.hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

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Kuukai
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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:41 pm

Vallen wrote:
Erroneous wrote:Thanatos = Aura's back and being kept safe and hidden.
Did the whole "mama" thing get resolved?
Aura wasn't "safe" and "hidden" so much as brainwashed, hit with an amnesia stick, kidnapped, and then dropped off a bridge. Numerous things about the MaMa incident have yet to be resolved - there are still dangerous believers out there, and their full role in the history of .hack needs to be established a bit more.
Lindz wrote:Ovan's apparently still missing.
This is obnoxious because it was alluded that he was back, then alluded that he was still missing, and now it's being alluded that they're really going to bring him back, but all of it is just allusions and they haven't been very specific about him, ever. Hopefully Last Recode will put some nails in all of it, considering Returner is otherwise actually really important to the events of the 3rd Season.
Lindz wrote:Theres also the 13th Bansyoya file and what it entails.
This one is annoying because they've retconned that guy so many times. I'm pretty sure they've hammered down that this isn't Tarvos being lost after R:X, so in that case it could be basically anything. If we're super lucky the fact that they're including the Terminal Disc in Last Recode and want to use it as a launchboard for more games means that they might put that in.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Believe it or not (And if I can ever find the link again), there was a description of what happened to Ovan after G.U., that I found on a Japanese Blog that talked about what CC2 covered during one of the .hack//T.E. events. However, I'm not sure accurate the information really is. I also kinda wanted to hold back on saying anything until I either translated it myself to with some sort of mind blowing post on Ovan or finally gave up and handed it over to Kuukai. (I think your right about the Bansyoya File) And why Naviko still isn't ruler of the game is still a mystery for me.
I would really like to see this.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:AIKA!!!!!
As in, her fate? This is definitely a big unknown, although it's hinted she's still out there and Tokio retains powers from her.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Helba
We will never know her true identity.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Algiers
I'm not sure if New World will end up as much more than a sidestory.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Jun Bansoya
He died, I forget if it was foul play or natural causes but this I think we know
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Emma Wielant
She's Erna, we know just about everything about this but it would be nice to see it dramatized in some way.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Veronica Bain
Elements of MaMa are still out there.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Smith (*darts eyes*)
Presumably an NAB agent, Eleanor had a bunch of silent guys in her group so there's one place he could end up...
(Phantom) Thief wrote:The final fate of Harald Hoewick (Dude is still stuck in the game technically)
If Jotaro Amagi could be fixed, it's possible he could be. Otherwise he's probably been corrupted or Outer Dependency Syndromed away by now.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Cubia XXXX - from the main timeline
Doesn't exist, is an alternate history based on distortions in the Akashic Records. That said, both Cubia and the Akashic Records being part of the game, he is one potential manifestation of Cubia.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Beast of Apocalypse from the main timeline
Doesn't exist, is an alternate history based on distortions in the Akashic Records. He is a wandering AI that spawned from Haseo's rage toward Ovan. Haseo took him in as his responsibility and he ceased to be along with the other Twilight Knights. It would be interesting if they somehow worked Trilogy elements such as B-st Form or Liar's Smile into Last Recode, but I wouldn't count on it (even though it's an amazing song and Link used it well).
(Phantom) Thief wrote:8 Epitaph Users From Original R.A. Project
I doubt they'll be that important, other than Kuhn.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Originator of Pluto's Kiss (The four year old kid that came after Yuri Seto)
Probably a scapegoat for MaMa? I'm not sure if that's fully clarified yet.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Fate of the Twilight Knights after, After 2021
Pretty sure they ceased to be.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:The disappearance of Durga Fida Sharma
This I don't remember anything about, would need to read up on.
Lindz wrote:With Bullet and New World over I was remembering this thread an got to wondering:

Did/Does CC2 have an endgame in mind?

Leaving some stuff unresolved for the sake of mystery or future development is all well an good. But overall just how many games/sagas were they intending with .hack and the whole online game affecting the real world stuff? Theres a long history of stories in just about any medium ending without closure due to various reasons. Somehow I feel like New World / N.U. wouldn't have been the end of things even if it hadn't gotten shuttered. An that kinda gives the impression they were gonna keep on at it until the well dried up without regard to overall story? Re-reading the posts here kinda makes it feel that way, what with how theres so many characters/things unlikely to be touched on again.
With Link they answered a lot of open questions about the past, and even about Link itself, while working in the non-canon and incomplete elements in a workable way and setting up an epic overall plot that can receive an "ending." I think they are working towards an end to at least this overall arc but they need Bandai Namco funding in order to do that on the scale anyone would want.
Vallen wrote:I would guess stuff to do with the real world, since supposedly we'll see Haseo's player irl
Was there news about that?
Keyaki wrote:It got canceled.
Exactly - Kikuya Megane's team was too busy working on the actual game to keep up with the manga advertisement for it.
EDIT:
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Originator of Pluto's Kiss (The four year old kid that came after Yuri Seto)
Probably a scapegoat for MaMa? I'm not sure if that's fully clarified yet.
Actually he was 10, and his name is Warren Block (Source: the new Kite novel)

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Vallen » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:19 pm

Kuukai wrote:
Vallen wrote:I would guess stuff to do with the real world, since supposedly we'll see Haseo's player irl
Was there news about that?
That is the rumor, that the "new never before seen side of Haseo" will be a glimpse of his real player. Unless they're keeping it limited to his new in-game form. It's all speculation at this point, nothing more.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:43 am

The "never-before-seen side of Haseo quote" was from the first press release, with a closeup of the face of his new form. After that they revealed his new form more fully in the teaser. At this point I'm thinking that is what it is.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:19 pm

f Jotaro Amagi could be fixed, it's possible he could be. Otherwise he's probably been corrupted or Outer Dependency Syndromed away by now.
I doubt that. And even so, his body has long since become wormfood.
This one is annoying because they've retconned that guy so many times. I'm pretty sure they've hammered down that this isn't Tarvos being lost after R:X, so in that case it could be basically anything. If we're super lucky the fact that they're including the Terminal Disc in Last Recode and want to use it as a launchboard for more games means that they might put that in.
...Uhh, did I miss something? What was retconned? And Tarvos isn't being lost after R:X?


This is obnoxious because it was alluded that he was back, then alluded that he was still missing, and now it's being alluded that they're really going to bring him back, but all of it is just allusions and they haven't been very specific about him, ever. Hopefully Last Recode will put some nails in all of it, considering Returner is otherwise actually really important to the events of the 3rd Season.
Firstt the end of Vol.3, then //Quantum. But when was it alluded that he was actually returning?

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:49 am

Keyaki wrote:...Uhh, did I miss something? What was retconned? And Tarvos isn't being lost after R:X?
That was hard to word, I didn't mean to outright claim that Tarvos went missing after R:X, just put it forward as a possibility for a "13th Bansyoya file" if they wanted to be mundane about it. Tarvos was sent to Reiko with the batch of files so that's potentially a name for it. Or not.

