Psychic abilities

[wave killer]

This topic is cover the idea of psychic abilities within the .hack universe. Feel free discuss your theories on how these elements could affect Za Warudo.

[AuraTwilight]

Well, imo, psychic phenomena factually exists in Za Warudo, you just can't convince me otherwise. The debatable aspect is the extent of this phenomena. As proof, I cite the basic mechanics of Za Warudo's functions in order to fuel Aura, the outright impossible (with .hack's technology levels) aspect of Za Warudo to support human and AI consciousness in what seems to be hundreds, if not thousands or more, at a time. There's also certain characters that seem to have a higher potency for these phenomena. Emma Weilant, Subaru, Atoli, Mai Minase, Tokio (ugh), and the real-world counterparts of the AIDA-PCs all seem to possess abnormal, or at the least unconventional, psychosomatic capability.

[iuliathe3rd]

I agree with AT, it's the extent of this psychic ability that I would debate.
Clearly there is some sort of abnormal phenomena occurring, thanks to The World or whatever else.

... and I am now interrupting my own train of thought because I just remembered something that was discussed in .hack//LIMINALITY that might be relevant to this discussion.

But anyway, carrying this over from another thread:

Which was pretty much a precognitive vision. I mean, what else would inspire the writing of the Epitaph of Twilight? She sees the events of IMOQ, misinterprets it or takes creative license, writes the Epitaph of Twilight, dies before completing it to allow for free will, and Harald makes a game out of it, basically making the Epitaph of Twilight a prophecy. IMO, Emma caused Harald's actions, which caused Emma's vision, which caused Harald's actions, etc. etc.

Now, I don't think I could be easily convinced that this is canon, but I'm curious to hear your reasoning in detail, AT.

[Gemcrim]

Well, imo, psychic phenomena factually exists in Za Warudo, you just can't convince me otherwise. The debatable aspect is the extent of this phenomena. As proof, I cite the basic mechanics of Za Warudo's functions in order to fuel Aura, the outright impossible (with .hack's technology levels) aspect of Za Warudo to support human and AI consciousness in what seems to be hundreds, if not thousands or more, at a time. There's also certain characters that seem to have a higher potency for these phenomena. Emma Weilant, Subaru, Atoli, Mai Minase, Tokio (ugh), and the real-world counterparts of the AIDA-PCs all seem to possess abnormal, or at the least unconventional, psychosomatic capability.

The only things I would question is Mai Minase and Atoli.

Mai, mainly what makes her special, yes I know she didn't go comatose, but under the theory that she wasn't very into the game when she and Sieg were attacked by Skeith and was focused more on real world issues I don't exactly see what makes her special.

Atoli, what reasoning do you have for her? The only thing that I see that makes her special is holding Innis, and I was under the impression that's why she could hear AIDA (and possibly make use of Innis in other ways, such as possibly making herself appear briefly before Haseo at the Holy Palace emperor party.) Aside from this I don't remember any particular psychic abilities.

I won't question Subaru due to her sensing Tsukasa's pain at some point.

And it's difficult to say for sure what Emma saw (I need to watch Liminality again, I think she had an episode while she was in Rehab), it's quite possible she saw the events of IMOQ, if not then she simply dreamt **** up regarding the Epitaph. Though the former sounds better, there's always the possibility her visions and thoughts when creating the epitaph were just that. While I'd like to believe she had some sort of power I can't say for sure, but am leaning toward believing this if only to give her vision more meaning.

(PS: Tokio can go **** himself)

[wave killer]

Atoli, what reasoning do you have for her? The only thing that I see that makes her special is holding Innis, and I was under the impression that's why she could hear AIDA (and possibly make use of Innis in other ways, such as possibly making herself appear briefly before Haseo at the Holy Palace emperor party.) Aside from this I don't remember any particular psychic abilities.

Maybe that's how Atoli or the other Epitaph Users are able to control their Avatars, by some form a psychic connection. Atoli always looked into The World as if it were real and then she was more "into" the game because of this. Haseo and the others always viewed The World as just a game, so because Atoli was so "into" The World she might be the only Epitaph User able to "hear" anything.

Right?

[AuraTwilight]

... and I am now interrupting my own train of thought because I just remembered something that was discussed in .hack//LIMINALITY that might be relevant to this discussion.

Mind sharing it with the class?

Now, I don't think I could be easily convinced that this is canon, but I'm curious to hear your reasoning in detail, AT.

She experienced a supernatural phenomena which inspired her to write the Epitaph, then it was used to create a game with supernatural powers. Assuming the phenomena was actually real, and not a delusion, what could inspire her to write the Epitaph? I don't think it'd be Finding Jesus, and we know psychic phenomena exist.

