terror of Death, so it could be expected that his power might be more destructive.
Possibly, they need direct access to Haseo's PC to do that though...
Which Data Drain should more or less allow.
Except in the case of Kuhn and maybe Ovan, he'd probably be Data Drained. Definitely so in Yata's case, as we've seen what berserk Avatars like to do.
Yea, alright. Though I don't imagine Kuhn intended to do lasting damage; he just wanted to teach Haseo a lesson and get him to cut the crap.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by _Tri-edge_ » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:14 pm

Which Data Drain should more or less allow.
Didn't Kazumi succeed in doing that?

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by AuraTwilight » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:19 pm

Pretty much.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Kuukai » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:26 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:Right, I doubt Data Bugs cause comas, or we'd have a lot more than six victims during the Infection era, plus it would make it pretty much impossible for people to fight them and spread the news about them on boards, unless EVERY SINGLE REPORTER ran away from their fights.
Yeah, can't really argue with the logic of that...
AuraTwilight wrote:According to Another Birth, the Bracelet makes everyone immune to Data Drain's coma effect. Mere elimination of HP shouldn't override this.
I forget what the exact quote was, but I think we've been through this before and it's fairly open to interpretation...
AuraTwilight wrote:Skeith was by no means functioning normally in that fight, btw. Plus he IS the Terror of Death, so it could be expected that his power might be more destructive.
He was berserk, but other than that he was functioning normally, no different from Fidchell. It might have had something to do with Skeith's ability, but it seems doubtful he'd be that strong so early on...
AuraTwilight wrote:Which Data Drain should more or less allow.
AIDA can use Data Drain?
AuraTwilight wrote:Yea, alright. Though I don't imagine Kuhn intended to do lasting damage; he just wanted to teach Haseo a lesson and get him to cut the crap.
That's what I was saying. Kuhn is the only one who definitely wouldn't Data Drain him after a "Game Over."

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by _Tri-edge_ » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:04 pm

Kuukai wrote:Magus was. It was a copy, but an exact copy nonetheless. That probably means it breaks down and returns to the sea of data, but that's what I was referring to.
So from what you're implying here, Skeith, protect broken, can be completely destroyed or fragmented, and the remains return to the infinte sea of data after a Data Drain?

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Kuukai » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:05 pm

Correct, that's what I'm saying.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by AuraTwilight » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:38 am

He was berserk, but other than that he was functioning normally, no different from Fidchell. It might have had something to do with Skeith's ability, but it seems doubtful he'd be that strong so early on...
He displayed powers that Haseo couldn't/wouldn't use, and never before has a Data Drain of Skeith's actually destroyed a target completely.
AIDA can use Data Drain?
I was referring to the Avatars Skeith fights.
That's what I was saying. Kuhn is the only one who definitely wouldn't Data Drain him after a "Game Over."
Ah, it seems like you were saying something different.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by _Tri-edge_ » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:42 pm

Kuukai wrote:Correct, that's what I'm saying.
This raises a question then. I assume you mean this will happen to every epitaph after we saw Magus break apart, even though it was a copy, and we saw this effect happen in the Azure Flame God battle, causing it to dissipate, but during the avatar epitaph battles, The game forces you to get them into protect break, and then finish them off with a Data Drain, but I've never seen the effect that you described happen to Innis, Corebenik, Macha, Tarvos, Gorre, or Fidchell. The avatar just simply dissapeared, without any hint of them being totally destroyed or fragmented, and we saw in Vol. 3 that it was possible to summon them again, when Atoli awakened Innis for the second time. So, is it really possible to completely destroy an Epitaph avatar with a Protect Broken/Data Drain move?

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by AuraTwilight » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:29 am

The difference is that there was no intent to DESTROY in the other Avatar battles. The effects of Data Drain are usually controlled by the desires of the user.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Kuukai » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:31 pm

