What is your Favorite Marriage Clip?

[GyppyGirl2021]

You make a lot of good points in the post, but... I might also add that Atoli kind of "proposes" to Haseo in her own way (it's not really a proposal, but the way she words things, it almost seems like one to him...

I'd like someone who will get mad if I do something wrong.

...And that's pretty much Haseo. XD)

Also, you make it sound like Haseo has a one-dimensional, completely selfish personality. I don't think that's the case, personally - by the end of Redemption, he doesn't seem half as much a jerk as in the beginning, and he definitely seems considerably more selfless than he was before (Haseo is fairly straightforward, and tends not to hide his true intentions, basically the complete opposite of Ovan). Of course, if you consider that "selfish personality" thing, then he and Atoli would probably go hand-in-hand since they both have the same problem... but neh. I'm probably just trying to justify my preferences. XD

And I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that Haseo was not gay.

[Ranylyn]

Not to mention, Depending on how that chain of emails go, Atoli says that she'll do everything in her power to be the perfect girl for Haseo. I'd take a picture of my TV to prove it but my phone is cut off.


I see a lot of myself in Haseo. Kind of sad, I know, but I can be a real jerk and admitting my own flaws allows me to see this. This also allows me to say with certainty he's not as one dimensional as all that. We both have our phases when we're irritable as hell and only care about results (Haseo in his PKK days and early to mid Volume 1 days basically) which rubs people the wrong way and gives the impressions we're total assholes.

But, around the times when we're pulling out of these phases, we don't want to admit that we've been jerks. You can tell that Haseo's slowly coming around in Volume 1 because of his concern for Atoli when she goes missing, but in Volume 2 he's not even willing to admit it to himself until the Job Extension quest that he was acing like a moron. He may fail at expressing his feelings but this is when he stops beiong so harsh.

Phases that make someone act like a jerk are often rooted in some great sadness. In Haseo's case, it's pretty clear he feels responsible for not being able to save Shino. However, the events occuring with Alkaid didn't make him a jerk again, either. It barely stirred up the ghosts of the past, even. Again, he felt sorrow at not being able to save someone, but except for one scene, he was largely unaffected. The main reason I feel this scene is important actually ties in to the Moon Tree incident.

Between Shino and Alkaid, and his softening in Vol 2, Haseo realizes just how much of an impact a great shock can have on your force of will. The incident was not Atoli's fault, yet she claimed it was. Haseo saw that he couldn't convince her otherwise, so he encouraged her to work hard to make up for it. On the surface this may have been an apparent asshole move, but Endrance sums it up nicely: "Kind words aren't always truly kind once they're spoken." In essence, Haseo is telling Atoli to embrace her newfound determination and to move forward on her own, without Sakaki, and that's more powerful than what most one dimensional characters are capable of.

Haseo and Atoli both grew as people from their endeavors, and they grew together. Alkaid was a sore loser who didn't ever seem to take her defeats as motivation to train harder. If you ask me, this kind of makes the outcome clear, as time spent together forges bonds that are stronger than steel, and I know from personal experience.

[Ganheim]

He is also caustic. He grates more on the people he cares about than anyone else.

I think that grating more on people he cares about is because of proximity - he didn't irritate Gord, who never spent much time around him. Haseo seemed to become less of a jerk in general as the trilogy progressed, particularly to the people helping him out (such as Gaspard and Silabus, who helped him get his third form back).

While Alkaid doesn't technically agree to be married at that time, she does say that she's willing to see 'where it goes,' which is about as clear as asking someone out in games,

I should also mention that Alkaid is unique in that she is A. the only character it is possible to propose to twice, and B. is the only character that can be explicitly formed a relationship with. This is because, while Atoli and Haseo are clearly very fond of each other, the player can choose to send an emailed proposal to Alkaid. (Not tied to the card, as I remember it)

I'm not sure what you mean at B, because Haseo forms a relationship with a lot of people, some of them becoming fairly close (Atoli, Pi, Kuhn), and others much much more distant (Piros). I also want to point out that I think you're partially incorrect about proposing twice, though that deals somewhat with my suspicion of canonity in cards that I'll go into later: I believe you're referring to the Leader (Just follow me) Card:

Re: Marriage proposal
> Yes, it's a proposal.
...*blushes*
Um, well, Haseo...
I'm only a high school student...

