.hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

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Keyaki
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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:34 pm

I would also like to translate those emails for posterity. It probably won't be until next week since I'm working at a con.
Let me try:
依頼:マザーデータ

『黄昏の騎士団』パイから
依頼メールが届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>あなたにお願いしたい
>仕事ができたわ。
>ドル・ドナの中央広場に来て。

詳しいことは
2017年のドル・ドナで
パイから直接話を聞くウパ!



未使用

『黄昏の騎士団』パイから
トキオ宛にメールが届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>手記の解読に成功したわ。

>彼の真の目的は……
>叔母である天城綾香の人格を
>デジタル世界の中に
>再生することだったようね。



依頼:カロンの囚人たち#1

フリューゲルから
依頼メールが届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>少年、お元気?
>少ーし頼みたいことがあるんだわ。
>マク・アヌの中央広場に
>来てもらっていいかぁ?
>ああっと、『R:X』のな。

詳しいことは
2020年のマク・アヌで
フリューゲルから直接話を聞くウパ!



依頼:カロンの囚人たち#2

フリューゲルから
依頼メールが届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>いよぉー、少年。
>この前『アカシャ盤』で拾った
>アイテムの分析結果が出たんでな。
>塔の再調査を行うぞ。
>マク・アヌの中央広場に来てくれ。
>『R:X』だぞ。

詳しいことは
2020年のマク・アヌで
フリューゲルから直接話を聞くウパ!



依頼:波果つる世界

『黄昏の騎士団』八咫から
依頼メールが届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>君に頼みたいことができた。
>準備が整ったのなら
>私に報告したまえ。
>指示を出そう。

この依頼は、2007年が
舞台になるみたいウパ。
詳しいことは
八咫から直接話を聞くウパ!



依頼:Unison

『黄昏の騎士団』ヘルバから
パーティーの招待状メールが
届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>2010年のネットスラムで
>騎士団とシックザール合同の
>慰安パーティーを行うわ。
>天城彩花にも、招待状と
>彼女用のPCを送っておいた。
>一緒に参加しなさい。

>受付はネットスラムの
>カオスゲートよ。

詳しいことは
2010年のネットスラムで
ヘルバから直接話を聞くウパ!



依頼:ジーニアスの報告書(未使用)

2014年から差出人不明の
メールが届いたウパ。
未来からのメールなんて
初めてウパよ……?
一応、メーラーに転送するウパ。

>デビッド様

>ご要望の書類をお送りいたします。
>後査収願います。



分析結果

『黄昏の騎士団』八咫から
トキオ宛にメールが届いたウパ。
メーラーに転送するウパよ。

>『碑文の断片』を分析した結果、
>奇妙なことが判明した。
>君以外の『生身の人間』の
>記憶がデータとして
>混じっているようなのだ。
>『リアルデジタライズ』の技術が
>確立されるはるか以前の時代に
>なぜこんな現象が起きたのか?
>詳細は現在調査中だ。



あ!

思い出したよー! トキって
『fragment』のときにわたしと
会ったでしょー!

……そのときはイェーツって
名前のナイスなミドルのPCを
使ってたんだけど。

W・Bイェーツって、わたしの
尊敬する詩人の名前が元ネタ
なんだよ。知ってた?



……なるほど

今だから言うが、初めてトキオに
会ったとき、どこかで聞いたこと
のある声だと思った。

思い出したよ。

オレがグラムだ。
『fragment』の白骨平原では
世話になったな。
バルムンクという名前は、
あの聖剣からとったんだ。



補足

『The World』の前身である
『fragment』に関して、
『生身の人間』の記憶がデータとして
混じっていることを伝えたと思うが、
さらに詳細がわかったので
伝えておこう。

その人物の名はララ・ヒューイック。
彼女はハロルドの姪であり、
父に連れられて叔父の研究室を
訪れた折に何らかのきっかけで
開発中の『fragment』の中に
入ってしまった。

といっても彼女は『fragment』に
PCとして『リアルデジタライズ』
したわけではない。
世界観の基盤となっている
『黄昏の碑文』の物語そのものに
アクセスしたのだ。
『黄昏の碑文』に登場する
『ちび魔女サヤ』に意識を移した
彼女は、碑文通りに冒険を続け、
最後に夕暮れ竜と出会い、
永遠に完結していた世界に
『誕生』をもたらした。

君が『fragment』で聞いたという
少女の声は、かつてあそこを訪れた
ララ・ヒューイックの残留思念だった
のかも知れない。
Translated(Probably roughly):
"Request: Mother data

"Knights of the Twilight" from Pai
~UPA~ which the request mail arrived.
Transfer it to the mailer ~Upa~."

"I want to ask you"

"I got a job."

"Come to the central square of Dol Dona."

"For further information
In dollar / donna in 2017
Listen to the story directly from pie ~Upa!~" (No Idea what the hell this is)

Unused

""Knights of the Twilight" from Pai
~UPA~ sent e-mail to Tokio.
Transfer it to the mailer ~Upa.~"

"I succeeded in deciphering the manuscript."

"His true purpose is ...
The character of Aunaka Amagi who is my aunt
In the digital world
It seems to be to play."

"Request: Prisoners of Karon # 1

From flugel
UPA which the request mail arrived.
Transfer it to the mailer Upa.

> Boy, how are you?
> There is something I'd like to ask a little.
> In the central square of Mac-Anu
> Can I have you come?
> Oh, it is "R: X"."

"For further information
With Mac Anus in 2020
Listen to the story directly from flugel ~Upa!~



Request: Wave field vine

From "Hakka of the Twilight Knights"
UPA which the request mail arrived.
Transfer it to the mailer ~Upa~.

> I could do something I wanted of.
> If you are ready
> Report to me.
> Let's give instructions."

"This request is made for 2007
Upa seems to be a stage.
For further information
UPA who listens directly from Yaga!"

