Qustion regarding Combo Assist

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-Raina-
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Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by -Raina- »

I was wondering, is it possible to get in more hits with a rapid attacking weapon without a War Drum equipped?

For example, with a broadsword equipped (well, the one I have equipped at the moment, anyway), I can get in 10 extra hits while holding down the X button with Combo Assist. However, if I don't have Combo Assinst on, is it possible to get even more than 10 hits by tapping the X button really fast manually? Or is there a limit?
Last edited by -Raina- on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Master ZED
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by Master ZED »

No, there's an input limit that Combo Assist matches up with perfectly. The best a human can do without a War Drum is just match that input rate as best they can.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by GyppyGirl2021 »

I wasn't even sure how to use Combo Assist, I probably should've asked... it never seemed to do anything when I used it.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by -Raina- »

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info. I was thinking, "Hmm, only 10 hits in that amount of time? Anyone can tap the X button on their own faster than that..." Well, I guess I'll keep Combo Assist on for when I'm feeling lazy. ^^ (I tend to stick with rapid attack weapons, I like how you can get Rengekis really quick with them. Hold and release weapons make me feel like I'm going in slow motion, unless they're dual swords.)
GyppyGirl2021 wrote:I wasn't even sure how to use Combo Assist, I probably should've asked... it never seemed to do anything when I used it.
Did you have it equipped to a "hold and release" weapon?
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by GyppyGirl2021 »

Oh, that's a good idea. I tend to prefer hold and release weapons anyway, the problem is getting them. XD

I was thinking of a Nezumi/Otome/Hidaru setup for this playthrough, though. I'd have Toge, but I don't like it. >_<
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-Raina-
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by -Raina- »

Getting them? Is it hard to find them or something? I've never noticed, since I've never tried going out of my way to look for them.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by GyppyGirl2021 »

Well, for one, the three highest level regular weapons of each of Haseo's weapon classes are rapid attack, and with the exception of scythes (where there are only two rapid attack ones, amusingly the only weapon class I like in rapid attack), hold and release weapons seem to be fairly rare, especially with dual swords... in Volume 3, the new regular dual swords are Mujin, Nezumi, Gorai and Drake... only Nezumi is hold and release.

I especially can't stand spinning-type dual swords because they're near impossible to control. They're fine when given to an AI, however (as I've noticed with Alkaid in Volume 2 with her Dorje Hatchet).
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Ranylyn
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by Ranylyn »

As Zed said, there's an input limit. I can mash the A button on a gamecube controller 110 times in 10 seconds (As demonstrated by Mario Party 4) so you'd think I could get more than 10 hits with a rapid attacks broadsword, right? Well, it doesn't matter now many times I press it, really, because 10 is the maximum, and wearing myself down with all that mashing for nothing...?

Rapid Attack Twinblades are best for combo assist because of the length of their combo and of course getting perfect hits on the rapid attacks part with no effort. Rapid attacks Broadswords and Scythes are also nice for combo assist. Hold and release weapons... not so much. After all, Combo Assist uses up a customization slot.

In Vol 2, when I got to the end, and before hunting Doppelgangers, I had a Soul Heaven (Combo assist Rapid Attacks Twinblade with SP Drain) Drain Fenlong (hold and release HP Drain Broadsword, also had a sleep effect) and a Paralyze Hidaru (Paralyze/ Darkness Attack) These worked well but once I got the Heine's weapons they became all but useless till Volume 3 (The Doppelganger weapons BS special effects like Devolve Invite seem to be considerably toned down in Vol 3, even if the Scythe's SP drain is boosted)
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by Advent_Winter »

Preferably, I like to get flashy with the combos with GC (Gaurd Canceling) on either H/R or R/A weapons, in all classes in Haseo's inventory. Personally, you get better results doing that instead of using R/A weapons for combo hits. Rengeki spawning is different if you have an attatchment like "jetspeed" or something.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by -Raina- »

What's jetspeed? Is it from Redemption? I don't recall ever hearing anything about it.

I also don't really care for the spinning dual swords, since the combos carry out longer than I want them to. But guard canceling easily takes care of that (except in Rebirth, I could never interrupt any of my attacks with O for some reason.)

The item you can equip to get Quick Rengeki...I've never understood how that worked. Rapid attack weapons alone work just fine for me, but even with Quick Rengeki on a R/A weapon, it doesn't seem like there's that much of a difference, I just feel like I'm wasting a slot I could be using for something more useful.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by TheSorrow »

