So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

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So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kenpobuu » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:15 am

I have been rewatching Roots because I finally have access to discs 5 and 6. I've just finished disc 3, but while rewatching Roots I'm a bit perplexed by Shino. The .hack//Wiki states that Shino was the original Epitaph User for Innis, but Innis left after she was PKed by Tri-Edge. It seems that that particular piece of information came from the GU+ manga. Should it be considered as possibly canon for Roots and the GU games as well?

Also, Shino appears to know more than most. I know Ovan has probably told her some things, but she seems to already know that major points of Ovan's plan. Does she? If so, how much does she actually know? And did she know that she was (possibly) an Epitaph User? Or did she know about Ovan's arm? Or about Aina? She just acted like she knew way more than everyone else about Ovan and his master plan, but I can't seem to figure out why he told her so much or how much she actually knew. Is there any information on this?

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:10 pm

It's not just from G.U.+, it's provided as background information for the canonical series as well. It's even in the Link background information. It seems she hadn't awakened yet, though.

She didn't seem to know how dangerous Ovan was, or even who Aina was exactly, but she knew that he wanted the Key of the Twilight.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:12 pm

I believe this was all clarified in infobooks and talk events so I'll give a run down of what I remember off the top of my head:

Shino was confirmed to be the former epitaph user of Innis in a magazine interview.
Aina introduced Shino to Ovan (I grabbed this off the now defunct JP WIKI so Idk how legit it was) so she most likely knows about everything Ovan plans to to do. It's made more apparent in GU+ and the novels (while not canon) that her 'death' had a pretty negative impact on him as well which lends more weight to her being Ovan's only real confident. (there's a scrapped storyboard in one of the archive books showing his reaction being similar to Haseo's)

As for knowing she was an epitaph user that seems likely since Ovan somehow "sensed" Haseo's presence when he first logged in. Maybe it's a special trait of Corbenik, I'm not too sure.

Tl;Dr: Ovan and Shino knew each other before the Aina incident so we can assume they were close enough to have been on the same page with one another.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kenpobuu » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:23 pm

Thank you guys for the quick responses. I'm not sure if Ovan knew how dangerous he was before that event either honestly, but it just seemed out to me that Shino knew so much. She acted like she already knew Ovan's plans for Haseo (with comments like "You're Ovan's future, Haseo."), and possibly about Epitaphs (even if she hadn't awoken yet).

I don't know if it's only in the dub, but Shino specifically says the Phyllo introduced her to Ovan. And I'm glad that her being the former Innis carrier is canon because it makes some sense actually. As for Ovan's sensing thing, I assumed that was part of the AIDA attached to him. Ovan tells Haseo that Epitaphs and AIDA call to each other. Since he knows about Epitaphs (having one himself), I assumed that he was able to feel when they appeared (possibly only when they first appeared or attached to a PC body).

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:29 pm

Sorry I'm on mobile so quoting is a pain, but you're right about the Phyllo thing. I got some wires crossed somewhere because it was Aina who introduced Phyllo to Ovan and then Phyllo introduced Shino to Ovan.

(man I need a chart for these introductions)

Either way with how often Aina seemed to hang around with Phyllo it's a logical guess to assume they at least met.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:45 pm

If I remember Roots correctly, it was Phyllo who knew Ovan/Aina before the incident, but not Shino.

When you think about it, both Shino and Atoli have the "mirage" quality, not just because they look like each other but because they both have a profound respect and admiration of the "fake" (e.g. Shino's @HOME garden and love of hypotheticals, Atoli's love of the views and animals of The World).
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:38 am

Plus they're both deceitful though not in an inherently negative way, but they do hide their real selves behind a mask.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kenpobuu » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:07 am

Where exactly is this information about Phyllo knowing Aina coming from?

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Lindz » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:41 pm

From one of the later eps of Roots prolly. There's a flashback with Phyllo at the bridge as usual and the reflection of a character model which looks alot like Aina's (can't see face though) sitting next to him.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kenpobuu » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:04 pm

Ah ok. I'll continue watching to see if that shows up. So last thing, everyone seems to agree that Shino, while close with Ovan, didn't really know what all was going on?

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:52 pm

That definitely seems to be the case. Although after she is PKed, she is linked to Ovan and aware of what he's doing.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Lindz » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:04 pm

Kinda curious what's up with her post-G.U. since Ovan is still(?) dead/missing according to Quantum? If they were close in real life you'd think she'd maybe be searching for him or something. But if they were just game buddies perhaps she'd have moved on.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:17 pm

Lindz wrote:Kinda curious what's up with her post-G.U. since Ovan is still(?) dead/missing according to Quantum? If they were close in real life you'd think she'd maybe be searching for him or something. But if they were just game buddies perhaps she'd have moved on.