I know that continues (I'm writing a Card FAQ), further supporting your idea. However, I think that the Flower Gift card shows a little more certainly (er...maybe just overtly) that there's serious interest from both of them in the other:

Re: So get it
> So get the wrong idea.
So that's how you really feel.

Haseo... I will forever keep those words in my
heart. Not Alkaid's, but in Chika's heart.

And just so you know...You don't want to see me
when I've had my heart broken!

In the end my point is that Alkaid, is as much canonically related to Haseo, as Atoli is.

I'll agree to that, though with the note that none of them are strictly "something happens" canon. You're correct about the trust/affection meter being a game mechanic and not any indicator of how the characters actually feel, though since the greeting cards can be thought of in the exact same manner of the Promise Card as non-canon because you can easily with-hold them and send any ones you want to whomever you want...in other words the information they reveal about the characters is canon, but the effects those cards have is not necessarily so.

Where the real trouble starts is that Bordeaux is 14,

I think the "Bordeaux is a creepy stalker that annoys him at best" is where the trouble with her starts, though I thought that her addition as a bonus character made no sense - though I've already gone over how I'd have preferred Saburou.

Tabby, Shino, Atoli, and Alkaid are all canonically heavily tied to Haseo relationship-wise, but any of the characters could develop, given enough time.

Very true.

Personally my favorites are Tabby, Alkaid, and Bordeaux. (I'd count Natsume in there if she didn't turn psycho at the last minute...)

Do you mean Natsume's repeated "Kite, look at me!" or "Are there any Tri-Edges lying on the ground?" Or something else? I'm also curious as to how Bordeaux adds to that list, because I don't see anything conducive to building a relationship in Roots or the games. Tabby was most definitely my fav from Roots (when she reappeared in the Forest, I did a little dance and cheered "Woo! She's back!", and that was before I found how easily she can tear through enemies...AND has a combo-fav). She was also the first one who said, to one degree or another (depending on your interpretation of "Haseo wo daisuke") "I love you, Haseo".

Atoli says that she'll do everything in her power to be the perfect girl for Haseo.

That's a pretty clear "pick me, Haseo! I like you!" to me. My only issue is that it seems to indicate she's still not growing out of her starting point of "I absolutely need somebody outside myself to validate my own existence", which I think is one of the pitiable things about Atoli.

Phases that make someone act like a jerk are often rooted in some great sadness. In Haseo's case, it's pretty clear he feels responsible for not being able to save Shino.

I think you're very close, but I think Haseo's issues stem from before that: his family was apparently almost completely uninvolved in his life, and he had virtually no friends in the real world. Shino was just the incident that forced him to dedicate himself instead of burying his head in the sand like he did through much of Roots. That's also, I think, why Alkaid's PKing didn't cause him to regress: he'd already started to advance as a person and he realized (besides the fact that he was already on the way to saving the Lost Ones) that he couldn't afford to be willfully blind to the people around him, that even if they couldn't do something to immediately help him that he had to sometimes look out for them so they could help him down the line.

but except for one scene, he was largely unaffected.

Well...he seemed to venerate Shino from Roots on, but once Alkaid was PKed her name showed up right next to Shino. The fact that dwelling on Alkaid would not have helped push the game forward is also a narrative issue that I think is partially responsible: especially if a significant portion of your audience already saw Roots, who would really want to see Haseo become a mopey recluse again? As to your Moon Tree comment, I'm afraid I don't understand - could you elaborate?

Haseo realizes just how much of an impact a great shock can have on your force of will. The incident was not Atoli's fault, yet she claimed it was.

Or ignorance - no matter how many people told her, no matter how much evidence was shown, she wanted to take everything on herself. Trying to convince Atoli that the AIDA server wasn't her fault is like trying to convince GyppyGirl2021 that Alkaid is not the spawn of satan.