The exact nature of Bansyoya and Amagi's work, the fire, etc., have been changed a few times.
Keyaki wrote:Firstt the end of Vol.3, then //Quantum. But when was it alluded that he was actually returning?
Returner seemed to at the time.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by (Phantom) Thief » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:15 pm

Kuukai wrote:
Lindz wrote:Ovan's apparently still missing.
This is obnoxious because it was alluded that he was back, then alluded that he was still missing, and now it's being alluded that they're really going to bring him back, but all of it is just allusions and they haven't been very specific about him, ever. Hopefully Last Recode will put some nails in all of it, considering Returner is otherwise actually really important to the events of the 3rd Season.
Lindz wrote:Theres also the 13th Bansyoya file and what it entails.
This one is annoying because they've retconned that guy so many times. I'm pretty sure they've hammered down that this isn't Tarvos being lost after R:X, so in that case it could be basically anything. If we're super lucky the fact that they're including the Terminal Disc in Last Recode and want to use it as a launchboard for more games means that they might put that in.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Believe it or not (And if I can ever find the link again), there was a description of what happened to Ovan after G.U., that I found on a Japanese Blog that talked about what CC2 covered during one of the .hack//T.E. events. However, I'm not sure accurate the information really is. I also kinda wanted to hold back on saying anything until I either translated it myself to with some sort of mind blowing post on Ovan or finally gave up and handed it over to Kuukai. (I think your right about the Bansyoya File) And why Naviko still isn't ruler of the game is still a mystery for me.
I would really like to see this.


Would you believe I had started a draft for this very moment?

Image
Source:http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/archives/51865186.html wrote: :8月14日追記

第9回.hack//chの質疑応答コーナーで補足説明がありました。

・ドミニクドミラボーはアウラ派でも反アウラ派でもどちらもない。単なる思想を持っていた人。その下でアウラ派と反アウラ派の派閥争いがある。
・エレノアはmamaの人間だがアウラ派。アウラ派の思惑を通す為に反アウラ派のトップであるヴェロニカと手を組んだ。
・PFW自体は反アウラ派の組織。結果としてソウルデジタライズの元となる部分を開発して、それを引っさげてシックザールPCが作られた。

・オーヴァン=犬童雅人は現在設定が公開されているところまでは意識不明のまま。


ドミニク自身は人類休止が出来ればそれでいいと思ってる感じですかね?
その為にアウラを使えるなら使うし、反アウラ派が新しい技術を提唱すればそれを使うみたいな。
エレノアは組織図のせいで少々分かりづらかったけどmama内部にもアウラ派があるのは確定。
PFWはどちらかなのかよく分からない(元々ジーニアスが曽我部さんのことを拾ってきて、その曽我部さんが設立に関わっているはずなのでアウラ派であるCCジャパンとの関係が深いはずだが、電子監獄のような反アウラ派の為の技術も作ってたり)けど反アウラ派ということで妄想の材料が増えました。

そして3rdシーズンの事件とは直接的には関係しないけどオーヴァンは再誕後も意識不明のままで確定。これはT.E.で佐伯さんがシャムロックの姿をしていた理由でちらっと触れていて、意識不明のままかどうか曖昧だったのですが確定となりました。「現在公開されてる範囲では意識不明のまま」ということで目覚める希望はありそうですね。
Then sometime after that the user mentions about a hypotheses they had and how it was talked about later on.
Source:http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/archives/51910041.html wrote:

・佐伯令子の調査内容

.hack//Quantumでは.hack//G.U.の登場人物の一人であるパイのプレイヤーである佐伯令子が再登場しました。

bdcam 2011-02-07 22-55-33-292

佐伯さんはG.U.時点ではCC社に所属していましたが、G.U.事件の後国連の下部組織であるNAB(ネットワーク管理局)に入局。調査員としてネットワークにまつわる事件を調査しています。

ちなみに.hackシリーズでは.hack//G.U.のオーヴァン(犬童雅人)、ドットハック セカイの向こうにのデビッドがNABの調査員です。

QuantumではTheWorldR:Xで発生した未帰還者の調査で、主人公アスミとイオリに接触を図った佐伯さんでしたが
R:Xでは佐伯さんはパイではなくシャムロックという別のキャラクターを使用。

bdcam 2011-02-07 22-54-44-262


髪型が少し違うことを除けばG.U.に登場したオーヴァンの妹「アイナ」にそっくりなこのPC。

.hackはネットゲームが舞台なので、キャラメイク(キャラの見た目)にはゲーム的な仕様である程度の制限が存在し、当然キャラクターの容姿はある程度被るというのも設定上存在しています。
過去作なら司とエルク、ブラックローズとミミル、アトリと志乃らがそうですね。
が、シャムロックに関してはQuantumの劇中で佐伯さんが「別件の失踪者を探すのに都合がいいので使っているだけ」と明言。

「アイナ」にそっくりなPCを使うことで都合がよくなる失踪者とは誰か?
この件については2011年末に行われたトークイベント「.hack//T.E.」にて設定が公表されました。

オーヴァン=犬童雅人の精神が放浪AI化したという仮説を立て、彼を探す為にTHEWORLDにログインした。
その際、犬童雅人の妹、愛奈のPCと同タイプのものを使用した。

ここで失踪者=オーヴァンで確定。

彼の足取りについてはG.U.の後半から昏睡状態に陥り、その後.hack//G.U.Returnerのラストシーンでアイナ本人とオーヴァンらしき人物が再開するというシーンでG.U.シリーズは幕を閉じました。
T.E.で公表された設定には犬童雅人の精神が放浪AI化したなどという嫌な予感がひしひしと伝わってくる内容が書かれていますが、この設定公表から一年半後に行われたファン向けの生放送番組「.hack//ch」にて新たな設定が判明というか確定。

「オーヴァンは現時点(2013年8月)で設定が公開されているところまでは意識不明のまま」

G.U.Returnerはいわゆるご想像にお任せします的な終わり方で、あれを見た人はゲームの段階では生死不明な感じだったけど、事件の後にオーヴァンが帰ってきて(帰還者=Returnerになって)綺麗に終わったと普通は考えると思います。
あの終わり方で3rdシーズンになってからわざわざ昏睡状態のままであり佐伯さんに調査させているという設定を作り起こしたのだから、今後何かしらの展開があると見てまず間違いないのではないかと。
There were also two more blogs that mentioned something on it. But I haven't had the links to them in some time much less the video or place where all this originally went down so I just kinda let it roll and kept what might have happened to Ovan as my own little head cannon, which kinda goes with what happened in G.U.+. (I think out of the other two sites one was a yellow site with some minor bullet points and the other one where the user always post some fan art)
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:AIKA!!!!!
As in, her fate? This is definitely a big unknown, although it's hinted she's still out there and Tokio retains powers from her.
Yeah, Link mentions the possibility of her being able to repair herself, but then that begs to question if she's finally back then why hasn't she been able to get in contact with them like she had before. Its very sad when you think about it but awesome in the sense that her hero Tokio is about to set out to go rescue her one more time like when they were children...
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Helba
We will never know her true identity.
I have hope...
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Jun Bansoya
He died, I forget if it was foul play or natural causes but this I think we know.
I think they mentioned something about it the novels but I don't have it on hand so I can't say.
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Emma Wielant
She's Erna, we know just about everything about this but it would be nice to see it dramatized in some way.
Agreed plus I'd love to see some sort of action mystery romance thriller that revolves around shady organizations and the like. That and I also have some strong doubts about her "accident" being just an accident. What interest me though is how it all went down, from her introduction to mama to her playing Harald like a fiddle and her and her eventual finale. If I had to take a guess she was planning to out mama in the end.
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Smith (*darts eyes*)
Presumably an NAB agent, Eleanor had a bunch of silent guys in her group so there's one place he could end up...
Hmm..

Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Cubia XXXX - from the main timeline
Doesn't exist, is an alternate history based on distortions in the Akashic Records. That said, both Cubia and the Akashic Records being part of the game, he is one potential manifestation of Cubia.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Beast of Apocalypse from the main timeline
Doesn't exist, is an alternate history based on distortions in the Akashic Records. He is a wandering AI that spawned from Haseo's rage toward Ovan. Haseo took him in as his responsibility and he ceased to be along with the other Twilight Knights. It would be interesting if they somehow worked Trilogy elements such as B-st Form or Liar's Smile into Last Recode, but I wouldn't count on it (even though it's an amazing song and Link used it well).
Those were initial thoughts as well. But... looking over it a little something about doesn't add up. Although the event for Cubia and Beast happened within The Akashic Records, they also had their own appearance as part of The Twilight Knight in The World R:X. However The Twilight Knights are the 100 recreated characters who exist as manifestation of Aura's memories of The World and like Kite they were summoned and turned to stone long before most of the distortions by Tokio and Saika in the Akashic Records even occurred.is it possible for Aura to have memories of an event that never occurred...?: How did this happen: were they created from Aura's re-imagination different events, could there have been something after the events of the original G.U., were they something Aura created in the moment, is there a multiverse occurring withing the game, was this explained within the game or did the distortions occur even earlier than I thought.


Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:8 Epitaph Users From Original R.A. Project
I doubt they'll be that important, other than Kuhn.
I just think it would be and interesting story to go into. What sort of people beside the epitaph users we know could even be consider compatible for a project like that.

Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Fate of the Twilight Knights after, After 2021
Pretty sure they ceased to be.
I'm still confused over how they came back in the first place. So I figure at the least as long as the records are there, they might be somewhere in an endless sea of data.
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:The disappearance of Durga Fida Sharma
This I don't remember anything about, would need to read up on. [/qoute]

Its talked about a little in bullet. At some point after Link he disappears leaving the P-COM to Ryuuji however sometime after that his whereabouts are thought to be unknown. Mind you I haven't finished reading the entire thing so it might have been solved by now.
Kuukai wrote: EDIT:
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Originator of Pluto's Kiss (The four year old kid that came after Yuri Seto)
Probably a scapegoat for MaMa? I'm not sure if that's fully clarified yet.
Actually he was 10, and his name is Warren Block (Source: the new Kite novel)
*_*
Keyaki wrote:
f Jotaro Amagi could be fixed, it's possible he could be. Otherwise he's probably been corrupted or Outer Dependency Syndromed away by now.
I doubt that. And even so, his body has long since become wormfood.
Reverse Digitization!! (But yeah I guess your right, though I would like to see a series involve how all this went down)

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:50 pm

(Phantom) Thief wrote:Would you believe I had started a draft for this very moment?
Thanks!
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Image
This was basic knowledge after G.U., but it says Ovan was an investigator with the NAB's Japan branch. He became unconscious right after the resolution of the 3rd World Network Crisis. It also states that the large "cast" in which he contains his AIDA was created by him with a combination of his Epitaph's power and hacking skill gained on NAB missions. Reiko is searching for him. So this is one place where his current status is confirmed.

It's been a long time and I've forgotten a lot, but I do vaguely remember reading a similar writeup (it's how we know that Hermit's stick was created by Fluegel's organization).
Source:http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/archives/51910041.html wrote:

・佐伯令子の調査内容

.hack//Quantumでは.hack//G.U.の登場人物の一人であるパイのプレイヤーである佐伯令子が再登場しました。

bdcam 2011-02-07 22-55-33-292

佐伯さんはG.U.時点ではCC社に所属していましたが、G.U.事件の後国連の下部組織であるNAB(ネットワーク管理局)に入局。調査員としてネットワークにまつわる事件を調査しています。

ちなみに.hackシリーズでは.hack//G.U.のオーヴァン(犬童雅人)、ドットハック セカイの向こうにのデビッドがNABの調査員です。

QuantumではTheWorldR:Xで発生した未帰還者の調査で、主人公アスミとイオリに接触を図った佐伯さんでしたが
R:Xでは佐伯さんはパイではなくシャムロックという別のキャラクターを使用。

bdcam 2011-02-07 22-54-44-262


髪型が少し違うことを除けばG.U.に登場したオーヴァンの妹「アイナ」にそっくりなこのPC。

.hackはネットゲームが舞台なので、キャラメイク(キャラの見た目)にはゲーム的な仕様である程度の制限が存在し、当然キャラクターの容姿はある程度被るというのも設定上存在しています。
過去作なら司とエルク、ブラックローズとミミル、アトリと志乃らがそうですね。
が、シャムロックに関してはQuantumの劇中で佐伯さんが「別件の失踪者を探すのに都合がいいので使っているだけ」と明言。

「アイナ」にそっくりなPCを使うことで都合がよくなる失踪者とは誰か?
この件については2011年末に行われたトークイベント「.hack//T.E.」にて設定が公表されました。

オーヴァン=犬童雅人の精神が放浪AI化したという仮説を立て、彼を探す為にTHEWORLDにログインした。
その際、犬童雅人の妹、愛奈のPCと同タイプのものを使用した。

ここで失踪者=オーヴァンで確定。

彼の足取りについてはG.U.の後半から昏睡状態に陥り、その後.hack//G.U.Returnerのラストシーンでアイナ本人とオーヴァンらしき人物が再開するというシーンでG.U.シリーズは幕を閉じました。
T.E.で公表された設定には犬童雅人の精神が放浪AI化したなどという嫌な予感がひしひしと伝わってくる内容が書かれていますが、この設定公表から一年半後に行われたファン向けの生放送番組「.hack//ch」にて新たな設定が判明というか確定。

「オーヴァンは現時点(2013年8月)で設定が公開されているところまでは意識不明のまま」

G.U.Returnerはいわゆるご想像にお任せします的な終わり方で、あれを見た人はゲームの段階では生死不明な感じだったけど、事件の後にオーヴァンが帰ってきて(帰還者=Returnerになって)綺麗に終わったと普通は考えると思います。
あの終わり方で3rdシーズンになってからわざわざ昏睡状態のままであり佐伯さんに調査させているという設定を作り起こしたのだから、今後何かしらの展開があると見てまず間違いないのではないかと。
As we know from Quantum, when Pi says that her Aina-looking PC is related to a "separate missing person case" and that "with certain exceptions" everyone came back, she's talking about Ovan. At .hack//T.E. they explained that she's operating under the theory that his consciousness became a Vagrant AI. I hadn't heard this before (I saw the pictures, but I don't think I ever saw a transcript), but that would actually give a satisfactory explanation to Returner. I do vaguely remember that .hack//ch mentioned Ovan is still in a coma. The author goes on to speculate that if they're going through the trouble of building this up after the satisfying, open-to-interpretation ending of Returner, then they must be planning something. In other words, the author was foreseeing Last Recode. I wonder how far back they planned this? Their projects are known to overlap a lot.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Yeah, Link mentions the possibility of her being able to repair herself, but then that begs to question if she's finally back then why hasn't she been able to get in contact with them like she had before. Its very sad when you think about it but awesome in the sense that her hero Tokio is about to set out to go rescue her one more time like when they were children...
It's definitely a dangling plot thread. She may need to regrow like Aura. Maybe somebody will come across some spots on their screen... Because of Returner, her fate might not be entirely unconnected to Ovan's when you think about it. If Ovan, as Tri-Edge was linked to the AIDA, and his Wandering AI introduced them to the fledgling benevolent AIDA that eventually became AIKA, then it's wouldn't be the most surprising thing if whatever allowed Ovan to come back removes her hurdle as well. We'll just have to see how it unfolds in Last Recode. Of course I'm still assuming that's what the special event is, but seriously, that's what it is.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:That and I also have some strong doubts about her "accident" being just an accident.
IIRC she never died, she just ceased to be undercover. She's still around, she just faked her death.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Those were initial thoughts as well. But... looking over it a little something about doesn't add up. Although the event for Cubia and Beast happened within The Akashic Records, they also had their own appearance as part of The Twilight Knight in The World R:X. However The Twilight Knights are the 100 recreated characters who exist as manifestation of Aura's memories of The World and like Kite they were summoned and turned to stone long before most of the distortions by Tokio and Saika in the Akashic Records even occurred.is it possible for Aura to have memories of an event that never occurred...?: How did this happen: were they created from Aura's re-imagination different events, could there have been something after the events of the original G.U., were they something Aura created in the moment, is there a multiverse occurring withing the game, was this explained within the game or did the distortions occur even earlier than I thought.
The Akashic Records were created to manipulate Aura, distortions within the records of The World are the same as distortions within the history of its Ultimate AI. Aura fought back with the Twilight Knights but it might not have been with a 100% canon timeline. Changes within the Akashic Records affect the Twilight Knights themselves as well.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I'm still confused over how they came back in the first place. So I figure at the least as long as the records are there, they might be somewhere in an endless sea of data.
The given explanation is that Aura summoned them to oppose Schicksal, and Schicksal disbanding causes them to loose that purpose and cease to oppose them - like Cubia after Kite and BlackRose destroyed the bracelet. If Aura was still around maybe she could help them, but at that point she's missing.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:13 am

