Question about Haseo's Third Form

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Ranylyn
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ranylyn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:01 am

I'm just seeing this as a big "why?" for the reason I'll list below.

Maximum level is 150, right? Haseo clearly had no inkling as to Tri-Edge's power. Why be satisfied with level 133 when Tri-Edge could easily be 150, which would result in an Insta-KO if he hit Haseo? I personally feel that Haseo WAS grinding, trying to perfect his character for the next time he fought Tri-Edge, and th e next encounter came at level 133.

After all, look at how many PKs there are in The World. Would it take months to get 100 PKKs? Especially when he wipes them out in groups like in the opening. Heck, he could manage it in a week, if you ask me. I believe he only PKKd for information (He asked everyone about Tri-Edge) while grinding his way towards 150.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby GyppyGirl2021 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:42 am

...Isn't there the whole "cursed with power" and the reason as to why Haseo couldn't awaken while he was under the influence of said power? He was confident enough that he could defeat anyone, so the emotions that would cause his awakening were suppressed by that mindset. And remember, the only other person besides "Tri-Edge" who defeated him was Midori, and she was also an AI (well, kind of).

Of course, it's also possible that Haseo's level was fairly ordinary at the time and Harald just gave him absurd stats...
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ganheim » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:07 am

I'm pretty sure that Ender succeeded in PKing him at least once, but either way I agree that he was looking ahead to taking on Tri-Edge and was grinding in preparation for it - I'd have to agree with Ranylyn about him PKKing more for information (we all agree that part wasn't done for the experience).

The possibility of him gaining ridiculous stats from Harald is plausible, too. With no direct mention either way, it's certainly a possibility. His ability to take out Saburou bare-handed (well, bare-clawed) is certainly one indicator that he'd become extremely powerful and wasn't taking "regular" players very seriously. The fact remains that us not seeing him grinding is no sign that he wasn't grinding.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby GyppyGirl2021 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:56 pm

Reiko ditched Ender before Haseo got his power boost. She was playing as Pi by that point. Ender probably did PK Haseo early on in Roots, but that's nothing really to say about when he got powered up (after which only Midori and Azure Kite were able to defeat him, and they were both AIs, not regular players).
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ranylyn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:51 pm

The thing I don't like about this is that all we can do is speculate. If they had clearly told us, one way or another, that would be great. But sadly they do not.

It's the one weakness of Namco RPGs, basically. The stories and characters are far better than most other RPGs (.hack is a bit weaker than most Namco games in terms of story, but it's based in a fictional MMO so what do you expect? I think they work very well with the tools they have) but they still don't explain a few details like this which are basically only open to speculation.

Harald DID likely give Haseo a moderate power boost, which I feel survived the data dran. Compare Kuhn's stats to Matsu's for example. Steam Gunner Beats Adept rogue. Compare Haseo with twin blades to Natsume. Uh... where's Haseo's noticeable disadvantage, really? Haseo's power much more closely represents the other characters, which, according to the forums, is not how adept rogues work. They're unpopular since they're so weak.

As for awakening, however, I heard a very good theory about it, from someone on these boards. I forget who exactly but I have a hunch it was AuraTwilight. Don't quote me on this. Basically, each Phase's "attribute" was sort of a requirement for awakening. Haseo never really had a reason to fear death until Tri-Edge data drained him, which is when His avatar slowly began to awaken (and if I recall, finally did in the Bourdeaux fight, when he was struggling and feared defeat), since Skeith is "The Terror of Death." Likewise, if you look at Atoli, hers is "The Mirage of Deceit" and she awakened after being used and manipulated by a deceitful two faced bastard. I dunno, it makes sense to me, at least.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby GyppyGirl2021 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:03 pm

Of course, there's another possible reason that Haseo's stats are superior to Matsu's... it's because he's teh main crackter. Think about it... how much would it suck if you had to play through all three games controlling someone with stats as bad as Matsu's?

Not to mention, with the exception of Atoli vs Shino, Epitaph Users seem to be generally statistically superior to regular characters in some aspect or other... compare Endrance to the billions of other Blade Brandiers.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ranylyn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:10 pm

GyppyGirl2021 wrote:Of course, there's another possible reason that Haseo's stats are superior to Matsu's... it's because he's teh main crackter. Think about it... how much would it suck if you had to play through all three games controlling someone with stats as bad as Matsu's?

Not to mention, with the exception of Atoli vs Shino, Epitaph Users seem to be generally statistically superior to regular characters in some aspect or other... compare Endrance to the billions of other Blade Brandiers.