Haseo is telling Atoli to embrace her newfound determination and to move forward on her own,

Though a lot of people had been working on that (Pi and Kuhn both mention discussing things with Atoli and trying to get her to move on), it was just a matter of getting through Atoli's thick skull. A lot of people had that particular problem - Haseo didn't truly seem to grow out of his 'shutting out everyone' issue until Alkaid became a Lost One, Pi didn't come to truly accept that anybody outside herself could really help project GU fight AIDA until she herself was overwhelmed by AIDA and Haseo saved her in Vol 1, and the list goes on.

Alkaid was a sore loser who didn't ever seem to take her defeats as motivation to train harder.

So what was that in the "crab cave quest" in volume 1? Seems to me more like she wouldn't stop training hard, her issue was more like Haseo's in that she (initially) had a single-mindedness that caused her to focus on her main goal (reclaiming the palace throne) and ignore things around her (like treating other people, particularly those she might have been struggling against, decently - and she does this with Atoli, so you can't claim she didn't grow).

[Satoh]

I never said Haseo was one dimensional, I merely rationalized the root of his system.

What I said was that he has every emotion, but that he felt it unnecessary to express them toward people who weren't worth his time.

That is a subconscious process I was referring to, not a conscious one. Sure he can seem like an ass... but that's simply because people don't understand his personality.

I'm similar in that way... I can't say anything to people I really hate, and I say any number of things to people I like, but those people understand what I mean when I do so, because they know me. (Unless I fly into an uncontrollable rage and start breaking things.... then all bets are off... Haseo did that once or twice...)

Anyway this is moving away from the true topic at hand... Hold tight and I'll make a thread for this...among other things.

Edit: we can discuss more here.
http://www.dothackers.net/forums/viewto ... 23&t=17469

[GyppyGirl2021]

Don't bring up anything from Volume 1 in regards to Alkaid. If it weren't for Volume 2 turning her into the lamest character on the face of this planet on par with Bella Swan, I wouldn't mind pairing her with Haseo. I'd likely still prefer Atoli, though - I don't think Haseo and Alkaid mix very well.

[Tolby]

What parts do you mean?

[Ranylyn]

What parts do you mean?

Volume 1: Alkaid and Endrance are both badass. 'Nuff said. In fact, bonus points to Endrance for being the very rare GOOD graceful badass, while Alkaid is a fair bit more... brutish.

Volume 2: Enter the derailment. Alkaid, who hates Haseo (and Endrance) for being a "no-good cheating lying bastard" teams up with Haseo to use him to get to the truth about Sirius (Haseo, whose goal is to recover Atoli's epitaph, agrees, beccause Alkaid is his ticket for information on Sirius.) She comes to realize that he's not the one man team she thought he was and that he actually watches out for his teammates in battle. This much is fine. However, where in there is there even enough time for bonding to warrant a romantic connection? In Volume 1, Alkaid was the type of person who cared about victory. How is it that suddenly in volume 2 the script writers decided "Let's make her a big softy because she has boobs" anyways? Not to mention, Alkaid hated Endrance, and why would she nominate Endrance to take her place?

tldr: Volume 2 debunked what Volume 1 established about characters who would become party members (even Matsu to a lesser extent, but a FAR lesser extent), and it is a humongous slew of wtf after wtf.


Comparison: Play Final Fantasy X and then play Final Fantasy X-2. In 2 short years, the robed summoner (Yuna) is flipping and shooting double pistols (which did not exist in the first game) and her cousin ("Brother") is lusting after her when in Game 1 he really didn't talk at all really except to tell the main character (Tidus) to take care of his sister (Rikku.) Cid, Yuna's uncle, went from somewhat of a hardass leader of his people to a snivelling crying turd, and yes, this kind of derailment is in fact what I'm comparing Alkaid to.