I didn't mean to outright claim that Tarvos went missing after R:X, just put it forward as a possibility for a "13th Bansyoya file" if they wanted to be mundane about it
I still dont follow...

(Shocker I know...)
At .hack//T.E. they explained that she's operating under the theory that his consciousness became a Vagrant AI. I hadn't heard this before (I saw the pictures, but I don't think I ever saw a transcript), but that would actually give a satisfactory explanation to Returner.
Meaning...Ovan became an AI after the 3rd Network Crisis?
In other words, the author was foreseeing Last Recode.
Ok, that's a bit of a jump to assume. It's not like these HD Remaster collections are often planned by developers. At least I doubt, a lot of them seem to happen due to fan outcry.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:37 am

Oops, I made a couple of updates to that last post before I realized there was a response.
Keyaki wrote:
I didn't mean to outright claim that Tarvos went missing after R:X, just put it forward as a possibility for a "13th Bansyoya file" if they wanted to be mundane about it
I still dont follow...
I just mean that one possible but boring explanation could be that in 2015 of so Reiko gets 13 files. The 12th is "Sister it's up to you, I'm including the Avatar I stole" which we've all seen on the terminal disc. The 13th is Tarvos. Then, after Quantum, in the shift between R:X and FORCE:ERA, degradation or just the server change causes her to lose it. Then Fluegel has it, and calls it the 13th file. It's probably more interesting that that, I'm just saying that if you think about it, that was "a" 13th file.
Keyaki wrote:Meaning...Ovan became an AI after the 3rd Network Crisis?
Like Tsukasa. Or maybe more like Orca, where he's he's harder to find.
Keyaki wrote:Ok, that's a bit of a jump to assume. It's not like these HD Remaster collections are often planned by developers. At least I doubt, a lot of them seem to happen due to fan outcry.
That said, they've explained that G.U. development overlapped with Quarantine, Trilogy development overlapped with G.U., Link development overlapped with Trilogy, The Movie overlapped with Link, and Versus with that so it's not that much of a stretch to suppose they were laying hooks for a potential remaster around the time of The Movie and Versus, even if Bandai Namco was being stingy with the money and the PS4 was only out as an SDK. They also keep saying they have a large number of projects in the pipeline, and like the author says, why even drag this back up if you're not planning to use it somehow?
Source:http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/archives/51865186.html wrote: :8月14日追記

第9回.hack//chの質疑応答コーナーで補足説明がありました。

・ドミニクドミラボーはアウラ派でも反アウラ派でもどちらもない。単なる思想を持っていた人。その下でアウラ派と反アウラ派の派閥争いがある。
・エレノアはmamaの人間だがアウラ派。アウラ派の思惑を通す為に反アウラ派のトップであるヴェロニカと手を組んだ。
・PFW自体は反アウラ派の組織。結果としてソウルデジタライズの元となる部分を開発して、それを引っさげてシックザールPCが作られた。

・オーヴァン=犬童雅人は現在設定が公開されているところまでは意識不明のまま。


ドミニク自身は人類休止が出来ればそれでいいと思ってる感じですかね?
その為にアウラを使えるなら使うし、反アウラ派が新しい技術を提唱すればそれを使うみたいな。
エレノアは組織図のせいで少々分かりづらかったけどmama内部にもアウラ派があるのは確定。
PFWはどちらかなのかよく分からない(元々ジーニアスが曽我部さんのことを拾ってきて、その曽我部さんが設立に関わっているはずなのでアウラ派であるCCジャパンとの関係が深いはずだが、電子監獄のような反アウラ派の為の技術も作ってたり)けど反アウラ派ということで妄想の材料が増えました。

そして3rdシーズンの事件とは直接的には関係しないけどオーヴァンは再誕後も意識不明のままで確定。これはT.E.で佐伯さんがシャムロックの姿をしていた理由でちらっと触れていて、意識不明のままかどうか曖昧だったのですが確定となりました。「現在公開されてる範囲では意識不明のまま」ということで目覚める希望はありそうですね。
It was ambiguous before .hack//T.E., but there they stated that as far as it's been revealed, Ovan is still in a coma.

I vaguely remember this too, .hack//ch explained the pro-Aura (Eleanor) and anti-Aura (Versus) factions of MaMa. Dominique is in the middle, she doesn't care how it's done she just wants humans to stop trashing the Earth and slowly killing ourselves (is she... is she even wrong?). Veronica is the top of the faction that wants to use Aura (makes sense), Eleanor joined forces with her. PFW (Fluegel's research institute originally started under Genius) is against using Aura (does it ever work?), researching other ways to digitalize humanity (the stick, Digital Penitentiary, Schicksal PCs, etc.)

With this level of background detail, it really makes you wonder what they're working on.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:46 pm

Kuukai wrote:Oops, I made a couple of updates to that last post before I realized there was a response.
Keyaki wrote:
I didn't mean to outright claim that Tarvos went missing after R:X, just put it forward as a possibility for a "13th Bansyoya file" if they wanted to be mundane about it
I still dont follow...
I just mean that one possible but boring explanation could be that in 2015 of so Reiko gets 13 files. The 12th is "Sister it's up to you, I'm including the Avatar I stole" which we've all seen on the terminal disc. The 13th is Tarvos. Then, after Quantum, in the shift between R:X and FORCE:ERA, degradation or just the server change causes her to lose it. Then Fluegel has it, and calls it the 13th file. It's probably more interesting that that, I'm just saying that if you think about it, that was "a" 13th file.
Funny, I always assumed The Morganna Factor of The Avenger was just an attachment to Jun Bansoya's video diary as a whole.
Kuukai wrote:
Keyaki wrote:Meaning...Ovan became an AI after the 3rd Network Crisis?
Like Tsukasa. Or maybe more like Orca, where he's he's harder to find.
Well, to my understanding; as we all know, when Orca fell into coma his PC was destroyed. I've always believed that also meant that his consciousness was also somewhat scattered throughout the world until Aura was able to piece it and Orca's PC back together. Unlike Tsukasa's case where his consciousness was attached to his PC body.