Mai, mainly what makes her special, yes I know she didn't go comatose, but under the theory that she wasn't very into the game when she and Sieg were attacked by Skeith and was focused more on real world issues I don't exactly see what makes her special.

It's not just that, really. She hears the Tone even when she's not playing the game, and while it always happens around Altimit-integrated technology, perhaps I should remind you of the time Mai was researching in a library, heard the tone, and looked up at the ceiling lights. I highly doubt they were equipped to emanate subliminal noises. Furthermore, when she does hear the tone, she can use it as a form of dowsing to detect the "direction" of sentient forces within the game, namely the Wave, which wouldn't be so interesting except that she's using a headset, so the sound should be coming from the same direction irregardless. The only other time this happened was with Tsukasa, who dowsed a direction in the Sky Castle and called that passage "the most evil" in feeling. I don't know of any naturalistic method in which a neutral tone can carry such powerful sensations of emotional alignment and will.

Atoli, what reasoning do you have for her? The only thing that I see that makes her special is holding Innis, and I was under the impression that's why she could hear AIDA (and possibly make use of Innis in other ways, such as possibly making herself appear briefly before Haseo at the Holy Palace emperor party.) Aside from this I don't remember any particular psychic abilities.

Indeed, there is all that, but my reasoning was mostly in that when her Epitaph was stolen, it started giving her Doll Syndrome, which didn't alleviate even when away from the game, and she responded in an email that when she was at the doctor's she "felt Innis' pain." Pi also stated that the Avatars are connected to the Epitaph Users beyond mere controllers. And since this is technically true of all players, the implication is that it's heart to heart, mind to mind.

Maybe that's how Atoli or the other Epitaph Users are able to control their Avatars, by some form a psychic connection. Atoli always looked into The World as if it were real and then she was more "into" the game because of this. Haseo and the others always viewed The World as just a game, so because Atoli was so "into" The World she might be the only Epitaph User able to "hear" anything.

Right?

Atoli, what reasoning do you have for her? The only thing that I see that makes her special is holding Innis, and I was under the impression that's why she could hear AIDA (and possibly make use of Innis in other ways, such as possibly making herself appear briefly before Haseo at the Holy Palace emperor party.) Aside from this I don't remember any particular psychic abilities.

Maybe that's how Atoli or the other Epitaph Users are able to control their Avatars, by some form a psychic connection. Atoli always looked into The World as if it were real and then she was more "into" the game because of this. Haseo and the others always viewed The World as just a game, so because Atoli was so "into" The World she might be the only Epitaph User able to "hear" anything.

Right?

Oh, this is definitely a factor. IMO, Atoli was the most intune with her Epitaph in most respects. She resembles Shino, her personality is a facade, she's easily tricked, she can understand the hearts of others, and she takes an illusion (Za Warudo) as reality.

[Keyaki]

Damn this is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it started giving her Doll Syndrome

Thats one part that i never understood, i thought that Doll Syndrome, was just some kind of syndrome caused by AIDA and it took control off the victim's minds and heart ( i gotta stop listening to Aihara)

[eaglesiegle]

I agree with everything but I wouldn't say that Mai had supernatural powers just because she heard a tone. That tone is a in c major and if your not used to listening to it then its harder to notice. She was a very accomplished violinist which would explain why she heard it because I can hear it in random places because i play violin too. Though I'm not saying you can't hear if you don't play an instrument because you can, I'm saying that its easier to notice if you do.

[Gemcrim]

I'd nearly forgotten about Mai hearing that tone, so she may have some ability though slight, or she did in fact hear the sound within the game and is shaken up in the real world randomly hearing that same sound and reacting, this is unlikely though since you'd almost never hear that sound loudly within the real world, so she may be hearing something from within the world or is somewhat paranoid and randomly hearing that sound whether in the real world or in her mind. I'd like to say it's the latter since I try to avoid psychic phenomena as an explanation, but it's entirely possible this isn't the case and she does have some connection to the game.

[iuliathe3rd]

Mind sharing it with the class?

Nope, don't mind at all. Just had to look it up first.

In Liminality episode 3, when Tokuoka meets up with Kyoko, they go sightseeing all around Hida. In one of the clues Bith sends them, he hints to them about Sadako from The Ring and her being a psychic. This sends the pair to a memorial for Prof. Fukurai Tomokichi, who was into clairvoyance and spirit photography research.
Kyoko then says at one point that when he was born here, "he saw the world in a different paradigm shift." She goes on to say, "Interesting... I never thought about it that way before." Apparently, she had some sort of revelation which she never fully explains to the audience or Tokuoka.

So it seems from the very beginning .hack was trying to relate the possibility of psychic abilities in the world (and The World).