Yeah, I agree with that.
AuraTwilight wrote:
He was berserk, but other than that he was functioning normally, no different from Fidchell. It might have had something to do with Skeith's ability, but it seems doubtful he'd be that strong so early on...
He displayed powers that Haseo couldn't/wouldn't use, and never before has a Data Drain of Skeith's actually destroyed a target completely.
I think from above that we're in agreement that this is a "wouldn't." It might also be possible that he can't fully wield that power on his own, but there hasn't been any time he wanted to. We're discussing non-human-piloted Avatars anyway, though...
AuraTwilight wrote:In the case of an AIDA, Skeith would probably be stolen; if Azure Flame God, rebooted and/or Haseo's character smashed and Skeith goes to someone else.
Kuukai wrote:Possibly, they need direct access to Haseo's PC to do that though...
AuraTwilight wrote:Which Data Drain should more or less allow.
Kuukai wrote:AIDA can use Data Drain?
AuraTwilight wrote:I was referring to the Avatars Skeith fights.
Interesting place to refer to them...
AuraTwilight wrote:
Kuukai wrote:Except in the case of Kuhn and maybe Ovan, he'd probably be Data Drained. Definitely so in Yata's case, as we've seen what berserk Avatars like to do.
...
Ah, it seems like you were saying something different.
Ack, yeah, the first sentence was a little ambiguous but there's only one way to read it where the second sentence still makes sense.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by _Tri-edge_ » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:42 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:The difference is that there was no intent to DESTROY in the other Avatar battles. The effects of Data Drain are usually controlled by the desires of the user.
Oh. so the intensity of the Data Drain is controlled by the whim of the user, eh? You think that's what Aura meant
when she gave Orca the installation book?

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Kuukai » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:05 pm

I think that was more part of a motif they had in the original series. Many characters, including the narrator, remark that Kite's power is the very same power that caused the comas in the first place. In the proper hands, however, it was used to save its victims. I don't think Aura was specifically talking about it having settings, though it certainly now makes sense in that context too.

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Akasu » Wed May 06, 2009 7:47 pm

ARGH. You people are too damn smart for me. I'm trying my hardest to get what you guys are saying. Skeith being destroyed, Braclet having settings, Aww, too much info.>_<

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Re: Question about "Game Over" screen (story-related)

Post by Satoh » Thu May 07, 2009 8:49 am

The bracelet of twilight is in fact, just a really modified sword if you think about it.

A sword can bring forth destruction or salvation at the whim of the user.

Even though we are never given the option in the game, it is most likely that the bracelet could be used to data drain anything. I'd assume Kite could cut wholes in fields with it or even put his own party members into a coma with it IF he wanted to. Since Kite is a reasonable and kind person by nature, (the the inherent programming issues) we are never given those types of options...

It would be interesting to play a game where you are truly free to DD anything.

On the Game Over aspect, there are two sides to it.
1.a Characters die normally and are given The World's game over screen, and are then presented with the option to return to their last save point...
1.b Characters in Kite's party are more in the game than normal players, (notice they scream when hit, I attributed this to being able partially feel it, similar to Tsukasa.) This only occurs while they are in Kite's party, as it allows them to fight better. (the grace of the bracelet) However they are protected from data drain at this time as well. (The protection of the bracelet)

2. The party is defeated by infected enemies, they slip into a coma. The reason they ALL must be defeated is simply because the game is not over for them until they are incapable of being revived. As long as on of them survives, The World still has their data, and their minds, in that field. Once all three (two, or one) are defeated, their data is moved elsewhere, normally, but when the viral enemy kills them, their data cannot be properly moved, and they slip into coma, as their minds cannot exit the field.

Also note that when Kite has the bracelet forcibly cut off by Blackrose after fighting Cubia, he seems to anticipate a great deal of pain.

I believe the data bug phenomena is similar to the AIDA server incidents. When the virus enters a field, much larger amounts of data begins being drawn from all present players. Thus when a data bug kills a party, they go comatose, because their minds are in the game. There is evidence that Tsukasa was killed by an abnormal monster( either explicit or implicit, I don't remember right off) and that is why he became stuck in the game. It should be noted that in SIGN, the 'virus' hadn't evolved to the point it had in Infection.

In the mirror server incident, while fighting Corbenik, all of the players present were either already in a coma, and just fighting as separated personalities, or were put into a coma briefly because their personalities were drawn so far into the game due to the bracelet and anomalous data created by Corbenik itself.

Helba is for the most part unaffected by the corruption in the game simply because she doesn't directly access it, but rather, she observes the raw data being transmitted through it. (Much like reading the .echo of a game server bot.) Her character is merely superimposed into the scene when she needs them to see her, she is not directly playing it, but rather hacking it to be there. Lios IS playing his character, (albeit with administrative powers) and hence, he is in more danger than Helba.

That's how I understand it all.

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