"Request: Unison

"Knights of the Twilight" from Helva
A party invitation email
UPA that arrived.
Transfer it to the mailer ~Upa.~

> In the Net Slam of 2010
> The Knights and the Chiczaar jointly
I will do a comfort party.
> Aka Amagi also has an invitation card and
I sent a PC for her.
> Join together.
>
> Reception is net slam
> Chaos Gate.

For further information
On the Net Slam of 2010
Listen to me directly from Helba ~UPA!~"

"Request: Reports of Genius (unused)

From 2014 the sender is unknown
Upa where the mail arrived.
Mail from the future
For the first time up ... ....?
UP for transfer to the mailer for the time being.

> Dear David,
>
> We will send you the requested documents.
> Please investigate later."

result of analysis

"From "Hakka of the Twilight Knights"
UPA sent e-mail to Tokio.
Transfer it to the mailer Upa.

> As a result of analyzing "fragments of inscription"
> We found out strange things.
> Other than "you human beings of living"
> Memory as data
> It seems to be mixed.
> "Real digitized" technology is
> In much earlier times established
> Why did this phenomenon happen?
> Details are under investigation."

"Ah!

I remembered! To chew
When it is "fragment" with me
You must have met!

...... At that time Yeats is called
Nice name middle PC
I was using it.

W · B Yates is my
The name of the poet who I respect is original
what is it. I knew?"

"……I see

As I say now, for the first time in Tokio
What I heard somewhere when I met
I thought it was a voice of.

I remembered.

I am grams.
In the "white" skeleton of "fragment"
You must be taken care of.
The name Balmunk,
I took it from that holy sword.



Supplement

It is the predecessor of "The World"
Regarding "fragment"
Memory of "living human being" as data
I think I told you that it is mixed,
I found out more details
I will let you know.

That person's name is Lara Hewick.
She is Harold 's niece,
My uncle's laboratory brought to my father
On some occasions when I visited
In the "fragment" under development
I got in.

Even though she is "fragment"
"Real digitized" as PC
I did not do it.
It is the basis of the world view
To the story of "The twilight inscription" itself
I accessed it.
Appeared in "The twilight inscription"
I transferred my consciousness to "Chibi Witch Saya"
She continues adventuring on the inscription street,
Finally I met dinosaurs at dusk,
To the world which was forever completed
"Birth" was brought.

I heard that you were "fragment"
The girl's voice once visited there
It was a persistent thought of Lara Hewick
Maybe."
Ok, so I used Google Translate. I know, I know. Isn't the best translation out there but it was the best I could do to contriubte.

Xu Yuan
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Location: Harald in the R:2!

Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Xu Yuan » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:41 pm

Hmm, where are these from in-game? I didn't even realize MaMa was mentioned in //Link at all and I only recalled the visit to //Fragment was very short. That all sounded rather interesting though. Who is Hakka of the Twilight Knights, by the way? I didn't recognize that name, but they seem to be very knowledgeable on the situation.

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Kuukai
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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:26 pm

I'll have to do a translation when I have time, there are a lot of issues there (there is no Hakka). MaMa wasn't directly mentioned by name in Link as far as I recall, Genius alludes to the Sophia plan in the fast-forward epilogue cutscene, and their story is explained in the New Testament Epitaph included with the special edition of the game.

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Keyaki
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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:33 pm

Xu Yuan wrote:Hmm, where are these from in-game? I didn't even realize MaMa was mentioned in //Link at all and I only recalled the visit to //Fragment was very short. That all sounded rather interesting though. Who is Hakka of the Twilight Knights, by the way? I didn't recognize that name, but they seem to be very knowledgeable on the situation.

Lol, like I said, I used Google Translate so this translation is incredibly rough and frankly, a lot of it looked really nonsensical.

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Kuukai
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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:42 pm

I forget exactly why I grabbed this batch of emails but I went ahead and started translating them for the patch, Kazetrigger saw what I was working on and also pitched in.

Maybe I'll talk more about this in my Oct. 31st Last Recode livestream!
Request: Mother Data

A request email arrived
From Pi of the "Twilight Knights" -upa.
Transferring it to the mailer -upa.

> I have work I would
> like to ask you to do.
> Come to the Central Square of Dol Dona.

For more information,
ask Pi directly in 2017
Dol Dona -upa!
Unused

An email addressed to you arrived
From Pi of the "Twilight Knights" -upa.
Transferring it to the mailer -upa.

>I succeeded in deciphering the notes.
>
>His true objective was...
>Recreating the personality
>of his aunt Ayaka Amagi
>within the digital world.
This was removed from the final game, but I wonder where they were going with this and if it involved Saika and/or AIKA. I would consider it non-canon, as presented in the game it was simply that Ayaka's death inspired him to try to prevent more pointless deaths in the world.
Request: Prisoners of Charon #1

A request email arrived
from Fluegel -upa.
Transferring it to the mailer -upa.

>Kid, are you doing well?
>I have a biiit of a request for you.
>Could I get you to come to
>the Mac Anu Central Plaza?
>Oh! In "R:X".

For more information,
ask Fluegel directly in
2020's Mac Anu -upa!
"Charon" is Hades' ferryman and mentioned metaphorically by Genius at the end of Trilogy, possibly referring as it is here to the Azure Knights.
Request: Prisoners of Charon #2

A request email arrived
from Fluegel -upa.
Transferring it to the mailer -upa.

>Yo, kid.
>The analysis is in from the item you
>picked up in the "Akashic Records".
>Let's reinvestigate the tower.
>Come to Mac Anu's Central Plaza.
>The "R:X" one.

For more information,
ask Fluegel directly in
2020's Mac Anu -upa!
Request: World Ended by a Wave

A request email arrived
from Yata of the "Twilight Knights" -upa.
Transferring it to the mailer -upa.

>I would like your help with something.
>When you are ready
>report to me.
>I will give you your orders.

For this request, it looks like the
stage will be 2007 -upa.
For more information
hear the story from Yata directly -upa!
Request: Unison

There was a party invite
e-mail from Twilight Knight
Helba-upa.
Sending it to the Mailer.