[AuraTwilight]

Thats one part that i never understood, i thought that Doll Syndrome, was just some kind of syndrome caused by AIDA and it took control off the victim's minds and heart ( i gotta stop listening to Aihara)

Doll Syndrome is when a person begins losing life and vitality, becoming stiff, paralyzed, and inert, like dolls. This condition was slowly effecting Atoli, and since the doctors don't really know what causes it, they're not going to know the difference between AIDA and Avatar loss (though regardless, it was kind've AIDA's fault).

I agree with everything but I wouldn't say that Mai had supernatural powers just because she heard a tone. That tone is a in c major and if your not used to listening to it then its harder to notice. She was a very accomplished violinist which would explain why she heard it because I can hear it in random places because i play violin too. Though I'm not saying you can't hear if you don't play an instrument because you can, I'm saying that its easier to notice if you do.

Did you read my points? It's not her hearing the tone that's unusual, it's hearing it from devices that don't emit sound and using it as a dowsing tool to sense conscious beings over the internet.

I'd nearly forgotten about Mai hearing that tone, so she may have some ability though slight, or she did in fact hear the sound within the game and is shaken up in the real world randomly hearing that same sound and reacting, this is unlikely though since you'd almost never hear that sound loudly within the real world, so she may be hearing something from within the world or is somewhat paranoid and randomly hearing that sound whether in the real world or in her mind. I'd like to say it's the latter since I try to avoid psychic phenomena as an explanation, but it's entirely possible this isn't the case and she does have some connection to the game.

It's certainly a mixture of the two, like in the doctor's office, but it's reliable enough because when she hears that tone in the library, it was at the exact same time things were hitting **** in Yokohama before she even knew about it, which caused her to try and find out what was happening. In other words, hearing the sound when she shouldn't have allowed her to know Tokuoka was in danger.

Nope, don't mind at all. Just had to look it up first.

In Liminality episode 3, when Tokuoka meets up with Kyoko, they go sightseeing all around Hida. In one of the clues Bith sends them, he hints to them about Sadako from The Ring and her being a psychic. This sends the pair to a memorial for Prof. Fukurai Tomokichi, who was into clairvoyance and spirit photography research.
Kyoko then says at one point that when he was born here, "he saw the world in a different paradigm shift." She goes on to say, "Interesting... I never thought about it that way before." Apparently, she had some sort of revelation which she never fully explains to the audience or Tokuoka.

So it seems from the very beginning .hack was trying to relate the possibility of psychic abilities in the world (and The World).

Ah yes, I was thinking of another scene, and not grasping the point you were trying to draw from it. This is totally different, and pretty much confirms my main point.

In other words, I propose that Emma is the reincarnation of Sadako and her curse spread to the Epitaph, to Za Warudo, to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanashi_no_Game

[wave killer]

Wow, a lot of stuff is making sense now.

But I have one thing to ask; since Harold knew Emma, and he created The World to house "his and Emma's daughter", did he build it with the intention of using psychic elements to help create Aura? And if this is true, then does The World have psychic properties of it's own?

[|<!73]

Emma experienced clairvoyance or spirit photography, something that isn't seen normally with the eyes. It actually ranges from several things so its pretty out there what it was. Soon after that Emma moved onto Anthroposophy, studying the meaning of existence. Then from there Emma began writing the Epitaph of Twilight while Harald was working on his own project Fragment and used Anthroposophy as a base. The Infinite Diversity Theory in the games originated from the Epitaph of Twilight, the epic poem that The World is based on.

That last theory probably explains it, but how to go about proving it.

[AuraTwilight]

Wow, a lot of stuff is making sense now.

But I have one thing to ask; since Harold knew Emma, and he created The World to house "his and Emma's daughter", did he build it with the intention of using psychic elements to help create Aura? And if this is true, then does The World have psychic properties of it's own?

I would answer with a very definite yes, since Za Warudo is able to basically read minds of the players telepathically in order to collect data for Aura and the other Vagrant AI's. In a metaphorical sense, you could say Aura is the personification of all of the game's users. She is quite literally The Will Of The World.

Emma experienced clairvoyance or spirit photography, something that isn't seen normally with the eyes. It actually ranges from several things so its pretty out there what it was. Soon after her that Emma moved onto Anthroposophy, studying the meaning of existence. Then from there Emma began writing the Epitaph of Twilight while Harald was working on his own project Fragment and used Anthroposophy as a base. The Infinite Diversity Theory in the games originated from the Epitaph of Twilight, the epic poem that The World is based on.

That last theory probably explains it, but how to go about proving it.

Infinite Diversity Theory?

[TheSorrow]

I would answer with a very definite yes, since Za Warudo is able to basically read minds of the players telepathically in order to collect data for Aura and the other Vagrant AI's. In a metaphorical sense, you could say Aura is the personification of all of the game's users. She is quite literally The Will Of The World.