[Tolby]

1. She is a Tsundere. She was always a softy you just don't know that until you get to know her better.

2. Romance in G.U. is retarded. Thats another reason its bad. Oh hey Shino I've known you for like 6 months, you look right through me and used me. Now I'm gonna risk my life for you and go all crazy and spend all my time for our love. Oh whats this, crazy girls won't stop stalking me, I'll fall in love with her as well even though we haven't met that long. Alkaid was probably his healthiest relationship, though I do agree there wasn't too much time for it to flourish, but they did share a couple of moments and then there level up time in between where anything could have happened. Besides he is a hormone driven teen, they weren't claiming it was true love, just some form of friendship and attraction. She was hot, real life people love her at that point already and they never even met her.. because she isn't real. Not that I want to admit it, but the same could be said for Haseo. Later, his concern and tears for her death were over the top. Another thing wrong with the G.U. series, however it wasn't just Alkaid's death that caused it. It was the fact that he was already an emotion wreck and Alkaid was just another person he just couldn't protect. It could have been anyone. Hell, Piros could have made that emotional sack of avatar break down like a little girl.

[GyppyGirl2021]

I don't think you have any place in this thread if all you're going to do is spew out a long string of G.U. bashing.

Which is what you seem to do everywhere, but at least reserve it for other sections.

[Satoh]

I'd like to point out that Alkaid wears her irritation like a hat... If she's angry with someone, she makes it very clear, even so far as exaggerating that anger.

If Alcor is to be trusted, which according to a significant portion of the people on this subject it is, then it is clear that Alkaid goes for liking to hating back to liking people quite easily...

In fact I think she's merely playing the role of being angry. She lost and she's not happy about it, but she doesn't hate Endrance for winning.

I think Alkaid of all people cares about everyone in The World... at least in some way. I found it perfectly natural that she was worried when she saw the state Endrance was in in Vol. 2. So I wouldn't count anything out when dealing with GU characters... after all, you have to remember that they are playing a game, and it's easy to mistake people's true intentions online.

What it comes down to, is Alkaid talks a big game, but is really a down to Earth person. Her cockiness and flair is all part of her character, and not directly linked to Chika Kuramoto.

[Master ZED]

ChimGod's effect on characters' affection level is merely a game aspect and is impossible to be canon, unless the game is literally forcing players to like each-other more.

If AIDA can bring out frustration, hatred and yearning among all people on its servers, I don't see why The World couldn't encourage affection among teammates. :\

[Tolby]

I don't think you have any place in this thread if all you're going to do is spew out a long string of G.U. bashing.

Which is what you seem to do everywhere, but at least reserve it for other sections.

I wasn't the one who brought up the terrible romance time of Alkaid. I was just supporting my girl by saying G.U. as a whole is just as bad.

[Satoh]

ChimGod's effect on characters' affection level is merely a game aspect and is impossible to be canon, unless the game is literally forcing players to like each-other more.

If AIDA can bring out frustration, hatred and yearning among all people on its servers, I don't see why The World couldn't encourage affection among teammates. :\

Are you suggesting The World would directly affect people intentionally? Is not The World meant to be a passive observer, especially now that Aura is complete?

But anyway, I made a thread for this kind of thing... This thread is supposed to be about the scenes... So I think we're getting a bit off topic.

[Master ZED]

Are you suggesting The World would directly affect people intentionally? Is not The World meant to be a passive observer, especially now that Aura is complete?

Aura and The World are the same thing as of the end of IMOQ, and Aura can be quite whimsical. Don't forget who sends the Promise card in the first place.

[GyppyGirl2021]

I wasn't the one who brought up the terrible romance time of Alkaid. I was just supporting my girl by saying G.U. as a whole is just as bad.

Volume 2 would've been a great game if it weren't for Alkaid's thorough character derailment. I was just expressing the fact that she's my least favorite character thanks to those events.

And I don't think that being a Mary Sue is "just the way she is", in regards to Alkaid ._. The Sue-ism is pretty hard to deny, because it's not like Haseo to just suddenly accept her onto his team like that (at least, not the way he was at the time she joined). And it seems like everyone likes her, just as the fans and creator do... I'd think that Atoli would hate her guts for trying to steal Haseo, at least, but Atoli blames herself for Alkaid's coma in the end, which is also not like her (edit to previous statement: I fouled that one big time, it IS like her, but I still think that Atoli would be at least a little genuinely upset due to jealousy)

[Satoh]

I wasn't the one who brought up the terrible romance time of Alkaid. I was just supporting my girl by saying G.U. as a whole is just as bad.

