Philosophy debate of Religion, and Science

[AuraTwilight]

But is he wrong in assuming that? I mean aren't many deaths caused by difference of religeons? We call people terrorists cause they bomb us in the name of their religion...Where is the line drawn? I think that people are too hardcore sometimes on their beliefs to a point to where they think it's their right to force it onto other people. If God wanted everyone to believe, then he woud tell us face to face, until then I am going to have to go with science...

It's not that he's wrong, it's that he was biased from the outset when he made his claims. Anyway, I would wager that while Religion is a great evil, it's just an offshoot of an even bigger evil in human nature: Human Selfishness, Human Ignorance, The Need to Be Special, and The Need To Be Right. Those four are the cornerstones of all human problems, but people tend to only acknowledge and try to fix the first two, even though they're mostly byproducts of the other two.

[Adept_Aiden]

I suppose, but if religion is right, then would it not be because of God that we are like that? He is supposed to be the pinacle of our attention, the only thing that we care about...Being created in his image would undoubtedly make us want that...

[AuraTwilight]

So you're saying that trying to gain God's love and attention is what causes human ignorance, greed, and suffering? Chalk that up to the long list of reasons why not to worship the asshole.

[Advent_Winter]

Let me ask this. Can God get bored?

Since he knew what was going to happen if he created us, why go through the trouble?

[nobodyknows]

I suppose, but if religion is right, then would it not be because of God that we are like that? He is supposed to be the pinacle of our attention, the only thing that we care about...Being created in his image would undoubtedly make us want that...

fail.

It's FAR more likely that Human beings created God in the image of themselves - If you reverse the Bible's logic, it still makes sense - and then decided to make him what they saw as 'perfect' in every way possible. Because of this coagulation of ideas on perfection - from 2000 years ago - God - in the psalms - is not tolerant of minorities and 'heathens'.. JUST LIKE THE CHRISTIANS AT THE TIME WEREN'T. Also, if God was perfect in every way, surely that must mean that his views would be unchanging - seeing as it's the perfect mindset - And seeing as he made man in his image, that must also mean that our views would be unchanging, ergo we'd still have the views that we had during 1AD - or thereabouts - but we don't. Our views on political, religious and even general aspects have all changed drastically from that time in history. Surely if Christianity were founded today, then God would be FAR more tolerant of the 'heathens' than he would have been 2000 years ago. Point proven.




My argument might be a bit stale... could someone evaluate and correct the parts that make no sense?


EDIT: Also, the reason why Humans created God in the first place, was because they needed a way to get the people to believe in something false - which was worth giving vast sums of money to as a religious cause - and give money to the church for the sake of the 'upkeep' involved in worship that false being. In that sense, how does Christianity differ from any of the religions involving the worship of Idols? The Church is effectively leeching money from the people. Also, it proves that the Bible is effectively contradicting itself when it mentions that one should 'purge the heathens'. Furthermore, because even kings could be brought into the church's grasp during those times, it would effectively enable the group of people who founded said religion to act all mighty and holy, while merely using the entire scheme as a cover up to slowly take over the land, and eventually bring whole continents under their rule. It was the Church that said the crusades were necessary, right? Why then? So that they could expand the amount of land they own. IMO, the Church and Christianity is just one great big hoax covering up a dark history of treachery, betrayl, and deceipt... it could also have something to do with the illuminati....

[Adept_Aiden]

Nobodyknows has the right idea. It's been so long know one can really say what was true and what wasn't. I mean if everything in the bible was true then dragons would be real. There was a story about a man that was traveling around trying to disprove false gods and false miracles and at one point he came across a village that was paying tribute and I quote "to a dragon-like self proclaimed god" Now I'm not against dragons being real, but I am against peope only taking parts that they like from history and trying to drop everything else. Throughout my life I've seen more than I wish for anyone to, except of course for the good things. And from all these experiences I have found 3 key things.

1: Humans are inheritantly selfish creatures.

2: The bigger the lie told, the easier it is for people to believe.

3: I get really bored sometimes and think about things like this quite often...>.>

[AuraTwilight]

Let me ask this. Can God get bored?

Since he knew what was going to happen if he created us, why go through the trouble?

Because he needs the ego stroking. If God were a human, he'd be diagnosed with so many mental disorders it's not even funny.

[Kuukai]

Let me ask this. Can God get bored?

Since he knew what was going to happen if he created us, why go through the trouble?