>I'm holding a party for
>the Knights and Schicksal
>in 2010's Net Slum.
>I also sent an invite and
>usable PC to Saika Amagi.
>Come join us.
>
>Check-in is at the
>Net Slum Chaos Gate.

For more information, listen
to the story directly from
Helba in 2010's Net Slum-upa!
Request: Genius' Report (Unused)

An e-mail arrived from an
unknown sender in 2014-upa.
It's the first email from the
future, isn't it-upa?
In any case, sending it to the Mailer-upa.

>Dear David,
>
>I'll send the requested documents.
>Please check your mail soon.
Analysis Results

An e-mail for Tokio arrived
from Twilight Knight Yata-upa.
Sending it to the Mailer-upa.

>A strange things became clear from
>analyzing the "Epitaph Fragment."
>It seems the memories of a
>"raw human" predating you were
>mixed in with the data.
>Why did such a phenomenon occur
>long before the Real Digitalize
>technology was established?
>We're currently investigating the particulars.
Hokuto wrote:Ah!

I juuust remembered! I
met you back when I
played Fragment, didn't I Toki?

...However, at that
time I was using a nice
normal PC named Yeats.

W.B. Yeats is the name
of a poet I admire. Did
you know that?
...I see

I can tell you now, when I first met
you Tokio, I thought I had heard your
voice somewhere before.

Now I remember.

I am Gram.
You helped me out in
Fragment's skeleton field.
I took the name Balmung
from that sword.
Yata wrote:Supplemental

Regarding "fragment," the
predecessor of "The World,"
I believe I conveyed that
"raw human" memories were mixed in
as data, but I'll explain
this in further detail.

The name of that individual is Lara
Hoerwick. She is Harold's niece.
Her father brought her to her
uncle's lab and for some reason
she ended up entering a version
of "fragment" under development.

However, she did not get
Real Digitalized as a PC
into "fragment."
She accessed the story of the Epitaph
of Twilight itself, the basis
for the world's setting.
Her consciousness was transferred
into "Saya the Little Witch" from
the Epitaph of Twilight and
she went on an adventure exactly as in the Epitaph,
in the end meeting the Twilight Dragon and bringing
"birth" to an eternally concluding world.

The girl's voice you heard
in "fragment" may have been
the persisting thoughts of Lara Hoerwick,
who once visited that place.
In this chapter of Link, Yata informs Tokio that the collapse of the Akashi Records has caused the loss of the "Epitaph Fragment" - the crucial data that forms the foundation of the system. To retrieve it, he sends Tokio into fragment. In the misty Skeleton Field quest, he met W.B. Yeats and Gram. Gram looked down on fragment as a buggy game, with bug NPCs and static, but eventually comes to understand and respect that there is a greater truth behind the game. Tokio hears a voice that guides him to the Holy Sword Balmung at the end of the quest, a voice he feels like he heard before, a long time ago:
Lara wrote:Over and over...
The world will... change...
The world will... be reborn...
...The sword will change the world...
O you who change the world...
The sword is here...
Gram feels unqualified to take the sword due to his comments, and no one else can use it, but by hesitating to take the sword they inadvertently solve the quest's riddle and the sword emits a light that clears the field's mist. It emits more light, giving Tokio "Epitaph Fragment."

Continuing my summary of the end of .hack//Epitaph of Twilight:

The situation had repeated countless times before, but the Twilight Dragon said it had "deleted" their memories of it. Lara felt there was something only she could do to change the situation, something she needed to remember. They try to form a plan to counter it but the Twilight Dragon deletes all of the characters besides Lara in fields of floating golden 1's and 0's (which probably looked a lot like this). When it got to Lara, it couldn't delete her. Inspired by this, Lara asked him how he could expect different results if he was always starting over from 0. People learn and grow from their experiences. But as she tries to give examples from her own life, she realizes she can't. Her memories are gone. The Twilight Dragon asks, "You are not Saya, the little witch? Who in the world are you? Why won't you disappear? Why won't you sleep? The Rebirth program should be running." The word "program" reminds her of something she heard in the real world. Since entering this world, she had steadily been losing her memories, but the Twilight Dragon's words reminded her. She tells the Twilight Dragon that she's really from the outside world, and must be here to persuade it. She tells it that the world she comes from can't be reset, and there they call losing your body and sleeping "dying." Rebirth isn't possible. The Twilight Dragon tells her that that world must be peaceful. She tells him that is is not, that conflict is an everyday occurrence, and that while it would be nice it probably isn't going away anytime soon. That conflict may even be necessary as a means of understanding each other. But as long as you're living, it's possible to try over, to reflect on the past and learn from your experiences. The Sprites should be able to do the same thing, it isn't fair to take that away from them.

The Twilight Dragon proclaims that it loves this world, and feels that rebirth is the best course of action. She tells it that it doesn't know the scariness of losing one's memories. It falls silent. She screams to the god of this world, "put everything back to normal!" She tells it that conflict is ugly, and it's natural to want to put an end to it, but that doesn't mean that no one can get along. Since coming to this world, she's learned the importance of friends and memories, the humans and Sprites she met here were filled with a deep love. She tells him that what he calls his "love" for this world is self-righteous and one-sided, and this world belongs to everyone. The dragon is not thinking of anyone, just the single change it wants to see. The thing that most needs to change is the dragon itself. She tells the Twilight Dragon that if the situation really gets bad then it can come out and yell at everyone and set things straight, but starting over from zero just because of a mistake is overprotective. That way everyone can learn and grow.

She manages to convince the dragon to turn things back and resume the normal flow of time. It will see how far they can get restoring the places that were turned into nothingness by the wave, as well. It decided that it wanted to see what results "experience" could bring. But having Lara, who knows the truth, stay, would be a nuisance. Just then, she heard a clattering sound overhead - a keyboard - her uncle trying to help her. The dark sky grew bright - it was the sky of dawn. The place where Bith and Fili had returned to was bright. Everything turned white, and Lara left hoping she had changed the world for the better. When she returned to the real world, only 3 hours had passed on the clock - although months had passed in the game. Her injuries were gone too, but it felt too real to have been a dream. She tried to explain that she had been inside the Epitaph of Twilight, but realized it sounded crazy. She was sure that the world continued on towards an unknown future, with the protection and grace of the Twilight Dragon. A few years later, Harald disappeared. Once again, Lara visited his house with her father. After they had visited, Harald sent her father a spare key out of the blue. Just like last time, she felt for some reason she must go to Harald's work room, and headed there. It was exactly the same as before, just a little dustier, and with the addition of a letter placed in front of a monitor, addressed to Lara with no sender's name, on top of an empty game box for The World.

