Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

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Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Thonida » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:28 pm

I recently finished watching all 26 episodes of .hack//SIGN + Unison and Gift (I already know I should play or know about the games for those; I have been reading a lot on the wiki site and others).

There is one thing I can not understand, maybe I am missing the explanation because -as implied before- I have not played the games: in the Unison episode we see Sora, but... wasn´t Ryou, the player behind this character, left in a comatose state by Morganna?

Well, I have just read something about the games, and apparently at the end everything in The World is restored again and the comatose players are awaken. But again, I read that apparently Ryou does not remember neither even having played the game, so... why would he return as Sora in that Unison episode? I understand it is cannon, so I am missing something. I don´t think that is just a vagrant AI...


ps: don´t worry about spoilers, I really wan´t to know everything and anything about this whole franchise :)
I would also appreciate any link where I can READ everything that happens in the first 4 games, so far the wiki source is ok

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby (Phantom) Thief » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:31 am

Spoilers Reader Beware

At the end of .hack//Sign, Sora's character data is fused with Skeith. During .hack//Zero Sora becomes the first Epitaph PC, and Carl becomes his first coma victim. Kazu becomes a coma victim during .hack//Another Birth. Sieg is sent into a coma during .hack//Liminallity, and Ocra is sent into a coma during .hack//Infection. Once Skeith is defeated Sora is imprisoned in the Wand and released by Kite near the end .hack//Outbreak.

After .hack//Quarantine Ryou is released from the game but looses his memory while his remaining character data is collected into a Wandering AI. By .hack//Unision Sora is finally accepted into group, vanishes near the end of 2010 and through the duration of 2015 his actions from .hack//ZERO lay the foundation for the collection of the Avatars during The End of The World as well as the R.A. Plan to control Aura and Immortal Dusk. Near the end of .hack//G.U. Haseo is reunited with Sora whom had also became Skeith from that time on.

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Afterward by 2020 their character data is revived through the Akashic Records then split into several forms in .hack//Link. By 2025 Haseo returns to the game with Skeith in .hack//Versus and By 2030 a mysterious character known as the Jet Black Terror of Death makes an appearance in Guilty Dragon

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Kuukai » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:58 am

To reiterate, the Sora in Unison is a wandering AI, this is explained in .hack//Link and its accompanying materials, and implied heavily by .hack//Quarantine and .hack//analysis. By this point Ryou has lost his memories of playing The World.

In the Japanese version of the games, at least, the alternate-color version of Haseo within Haseo's mind that appears to represent Skeith/his darker side right before he gains Xth form, speaks the same playful way Sora did.

When Aura summons forth the Twilight Knights from The World's time data in .hack//Link, players with multiple characters are reconstituted as separate "Twilight Knight" AIs.

In the movie, Haseo's face is the emblem of Canard, an immense guild in 2024, but it's unknown if he's still playing or just a legendary founder figure. The Haseo in 2025 isn't actually Haseo, it's just a reproduction for the fighting game VS:The World (same with every playable character except 9--although the REAL Sakuya appears on the BBS and is apparently playing FORCE:ERA in addition to apparently testing VS)
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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Thonida » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:01 pm

wow, thanks a lot to you both! I had to read the answers more than once and, again, check all the references

(Phantom) Thief wrote:After .hack//Quarantine Ryou is released from the game but looses his memory while his remaining character data is collected into a Wandering AI. By .hack//Unision Sora is finally accepted into group

Kuukai wrote:the Sora in Unison is a wandering AI, this is explained in .hack//Link and its accompanying materials, and implied heavily by .hack//Quarantine and .hack//analysis. By this point Ryou has lost his memories of playing The World.

so, basically, Ryou is NOT behind the Sora character in Unison, am I getting this right? this means that the Sora that cries and dances there is a wandering AI?

this made me pop up another question, which I think is the essence of my doubt: being in a coma does not mean being "disconnected" from the virtual reality helmet (or however it is called -> you may correct me here), right? I immediately associated the fact of falling into a coma with being separated from whatever physical device that connects you to The World, now I see that is not correct. Such as Tsukasa when in almost the middle of //SIGN s/he seems to almost die but that does not mean s/he is not "in conscience" in The World. Again, if I am mistaken in any of these impressions, please, correct me; I am very interested in this.