What's jetspeed? Is it from Redemption? I don't recall ever hearing anything about it.
Jet Speed Attack, an ability for weapons granted by the item "Shogun's Fan", an item from Redemption. It's basicly an upgrade of Quick Rengeki, decreasing the number of attacks needed for Rengeki alot, and it occupies 3 slots (don't remember that...but most Redemption items use up all 3 slots).
I also don't really care for the spinning dual swords, since the combos carry out longer than I want them to. But guard canceling easily takes care of that (except in Rebirth, I could never interrupt any of my attacks with O for some reason.)
You can use Guard Cancelling in Rebirth as well...in fact, i think i used it in Rebirth before getting Reminisce. I think it takes longer to do the "guarding" animation in Rebirth in comparison to the other games, but still, you just have to hold O for a little more, rather than just quickly tap it.
The item you can equip to get Quick Rengeki...I've never understood how that worked. Rapid attack weapons alone work just fine for me, but even with Quick Rengeki on a R/A weapon, it doesn't seem like there's that much of a difference, I just feel like I'm wasting a slot I could be using for something more useful.
Yeah, there's a difference. Not sure about the Dual Swords, but for the Broadswords, it reduces the amount of hits needed in like 3-4 hits, and that's quite useful for times where you need to do Rengekis and finish battles as quick as possible. It's quite an useful item, at least in my opinion, after all, in low level games only a few abilities are worth using against bosses, Quick/Jet Speed being one of them.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by GyppyGirl2021 »

My problem with most rapid attack weapons is that they're too hard to control. I'm not really sure I can justify liking scythes more than broadswords in that regard though, they have similar rapid attacks yet I can't stand broadswords and scythes are my favorite rapid attack weapons :\

Problem with rapid attack weapons (especially spinning dual swords, I just can NOT use them) is that it seems like it's impossible to cancel out of the rapid attack with guard canceling, but scythes just seem faster for me. I dunno, maybe it's an illusion caused by bias... >_<

I was thinking of using a few different customizations this PT, like Quick Rengeki and Seal Attack (I almost always use paralysis, but seal seems like it can be useful in some situations, I think that the enemy still being able to attack fairly easily is a huge disadvantage though). I'm trying to mix and match some of the ones I didn't use before - I like to use elemental boosters, but they actually seem fairly useless in the majority of situations...

My biggest problem with my tendency to not transfer to Volume 3 from Volume 2 is Atoli's staff. Spell Noble is exceptionally rare in Volume 3 (you can only get it in guild shops on Theta server and some areas, and even then it's a high-level weapon so it's not easy to find), so it's better to transfer from Volume 2 because in Volume 2 you can get infinite Spell Nobles through trading (NAOO and a few others, I think, although NAOO is the only one I can remember so she's the primary source, I hate how she changes to a grimoire in Volume 3 since I don't really use Shadow Warlocks). The primary reason I use Flame Dancer on Atoli is not only because of the "No Interrupt" effect it gives her, but also because I don't really have many other choices until I get the two rare staves in Volume 3.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by Advent_Winter »

GyppyGirl2021 wrote:My problem with most rapid attack weapons is that they're too hard to control. I'm not really sure I can justify liking scythes more than broadswords in that regard though, they have similar rapid attacks yet I can't stand broadswords and scythes are my favorite rapid attack weapons :\ Problem with rapid attack weapons (especially spinning dual swords, I just can NOT use them) is that it seems like it's impossible to cancel out of the rapid attack with guard canceling, but scythes just seem faster for me. I dunno, maybe it's an illusion caused by bias... >_<
The problem with me on R/A weapons is the fact that they are ALL too slow for me. It seems that with H/R weapons, you're able to perform some flexible combos without breaking momentum, especially if you take the charge moves into consideration. Now, to me, the overall performance of the R/A weapons, (Especially Dual Swords with the spin attack option), are mediocre without GC or skill trigger evasion.
GyppyGirl2021 wrote:I was thinking of using a few different customizations this PT, like Quick Rengeki and Seal Attack (I almost always use paralysis, but seal seems like it can be useful in some situations, I think that the enemy still being able to attack fairly easily is a huge disadvantage though). I'm trying to mix and match some of the ones I didn't use before - I like to use elemental boosters, but they actually seem fairly useless in the majority of situations...
Seal attack seems to be pretty useless on monsters, but extremely useful on Arena battles and PK's. Even without magic, the monsters still packed a pretty good punch.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by hidora »

Advent_Winter wrote:
GyppyGirl2021 wrote:I was thinking of using a few different customizations this PT, like Quick Rengeki and Seal Attack (I almost always use paralysis, but seal seems like it can be useful in some situations, I think that the enemy still being able to attack fairly easily is a huge disadvantage though). I'm trying to mix and match some of the ones I didn't use before - I like to use elemental boosters, but they actually seem fairly useless in the majority of situations...
Seal attack seems to be pretty useless on monsters, but extremely useful on Arena battles and PK's. Even without magic, the monsters still packed a pretty good punch.
I like to use the Hisame Engine on the bike, but it doesn't seem to stop them from casting magics. So, AFAIK, the only monster really affected by Seal is Doppelganger (he isn't really a monster, though >_>).
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

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hidora wrote:I like to use the Hisame Engine on the bike, but it doesn't seem to stop them from casting magics. So, AFAIK, the only monster really affected by Seal is Doppelganger (he isn't really a monster, though >_>).
I recall some kind of glitch about the Hisame Engine though....that it doesn't work. Sure, when you crash the enemies with it, they gain the "Seal" status, but are able to freely use skills and magic, and it's not exactly because they aren't affected by Seal or they aren't magic/skills, since when you use an item (or some Dance Macabre spell, if it exists) to inflict Seal on them, they're indeed "sealed" from using magic and skills until it wears off.