In the letter, he told Lara of his love for Emma, and how she often spoke to him of the Epitaph of Twilight. Those were very happy times for him, but those times and the story were cut short by her tragic death. He decided that his duty was to give it a conclusion. Emma believed in the endless cycle of death and rebirth, that's why he gave the story that form. He believed that Emma would have ended the story a similar way, because the Epitaph of Twilight is a story about dawn. Being reborn over and over. Restarting over and over. Dawning over and over. But the cycle that he thought would continue on forever was broken by Lara. He wasn't mad. He was experimenting with a "certain program" inside that game, but he couldn't play himself. That is, once inside the game, it requires action from outside the game in order to leave. He predicted his brother would bring his child, but couldn't believe she actually played the game for him. He had to make various improvements, but thanks to Lara the program began working normally. He wasn't wrong. Just as Lara was, he says, children are the key to the future.
Harald's Letter - To Lara wrote: And so, I shall name her Aura.
The shining girl, Aura.
Don't you think it's a good name?
Oh, it's about time. There's somewhere I must go. I must speak with someone.
For Emma's sake, for my sake.
It will be dangerous. However, I can't stop. This is all I can do now. I don't know where I went wrong. Whywhywhy-
The letter cut off in an inexplicable place. Shocked by the letter, and finally with proof that that adventure had not been a dream, Lara's thoughts stumble for a bit. But, based on some details in the letter and some of her research after her first encounter with the Epitaph, she comes to the realization that the "child" may be some kind of AI. But that made the letter feel like a final testament, and she felt her uncle was no longer alive. Deciding that exposing her uncle's secret wouldn't bring him back, she returned home and looked into The World. There were many rumors, and all of them read like urban legends - but she believed. The Key of the Twilight was the Twilight Dragon, and was trying to help solve what was occurring in that world.

The Epitaph of Twilight isn't over.
As long as there are people who desire it, it will surely be spun forever.

Lindz
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:56 pm

Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Lindz » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:47 pm

Since I've been replaying G.U. lately I'm once again wondering when we'll get a clear answer for the very reasons G.U.'s story even happened.

- Aura
Roots, G.U., Terminal Disc... none of these give an exact reason as to why she took off and what they hint at is completely unsatisfying. "She got bored" if thats not an asspull idk what one is! They built Aura up as being amazing and nothing could go wrong in "The World" so long as she was around. She had to get the axe so a new story could unfold within it. In the first .hack saga the plot was already in motion by the time the games started, but through those we came to understand the root of the problems. I can't say the same for G.U.

- AIDA
Where did it come or spawn from? The Harald System was known for spawning AI's, though they were always PC-like with a degree of intelligence. Not sure why bubbles would pop outta it now. However the first time we see an AIDA is early-mid 2016 in the Creator's Room when it goes after Aina. How the heck did it get to a place even Yata couldn't get to? Could AIDA have been something produced by Jyotaro? His condition in Link sure was super bad, but several years earlier? He mighta been going strong still hellbent on surpassing Harald. Either way, AIDA comes and goes in a flash with a terribly unsatisfying origin story.


edit: O.o looks like while I was writing this thread was bumped! time for readin'!

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Falions
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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Falions » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:00 am

Lindz wrote:Since I've been replaying G.U. lately I'm once again wondering when we'll get a clear answer for the very reasons G.U.'s story even happened.

- Aura
Roots, G.U., Terminal Disc... none of these give an exact reason as to why she took off and what they hint at is completely unsatisfying. "She got bored" if thats not an asspull idk what one is! They built Aura up as being amazing and nothing could go wrong in "The World" so long as she was around. She had to get the axe so a new story could unfold within it. In the first .hack saga the plot was already in motion by the time the games started, but through those we came to understand the root of the problems. I can't say the same for G.U.
Maybe she became larger than The World? Hence "she got bored." I think she becomes more like a goddess of the net itself, right? Sure, she can still come and visit (as she does in Redemption and the movie and so on) but I don't think it's her main base of operation anymore. But then the wiki also says that Aura's disappearance causes problems on the net, and these problems are also where AIDA is spawned... maybe by installing the Azure Knights she was trying to create a type of autonomy so she wouldn't have to be working 24/7? Would Aura even care about that? I don't know. Also, to whoever can edit the Wiki's layout: please change it back. I really hate white text on dark backgrounds and the old colours were so much more calming and easier to read.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Xu Yuan » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:24 am

Whoa, Kuukai that sounds like a major plot point to the Entire series that we were not given at all! I suppose it was a fond hope that //Epitaph of Twilight would eventually be released in English but alas. The idea that Lara ended the cycle of Rebirth in order to show the system that it needed to allow people to grow and change is heart-warming and explains the Vagrant AI's in the time of Morganna and Aura. But since this Twilight Dragon appeared to be the system arbiter, wouldn't that make it the proto-Morganna? If the purpose of the Rebirth is to wipe the system and start again from null it may clarify what Morganna's end goal truly was (once her plans had been shattered). She wanted to start again from zero and begin anew. This would allow her to continually "wake Aura" without being superseded by her, since her attempt to prevent the awakening of Aura failed in that iteration, resetting everything, including Aura's progress should have allowed her to play that role. perhaps with a bit clearer understanding of the means to prevent her full awakening.

All in all that was a wonderful translation. Thank you for supplying that Kuukai. I always thought that Lara's adventure was the first hint of "Doubleware" hence when people bring up that //LINK pulled it from nowhere. It also clarifies Harald Note 2, "The living flesh poses a hindrance" after all.