I actually never compared Endrance to the other Brandiers, but that does make sense. To an extent. Tabby owns more than Pi in battle, it seems. For the most part the only real advantage I saw was the lost weapons (Kuhn and Sakubo especially)

As for the main character thing, however... I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm a huge Tales series fan, but I just don't like the main character being superior. Like Tales of Symphonia, for example. Lloyd is the main character and has a legitimate storyline reason to be the strongest, but he's well balanced with the rest of the party. The slower attackers hit harder, and the hybrid mage/fighters may have slightly inferior close combat skills but have magic (which Lloyd cannot use.)
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby GyppyGirl2021 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:14 pm

I don't really think "superior" describes Haseo - he's more even with the rest of the party. Granted, Matsu probably reflects what people say an Adept Rogue's stats would be, but remember that he only uses one weapon.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ranylyn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:27 pm

GyppyGirl2021 wrote:I don't really think "superior" describes Haseo - he's more even with the rest of the party. Granted, Matsu probably reflects what people say an Adept Rogue's stats would be, but remember that he only uses one weapon.


Right. But consider how Matsu would be considered balanced if he actually used both weapons. His bayonet for flying foes and landing massive skill damage his broadsword for armored foes and normal combat... it's the best of both worlds, and he trades in some stats for it. Haseo has all the Adept Rogue advantages (Multitrigger, among other things) with stats comparable to the dedicated single class characters? I'd say that's superior, personally.
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Master ZED » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:52 pm

Ranylyn wrote:Harald DID likely give Haseo a moderate power boost, which I feel survived the data dran. Compare Kuhn's stats to Matsu's for example. Steam Gunner Beats Adept rogue. Compare Haseo with twin blades to Natsume. Uh... where's Haseo's noticeable disadvantage, really? Haseo's power much more closely represents the other characters, which, according to the forums, is not how adept rogues work. They're unpopular since they're so weak.
That "boost," if there ever was one, didn't survive the Data Drain. You're just forgetting about all the permanent stat boosters you acquired over the course of the games through all the Quests you had to and chose to do. Matsu sucks statistically because he doesn't do Quests/use the prizes on himself.

I mean, the Natsume comparison alone is unfair because by the time you can make said comparison, how many virtual steroids have you injected Haseo with by that point? Probably dozens! Go through Redemption on a new game without those items, and THEN tell me who's the superior Twin Blade.

My money's on Natsume.

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby Ranylyn » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:05 pm

Master ZED wrote:
Ranylyn wrote:Harald DID likely give Haseo a moderate power boost, which I feel survived the data dran. Compare Kuhn's stats to Matsu's for example. Steam Gunner Beats Adept rogue. Compare Haseo with twin blades to Natsume. Uh... where's Haseo's noticeable disadvantage, really? Haseo's power much more closely represents the other characters, which, according to the forums, is not how adept rogues work. They're unpopular since they're so weak.
That "boost," if there ever was one, didn't survive the Data Drain. You're just forgetting about all the permanent stat boosters you acquired over the course of the games through all the Quests you had to and chose to do. Matsu sucks statistically because he doesn't do Quests/use the prizes on himself.

I mean, the Natsume comparison alone is unfair because by the time you can make said comparison, how many virtual steroids have you injected Haseo with by that point? Probably dozens! Go through Redemption on a new game without those items, and THEN tell me who's the superior Twin Blade.

My money's on Natsume.


*chuckle* Fair enough, even if I typically used them on my party members to give them a boost and to avoid breaking the entire game by making Haseo a god. I do know I use at least one Attack and one defense booster per game on a full cycle (Volumea 1-3) Playthrough, so that's at least +9 to +15 depending on which items I use. And it's also true that I never use them on characters I rarely use, like Alkaid, Natsume, Antares, etc....
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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby emptyazureskies » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:43 am

ok so we know its 133 at time of data drain and we know he beat 100 pks at once and all were being pk'ed for the 2nd time and then he pk'd bordeaux's crew so he pk'd a 206 pks worth....

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Re: Question about Haseo's Third Form

Postby AZURE-KITE » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:54 pm

Ok now, here's my theory:
Haseo was 30-40ish when he met harald, harald boosted his status to 85-90ish, haseo leveled up while searching information about tri-edge(AKA Azure Kite), BUT the 8 months that are still 'Unknow' what he was doing? here's my theory, he was figthing with monsters to level up to his max level to defeat tri-edge, but he was with shino, tri-edge pked shino, and haseo with anger attacked him, then azure kite data drained haseo, now the 'boosts' that harald gived him stayed in his character, How do i prove that? here's an example: Haseo level 10 and atoli level 10 Vs Some random edge punisher, and a blade brandier level 15, who wins? haseo, Why? because he has his 'boosts', that's why he is so 'Superior' even in his firts form at level 10, But, why did he defeat Azure kite at level 40? because he wasn't alone, he was with another epitaph users and he already awakened skeith, he defeated azure kite because azure kite didn't data drained him, why? because he wasn't close to AIDA, so azure kite just attacked him in hopes that he would just die, go to a 'Normal' area and Azure kite to finish 'Deleting' AIDA from that place, so, what do you think about my theory?

Note: When it's about G.U. theories im the best!!:D i get sooooooo focused that i research in my mind what i readed about G.U. i research in places that none of you know that they exist, im such a smartz boy :3 o3o
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