So, Hisame Engine pretty much does nothing...still gives a very lasting "Seal" animation on monsters, but that's all it really does. Charm and Poison and other status effects inflicted by bike engines do work, it's just this one that doesn't seem to do anything.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by hidora »

Well, Hisame Engine's Seal DOES work on Doppelganger, and I'm happy with that since the only monster whom I'd like to use Seal is him. It saves me a lotta work (and SP and healing items) when I'm looking for Virus Cores.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by Ranylyn »

Seal works on seal guardians. Lifesaver at low levels and you can't outdamage their heals without awakenings.

Honestly, I prefer to stick to items for seal and use paralyze weapons, myself.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

Post by Master ZED »

TheSorrow wrote:
hidora wrote:I like to use the Hisame Engine on the bike, but it doesn't seem to stop them from casting magics. So, AFAIK, the only monster really affected by Seal is Doppelganger (he isn't really a monster, though >_>).
I recall some kind of glitch about the Hisame Engine though....that it doesn't work. Sure, when you crash the enemies with it, they gain the "Seal" status, but are able to freely use skills and magic, and it's not exactly because they aren't affected by Seal or they aren't magic/skills, since when you use an item (or some Dance Macabre spell, if it exists) to inflict Seal on them, they're indeed "sealed" from using magic and skills until it wears off.
Actually, I found later that it's the Seal ailment in general. Against some monsters (Dibro and Abado in particular), it can simply fail to do anything even though they can be affected by the ailment.
TheSorrow wrote:You can use Guard Cancelling in Rebirth as well...in fact, i think i used it in Rebirth before getting Reminisce. I think it takes longer to do the "guarding" animation in Rebirth in comparison to the other games, but still, you just have to hold O for a little more, rather than just quickly tap it.
Actually, in Rebirth, guard canceling works the same in execution, but it's a lot less useful. In volumes 2 and 3, guard canceling gets beefed up and can now cancel hold and release, rapid attacks, and charge attacks. It can't do any of that in Rebirth; GC only works on regular attacks there.

And of course, there's never a reason to tap O to cancel. Holding always works.
-Raina- wrote:The item you can equip to get Quick Rengeki...I've never understood how that worked. Rapid attack weapons alone work just fine for me, but even with Quick Rengeki on a R/A weapon, it doesn't seem like there's that much of a difference, I just feel like I'm wasting a slot I could be using for something more useful.
Quick Rengeki/Jet Speed Attack work by increasing the Rengeki induction power of regular attacks by about 25% (QR) and 50% (JSA). However, they don't affect anything else, so if you whore rapid attacks a lot, for example, you won't see much, if any benefit. That sounds like a major detriment until you realize just how damn powerful the effects actually are if you change your fighting style to utilize them. For example, use guard canceling on a JSA broadsword and you can have a PC or small monster in Rengeki in five quick hits. Same goes for Blades since they share the same Rengeki induction strength. There's also another advantage to the effects; they are part of the rare breed of offensive equipment effects that work at low levels, and the only ones that work with regular attacks at such a disadvantage. If QR and JSA worked on more than regular attacks, they would be the ultimate weapons, especially once Mad Rush enters the picture (the Steam Shield accessory's effect; it's pretty much Quick Rengeki), since no one can escape paralysis by the rings.
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Re: Qustion regarding Combo Assist

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MasterZED wrote:Quick Rengeki/Jet Speed Attack work by increasing the Rengeki induction power of regular attacks by about 25% (QR) and 50% (JSA). However, they don't affect anything else, so if you whore rapid attacks a lot, for example, you won't see much, if any benefit. That sounds like a major detriment until you realize just how damn powerful the effects actually are if you change your fighting style to utilize them. For example, use guard canceling on a JSA broadsword and you can have a PC or small monster in Rengeki in five quick hits. Same goes for Blades since they share the same Rengeki induction strength. There's also another advantage to the effects; they are part of the rare breed of offensive equipment effects that work at low levels, and the only ones that work with regular attacks at such a disadvantage. If QR and JSA worked on more than regular attacks, they would be the ultimate weapons, especially once Mad Rush enters the picture (the Steam Shield accessory's effect; it's pretty much Quick Rengeki), since no one can escape paralysis by the rings.
I see. So those are the statistics. That's how you were able to defeat Taihaku at such a low level in your recent speed run through Redemption. Using the # of hits to spawn a rengeki thanks to the aliment, you quickly filled the morale bar to activate an awakening while taking advantage of the paralysis effect of the rengeki to use the awakening, since Taihaku is the only force in G.U. to cancel them out while he's mobile. :0
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