As for why Aura left, we see in G.U. that she has become an uncaring deity for the most part. She delegated her former duties to the PC data of her original protectors. When she is summoned in Hulle Granz she does basically say "You're on your own." She wanted to rise above cause and effect and I somewhat assume that making the network run as efficiently as it did was a strain on her so she retreated to a place for her and her alone (maybe also some of her AI's as well), she thereby decreased her physical presence and caused the network to return to its basics slowing everything down since the network had become dependent on her. She may also have been aware of the various groups that were attempting to manipulate her and chose to avoid those sorts. Aura only becomes active in G.U. when she sees the struggle of everyone against Cubia and allows Ovan to return briefly to assist in vanquishing the Anti-Existence.

I suppose I have a few unanswered questions as well after watching //SIGN again, I assume if there are any answers they're probably in the older archives book like //Analysis.

In Episode 24 or so Morganna repeats the "You, this girl, and I may lead our lives in laughter and smiles..." promise to Macha, which is strange considering Morganna and Macha should have been working together, I suppose by this point Macha's loyalty is wavering, but it's an odd thing all the same. This makes me wonder was this a programmed behavior response that may have originally been meant for Harald? Perhaps Morganna's original purpose to bring "laughter and smiles" to Aura and Harald? She was meant to be a surrogate-mother after all.

In Episode 26 what was Morganna's plan? Her AI copies of Subaru and Tsukasa were great, she had clearly been working on them for a while and she is only thwarted when Tsukasa points out the flaws in the AI Mimiru in not matching the real Mimiru. I especially love this because Morganna clearly did not plan on Mimiru making the trip as she put the warp around Subaru and Tsukasa while Mimiru ran into it and therefore Mimiru's presence is the one that throws off Morganna's deceptions. Was Morganna's plan just to make the three wander around in that field? That doesn't seem very... despairing.

What then breaks the illusion? I can't see that Morganna would have included an "IF they guess the AI isn't real, break the field and bring them to base." My only thought is that Aura is the one to break the field and bring them directly to her as she shows some initiative to floating down to Tsukasa. It definitely was not Morganna's will to bring them there. Since she doesn't even seem aware that they are there until Tsukasa is already in the process of waking Aura. Finally, she had the three directly in her grasp. Was she really relying on just Sora to do... something? Why didn't she use her powers to assault the party? My only thought is that Aura herself was preventing this as I cannot see Morganna wanting to parley in this most important time where her plan was becoming undone before her eyes. This also goes to the ability of the three being able to gate out of that area. When Aura is gone that option is clearly gone, trapping Sora. Another possibility is that she may have been stalling for time in order to summon Skeith to deal with them all.

Is there any canon reason why she takes these quizzical last steps to prevent Aura's awakening through non-aggressive means?

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:02 pm

Falions wrote:
Lindz wrote:Since I've been replaying G.U. lately I'm once again wondering when we'll get a clear answer for the very reasons G.U.'s story even happened.

- Aura
Roots, G.U., Terminal Disc... none of these give an exact reason as to why she took off and what they hint at is completely unsatisfying. "She got bored" if thats not an asspull idk what one is! They built Aura up as being amazing and nothing could go wrong in "The World" so long as she was around. She had to get the axe so a new story could unfold within it. In the first .hack saga the plot was already in motion by the time the games started, but through those we came to understand the root of the problems. I can't say the same for G.U.
Maybe she became larger than The World? Hence "she got bored." I think she becomes more like a goddess of the net itself, right? Sure, she can still come and visit (as she does in Redemption and the movie and so on) but I don't think it's her main base of operation anymore. But then the wiki also says that Aura's disappearance causes problems on the net, and these problems are also where AIDA is spawned... maybe by installing the Azure Knights she was trying to create a type of autonomy so she wouldn't have to be working 24/7? Would Aura even care about that? I don't know. Also, to whoever can edit the Wiki's layout: please change it back. I really hate white text on dark backgrounds and the old colours were so much more calming and easier to read.
She wanted humans to be able to forge their own destiny. Link further solidified this theme - once she was brainwashed to bring about Immortal Dusk, Aura says a lot of things like, "I waited for you to get along on your own, but now I must handle everything." Because... she... loves the world. Oh wow, lots of parallels to the Epitaph there, down to her telling everyone to "sleep." But in any case, she believed in the opposite of Immortal Dusk, she wanted people to forge their own destiny, and may even have feared overstepping or being misused by forces like MaMa.