Volume 2 would've been a great game if it weren't for Alkaid's thorough character derailment. I was just expressing the fact that she's my least favorite character thanks to those events.

And I don't think that being a Mary Sue is "just the way she is", in regards to Alkaid ._. The Sue-ism is pretty hard to deny, because it's not like Haseo to just suddenly accept her onto his team like that (at least, not the way he was at the time she joined). And it seems like everyone likes her, just as the fans and creator do... I'd think that Atoli would hate her guts for trying to steal Haseo, at least, but Atoli blames herself for Alkaid's coma in the end, which is also not like her (edit to previous statement: I fouled that one big time, it IS like her, but I still think that Atoli would be at least a little genuinely upset due to jealousy)

They fought eachother all the way... Besides, haven't you ever heard of friendly rivalry? Just because they both like Haseo doesn't mean they're duty-bound to not get along with eachother... That's a stereotype brought about by cheap media. The same can be said of people 'never getting along with their Exes...' Sure it can happen, but it doesn't have to, and making it happen doesn't make it any more realistic, it just makes it conform more to the average concept...

If you want conformity, .hack is not the story set you should be into. .hack is all about breaking common ideas and going outside the bounds of "normalcy." (if there is such a thing in reality)


But if you want my honest opinion on the entirety of the character development of GU... Atoli get's the most screentime in proportion to the amount of actual development she gets. What I mean is, she's shown on screen emoing over everything for the entire series... and... doesn't... really... change. She's still emoing over everything in the end... she just doesn't do it in every scene anymore...

[GyppyGirl2021]

Eh, I don't think Atoli would've naturally gotten along that well with Alkaid... she probably would've seen Alkaid's antics as an honest attempt to steal away Haseo, which I don't think she'd like very much ._.

And honestly, I think she changed a lot. Compared to parroting Sakaki all the time in Volume 1 and being utterly emo in Volume 2, her character was downright lovable in Volume 3... Returner adds to that opinion of mine (her being lovable, I mean). XD

[Ranylyn]

Eh, I don't think Atoli would've naturally gotten along that well with Alkaid... she probably would've seen Alkaid's antics as an honest attempt to steal away Haseo, which I don't think she'd like very much ._.

"Probably" is an understatement if you remember this scene before Nala in the arena

(Referencing youtube for the exact punctuation, here, because I know I missed a LOL from Alkaid by memory since I remember voices more than text)


Alkaid: Now that we've trained together, I know we can take on anybody without a problem!

Atoli: To... to...

Alkaid: To?

Atoli: Together?

Alkaid: Yeah, together!

Atoli: What does she mean by that, Haseo?!

Haseo: Oh, we just... uh, you know....

Atoli: What were you two doing while I was off getting better?!

Haseo: Come on, you couldn't log in, right? So....

Alkaid: We did some really hot, super secret training, just the two of us. LOL

Atoli: Haseo? Is that true?

Haseo: Well, I uh... well you see....

Atoli: It is true, isn't it?!

Haseo: ... uh, yeah....

Atoli: Hmph! I see! Well isn't that just fantastic!!

Haseo: Hey now! Don't go getting yourself all worked up by jumping to conclusions!!


So yeah... "Probably" is "definitely" an understatement!

[Satoh]

You're both assuming that A. Atoli is entitled to having Haseo, which is an erroneous concept.

and B. that Atoli, of all people, would FEEL like she was entitled to Haseo. Atoli hasn't felt like she deserved anything throughout the entire series...

Another point you seem to be leading to is that Atoli isn't smart enough to understand Alkaid's sense of humor.

She doesn't get it in that scene because they haven't met much.


But in the end I suppose it just comes down to the fact that I loathe being around people with BPD, which she has.

[GyppyGirl2021]

...Er, Atoli is kind of entitled to having Haseo, she doesn't really have much other purpose in the series XD

Well, other than being the awesome and cute female lead. Which I think is her perfect role <3