Seeing how Ovan went down, I suppose that either scenario could be a possible outcome. Actually, now that you've mentioned it, I suppose Ovan and Tsukasa could be seen as "metaphorical" AIs.
Kuukai wrote:
Keyaki wrote:Ok, that's a bit of a jump to assume. It's not like these HD Remaster collections are often planned by developers. At least I doubt, a lot of them seem to happen due to fan outcry.
That said, they've explained that G.U. development overlapped with Quarantine, Trilogy development overlapped with G.U., Link development overlapped with Trilogy, The Movie overlapped with Link, and Versus with that so it's not that much of a stretch to suppose they were laying hooks for a potential remaster around the time of The Movie and Versus, even if Bandai Namco was being stingy with the money and the PS4 was only out as an SDK. They also keep saying they have a large number of projects in the pipeline, and like the author says, why even drag this back up if you're not planning to use it somehow?
Source:http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/archives/51865186.html wrote: :8月14日追記

第9回.hack//chの質疑応答コーナーで補足説明がありました。

・ドミニクドミラボーはアウラ派でも反アウラ派でもどちらもない。単なる思想を持っていた人。その下でアウラ派と反アウラ派の派閥争いがある。
・エレノアはmamaの人間だがアウラ派。アウラ派の思惑を通す為に反アウラ派のトップであるヴェロニカと手を組んだ。
・PFW自体は反アウラ派の組織。結果としてソウルデジタライズの元となる部分を開発して、それを引っさげてシックザールPCが作られた。

・オーヴァン=犬童雅人は現在設定が公開されているところまでは意識不明のまま。


ドミニク自身は人類休止が出来ればそれでいいと思ってる感じですかね?
その為にアウラを使えるなら使うし、反アウラ派が新しい技術を提唱すればそれを使うみたいな。
エレノアは組織図のせいで少々分かりづらかったけどmama内部にもアウラ派があるのは確定。
PFWはどちらかなのかよく分からない(元々ジーニアスが曽我部さんのことを拾ってきて、その曽我部さんが設立に関わっているはずなのでアウラ派であるCCジャパンとの関係が深いはずだが、電子監獄のような反アウラ派の為の技術も作ってたり)けど反アウラ派ということで妄想の材料が増えました。

そして3rdシーズンの事件とは直接的には関係しないけどオーヴァンは再誕後も意識不明のままで確定。これはT.E.で佐伯さんがシャムロックの姿をしていた理由でちらっと触れていて、意識不明のままかどうか曖昧だったのですが確定となりました。「現在公開されてる範囲では意識不明のまま」ということで目覚める希望はありそうですね。
It was ambiguous before .hack//T.E., but there they stated that as far as it's been revealed, Ovan is still in a coma.

I vaguely remember this too, .hack//ch explained the pro-Aura (Eleanor) and anti-Aura (Versus) factions of MaMa. Dominique is in the middle, she doesn't care how it's done she just wants humans to stop trashing the Earth and slowly killing ourselves (is she... is she even wrong?).
Heh, not really unfortunately. Especially nowadays.
Veronica is the top of the faction that wants to use Aura (makes sense), Eleanor joined forces with her. PFW (Fluegel's research institute originally started under Genius) is against using Aura (does it ever work?), researching other ways to digitalize humanity (the stick, Digital Penitentiary, Schicksal PCs, etc.)
Wait, We still don't even know what Hermit's Black Stick actually does. Do we? And the Digital Bastille was shut down(though I suppose nothing's stopping its reinitalization) but say Mama decided to go with Soul Digitalization instead of Real Digitalization, what could they do? Keep them imprisioned inside the Digital Bastille? Or make PCs fo every person in the world? Because both sound too outrageous to work.

With this level of background detail, it really makes you wonder what they're working on.
You mean, world-wide Digitalization isn't their only goal?

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:07 pm

Keyaki wrote:Well, to my understanding; as we all know, when Orca fell into coma his PC was destroyed. I've always believed that also meant that his consciousness was also somewhat scattered throughout the world until Aura was able to piece it and Orca's PC back together. Unlike Tsukasa's case where his consciousness was attached to his PC body.

Seeing how Ovan went down, I suppose that either scenario could be a possible outcome. Actually, now that you've mentioned it, I suppose Ovan and Tsukasa could be seen as "metaphorical" AIs.
Yeah, I think red-bandaged Sora would fall into this category too.
Keyaki wrote:Wait, We still don't even know what Hermit's Black Stick actually does. Do we?
I would need to rewatch Quantum but wasn't it connected to the Bastille?
Keyaki wrote:And the Digital Bastille was shut down(though I suppose nothing's stopping its reinitalization) but say Mama decided to go with Soul Digitalization instead of Real Digitalization, what could they do? Keep them imprisioned inside the Digital Bastille? Or make PCs fo every person in the world? Because both sound too outrageous to work.
The Bastille was a proof of concept, and it was just one line of research the anti-Aura faction's PFW institute was pursuing. The Shicksal PCs were another - a "halfway" point where you're mentally further into The World than a normal player. All of this research was funded by MaMa in hopes that it would somehow lead to an alternative to Real Digitalization. In the same way that the Real-Digitalization faction has failed at controlling Aura they have also failed at developing something to fully achieve their goals, but some potential is there. If your goal is to keep everyone "alive" but get rid of their bodies, Real and Soul Digitalization are probably your first and second best option.
Keyaki wrote:
With this level of background detail, it really makes you wonder what they're working on.
You mean, world-wide Digitalization isn't their only goal?
Oh I just meant CC2. I wonder what they have in mind.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Lindz » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:58 pm

Kuukai wrote:I vaguely remember this too, .hack//ch explained the pro-Aura (Eleanor) and anti-Aura (Versus) factions of MaMa.
Question!

Does the anti-Aura group hate Aura or like Aura? I can them hating her if they dun care ta see people ruled by an AI. But I figure they could also be anti-Aura in the sense that they love her so much they don't wanna see her being used and abused as has been done in the past.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:46 pm

In this case it's just short for anti-"Aura is the solution to our problem" - as a group each member probably has their own personal reasons for believing that (just as the pro-using-Aura faction all has their own reasons), but in any case it's a coalition of those who believe developing other technology is necessary.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:38 am

I would need to rewatch Quantum but wasn't it connected to the Bastille?
Last time we discussed this, all I remember is that Hermit was using it to scan for potential donors to help cure his illness. Aside from that, no one sure where it came from or how Hermit got his hands on it or why he had it. But it possibly came from Mama.
The Bastille was a proof of concept, and it was just one line of research the anti-Aura faction's PFW institute was pursuing. The Shicksal PCs were another - a "halfway" point where you're mentally further into The World than a normal player.
That sounds like the "anti- Aura" faction existed even before //Versus. Nevermind the apparent fact that Fluegel was working for the enemy this whole time.
Oh I just meant CC2. I wonder what they have in mind.
Besides thinking of new ways of covering their asses everytime something goes wrong in The World and cooking up new versions? Lol I doubt we'll see anything unless Mama decides to manipulate them again.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by (Phantom) Thief » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:59 am