In the movie she didn't "visit" exactly - she was severely damaged after the virus, wandering the network as much less than a god. By the end of Thanatos Report, she's spent almost as much time captured/brainwashed/damaged/recaptured/lost in a national park as she had being an active or inactive "goddess." I think the meta answer is it's hard to write a story where you have an omnipotent being that can solve all your problems front and center for a long period of time. That would be incredibly boring. Aura works better as a macguffin, a lost golden age and a potential apocalypse all in one. And as a narrative this works, what Aura is doing at any given point in time affects the entire world the story of .hack, providing a connecting thread.
Lindz wrote:- AIDA
Where did it come or spawn from? The Harald System was known for spawning AI's, though they were always PC-like with a degree of intelligence. Not sure why bubbles would pop outta it now. However the first time we see an AIDA is early-mid 2016 in the Creator's Room when it goes after Aina. How the heck did it get to a place even Yata couldn't get to? Could AIDA have been something produced by Jyotaro? His condition in Link sure was super bad, but several years earlier? He mighta been going strong still hellbent on surpassing Harald. Either way, AIDA comes and goes in a flash with a terribly unsatisfying origin story.
It's been explained, but mostly in material from outside the G.U. games themselves. Link covers it pretty well because AIKA's life story is the story of AIDA. The AIDA emerged as a "naturally-occurring" AI. From the random sea of glitches left behind by Aura leaving humanity alone and ceasing to "debug" the internet for them, some of the glitches just happened to be self-reproducing. So in the same way that actual life is thought to have emerged from a chemical chaos, AIDA is a similar thing that formed on the internet. Being beings of the network, AIDA were all connected in some way, and when one attacked Ovan and Aina that aggression spread, but mostly AIDA were curious about humans - this other intelligence that existed on the network. In The World, where mind and network tend to bleed into each other, AIDA interacted with humans on a mental and emotional level, as well as data manipulation. Ovan removed the malignant AIDA from the network using Rebirth, but this still left behind some benign AIDA that had integrated into game data. These eventually became AIKA, a fully capable AI that, while not as powerful as Aura, still possessed AIDA's ability to manipulate memory and emotion, and was able to use this to help save Aura. Her fate after that is unknown, but Tokio is still imbued with powers she gave him and in Versus you can see AIKA spots (colorful versions of AIDA spots) in some of his attacks.
Xu Yuan wrote:Whoa, Kuukai that sounds like a major plot point to the Entire series that we were not given at all! I suppose it was a fond hope that //Epitaph of Twilight would eventually be released in English but alas. The idea that Lara ended the cycle of Rebirth in order to show the system that it needed to allow people to grow and change is heart-warming and explains the Vagrant AI's in the time of Morganna and Aura. But since this Twilight Dragon appeared to be the system arbiter, wouldn't that make it the proto-Morganna? If the purpose of the Rebirth is to wipe the system and start again from null it may clarify what Morganna's end goal truly was (once her plans had been shattered). She wanted to start again from zero and begin anew. This would allow her to continually "wake Aura" without being superseded by her, since her attempt to prevent the awakening of Aura failed in that iteration, resetting everything, including Aura's progress should have allowed her to play that role. perhaps with a bit clearer understanding of the means to prevent her full awakening.
It's not entirely clear what the Twilight Dragon was exactly or what the ultimate impact was, although there are a couple of possibilities. It could have been what became Morganna, or it could have been an attempt to create Aura directly. In some ways, these possibilities aren't that different. Aura and Morganna were reborn together - Morganna was an essential component of Aura. Because the entire history of Harald's work on Aura was trial and error, it's hard to separate intention and outcome. What is clear is that "Rebirth" was something Harald included from the beginning, along with an AI program that controlled the Wave. My best guess is that Lara's impact was to create a Morganna focused on "moving forward" - as we saw in SIGN. However, as components of Morganna were destroyed, the old program began to play out. But all in all, after the novel, there's no longer a constant, unchanging reset, and no matter what The World seems to move forward. But the similarity of the scene at the end of the novel with the scene at the end of the first games and the scene at the end of Link is striking. In all cases, there's a "god" of the world saying sit back, get data drained for a little bit, and let me fix everything.

Also Lara's feedback about experience being important - and her intervention itself - could also have been the catalyst for drawing Aura's data from players.
Xu Yuan wrote:I suppose I have a few unanswered questions as well after watching //SIGN again, I assume if there are any answers they're probably in the older archives book like //Analysis.

In Episode 24 or so Morganna repeats the "You, this girl, and I may lead our lives in laughter and smiles..." promise to Macha, which is strange considering Morganna and Macha should have been working together, I suppose by this point Macha's loyalty is wavering, but it's an odd thing all the same. This makes me wonder was this a programmed behavior response that may have originally been meant for Harald? Perhaps Morganna's original purpose to bring "laughter and smiles" to Aura and Harald? She was meant to be a surrogate-mother after all.
I thought that was the line she often used with Tsukasa? Officially, I think the answer is that Macha is just one "element" of Morganna and may have represented the compassionate aspect of herself she had to convince, and then outright subdue. The later concept of Skeith Zero (That Skeith in ZERO was all eight phases) kinda doesn't mesh well with this. I mean, what did they have in SIGN, Macha Zero and Skeith Negative Zero Point One?
Xu Yuan wrote:In Episode 26 what was Morganna's plan? Her AI copies of Subaru and Tsukasa were great, she had clearly been working on them for a while and she is only thwarted when Tsukasa points out the flaws in the AI Mimiru in not matching the real Mimiru. I especially love this because Morganna clearly did not plan on Mimiru making the trip as she put the warp around Subaru and Tsukasa while Mimiru ran into it and therefore Mimiru's presence is the one that throws off Morganna's deceptions. Was Morganna's plan just to make the three wander around in that field? That doesn't seem very... despairing.

What then breaks the illusion? I can't see that Morganna would have included an "IF they guess the AI isn't real, break the field and bring them to base." My only thought is that Aura is the one to break the field and bring them directly to her as she shows some initiative to floating down to Tsukasa. It definitely was not Morganna's will to bring them there. Since she doesn't even seem aware that they are there until Tsukasa is already in the process of waking Aura. Finally, she had the three directly in her grasp. Was she really relying on just Sora to do... something? Why didn't she use her powers to assault the party? My only thought is that Aura herself was preventing this as I cannot see Morganna wanting to parley in this most important time where her plan was becoming undone before her eyes. This also goes to the ability of the three being able to gate out of that area. When Aura is gone that option is clearly gone, trapping Sora. Another possibility is that she may have been stalling for time in order to summon Skeith to deal with them all.

Is there any canon reason why she takes these quizzical last steps to prevent Aura's awakening through non-aggressive means?
This I would need to rewatch but her options were certainly diminishing, her "plan" was completely backfiring and waking up Aura rather than restraining her. She might have just acted randomly with no overall strategy. Without Skeith or Guardians on a field, her ability to act directly - while still there - seemed to be rare and limited.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Lindz » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:17 pm

Okies so Link cleaned up G.U.'s narrative mess >.> I had gathered some of those elements from all the times I played through it partially translated but never all in one place or with taking G.U. into consideration. Just reinforces my feelings that G.U. or rather R:2 as a wholes pretty much a filler saga.

But even so c'mon Aura. A good 3 year run was all ya had in you? Then again, if hours in the network = minutes in real world time, those 3 years would add up to crapload of time huh?