(Phantom) Thief wrote:Near the end of .hack//G.U. Haseo is reunited with Sora whom had also became Skeith from that time on.

didn´t get this completely, it makes me embarassed wanting to ask you to break it down a little bit
maybe if I first watch //Roots will I understand some more? or this you are telling me is only shown/explained in that game? (which I understand happens after //Roots)

and lastly (sorry), which novel is that image from?

again, I REALLY appreciate the replies

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby (Phantom) Thief » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:52 pm

Spoilers Reader Beware

Thonida wrote:so, basically, Ryou is NOT behind the Sora character in Unison, am I getting this right? this means that the Sora that cries and dances there is a wandering AI?


Yes the information was also confirmed in Old Testament. By Unision Sora has become a wandering AI. Like the Tsukasa and Subaru AI Helba suggests that three of them were created from by the player’s memory and stored in their trashed character data. The Tsukasa and Subaru AI vaguely remember having friends but regain their memories through e-mail. Sora seems more together than the other two however his text speech is corrupt.

Thonida wrote:this made me pop up another question, which I think is the essence of my doubt: being in a coma does not mean being "disconnected" from the virtual reality helmet (or however it is called -> you may correct me here), right? I immediately associated the fact of falling into a coma with being separated from whatever physical device that connects you to The World, now I see that is not correct. Such as Tsukasa when in almost the middle of //SIGN s/he seems to almost die but that does not mean s/he is not "in conscience" in The World. Again, if I am mistaken in any of these impressions, please, correct me; I am very interested in this.


During 2006 Harald discovered a special wavelength that allow that a player, in this case Lara to physically enter the game. As Amagi researched Harald during 2015 he captured the understandings by this property and labeled it Real Digitization. As time moved the process that brings people into The World and created each of the Lost Ones began to occur in larger lighter frequencies. Shamrock called it Soul Digitalize. By 2020 Real Digitalize (リアルデジタライズ) is the technology that allows a human to physically enter a virtual space in which a mobile device such as a P-COM emits a specific wavelength of light and transforms solid matter into particles of light, receive it as data and act as the Liminatlity of the game. The second and third characters to ever experience Real Digitization aside from Lara Hoerwick are the scientist Jyoutaro Amagi and the Double-Ware Tokio Kuryuu

Thonida wrote:didn´t get this completely, it makes me embarrassed wanting to ask you to break it down a little bit
maybe if I first watch //Roots will I understand some more? or this you are telling me is only shown/explained in that game? (which I understand happens after //Roots)


Because of the events from Zero, Sora was linked with Skeith. By 2017 although Sora is gone, the memory for his character personality resides in the Avatar for Skeith. During the novel the other half Haseo's personality and his final form within Skeith is Sora. During the game the other half Haseo's mind and the Xth form, within Skeith is a doppelganger of Haseo whom mimics Sora's personality. Roots will help understand who Haseo is but won't explain his affiliation with Sora. .hack//G.U. will hint at the
connection but novel will explain it better.

Thonida wrote:and lastly (sorry), which novel is that image from?


.hack//G.U. Vol. 4 - 8 Dimensional Thoughts

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Kuukai » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:02 pm

Your question about being "disconnected" is a good question. Soul Digitalization actually requires more of a suspension of disbelief than Real Digitalization, which makes it ironic that as soon as Real Digitalization was introduced fans started jumping in and attacking it as less plausible than the good old days of minds leaving brains. Real Digitalization converts an object to light and then captures the data like a radar, taking it into the virtual world. It's scifi, but it has an explanation. Soul Digitalization... somehow moves your "soul" into the virtual world. The only explanations for this are metaphysical and not at all based on even fake physics. I think Liminality explains it in the most satisfying (although still entirely metaphysical way). You move from "here" to "there," and that becomes your reality. No machine is required at that point. Take the FMD away and the victim stays unconscious but reacts to events in The World "magically" as seen in Liminality. If they're revived in The World, if their mind lets them return, then their body wakes up in real life. Same thing happened with Tsukasa and Sora.

