So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:12 pm

Keyaki wrote:
"Might eventually have proven useful," to phrase it precisely. If the whole thing was more of an accident that an incident (we don't have enough information to know which it was, but either is plausible), that would still be understandable because they have every incentive to keep random dangerous technology on the internet. That's why the Movie happens, because the evolving virus used to spur adoption of Sophia years ago finally went out of control. And even that accident ends up being great for MaMa, because it results in the reconstitution of Aura.
Meaning that the Digital Bastille wasn't destroyed and the reason why the Sofia in Quantum went berserk was because it was the first instance of it being corrupted by the same Virus Bug we see in Beyond the World.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. Quantum either happened because MaMa used Hermit to gauge the usefulness of the Digital Penitentiary as an AI or as a behavior control system, or it happened because they gave up on it but left it plugged in because they thought it could be useful in the future.
Keyaki wrote:You mean that same AIDA we see in Returner that was in the form of a Chim Chim?
Yes, as AIDA are prone to do, it possessed some game data (a Chim Chim) to communicate.
Keyaki wrote:What was that thing anyway?
It was a present from Tokio, which AIKA possessed, as AIDA are prone to do, in order to sneak past Aura's defenses.
Keyaki wrote:Aura's currently imprisoned in that microchip somewhere in the middle of Yosemite Park. If Tanaka can find her I'm pretty sure the pro-Aura faction of Mama would be able to as well.
Tanaka has it now. The pro-Aura faction presumably doesn't have a doubleware receiving mysterious dreams of the location. A) Because it seems likely she can choose who to reach out to, like with AIKA and Tokio, and B) because they would have used this person by now.
Keyaki wrote:I mean disappear as in just vanish somewhere within the internet.
That hasn't worked in the past because she's still somewhere on the internet. Schicksal was even able to capture Aura somehow sometime after G.U.
Keyaki wrote:
Unfortunately, Shamrock is just as continuity-busting in Japanese.
Da fuq?
As in, everything she says is wrong.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:09 pm

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Quantum either happened because MaMa used Hermit to gauge the usefulness of the Digital Penitentiary as an AI or as a behavior control system, or it happened because they gave up on it but left it plugged in because they thought it could be useful in the future.


I like the former better because the latter just seems to be way too irresponsibly deadly and stupid...even with Mama's lack of willing to think twice about the well-being of others' consciousness.

And 'behavior control system'?
A) Because it seems likely she can choose who to reach out to, like with AIKA and Tokio


Yea, I remember reading that(currently on chapter 14, probably the darkest installment of .Hack yet).

But "reach out"? Lol what? Are we going back to that psychic ability discussion we had back in //GU?


As in, everything she says is wrong.


I know. I mean "da fuq" as in why the f*ck did it seem like a good idea the seemingly **** up the continuity?
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:30 pm

Keyaki wrote:And 'behavior control system'?
That's one way Pi describes it.
Keyaki wrote:But "reach out"? Lol what? Are we going back to that psychic ability discussion we had back in //GU?
That's really what we're dealing with now. To be fair, telling someone where you are in a dream makes as much sense as a coma victim's pulse increasing while there's fighting in the game.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:52 pm

Kuukai wrote:
Keyaki wrote:And 'behavior control system'?
That's one way Pi describes it.


Da fuq, Pi?

That's not what the Digital Bastille consisted of at all!

Kuukai wrote:
Keyaki wrote:But "reach out"? Lol what? Are we going back to that psychic ability discussion we had back in //GU?
That's really what we're dealing with now. To be fair, telling someone where you are in a dream makes as much sense as a coma victim's pulse increasing while there's fighting in the game.


The latter I understood because even though they were in a coma, their consciousness was still barely connected to their outside bodies enough to cause the reactions.

But an AI communicating to someone via a dream, as cool as it is, just seems to be a whole new level of crazy.

Though, yea, it does make sense.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:55 am

In both cases there's a connection, though. Tokio met AIKA when he was digitalized into Akashic Line, and Aura saved Tanaka when he was a Lost One.
Keyaki wrote:
Kuukai wrote:
Keyaki wrote:And 'behavior control system'?
That's one way Pi describes it.


Da fuq, Pi?

That's not what the Digital Bastille consisted of at all!
Actually it did. She mentions mind control, and we see this in the form of Hermit telling Mary what to do.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Lindz » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:09 pm

All this super secret important yet stashed away only in info book info needs ta be compiled in a post/thread/whatever >_<

Keyaki wrote:But "reach out"? Lol what? Are we going back to that psychic ability discussion we had back in //GU?

Or its a Cell thing where they're entering peoples bodies/consciousness! Maybe Tokio's goggles were the latest M2D model and he fell asleep with them one once an thats how he had the whole Link tutorial dream lol. Come to think of it Cell was pretty crazy. Couldn't Midori see places/things in the real world just from being in Adamas's display? AI's looking out at the world and entering peoples bodies are steps close to Digital Realization... lets hope the series never goes there x.x

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:39 pm

Cell, Epitaph, these all laid groundwork for this kind of thing. The tutorial dream was data drain / doubleware synchronization though.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:53 pm

Or its a Cell thing where they're entering peoples bodies/consciousness! Maybe Tokio's goggles were the latest M2D model and he fell asleep with them one once


I doubt that. Those goggles were just regular goggles. Besides, I believe that point the M2Ds got replaced with the P-COM.

