Anthroposophy?

Discuss the anime series that started it all, .hack//SIGN and //LIMINALITY

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Annwyn
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Anthroposophy?

Post by Annwyn »

I bet I butchered the spelling.

This question bugs me every time I watch Liminality, and I'm finally asking it. What the heck is this anthroposophy, and how exactly does it tie into The World?

They mention that it's a "science" that's often unrecognized as a science, and that Emma Wielant was studying it, but is it an actual influence for the MMORPG the way the Epitaph of Twilight was?
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Post by Suyo »

Anthroposophy
is a philosophy based on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner (1861–1925) which maintains that, by virtue of a prescribed method of self-discipline, cognitional experience of the spiritual world can be achieved

Sounds like it could tie in to the series pretty well.

[Thank you dictionary.com!]
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Annwyn
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Post by Annwyn »

Darn this series, it's constantly trying to confuse me with its strange words!

Thank you, that clears up a large portion of what I didn't understand. ^^ *Never knew a dictionary.com existed :shock: *
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Post by Suyo »

The internet is made of endless wonders ;]

You're welcome~
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AuraTwilight
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Post by AuraTwilight »

For further readings:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy

I agree with practically everything Anthroposophy suggests (Steiner refuses to accept his work as "teachings" since he admits he can be, and is probably wrong) except for the stuff about Christ he put in there. That's just nutty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminality

Liminality, the Anthroposophy term most .hackers should be familiar with.

"The liminal state is characterized by ambiguity, openness, and indeterminacy. One's sense of identity dissolves to some extent, bringing about disorientation. Liminality is a period of transition, during which your normal limits to thought, self-understanding, and behavior are relaxed, opening the way to something new."

This very much describes, if not perfectly, the experiences of Mai Minase and her friends, along with pretty much every .hack character we know.

Twilight is also a time of Liminality, as it's neither day nor night.
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Annwyn
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Post by Annwyn »

Wow, it's amazing how perfectly anthroposophy and liminality describe the story of .hack... It makes me realize how deep the story really is. Too bad it took me so many times of watching Liminality to see it though.

So was the experience of liminality, which the players go through, an intention of Harald's all along? Or does the game only bring this about by coincidence, because of how realistic and immersive it is? That's something else that I don't think I understand 100%--whether The World was meant to bring about this phenomenon because the belief in anthroposophy was shared by Harald, or if it's only an interesting coincidence that because Emma studied it.
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Post by DragonLord »

I think Harald wanted to believe, simply for the reason that he wanted to be able to make Aura a real being, not just an AI that ran on a script and coding. I also think he made Morganna a little too well though, because Morganna evolving and taking matters into its own hands was never part of Harald's plans. He wanted Morganna to be advanced and posses something of a spirit so she could be used like a stepping stone for Aura, but it could be possible he may not have understood completely what making Morganna that way would lead to (ie Morganna's desire for self-preservation).

Sorry if not all of that makes sense, I only understand the basics of Anthroposophy and Liminality.
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Post by Annwyn »

Nah I get what you say. So in that case, Harald probably had anthroposophy in mind to begin with, for the sake of making Aura, but at the same time, the system he was going off of ran its own course with Morganna. So it's like it was planned, but it also acted on its own even without his push.

Thanks for the help. :D
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Post by DragonLord »

No problem :) I spend my lonely hours re-watching Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell, Ergo Proxy, etc, so I'm not half-bad with this kinda stuff. Still wish there was money in becomming a Philosophy major :evil:
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Post by AuraTwilight »

So was the experience of liminality, which the players go through, an intention of Harald's all along? Or does the game only bring this about by coincidence, because of how realistic and immersive it is? That's something else that I don't think I understand 100%--whether The World was meant to bring about this phenomenon because the belief in anthroposophy was shared by Harald, or if it's only an interesting coincidence that because Emma studied it.
He wanted to place the characters through Liminality, but not through the means in which it happened since he didn't want to indanger anyone. He wanted Aura to learn Liminality to be complete and whatnot. The time inbetween her awakening and her ascension to Godhood is a liminal stage of existence. Orca's state where he's neither in The World or the real world is liminal. Etcetera Etcetera. Harald probably didn't share the belief in Anthroposophy, but he and Emma went to a seminar about it together, so he probably felt that it was one of the few things tying them together.

Another thing is that Aura is a permanently liminal being, as she is neither human nor machine.
I think Harald wanted to believe, simply for the reason that he wanted to be able to make Aura a real being, not just an AI that ran on a script and coding. I also think he made Morganna a little too well though, because Morganna evolving and taking matters into its own hands was never part of Harald's plans. He wanted Morganna to be advanced and posses something of a spirit so she could be used like a stepping stone for Aura, but it could be possible he may not have understood completely what making Morganna that way would lead to (ie Morganna's desire for self-preservation).

Sorry if not all of that makes sense, I only understand the basics of Anthroposophy and Liminality.
No, I understand it. Though you make some good points. The problem is that Harald never intended for Morganna to exist at all. She was born entirely of a fluke. She was just supposed to be a program to funnel data into Aura, no more of an AI than Microsoft Word, but the data passing through Morgana made her an AI on accident, causing all the crap in .hack to happen. With the exception of AI Harald and  The Azure Knights, no AI has successfully been created by human hands alone. It's almost always a autonomous process.
Nah I get what you say. So in that case, Harald probably had anthroposophy in mind to begin with, for the sake of making Aura, but at the same time, the system he was going off of ran its own course with Morganna. So it's like it was planned, but it also acted on its own even without his push.
That's kind've the irony of it, because if everything DID go according to plan like Harald wanted, Aura probably would've never been born. It was only through everything going haywire and nutty that Harald's dream could've come true.
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Post by DragonLord »

AuraTwilight wrote:That's kind've the irony of it, because if everything DID go according to plan like Harald wanted, Aura probably would've never been born. It was only through everything going haywire and nutty that Harald's dream could've come true.
I guess it's fitting that a guy who was completely screwed up by the end had his dreams come true in a messed up way :shock: An AI child with a dead woman? Talk about denial and not moving on :roll:
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Yea, he was kind've nutty, but when you consider all the good that came from his work, you can hardly blame him.
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