Also I assumed the Skeith in SIGN was the ZERO version since SIGN then led in the ZERO novels. I know the first and only book came out awhile after SIGN ended but I assume many of these stories were being written concurrently to some extent.

edit: meant to quote this earlier
Falions wrote:Also, to whoever can edit the Wiki's layout: please change it back. I really hate white text on dark backgrounds and the old colours were so much more calming and easier to read.
THIS! I dunno what the hecks going on over there. Its needed some major updates in terms of design (and color!) for a long long time but yuck at the way its been this past week. And colors aside, alot of formattings messed up all over the place or been made just plain worse. Oh and the .hack//New World link on the front page takes ya to the LotT New World album page. >_>; I wouldn't mind "seriously" helping out over there but I feel a coordinated group approach would be needed.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:36 pm

I wouldn't call G.U. "filler" - the story of AIDA might be about as important as Aura at this point. It's spanned multiple generations, and we have yet to see how it resolves.
Lindz wrote:Also I assumed the Skeith in SIGN was the ZERO version since SIGN then led in the ZERO novels.
Yeah... Skeith Zero is a cool concept but if you think about it too hard, I'm not sure how well it adds up.
Lindz wrote:edit: meant to quote this earlier
Falions wrote:Also, to whoever can edit the Wiki's layout: please change it back. I really hate white text on dark backgrounds and the old colours were so much more calming and easier to read.
THIS! I dunno what the hecks going on over there. Its needed some major updates in terms of design (and color!) for a long long time but yuck at the way its been this past week. And colors aside, alot of formattings messed up all over the place or been made just plain worse. Oh and the .hack//New World link on the front page takes ya to the LotT New World album page. >_>; I wouldn't mind "seriously" helping out over there but I feel a coordinated group approach would be needed.
The overall style tanked when Wikia decided to go all web 2.0 to get millennials somehow or something (they didn't think it would look good on Wikipedia, why did they think it would look good here?). I tried to fight it but they hit us with a CSS stick and we were stuck with it. It looks like someone just put in an adoption request and might be learning as they go. I fell behind after there was a large volume of editing I didn't have time to quality control a while back, so it looks like I've been retired. It would be great if more skilled people want to work on improving the wiki, it's an open, collaborative project. I just don't have time for it at this point. Since they only have one administrator now, anyone with a lot of time and energy who wants to do that could probably apply. PM me and I'd be happy to recommend you.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Erroneous » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:22 am

Kuukai wrote:
Lindz wrote:
Falions wrote:Also, to whoever can edit the Wiki's layout: please change it back. I really hate white text on dark backgrounds and the old colours were so much more calming and easier to read.
THIS! I dunno what the hecks going on over there. Its needed some major updates in terms of design (and color!) for a long long time but yuck at the way its been this past week.
The overall style tanked when Wikia decided to go all web 2.0 to get millennials somehow or something (they didn't think it would look good on Wikipedia, why did they think it would look good here?). I tried to fight it but they hit us with a CSS stick and we were stuck with it.
As you can see here.

http://dothack.wikia.com/index.php?name ... entChanges

Over the last 7 days, there has been changes done to the MediaWiki:Wikia.css page which affects all of the wiki's layout.

http://dothack.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikia.css

I'd fix it, however the page is protected and only editable by certain usergroups set by the administrator for .hack//Wiki; Aleksandr Lux Kaelum‎ and Nicolas de Leão‎.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Lindz » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:24 pm

Kuukai wrote:I wouldn't call G.U. "filler" - the story of AIDA might be about as important as Aura at this point. It's spanned multiple generations, and we have yet to see how it resolves.
Hey no fair! Thats only in retrospect! Back in 2006/2007 when seeing this story and ending for the first time it certainly left me feeling very ???. If, like G.U. did, Link or whatever else came next went on to start its own set of issues unrelated to Aura/AIDA then G.U. would feel even more outta place >.<;

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:34 pm

Every page and user has a talk page, so that's a good first step to resolving an issue on a locked page.

I guess that's true, but the first series wrapped up rather cleanly. LotTB is even more fillery. .hack is a collection of standalone stories that connect together in some way. I liked G.U. because I felt like it told a good story, and with the Terminal Disc, etc. they definitely moved the overall story forward in a way that connected everything together.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:13 pm

Oook! Time for me to try and compartmentalize and synch this up with everything else I know at this point

So with the summary of the Epitaph of Twilight, the Twilight Dragon caused the Cursed Wave as a way to stop the conflict going on in the epic's world. And with this talk of Rebirth, what are talking about here? The Cursed Wave being the Dragon's way of issuing rebirth?

And how could any of the interaction between Lara and the Twilight Dragon relate to Morganna at all? I know Lara was real-digitalized but how could she be wind up in the world of the Epitaph? It was just a story.
My best guess is that Lara's impact was to create a Morganna focused on "moving forward" - as we saw in SIGN.
I don't remember that...

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:54 pm

Lara ended up in an early version of the game. The formula for Aura was always "Epitaph+Harald's genius=Aura" - Harald put the Epitaph into the game, we knew this. That novel just shows the form it took. The Epitaph was never completed, and it wasn't an AI cookbook, so Harald needed to fill in some stuff his own way. As the emails say, Lara wasn't a player, she took on the role of a character in the Epitaph. It wasn't a game so much as a digital manifestation of Emma's work, with a couple key changes. Because the Epitaph didn't have an ending and Emma believed in the cycle of life and death, Harald gave it a cyclical conclusion. Harald imbued the characters with intelligence and emotion, but the Twilight Dragon was far more aware - a control system that used words like "program" and "delete" - and when Harald said he was testing a "certain program" it seems likely that was all connected. Since the Twilight Dragon manipulated the Wave and what we now call Morganna manipulated the Wave, and because the Epitaph is the essential system data for The World, and Morganna is the system of The World, and factors of Morganna are called "Epitaphs"... I'd say there's some sort of connection. The Dragon's motivation was that it loved the world and wanted to save it, Harald may have given it a new job after that. Or wrapped this all up and made this simulation one of the building blocks underlying Morganna and The World.