Thank You for the post. I've been waiting a long time to see what everything was about and its good to see some things about Ovan finally cleared up. Sorry for the late reply I know it should have been sooner (I just couldn't figure out what to type).
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Would you believe I had started a draft for this very moment?
Thanks!
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Image
This was basic knowledge after G.U., but it says Ovan was an investigator with the NAB's Japan branch. He became unconscious right after the resolution of the 3rd World Network Crisis. It also states that the large "cast" in which he contains his AIDA was created by him with a combination of his Epitaph's power and hacking skill gained on NAB missions. Reiko is searching for him. So this is one place where his current status is confirmed.
Boom!!. So we finally know for sure. We never knew for sure about how his cast came to be so that's good. I love that this is being confirmed now. So hopefully we'll come across more like this in the future. I wonder what's going to happen to him.
Kuukai wrote: It's been a long time and I've forgotten a lot, but I do vaguely remember reading a similar writeup (it's how we know that Hermit's stick was created by Fluegel's organization).
Source:http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/archives/51910041.html wrote:

・佐伯令子の調査内容

.hack//Quantumでは.hack//G.U.の登場人物の一人であるパイのプレイヤーである佐伯令子が再登場しました。

bdcam 2011-02-07 22-55-33-292

佐伯さんはG.U.時点ではCC社に所属していましたが、G.U.事件の後国連の下部組織であるNAB(ネットワーク管理局)に入局。調査員としてネットワークにまつわる事件を調査しています。

ちなみに.hackシリーズでは.hack//G.U.のオーヴァン(犬童雅人)、ドットハック セカイの向こうにのデビッドがNABの調査員です。

QuantumではTheWorldR:Xで発生した未帰還者の調査で、主人公アスミとイオリに接触を図った佐伯さんでしたが
R:Xでは佐伯さんはパイではなくシャムロックという別のキャラクターを使用。

bdcam 2011-02-07 22-54-44-262


髪型が少し違うことを除けばG.U.に登場したオーヴァンの妹「アイナ」にそっくりなこのPC。

.hackはネットゲームが舞台なので、キャラメイク(キャラの見た目)にはゲーム的な仕様である程度の制限が存在し、当然キャラクターの容姿はある程度被るというのも設定上存在しています。
過去作なら司とエルク、ブラックローズとミミル、アトリと志乃らがそうですね。
が、シャムロックに関してはQuantumの劇中で佐伯さんが「別件の失踪者を探すのに都合がいいので使っているだけ」と明言。

「アイナ」にそっくりなPCを使うことで都合がよくなる失踪者とは誰か?
この件については2011年末に行われたトークイベント「.hack//T.E.」にて設定が公表されました。

オーヴァン=犬童雅人の精神が放浪AI化したという仮説を立て、彼を探す為にTHEWORLDにログインした。
その際、犬童雅人の妹、愛奈のPCと同タイプのものを使用した。

ここで失踪者=オーヴァンで確定。

彼の足取りについてはG.U.の後半から昏睡状態に陥り、その後.hack//G.U.Returnerのラストシーンでアイナ本人とオーヴァンらしき人物が再開するというシーンでG.U.シリーズは幕を閉じました。
T.E.で公表された設定には犬童雅人の精神が放浪AI化したなどという嫌な予感がひしひしと伝わってくる内容が書かれていますが、この設定公表から一年半後に行われたファン向けの生放送番組「.hack//ch」にて新たな設定が判明というか確定。

「オーヴァンは現時点(2013年8月)で設定が公開されているところまでは意識不明のまま」

G.U.Returnerはいわゆるご想像にお任せします的な終わり方で、あれを見た人はゲームの段階では生死不明な感じだったけど、事件の後にオーヴァンが帰ってきて(帰還者=Returnerになって)綺麗に終わったと普通は考えると思います。
あの終わり方で3rdシーズンになってからわざわざ昏睡状態のままであり佐伯さんに調査させているという設定を作り起こしたのだから、今後何かしらの展開があると見てまず間違いないのではないかと。
Kuukai wrote:As we know from Quantum, when Pi says that her Aina-looking PC is related to a "separate missing person case" and that "with certain exceptions" everyone came back, she's talking about Ovan. At .hack//T.E. they explained that she's operating under the theory that his consciousness became a Vagrant AI. I hadn't heard this before (I saw the pictures, but I don't think I ever saw a transcript), but that would actually give a satisfactory explanation to Returner. I do vaguely remember that .hack//ch mentioned Ovan is still in a coma. The author goes on to speculate that if they're going through the trouble of building this up after the satisfying, open-to-interpretation ending of Returner, then they must be planning something. In other words, the author was foreseeing Last Recode. I wonder how far back they planned this? Their projects are known to overlap a lot.
I noticed that as well. CC2 seems like they have been thinking of a remake since 2011. But as for the newer content at the very least there have been pictures of Haseo's new face since 2016. And that was somewhere towards the end of New World which was in development since around at least October 2015 both BTW existing since the end of Guilty Dragon:


In example this is from March. Which at the time I personally thought the image was just a reference to Gaze of Domination from .hack//New World:

March 2016:

“世界”は終わりまた再び動き出す。

それは新しい誕生と約束の時。

“届かない声なんて、きっとない。”

…行くぜ!

#ギルドラ
#ギルティドラゴン Image
拡大
And this is from May. Which is after New World but an entire month before anything on Last Recode.

May 2016:

『.hack//G.U.』は今から11年前の5月18日に『Vol.1 再誕』が発売され、9月に『Vol.2 君想フ声』、翌年1月に完結作となる『Vol.3 歩くような速さで』が発売されました。

シリーズ完結から今年で10年!

Image

#.hack
#ドットハック
7:45 PM - 18 May 2017

Also the tweet below is even earlier that both and had happen during CC2's 20th Anniversary. Which is around early 2015.:

February 2016

Image

October 2015 (.hack//Guilty Dragon) & September 2016 (.hack//New World)

Image

Image



In short .hack//G.U. Last Recode has been in development since before the start of New World Vol. 1 and since the end of .hack//Guilty Dragon.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Yeah, Link mentions the possibility of her being able to repair herself, but then that begs to question if she's finally back then why hasn't she been able to get in contact with them like she had before. Its very sad when you think about it but awesome in the sense that her hero Tokio is about to set out to go rescue her one more time like when they were children...
Kuukai wrote:It's definitely a dangling plot thread. She may need to regrow like Aura. Maybe somebody will come across some spots on their screen... Because of Returner, her fate might not be entirely unconnected to Ovan's when you think about it. If Ovan, as Tri-Edge was linked to the AIDA, and his Wandering AI introduced them to the fledgling benevolent AIDA that eventually became AIKA, then it's wouldn't be the most surprising thing if whatever allowed Ovan to come back removes her hurdle as well. We'll just have to see how it unfolds in Last Recode. Of course I'm still assuming that's what the special event is, but seriously, that's what it is.
Yeah. I.like way things are far. Still I wonder how long they can keep the series going. It's amazing to see all the different plots CC2 is able to come up with

Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:That and I also have some strong doubts about her "accident" being just an accident.
IIRC she never died, she just ceased to be undercover. She's still around, she just faked her death.