It's important to note that the religious/philosophical view is that God's action is beyond mortal comprehension. It asserts that humans are imperfect creatures, with limited logic (this I tend to agree with anyway because it's awesome, especially when viewed through the lens of evolutionary biology--it's also similar yet somewhat more worrisome than Buddhism, which professes that we're all creatures of potentially perfect reason plagued by delusions we may eventually dismiss), so what seems like a paradox to you makes perfect sense to God. Human reason can only take you so far, beyond that you need divine revelation. That's why you run into random ancient philosophers in Dante's Inferno (the book and the game). They wound up in Limbo with a bunch of unbaptised babies since even the best human logic can't cure original sin.

Or at least that's how that goes. Religion's been around for millennia, and people smarter than us have believed in it. The internal consistency of most won't go down so easily. There are other problems though, just read Dawkins.

[zaseo]

That occult has something to do with the conspiracy theories. A lot stuff that has happen will make you think WTF. Some events in history must be covered up somehow. Some people say they're Christians, or Jews, but shows signs of being in various occults that are Satanic like.

If us humans were prefect things shall end up monotonous. Everyone is equal, and not equal at the same time. My strengths is somebodies flaws, and vice versa. Everyone doesn't have equality of opportunity, and equality of outcome. What do you think the world would be like if everyone had equal opportunity, and outcome?

[zaseo]

Been sometime since anyone has post. What do you think about homos, and bisexuals?

I feel it wrong. It goes against science, and religion. In science things have always been male and female, + and - etc. If the human race was to become full of homos then the human race would fail. I doubt that would ever happen. This world needs no more people, but the cycle of nature must continue. Opposites should attract in nature.

From a religion point of view its sin. It also a shows more signs to the end of the world coming.

[Kuukai]

How the hell can something "go against science"? If it happens, it happens. Scientific understanding has to change to explain phenomena, not the other way around. And it's almost as hard to "go against religion" given how many there are. It goes against fundamentalist Abrahamic religions, but in some others there's nothing inherently wrong with it...

[zaseo]

Well would saying go against nature work better? I wonder if any new laws supporting it will be pass soon. From my point of view although homosexuality has been existence for awhile, but it is becoming more common today.

If this world ends soon I wouldn't be surprised. It won't end in the 12-21-2012 Maya thing. The government is a big conspiracy these days. Hysteria is controlling people into doing things that they normally wouldn't do. For example diseases Why the hell do we need so many vaccines these days? Back then the infant mortality rate was high, but not now. A person should get vaccinated for common killers, but it too much theses days. Too much vaccines can f*ck up your immune system.

Another example would be wars. Right now there is senseless wars going on in this world right now. Many of the war these days are setups. The USA is the strongest country with the best military. Why not just nuke the hell out of Iraq, and take control of that country? BTW sooner, or later I think we're going to have more terrorist attacks.

I could go on, and on, and bored you to death possibly, but if you put science, and religion together, and relate it to the world you can tell this world will have some hell soon.

[Kuukai]

I wouldn't say it goes against nature either, because it's present in nature. Evolution is a simple idea that took millennia to come up with, so it's best approached with respect for the fact that what's simple and true isn't always obvious. I was just reading an article about horizontal evolution the other day that blew my mind. Anyway, there's apparently a New Scientist article about this:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... ality.html

Too much vaccines can f*ck up your immune system.

[citation needed]

Why not just nuke the hell out of Iraq, and take control of that country?

Because... you know, we're not really that cool about killing people? FYI, the world as it is today is more peaceful than it ever was:
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_ ... lence.html
Since we're not dying from each other anymore, maybe that's why we care so much about vaccines...

BTW sooner, or later I think we're going to have more terrorist attacks.

Well, duh. But the one and only reason we don't see that many terrorist attacks is the basic goodness of people, something the fearmongers don't like talking about. It is not that hard to get a bunch of explosive things together in your car and destroy a building. Any idiot could do it. But it's so rare in occurrence the number of people actually willing to do it must be unbelievably minuscule.

[zaseo]

H1N1 is a scam. From what I hear, and research its a scam. The vaccine can in up f*cking up a person.

The war in Iraq is so senseless. This could branch off to WW3. It a possibility. It wouldn't surprise me if it was in cities on the east, or western coast.

We know the government is corrupt, but many people don't know to what extend. The best way to control people would be the media. People can be control consciously , and subconsciously easily. I shall keep my fate in God's hands.

I wonder why was the original sabbath day for Christians changed?

[Kuukai]

H1N1 is a scam. From what I hear, and research its a scam. The vaccine can in up f*cking up a person.

Oh, it was without a doubt overblown to sell vaccines. But at the same time it was more serious a danger than just a normal flu. The vaccine wasn't all that harmful compared to the actual disease.

The war in Iraq is so senseless. This could branch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday#Sun ... Sabbathoff to WW3. It a possibility. It wouldn't surprise me if it was in cities on the east, or western coast.