The Wave was destroying the world, presumably to clear the slate for Rebirth but also to give the sprites a chance to work together. But the sprites came up with the "wrong answer" every time, failing to cease their fighting in a meaningful way quickly enough, so the Twilight Dragon just looped things but it always went the same way. The Wave destroying the land and the Rebirth restoring it are both tools in Morganna's arsenal.

But although Morganna has new problems, being stuck in a loop doesn't seem like one of them. Her goal with Tsukasa is to slow Aura's growth so she can continue on forever. Although she did delete Lycoris, maybe she was truly unsalvageable? But even then, Lycoris was never truly deleted or reset, and lives on in the end product of Aura. So the lesson of moving forward and learning from the past rather than slamming "undo" over and over seems to have been learned.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:07 am

Lara ended up in an early version of the game. The formula for Aura was always "Epitaph+Harald's genius=Aura" - Harald put the Epitaph into the game, we knew this. That novel just shows the form it took. The Epitaph was never completed, and it wasn't an AI cookbook, so Harald needed to fill in some stuff his own way. As the emails say, Lara wasn't a player, she took on the role of a character in the Epitaph. It wasn't a game so much as a digital manifestation of Emma's work, with a couple key changes. Because the Epitaph didn't have an ending and Emma believed in the cycle of life and death, Harald gave it a cyclical conclusion. Harald imbued the characters with intelligence and emotion, but the Twilight Dragon was far more aware - a control system that used words like "program" and "delete" - and when Harald said he was testing a "certain program" it seems likely that was all connected.
Ok, so I was right in believing that Lara was real-digitalized in a version of Fragment. And I assume that this "certain program" was real-digitalization? Or the ability of learning from mistake to progress forward and acclimating that to an AI to learn and evolve?

If anything, we know that the Epitaph was never completeld. Erna, having faked her death for reason I can't understand, chose not to finish it. She probably thought that it was enough to manipulate Harald into doing what he was supposed to. Regardless, we knew from the beginning that the epic was about to two half-sprites and a human(Lara) searching for the Twilight Dragon to help stop the Cursed Wave. Guess we finally know how it was stopped.
The Wave destroying the land and the Rebirth restoring it are both tools in Morganna's arsenal.
That'd explain Corbenik. Both in the Epitaph and in the game.

Although she did delete Lycoris, maybe she was truly unsalvageable? But even then, Lycoris was never truly deleted or reset, and lives on in the end product of Aura. So the lesson of moving forward and learning from the past rather than slamming "undo" over and over seems to have been learned.
I honestly don't how she was salvageable. Her behavior in //SIGN was enough proof to see that she was too far gone. How Lycoris appeared in Net Slum 5 years after the fact is beyond me.
I, partly, doubt that was actually her. Her surviving all this time with Aura also existing would kinda just be weird. Like Morganna decided to just use Alberio, not to destroy her, but reduce her to state where she couldn't progress. Like turning her into a vegetable.

Lycoris being a failed version of Aura has always been odd to me because I've been given the impression that Aura was around since the very beginning and, even so some AIs came close, they were never allowed to become the Ultimate AI and would eventually just be brought back down to Zero (Hah! MGS4 reference!).

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:44 am

Keyaki wrote:Ok, so I was right in believing that Lara was real-digitalized in a version of Fragment. And I assume that this "certain program" was real-digitalization? Or the ability of learning from mistake to progress forward and acclimating that to an AI to learn and evolve?
I feel like the email explains this the best:
However, she did not get
Real Digitalized as a PC
into "fragment."
She accessed the story of the Epitaph
of Twilight itself, the basis
for the world's setting.
Her consciousness was transferred
into "Saya the Little Witch" from
the Epitaph of Twilight and
she went on an adventure exactly as in the Epitaph,
in the end meeting the Twilight Dragon and bringing
"birth" to an eternally concluding world.
I think the "certain program" was AI, the Dragon, as part of creating Aura. The story also helps explain this quote from the game:
Harald wrote: Humans have physical limits, but the AI has no limits to growth.
I want to know where it will lead. I want to see what lies there.
The ultimate AI makes mistakes just like humans
There is no growth without error.
The difference is not to repeat the same mistake.
Yeah, I'm not completely certain about Lycoris, but I think she does live on in Aura in some capacity.

I will (hopefully) be livestreaming Last Recode tomorrow night!

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:09 pm

I feel like the email explains this the best:
However, she did not get
Real Digitalized as a PC
into "fragment."
She accessed the story of the Epitaph
of Twilight itself, the basis
for the world's setting.
Her consciousness was transferred
into "Saya the Little Witch" from
the Epitaph of Twilight and
she went on an adventure exactly as in the Epitaph,
in the end meeting the Twilight Dragon and bringing
"birth" to an eternally concluding world.
Meaning...Harad made another "beta" version of The World more-related to the world of Epitaph of Twilight? Like simply just a game rendition of the epic?
I think the "certain program" was AI, the Dragon, as part of creating Aura.
Another AI created to help in Aura's development as the Ultimate AI?

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:01 pm

I think so. It's basically a data representation of the Epitaph that underlies everything else.

Traditionally that AI is thought of as Morganna, it's not clear what the connection to the dragon is exactly but there definitely is one.

Last Recode didn't answer a lot of questions outside of the ones it asked, but it heavily implies Zelkova is an AI, and not Helba. He calls the creator of Net Slum a "certain super hacker" and says that he will live on in some form even if R:2 ends, even though Kaede is worried about where he will go. He quickly accepts Kusabira's claim that they are  siblings, even though he had no idea who she was or that he had a sibling. This just deepens the mystery of Zelkova further with the revelation that Kusabira is the true Tri-Edge - the AIDA of Ovan's arm, also called the "black AIDA," attempting to return to him and coexist. Does this mean Zelkova is the colorful AIDA that eventually becomes AIKA? And how do the two of them relate to Spoke? It really just makes things even more confusing. I'm waiting for the infobooks, and apparently the Audio Drama might cover some new plot points as well.

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