But then that means Harald also has some kind of power, since he was able to create a game with such psychic features? Because you need more than just IQ and insane programming knowledge to be able to program psychic elements and all that, and i don't think he "took" them from Emma as in uploading her mind into the game or something like that

[|<!73]

The Infinite Diversity Theory is an equation researched and analyzed by Harald that regulates the range of action for future incidents from the strength of an individuals imagination and phenomena surrounding that person within the possibilities of reality and the range of possibility in the future. Its hard to explain since everyone isn't looking at the topic with me. The theory is on the BBS from the original games, look for the topic "Equation for the Future". The fact that Harald may have researched and analyzed it is something I noticed recently when I was scrolling down more of the posts. That information is on the second to last post. I don't remember which game it was first posted on however the one I am looking at is in Quarantine after beating the game.

Still as said it probably explains it, but how to go about proving it.

[AuraTwilight]

But then that means Harald also has some kind of power, since he was able to create a game with such psychic features? Because you need more than just IQ and insane programming knowledge to be able to program psychic elements and all that, and i don't think he "took" them from Emma as in uploading her mind into the game or something like that

He apparently just programmed it, based on Anthroposophical concepts. The Black Box basically functions as a giant brain, which makes sense since it requires an AI core to run it properly. By creating a digital brain capable of consciousness, doesn't that allow for generating psychic powers?

The Infinite Diversity Theory is an equation researched and analyzed by Harald that regulates the range of action for future incidents from the strength of an individuals imagination and phenomena surrounding that person within the possibilities of reality and the range of possibility in the future. Its hard to explain since everyone isn't looking at the topic with me. The theory is on the BBS from the original games, look for the topic "Equation for the Future". The fact that Harald may have researched and analyzed it is something I noticed recently when I was scrolling down more of the posts. That information is on the second to last post. I don't remember which game it was first posted on however the one I am looking at is in Quarantine after beating the game.

Still as said it probably explains it, but how to go about proving it.

Oh, yiss, I remember that now. I know what you mean, but such a thing would still require psychic ability, otherwise Za Warudo's servers need to be quantum supercomputers like that thing in Code Lyoko.

[Keyaki]

Doll Syndrome is when a person begins losing life and vitality, becoming stiff, paralyzed, and inert, like dolls. This condition was slowly effecting Atoli, and since the doctors don't really know what causes it, they're not going to know the difference between AIDA and Avatar loss (though regardless, it was kind've AIDA's fault).

Yea i remember now, i think Pi said in Reminisce that Epitaph-Users' PC data is most their Avatars and when the Avatar is absent from the PC, it starts to break down, and since during the that time everyone logged at the time of AIDA Server Incident, was sort-of actually "in the game" i think Pi was leading to, if they didn't get Innis in time, she would die.

The Black Box

what was the Black Box anyway? I never fully understood

quantum supercomputers like that thing in Code Lyoko.

Xana

In Liminality episode 3, when Tokuoka meets up with Kyoko, they go sightseeing all around Hida. In one of the clues Bith sends them, he hints to them about Sadako from The Ring and her being a psychic. This sends the pair to a memorial for Prof. Fukurai Tomokichi, who was into clairvoyance and spirit photography research.
Kyoko then says at one point that when he was born here, "he saw the world in a different paradigm shift." She goes on to say, "Interesting... I never thought about it that way before." Apparently, she had some sort of revelation which she never fully explains to the audience or Tokuoka.

So it seems from the very beginning .hack was trying to relate the possibility of psychic abilities in the world (and The World).

I gotta watch the OVAs again

[AuraTwilight]

Yea i remember now, i think Pi said in Reminisce that Epitaph-Users' PC data is most their Avatars and when the Avatar is absent from the PC, it starts to break down, and since during the that time everyone logged at the time of AIDA Server Incident, was sort-of actually "in the game" i think Pi was leading to, if they didn't get Innis in time, she would die.

She wouldn't die, she would go comatose, her PC would be destroyed, and her consciousness would probably be lost.

what was the Black Box anyway? I never fully understood

A Black Box is a metaphor for any system where we can see the input and output, but not the processes inside. For example, the human body was a Black Box in the middle ages, since they had no clue how it worked. In the context of .hack, it's the special programming underneath the game CC Corp created; The programs that feed Aura, Cubia, the Lost Grounds, etcetera etcetera.

Xana

No, XANA was the AI. I mean the actual supercomputer, which was nameless.

[Keyaki]

In the context of .hack, it's the special programming underneath the game CC Corp created; The programs that feed Aura, Cubia, the Lost Grounds, etcetera etcetera.

and that which was created by Harald and probably the origin of MOST of the AIs, like maybe the ones in the Net Slums, and Lycoris and the like