In what possible way could the insurgency in Iraq spur a world war? What major world powers back the other side. Even minor powers don't really for the most part...

I wonder why was the original sabbath day for Christians changed?

Actually it has its origins in the bible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday#Sunday_and_Sabbath

[AuraTwilight]

Been sometime since anyone has post. What do you think about homos, and bisexuals?

Homosexuality has been around as long as heterosexuality. It's a part of nature and condemning it is as foolish and punishing people for being black.

I feel it wrong. It goes against science, and religion. In science things have always been male and female, + and - etc. If the human race was to become full of homos then the human race would fail. I doubt that would ever happen. This world needs no more people, but the cycle of nature must continue. Opposites should attract in nature.

You know, there's multiple animal species that practice homosexuality, and many, many, many organisms that reproduce asexually, have more or less than two genders, or can even reproduce through same-sex interactions.

Besides, no one's claiming that the human race has to become 100% homosexual, that's just retarded. If anything, Homosexuality's presence will be a benefit because we're reproducing faster than we can develop to support everyone's existence. There's always going to be gays AND straights, though.

Oh, and opposites don't always attract; especially not at a subatomic level.

From a religion point of view its sin. It also a shows more signs to the end of the world coming.

Which religion? I can give you a slew of religions that don't have a problem of homosexuality, including some Christian sects.

Homosexuality has been around since before the Jews, and older societys, such as feudal Japan and Greece, even had something akin to homosexual marriage. To say that homosexuality is some new sign of the end of the world is idiocy and a demonstration of being ignorant of world history and human civilization.

Well would saying go against nature work better? I wonder if any new laws supporting it will be pass soon. From my point of view although homosexuality has been existence for awhile, but it is becoming more common today.

There's no such thing as going against nature, really, but even if there was, we've catalogued over 680 animal species that have homosexual practices in the wild.

If this world ends soon I wouldn't be surprised. It won't end in the 12-21-2012 Maya thing. The government is a big conspiracy these days. Hysteria is controlling people into doing things that they normally wouldn't do. For example diseases Why the hell do we need so many vaccines these days? Back then the infant mortality rate was high, but not now. A person should get vaccinated for common killers, but it too much theses days. Too much vaccines can f*ck up your immune system.

Um...the infant mortality rate went down BECAUSE OF the vaccines. Vaccines are a preventive measure that stop you from getting sick in the first place. If people aren't getting sick and it looks like nothing's happening, it means the vaccines are working.

Do you know how severely unrealistic a government conspiracy would be? No one can agree on anything whatsoever. Hysteria is just human idiocy, which has always been around; most of the hysteria is from extremely religious people, so should we stamp out religion? Is that what you're advocating?

Another example would be wars. Right now there is senseless wars going on in this world right now. Many of the war these days are setups. The USA is the strongest country with the best military. Why not just nuke the hell out of Iraq, and take control of that country? BTW sooner, or later I think we're going to have more terrorist attacks.

Because the United Nations has a pact forbidding the usage of nuclear weaponry, and China has declared that if anyone uses Nukes, they will send their nukes in EVERY DIRECTION. Basically, if we nuke Iraq, every country in the entire world would nuke us. Do you not understand that terrorists attack America because they think we're bloodthirsty monsters? They're taught to believe that destroying America is a just, moral action, and if we keep attacking them and bombing them and ****, we're proving them right.

I could go on, and on, and bored you to death possibly, but if you put science, and religion together, and relate it to the world you can tell this world will have some hell soon.

People have been saying that since before the birth of Jesus. The world, if anything, is better than it was. It's just that with enhanced communication technologies it's only now that we can understand how bad the world has been all this time. It's nothing new.

H1N1 is a scam. From what I hear, and research its a scam. The vaccine can in up f*cking up a person.

No it's not. It's been blown out of proportion, yes, but the disease does exist, people have died from it, and the vaccine does help.

The war in Iraq is so senseless. This could branch off to WW3. It a possibility. It wouldn't surprise me if it was in cities on the east, or western coast.

We know the government is corrupt, but many people don't know to what extend. The best way to control people would be the media. People can be control consciously , and subconsciously easily. I shall keep my fate in God's hands.

Why? The Middle East doesn't have the manpower to keep up a world war; they're barely able to retaliate as it is; and no one's going to take their side.

[Kuukai]

Hear the angels falling from the sky? It's because AT and I agree on something.

[zaseo]

Albert Pike predicted 3 WWs. A world war starting from the Middle East is likely to happen later.

Since the government is the biggest conspiracy ever they can control anything. Right now many Americans are being mind control with subliminal messages in the sub conscious area of the brain. This is the best, and easiest way to gain control over most people. Many things in the world have their normal meanings, and symbolic meanings.