Does that answer all of your questions? We love answering them. .hack//Link actually more properly highlights the connection between Sora, Skeith, and Haseo, and it gives you a great "what if" story about Haseo where so much of his trust is shattered that he spawns another Wandering AI, among other feats such as defeating Ovan in only a fraction of the time it was supposed to take, and then he takes responsibility for the AI's well-being at the end, much like he takes responsibility for the Sora/Skeith part of himself in the games.
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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby .hack-fan7 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:06 pm

it sounds pretty interesting how the kid over time developed all these different contexts and such
but i just cant forgive him killing my fave character so many damn times. :?
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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Thonida » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:01 pm

once again, thanks a bunch for those complete answers!

I will still have some questions eventually, but so far that is more than enough

now I am definitely hooked up into this, it is a fact

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Kuukai » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:24 pm

It's also worth adding that the FMD doesn't really have anything to do with "Soul Digitalization", aside from immersing you in the setting, which helps to being your sense of identity "close" enough to The World for you to get lost in it. There is a side story in the news about "neuro goggles" but when it comes down to it players control their characters with a gamepad, not their minds. When they do control things with their minds (the Epitaph Users in G.U.), this is considered strange and unbelievable.
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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Lindz » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:13 pm

(Phantom) Thief wrote:Spoilers Reader Beware

Yes the information was also confirmed in Old Testament. By Unision Sora has become a wandering AI. Like the Tsukasa and Subaru AI Helba suggests that three of them were created from by the player’s memory and stored in their trashed character data. The Tsukasa and Subaru AI vaguely remember having friends but regain their memories through e-mail. Sora seems more together than the other two however his text speech is corrupt.

Does trashed character data their characters were deleted or stopped being used? Or was it like those "Tsukasa's" in the Net Slum near the end of SIGN? Does this sorta thing occur with EVERY PC? If so "The World" must be one bloated as heck games lol.

During 2006 Harald discovered a special wavelength that allow that a player, in this case Lara to physically enter the game. As Amagi researched Harald during 2015 he captured the understandings by this property and labeled it Real Digitization. As time moved the process that brings people into The World and created each of the Lost Ones began to occur in larger lighter frequencies. Shamrock called it Soul Digitalize. By 2020 Real Digitalize (リアルデジタライズ) is the technology that allows a human to physically enter a virtual space in which a mobile device such as a P-COM emits a specific wavelength of light and transforms solid matter into particles of light, receive it as data and act as the Liminatlity of the game. The second and third characters to ever experience Real Digitization aside from Lara Hoerwick are the scientist Jyoutaro Amagi and the Double-Ware Tokio Kuryuu

Lara, Jyoutaro and Tokio... what about Harald? Do we know what happened to him? He disappeared shortly after selling fragment to CC Corp right? I always assumed he real digitalized himself... or jumped in a lake! (Maybe the same lake Tanaka ends up at in Thanatos dundundun)

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Kuukai » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:38 pm

I think you basically answered your first question... no one knows. But it seems to be the case that there's a lot of leftover data. Like the SIGN phantoms in the games.

Based on Link it sounds like Lara was the only one in the past to be real-digitalized, and in Mutation it's implied that Harald suffered the same fate as some of Net Slum's hackers, who are often overlooked when discussing the .hack universe, but nevertheless simply "forgot" they weren't part of the game, becoming part of it and leaving their bodies behind.

In some ways it would make a lot of sense if Harald real-digitalized himself, but his symptoms don't quite match I guess.
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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby (Phantom) Thief » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:30 pm

.hack-fan7 wrote:it sounds pretty interesting how the kid over time developed all these different contexts and such
but i just cant forgive him killing my fave character so many damn times. :?


Blame Morganna :(

Based on Link it sounds like Lara was the only one in the past to be real-digitalized, and in Mutation it's implied that Harald suffered the same fate as some of Net Slum's hackers, who are often overlooked when discussing the .hack universe, but nevertheless simply "forgot" they weren't part of the game, becoming part of it and leaving their bodies behind.