I never finished Cell. I still have the book and tried on 2 separate occasions to read it. But it just could not keep me entertained.

The tutorial dream was data drain / doubleware synchronization though.


The play tutorial in Link was a dream?
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:11 pm

In the manga they are for the P-Com, in the game they probably are but are never explained. He never uses them, though. In fact they get turned into not-goggles halfway through.

It was a data drain-induced synchronic experience... how about that?
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:46 pm

It was a data drain-induced synchronic experience... how about that?


Meaning like a vision?

All this super secret important yet stashed away only in info book info needs ta be compiled in a post/thread/whatever >_<


Or better yet, on the f*cking wiki>_>;;

She mentions mind control, and we see this in the form of Hermit telling Mary what to do.



Why would Mama care about mind control? Real/Soul Digitalization of everyone on Earth isnt enough for them?
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:39 am

Keyaki wrote:Meaning like a vision?
Like data.
Keyaki wrote:Or better yet, on the f*cking wiki>_>;;
The problem with the wiki is that as the original members have become less active (presumably with having lives) it's been overrun by poor-quality content and trying to redo it all to my/the founders' standards would require way more free time than I have. Someone got the brilliant idea to rework character versions without any consensus whatsoever or understanding what the Twilight Knights were. Another contributor loves to sneak in incomplete articles as "finished." Characters are the backbone of the way the wiki tells the story of .hack, so it would take a lot of effort to make the wiki as good as it once was. It would require a group of diligent, driven people with a unified vision. That said, I put information all the way through 2025 onto the wiki. Erna needs to be undated to indicate that, yes, she is Emma. But that could best be done if we figured out the character policy for the site a little better, and I don't have time for that war.
Keyaki wrote:Why would Mama care about mind control? Real/Soul Digitalization of everyone on Earth isnt enough for them?
But it's a useful tool for getting there. Same reason they own guns.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:14 pm

The problem with the wiki is that as the original members have become less active (presumably with having lives) it's been overrun by poor-quality content and trying to redo it all to my/the founders' standards would require way more free time than I have. Someone got the brilliant idea to rework character versions without any consensus whatsoever or understanding what the Twilight Knights were. Another contributor loves to sneak in incomplete articles as "finished." Characters are the backbone of the way the wiki tells the story of .hack, so it would take a lot of effort to make the wiki as good as it once was. It would require a group of diligent, driven people with a unified vision. That said, I put information all the way through 2025 onto the wiki. Erna needs to be undated to indicate that, yes, she is Emma. But that could best be done if we figured out the character policy for the site a little better, and I don't have time for that war.


Lol, reminds of Bandai's loss of interest with //Link.

Though having recently actually started playing //Link, I'm getting a better understanding though I've barely begun, just seeing it for myself makes things clearer.

Though, having currently on Ch 14 for Bullet and seeing him in Link, Fluegel's got me kinda confused.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:33 pm

I double-checked the Link version of Returner. Sakisaka receives an email from Ovan to have the former Twilight Brigade goes to Coite Bodher for a reunion. There they find the AIDA precursor to AIKA, which spells out "Returner" but Ovan doesn't appear. The books that came with the game really don't mention his status. It's not very obvious if they were already thinking of the retcon at the time of Link, they could have been clearer. But interesting...
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:48 pm

Kuukai wrote:I double-checked the Link version of Returner. Sakisaka receives an email from Ovan to have the former Twilight Brigade goes to Coite Bodher for a reunion. There they find the AIDA precursor to AIKA, which spells out "Returner" but Ovan doesn't appear. The books that came with the game really don't mention his status. It's not very obvious if they were already thinking of the retcon at the time of Link, they could have been clearer. But interesting...



You saying that there's a possibility that they planned this retcon?
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:56 pm

I was chatting over Twitter and we were thinking about how maybe the Returner retcon wasn't as serious as we first thought.

Like if they originally planned for it to be like Ovan is back he's fine hooray we never really /saw/ that. We just saw him meeting with Aina in game.

I mean we all interpreted that as him being okay IRL but what if he was just like an AI in Returner? I'm not sure if that comic Rei Idumi did was considered canon, but it could support that this was the plan from the start and we were all just too hopefull.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:29 pm

They might have planned it, might not have. The books that came with Link seem fearful of talking about what happened, while also fearful of not acknowledging it.

But one other thing I realized is that although it takes place at Hidden Forbidden Festival in English, the Japanese word used for "Festival" is "Bon Odori." This references Obon, an annual festival where departed ancestors are said to return temporarily. The living also all come home - somewhat explaining Sakisaka and Tabby's return, if you look at it that way. So there is a way of looking at that as the intention, but I don't think it's clear exactly what they were thinking.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Keyaki » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:44 pm

Kuukai wrote:They might have planned it, might not have. The books that came with Link seem fearful of talking about what happened, while also fearful of not acknowledging it.

But one other thing I realized is that although it takes place at Hidden Forbidden Festival in English, the Japanese word used for "Festival" is "Bon Odori." This references Obon, an annual festival where departed ancestors are said to return temporarily. The living also all come home - somewhat explaining Sakisaka and Tabby's return, if you look at it that way. So there is a way of looking at that as the intention, but I don't think it's clear exactly what they were thinking.


At this rate, its difficult to know what they're thinking thanks to //Quantum~
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