This always bothered me as well. During .hack//Ch I think they said he's still unconscious but still like...that's what? 4 years in coma, 7~8 if they meant by 2024/5?

Medical bills must be insane.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kenpobuu » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:12 pm

Bullet Biter wrote:
Lindz wrote:Kinda curious what's up with her post-G.U. since Ovan is still(?) dead/missing according to Quantum? If they were close in real life you'd think she'd maybe be searching for him or something. But if they were just game buddies perhaps she'd have moved on.

This always bothered me as well. During .hack//Ch I think they said he's still unconscious but still like...that's what? 4 years in coma, 7~8 if they meant by 2024/5?

Medical bills must be insane.


Doesn't Japan have some type of universal healthcare? That may help with those medical bills.

But I thought the ending of Vol. 3 (after the Forest of Pain) and Returner both showed Ovan reuniting with Aina? I assumed that meant he was alive and well after it was all said and done.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:55 am

Kenpobuu wrote:
Bullet Biter wrote:
Lindz wrote:Kinda curious what's up with her post-G.U. since Ovan is still(?) dead/missing according to Quantum? If they were close in real life you'd think she'd maybe be searching for him or something. But if they were just game buddies perhaps she'd have moved on.

This always bothered me as well. During .hack//Ch I think they said he's still unconscious but still like...that's what? 4 years in coma, 7~8 if they meant by 2024/5?

Medical bills must be insane.


Doesn't Japan have some type of universal healthcare? That may help with those medical bills.

But I thought the ending of Vol. 3 (after the Forest of Pain) and Returner both showed Ovan reuniting with Aina? I assumed that meant he was alive and well after it was all said and done.


Dunno if they do, actually. That's more of me just trying to crack a joke more than anything.

But yeah it seemed all good and well...then Quantum happened.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:59 am

Bullet Biter wrote:But yeah it seemed all good and well...then Quantum happened.
Exactly. Link tied up all the loose ends with perfect attention to the details, and then Quantum got the plot of Link wrong and some of the universe wrong. And for some reason they're committed to the Ovan thing now. It's truly bizarre because the AIDA in Returner are very important to the plot of Link, and by extension the plot of the movie, Thanatos Report, and a scene in bullet. If we pretend like Returner never happened, things don't work so well. It's not Roots.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Bullet Biter » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:21 pm

Kuukai wrote:
Bullet Biter wrote:But yeah it seemed all good and well...then Quantum happened.
Exactly. Link tied up all the loose ends with perfect attention to the details, and then Quantum got the plot of Link wrong and some of the universe wrong. And for some reason they're committed to the Ovan thing now. It's truly bizarre because the AIDA in Returner are very important to the plot of Link, and by extension the plot of the movie, Thanatos Report, and a scene in bullet. If we pretend like Returner never happened, things don't work so well. It's not Roots.


Know a few people who never got over that retcon. One of them still hopes they're sticking to this because they want to bring him back for the next game/anime.

Part of me wants to believe in that as well.

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:20 pm

 Clearly Tanaka is Ovan's son. He had him when he was 19... and disappeared when Tanaka was 6... And then he was adopted.

It would be interesting if the retcon was for future-story reasons, though.
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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kenpobuu » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:16 am

May I ask what exactly Quantum got wrong? I've not watched it since I first got it (English dub).

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Re: So about Shino... (Spoilers I suppose)

Postby Kuukai » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:41 am

Everything about Amagi besides what he looked like. He didn't want to Soul Digitalize people to end racism, he wanted to Real Digitalize people to achieve immortality. And that didn't end in 2015, it ended in 2020. He was trapped in the network for 5 years. Ovan isn't missing, and even if he was it's hard to say how dressing like Aina is going to help. For that matter, not just Shino, where are actual Aina, and Yata, in all of this? Pi was borderline obsessed with him.

According to the recent Archives, at least Bloody Christmas (the incident in Quantum) does fit into the greater story. After Aura disappears in Link, MaMa begins a second R.A. Plan. Sophia is one attempt to replace Aura by mass-producing her using fragments from the Akashic records, but the digital penitentiary research was an attempt to combine human minds into an "Ultimate AI" as well (as Geek mentions, it's essentially a quantum supercomputer), which in turn could be used to digitalize humanity. Neither project actually resulted in a new Ultimate AI, and Sophia was relegated to use as an anti-virus system.
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