I keep forgetting that... Although what really happened with during 2010 then. Didn't mama had to be keeping track of the situation somehow? Furthermore what about Morganna about how she came to be doesn't sit quite well with me either...
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:Those were initial thoughts as well. But... looking over it a little something about doesn't add up. Although the event for Cubia and Beast happened within The Akashic Records, they also had their own appearance as part of The Twilight Knight in The World R:X. However The Twilight Knights are the 100 recreated characters who exist as manifestation of Aura's memories of The World and like Kite they were summoned and turned to stone long before most of the distortions by Tokio and Saika in the Akashic Records even occurred.is it possible for Aura to have memories of an event that never occurred...?: How did this happen: were they created from Aura's re-imagination different events, could there have been something after the events of the original G.U., were they something Aura created in the moment, is there a multiverse occurring withing the game, was this explained within the game or did the distortions occur even earlier than I thought.
The Akashic Records were created to manipulate Aura, distortions within the records of The World are the same as distortions within the history of its Ultimate AI. Aura fought back with the Twilight Knights but it might not have been with a 100% canon timeline. Changes within the Akashic Records affect the Twilight Knights themselves as well.
Okay. I understand it a little better now.
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I'm still confused over how they came back in the first place. So I figure at the least as long as the records are there, they might be somewhere in an endless sea of data.
The given explanation is that Aura summoned them to oppose Schicksal, and Schicksal disbanding causes them to loose that purpose and cease to oppose them - like Cubia after Kite and BlackRose destroyed the bracelet. If Aura was still around maybe she could help them, but at that point she's missing.
I did realize some parts of that. But what I'm mainly referencing is the special after .hack//after2021. During the twilight knights somehow managed to make an appearance even though by that time Schicksal may have already disbanded.

Also on a side note, I'm not sure how important this is but however between 2030 and on the games seems to be actively reproducing generating massive wandering AI on a constant basis such as Phantoms, Legends, and the Monoceros (which from what they sound like, are similar to the a cross between the twilight knights and the azure knights). Though I guess The World has always had something happening
Keyaki wrote:I would need to rewatch Quantum but wasn't it connected to the Bastille?
Keyaki wrote:Last time we discussed this all I remember is that Hermit was using it to scan for potential donors to help cure his illness. Aside from that, no one sure where it came from or how Hermit got his hands on it or why he had it. But it possibly came from Mama.
There's something about mama's involvement with it here: http://blog.livedoor.jp/silver_1101/arc ... 85236.html. In addition to helping Hermit search for donors. The Black Branch was something included with his PC after first waking up in the game and is an extension of the PWF (「Psychopathology und das Forschungsinstitut der virtuellen Wirklichkeit) Technology used Ryuuji Sogabe's (Flugel) organization that was funded by Genius to create Schicksal PC's. Also aound the same time mama began their experiements with Hermit and their attempts on controlling lost ones. mama also finished developing most of The Digital Penetary and placed their prototype for Sophia Security System: Sophia (Black) in the game. Furthermore whenever the branch was used it would allow Hermit to manipulate the game as well as infect The World with a prototype of the same type Evolving Virus Bug that appear in 2024. (.hack//The Movie). And when against another player also act as a way to transfer another person's consciousness to the same Digital Prison/Bastille that Hermit was also attached to.
Kuukai wrote:It was ambiguous before .hack//T.E., but there they stated that as far as it's been revealed, Ovan is still in a coma.

I vaguely remember this too, .hack//ch explained the pro-Aura (Eleanor) and anti-Aura (Versus) factions of MaMa. Dominique is in the middle, she doesn't care how it's done she just wants humans to stop trashing the Earth and slowly killing ourselves (is she... is she even wrong?). Veronica is the top of the faction that wants to use Aura (makes sense), Eleanor joined forces with her. PFW (Fluegel's research institute originally started under Genius) is against using Aura (does it ever work?), researching other ways to digitalize humanity (the stick, Digital Penitentiary, Schicksal PCs, etc.)

With this level of background detail, it really makes you wonder what they're working on.


I feel like at this point they might as well try to intiate 3rd Impact. However Ryou' s hinted future nd everyone meeting aside I really think they're about to cross the streams
Keyaki wrote:Besides thinking of new ways of covering their asses everytime something goes wrong in The World and cooking up new versions? Lol I doubt we'll see anything unless Mama decides to manipulate them again.
**cough** Catalyst Control System... **cough**

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:04 am

Furthermore what about Morganna about how she came to be doesn't sit quite well with me either...
What do you mean? Mama manipulated Harold into creating Aura but how exactly Harold went about it most likely was up to his own perogative.
mama also finished developing most of The Digital Penetary and placed their prototype for Sophia Security System: Sophia (Black) in the game. Furthermore whenever the branch was used it would allow Hermit to manipulate the game as well as infect The World with a prototype of the same type Evolving Virus Bug that appear in 2024. (.hack//The Movie). And when against another player also act as a way to transfer another person's consciousness to the same Digital Prison/Bastille that Hermit was also attached to.
I'm not sure whether it was Mama who created the Sophia System or CC Corp. Given what we've seen with its track record for going dangerously haywire, I can't see Mama purposely creating something like that. Yes, Mama's clandestine ways of experimenting with Real/Soul Digitalization have involved subjecting unsuspecting victims(//Versus and //Quantum) but they've always been good at covering their tracks. Sophia's chaotic malfunctions seem incongruent to Mama's modus operandi.
I feel like at this point they might as well try to intiate 3rd Impact.
3rd Impact?
**cough** Catalyst Control System... **cough**
Catalyst Control System?

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by (Phantom) Thief » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:08 am

Furthermore what about Morganna about how she came to be doesn't sit quite well with me either...

What do you mean? Mama manipulated Harold into creating Aura but how exactly Harold went about it most likely was up to his own prerogative.
That's what I thought too. But something seems strange about a vagrant AI like Morganna developing out of nowhere. And while I do accept that she was born from the collective data of the game. I have small feeling that this might not be real case and that with some trouble with mama she might have been based off an actual person... However, for me that's more a guess than anything with a strong case behind it
Keyaki wrote:
mama also finished developing most of The Digital Penetary and placed their prototype for the Sophia Security System: Sophia (Black) in the game. Furthermore whenever the branch was used it would allow Hermit to manipulate the game as well as infect The World with a prototype of the same type Evolving Virus Bug that appear in 2024. (.hack//The Movie). And when against another player also act as a way to transfer another person's consciousness to the same Digital Prison/Bastille that Hermit was also attached to.
I'm not sure whether it was Mama who created the Sophia System or CC Corp. Given what we've seen with its track record for going dangerously haywire, I can't see Mama purposely creating something like that. Yes, Mama's clandestine ways of experimenting with Real/Soul Digitalization have involved subjecting unsuspecting victims(//Versus and //Quantum) but they've always been good at covering their tracks. Sophia's chaotic malfunctions seem incongruent to Mama's modus operandi.
EDIT: A diagram in-case anyone ever comes across this post ever again.

Image

Well to be more accurate ALGOS is the company that created the Sophia Security System from 2024 and ALTIMIT are the company behind its prototype Sophia (Black) in 2022. Like most of mama's experiments the results are both good and bad. However dangerous or not Sophia is another unique AI and something very important to their organization. Once Aura was lost after Immortal Dusk. ALTIMIT with CC Corp. created Sophia (Black) as another Aura using some of her remaining data from the Akasha Board/Akashic Records. Also while ALTIMIT is separate from CC Corp. and CC Corp was separate from ALGOS the founders of ALTIMIT are also the ones who founded MaMa and they are also the founders of Cyber Connect who later used the idea with ALGOS (who is in a partnership with Veronica Brain, the founder of Cyber Connect) and ALTIMIT to later develop the Sophia Security System (like Commander & Mass Production Series) which are actually series of mass produced Aura serving as a anti-viral security program for ALTIMIT OS, all organizations which are under mama's control. Sources are .hack//bullet ch.33 , .hack New Testament, 4 gamer summary of .hack//T.E. event. hack//quantum ja Wikipedia summary, silver's blog and so on.
Keyaki wrote:
I feel like at this point they might as well try to initiate 3rd Impact.