In some ways it would make a lot of sense if Harald real-digitalized himself, but his symptoms don't quite match I guess.
Does trashed character data their characters were deleted or stopped being used? Or was it like those "Tsukasa's" in the Net Slum near the end of SIGN? Does this sorta thing occur with EVERY PC? If so "The World" must be one bloated as heck games lol.


Well as the previous comment pointed out really no one knows certain. Data is more versatile than the series is able to suggest. However the game does maintain its own backup information. For example right now Kuukai & Myself are using items known as an account. But as we log in to post the server might take a piece of this data, transfer it our computer, move it into public domain or create a backup of the information and duplicate it. As for the next question Morganna purposely created the Tsukasa AI during SIGN. The Wandering AI for Netslums are from the player's memories that appear through the game. Because An and Mariko's were never hindered by their creations I think Tsukasa and Subaru are just separate duplicates from their accounts.

Lindz wrote:Lara, Jyoutaro and Tokio... what about Harald? Do we know what happened to him? He disappeared shortly after selling fragment to CC Corp right? I always assumed he real digitalized himself... or jumped in a lake! (Maybe the same lake Tanaka ends up at in Thanatos dundundun)


During Terminal Disk the series states that Morganna had driven Harald insane and trapped him inside the game. And that according to Bansyoya Harald's physical body maybe dead.

Kuukai wrote:It's also worth adding that the FMD doesn't really have anything to do with "Soul Digitalization", aside from immersing you in the setting, which helps to being your sense of identity "close" enough to The World for you to get lost in it. There is a side story in the news about "neuro goggles" but when it comes down to it players control their characters with a gamepad, not their minds. When they do control things with their minds (the Epitaph Users in G.U.), this is considered strange and unbelievable.
.

Ah you reminded me of some information. Our thought is kind of an electric signal. No one ever mentions it but during .hack//G.U. Trilogy Ovan explained that AIDA were also a type of electric signal in the form of an AI. When it infects a computer its nothing serious. But as AIDA infects a person and it disrupts their consciousness some of the normal body functions are lost and become the reason for the coma. Furthermore electrical signals are also a form of electromagnetism and carry property known as a wavelength. However at the moment though I prefer the explanations building from .hack//Bullet

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Re: Question regarding Sora in "Unison" (spoilers)

Postby Lindz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:29 pm

Kuukai wrote:Based on Link it sounds like Lara was the only one in the past to be real-digitalized, and in Mutation it's implied that Harald suffered the same fate as some of Net Slum's hackers, who are often overlooked when discussing the .hack universe, but nevertheless simply "forgot" they weren't part of the game, becoming part of it and leaving their bodies behind.

In some ways it would make a lot of sense if Harald real-digitalized himself, but his symptoms don't quite match I guess.

During Terminal Disk the series states that Morganna had driven Harald insane and trapped him inside the game. And that according to Bansyoya Harald's physical body maybe dead.

I suppose this points ta soul insteada real digitilization for him. Thanks for clearing that up!

(Phantom) Thief wrote:Well as the previous comment pointed out really no one knows certain. Data is more versatile than the series is able to suggest. However the game does maintain its own backup information. For example right now Kuukai & Myself are using items known as an account. But as we log in to post the server might take a piece of this data, transfer it our computer, move it into public domain or create a backup of the information and duplicate it. As for the next question Morganna purposely created the Tsukasa AI during SIGN. The Wandering AI for Netslums are from the player's memories that appear through the game. Because An and Mariko's were never hindered by their creations I think Tsukasa and Subaru are just separate duplicates from their accounts.

That sorta makes a whole lotta sense and it sorta don't (cause I'm dense lol). I think I get it though!

Ah you reminded me of some information. Our thought is kind of an electric signal. No one ever mentions it but during .hack//G.U. Trilogy Ovan explained that AIDA were also a type of electric signal in the form of an AI. When it infects a computer its nothing serious. But as AIDA infects a person and it disrupts their consciousness some of the normal body functions are lost and become the reason for the coma. Furthermore electrical signals are also a form of electromagnetism and carry property known as a wavelength. However at the moment though I prefer the explanations building from .hack//Bullet

Ohhhh yeah. Cell briefly went here as well in explaining how the virtual Midori could enter the real Midori's body/mind.


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