Micheal Jackson was against the government, and had to be killed for it. More people knew about him, than any other person in the world. A person like that has influence to changed the world. I never been a rap fan, but Tupac was killed for the same reasons. If you listen to his song "They Don't Give A F About Us" you would hear things that make you wonder whats he talking about.

As far as the world ending on 12-21-2012 I'm sure we all agree that it is total BS. No human can predict when the world will end. It a day that Satan is fooling people with. Besides the Abrahamic religions most if not all religions have on thing in common. They are polytheistic, and they worship the Sun God. The Egyptians were the first to have a polytheistic religion that worship a Sun God. The other other religions are likely base from it. The Egyptians religion is base from Babylon. Many polytheistic are Pagan base.

As far as the Sabbath day it should be for Christians on Saturday. Sabbath means Saturday. Before the Roman empire got divide the Sabbath day was changed to Sunday. Pagans want Sun worship.

Right now there are too many people in this world for one government controlling everything. The best way to do this is to trick people, and depopulate the world. Swine Flu is a man made disease. It been proven that its nothing to truly be worried about. It a another stand of the flu. The vaccines on the other hand is use for money, and to f*ck people later in life. We need vaccines, but not too many. Sometimes it best to let your immune system develop on it on. If it a another stand of the same virus it would likely take care of it soon.

Have you ever read the Willie Lynch thing on how to make a slave? That method is use to control people in the world.

[Kaedan]

TC, you said you don't believe in evolution because all the monkeys would have evolved by now?

Did you know that birds evolved from reptiles? We still have reptiles around, right? Evolution doesn't mean than an entire species becomes another species. And it's not like monkeys suddenly become human. It means that over many, many generations, some members of a species start to change, not all.

[AuraTwilight]

Hear the angels falling from the sky? It's because AT and I agree on something.

Oh come now, we agree on a lot of things. Just not on .hack//Link and Dinosaurs.

Albert Pike predicted 3 WWs. A world war starting from the Middle East is likely to happen later.

Who cares what Albert Pike predicted? Is he psychic?

Since the government is the biggest conspiracy ever they can control anything. Right now many Americans are being mind control with subliminal messages in the sub conscious area of the brain. This is the best, and easiest way to gain control over most people. Many things in the world have their normal meanings, and symbolic meanings.

You're not seriously insane enough to actually believe in this garbage, are you? Anyone with even a mild understanding of psychology knows this is as crazy as accusing the government of trying to control us by asking please.

Micheal Jackson was against the government, and had to be killed for it. More people knew about him, than any other person in the world. A person like that has influence to changed the world. I never been a rap fan, but Tupac was killed for the same reasons. If you listen to his song "They Don't Give A F About Us" you would hear things that make you wonder whats he talking about.

Michael Jackson was old as hell and died of a heart attack after he kept screwing with his own body; the government had nothing to do with it, and they wouldn't even bother; seriously, who even listens to Michael Jackson and cares about what he has to say? He was a joke. Tupac was killed in a gang-related shooting.

As far as the world ending on 12-21-2012 I'm sure we all agree that it is total BS. No human can predict when the world will end. It a day that Satan is fooling people with. Besides the Abrahamic religions most if not all religions have on thing in common. They are polytheistic, and they worship the Sun God. The Egyptians were the first to have a polytheistic religion that worship a Sun God. The other other religions are likely base from it. The Egyptians religion is base from Babylon. Many polytheistic are Pagan base.

You don't know anything about non-Abrahamic religions at all, so you should probably keep your mouth shut about it so you don't embarrass yourself.

Right now there are too many people in this world for one government controlling everything. The best way to do this is to trick people, and depopulate the world. Swine Flu is a man made disease. It been proven that its nothing to truly be worried about. It a another stand of the flu. The vaccines on the other hand is use for money, and to f*ck people later in life. We need vaccines, but not too many. Sometimes it best to let your immune system develop on it on. If it a another stand of the same virus it would likely take care of it soon.

It's nothing to worry about if you take care of yourself, but people with the disease kept overworking themselves and neglecting their rest, so they kept dying from it. You're also not a medical doctor, so really, stop making an idiot out of yourself. What kind of world domination conspiracy would want to kill off the people they want to control? That's just stupid. If they wanted to depopulate the planet anyway, they would atleast target the "expendable people", like killing off all the south africans with AIDS or something.

Have you ever read the Willie Lynch thing on how to make a slave? That method is use to control people in the world.

Willie Lynch was an opium addict and didn't know what he was talking about.

In short, you need to educate yourself and stop listening to nutjobs. You're clearly some sort of overly-sheltered child, as you've demonstrated before.