3rd Impact?
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I'm joking a little but it's an NG Evangelion Reference. At the end of the series, Shinji and Asuka fail to stop the Human Instrumentality Project and most of the world is forced to evolve, Rei turns everyone's individual bodies turned into LCD fluid, their soul/existence are forcefully merged into a single consciousness (Which the DP system in Quantum was kinda doing so... Just on a smaller scale... In the one of the alternative adaptions Mary mentions how while she was trapped it felt like it was hard for her keep mind separate from the lost ones) I think Rebuild of Evangelion does this a little differently at first though. At this point mama has done everything but manage to wip everyone from the face of the planet.
Keyaki wrote:
**cough** Catalyst Control Systoem... **cough**
Catalyst Control System?
After CC Corp was acquired by the research company MONOREAL Inc around 2035 The World is left with their research team ARIS who begin an experiment aimed at artificially mimicing the power of charasmatic individuals to create an system with the power to attract the attention of different people positive or negative and control the thinking of others. Although I'm not certain if mama are also MONOREAL. The organization does seem to understand some important details about real digitalization. I learned about the Catalyst Control System while reading about the term Reality Burst which is the unintended result of that experiment and it would be a good idea for someone to talk a little bit about that later.
Last edited by (Phantom) Thief on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Keyaki » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:31 am


After CC Corp was acquired by the research company MONOREAL Inc around 2035 The World is left with their research team ARIS who begin an experiment aimed at artificially mimicing the power of charasmatic individuals to create an system with the power to attract the attention of different people positive or negative and control the thinking of others. Although I'm not certain if mama are also MONOREAL. The organization does seem to understand some important details about real digitalization. I learned about the Catalyst Control System while reading about the term Reality Burst which is the unintended result of that experiment and it would be a good idea for someone to talk a little bit about that later.
Ok, wow. Where did you learn this?

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by Kuukai » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:23 pm

Keyaki wrote:
I would need to rewatch Quantum but wasn't it connected to the Bastille?
Last time we discussed this, all I remember is that Hermit was using it to scan for potential donors to help cure his illness. Aside from that, no one sure where it came from or how Hermit got his hands on it or why he had it. But it possibly came from Mama.
.hack//T.E. stated that it did, in fact it came from PFW (part of the "anti-Aura faction")
Keyaki wrote:
The Bastille was a proof of concept, and it was just one line of research the anti-Aura faction's PFW institute was pursuing. The Shicksal PCs were another - a "halfway" point where you're mentally further into The World than a normal player.
That sounds like the "anti- Aura" faction existed even before //Versus. Nevermind the apparent fact that Fluegel was working for the enemy this whole time.
His research was funded by MaMa and actually ended up helping both factions (e.g. the Shicksal PCs and various derived Soul Digitalization technology helped the anti's, and his team capturing Aura helped the pro's.), but after Link he quit. Remember, at the beginning of Link he's a villain. By the time of Link he's beginning to understand the foolishness of both forms of digitalization, and although he's done a lot of research up till that point he begins to consider it misguided and tries to return Tokio to the real world rather than studying him to perfect real digitalization.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I keep forgetting that... Although what really happened with during 2010 then. Didn't mama had to be keeping track of the situation somehow? Furthermore what about Morganna about how she came to be doesn't sit quite well with me either...
Well, it's a retcon. Morganna was Harald's solution to a problem nobody else could solve. But why MaMa didn't intervene? Well, retcon-wise they probably did, but there were no plot hooks in there at the time because that wasn't the writers' plan. The new novel seems to contain more of that. I think it's a good retcon, I like that there's an overarching existential plot, but the limitation of writing while you go with no preconceived notion of where you're going is that some things won't feel quite right. See: every JJ Abrams script ever. In general .hack does know where it's going, but they had to tweak things a couple of times: once for G.U. and then more severely for Link.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I did realize some parts of that. But what I'm mainly referencing is the special after .hack//after2021. During the twilight knights somehow managed to make an appearance even though by that time Schicksal may have already disbanded.
In Link, Fluegel says something along the lines of, "when our contract expires," so one year isn't that hard to explain.
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I feel like at this point they might as well try to intiate 3rd Impact. However Ryou' s hinted future nd everyone meeting aside I really think they're about to cross the streams
That's an impressive collection of references.
EDIT:
Keyaki wrote:I'm not sure whether it was Mama who created the Sophia System or CC Corp. Given what we've seen with its track record for going dangerously haywire, I can't see Mama purposely creating something like that. Yes, Mama's clandestine ways of experimenting with Real/Soul Digitalization have involved subjecting unsuspecting victims(//Versus and //Quantum) but they've always been good at covering their tracks. Sophia's chaotic malfunctions seem incongruent to Mama's modus operandi.
It's either implied or outright stated that MaMa created both Sophia and the virus that spurred its adoption. In .hack//The Movie, they lose control of the virus.

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Re: .hack franchise plot threads that are still unresolved?

Post by (Phantom) Thief » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:31 pm

Keyaki wrote:

After CC Corp was acquired by the research company MONOREAL Inc around 2035 The World is left with their research team ARIS who begin an experiment aimed at artificially mimicing the power of charasmatic individuals to create an system with the power to attract the attention of different people positive or negative and control the thinking of others. Although I'm not certain if mama are also MONOREAL. The organization does seem to understand some important details about real digitalization. I learned about the Catalyst Control System while reading about the term Reality Burst which is the unintended result of that experiment and it would be a good idea for someone to talk a little bit about that later.
Ok, wow. Where did you learn this?
Image

Image

http://www.hack.channel.or.jp/NW/10_2.html

New World CCKataroo!!

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New World CCS#3

Image

http://www.hack.channel.or.jp/NW/10_4.html

There's a basic summary for it on the Japanese Wikipedia. But sections over the Catalyst Control System originate are from .hack//New World chapters 10-2 and 10-4 after you meet up with Ninlil who was one of the engineers working on the project, whose also the current operator of Netslum. As stated while the Catalyst Control System was invented to control people. Reality Burst the unintended result of that experiment allows for the opposite to occur and creates a reverse flow of things which one to somehow manipulate the game. Ourselves with (G.O.D.) & The King's Eyes, Crying Princess & The Person with Her, And the Second to Last Boss of the game are all individuals called Catalyst Systems capable of managing information, The World or Reality in an abnormal way. On side note there's some information about Monoreal on one of the games loading screen above... Also I was a little off. MONOREAL actually aqquires CC Corp. in 2032.

Edit:
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I did realize some parts of that. But what I'm mainly referencing is the special after .hack//after2021. During the twilight knights somehow managed to make an appearance even though by that time Schicksal may have already disbanded.
In Link, Fluegel says something along the lines of, "when our contract expires," so one year isn't that hard to explain.
Thanks. I never noticed that actually. Its good to see things still actually makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Sadly since I haven't played the english patch of the game I've been missing out on small details like that every now and then.
Kuukai wrote:
(Phantom) Thief wrote:I feel like at this point they might as well try to intiate 3rd Impact. However Ryou' s hinted future and everyone meeting aside I really think they're about to cross the streams
That's an impressive collection of references.
:D

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